The JYLP Episode 068 with Abrielle Dunn - The Sense Making-Sickness Series - Wait Why Are We LARPing

[00:00:00] Intro: Hello all welcome to the Junkyard Love Podcast It's me your host Jacob Rhines i'm happy you are here this is episode number two in The Sense Making Sickness series my goal with this series Was essentially to solve the problem or Try to shine a light on the problem or put a magnifying glass or even just one point Towards solving or figuring out or Talking about the things that are happening in the world what i mean by that is just kind of the overall madness you know the inability to make sense the inability to have the correct conversations um are descends into weird chaos Our group thinking our tribalism our Echo chambers our interaction and intertwining with Social media and our social media avatars and news media and what news media is and just this whole kind of conundrum that i think over the last few years especially and certainly with the uh the COVID-19 Situation and the lockdowns and all that really shines a light on the fact that There is a something going on In the world at this moment it's um Or in our world even in our reality

[00:01:18] Jacob: In the life that we live as americans or Just people in the western side of the world um though the pandemic effects Worldwide of course i think that we're Getting to an influx point Of kind of a The next stage of what we need to be doing of how we're going to be organizing um as a culture In forming new unions or Fixing what a union means or Um you know But the first episode I had just pages and pages of notes i Had been working for a couple months on this basically compiling any random thoughts or i'm listening to podcast interviews or i'm listening to lectures or i'm reading books and things that things that would stand out to me i would write down i would jot down the notes and then i would basically look at the pages of notes and then try to solve or fit together

[00:02:23] Jacob: You know okay what does this all mean what is how does this intertwine together what's going on here and how could i form it into words that somehow make sense and make it to where we can change our actions as individuals to be moving towards the path of this Thing we have here you know this civilization continuing the civilization prospering and people um Feeling good and happy and wholesome and fulfilled in their lives um episode two You know i didn't even plan for this episode to be part of the Sense Making Sickness series it's things that uh my friend Abrielle and i talk about regardless we kind of send long texts back and forth to each other or we'll watch our own behaviors or we'll observe how weird we're being on social media or our social media addictions or The way that we group think the way that we catch our own biases and And things of that matter and this Conversation just kind of opened up right away into some concepts that i have been

[00:03:30] Jacob: Writing about and trying to think about and trying to figure out ways to present you know through the podcast or through my youtube channel or any of these Things that facilitate my voice out to the world just something how can i help us wrap Our heads around this bigger conversation what is this bigger conversation why are we not getting along so well why are we um arguing why are we making so many Bad other movements why are we um You know struggling to find Homeostasis again it just feels like There's so much division there's so much inability to connect and you know i think a lot of it we Touch on in this episode a lot of it we kind of point out you know the effects of technology and the effects of um this second overlay of reality that we've been living um towards the end i talk about uh eric Some of Eric Weinstein's concepts around The WWE reality that we've been living in the k-fabe um amp guard LARPing version of Working a community And a governmental system where we're Kind of doing the illusioned version of how to operate these

[00:04:51] Jacob: These structures rather than actually doing them so there is something interesting going on um i will end this intro here we'll get going this is the sense making series Sense Making Sickness series And i don't claim to be any sort of professional abrial doesn't claim to be any sort of you know harvard law degree person she has her own expertise and her own levels of intelligence which definitely greatly adds to this but neither of us are um you know i have no phds i am i am a dj And i do yoga you know i'm not claiming To be absolute or entirely correct um i'm not Claiming that i know things that other people don't i'm not trying to downplay other people's ideas i'm just trying to really stumble through what i feel may be going on what i what i'm Seeing in my own life and what seems to make sense to me you know as a creative artistic thinker these things are what enthrall me i am fascinated by the

[00:05:55] Jacob: The concept of being able to see things before they happen or um view things from an outside perspective and hopefully help facilitate or usher um you know Critical thought really Um towards the importance of these Things so again i'm i have no grandiose Ideas that i am some sort of legend who solved all the world's problems i don't even think we really even solved any problems here i think we just kind of propose a couple perspectives that are worth contemplating that i think that we all as participants In this human experience should be contemplating so i mean no offense to anybody if there's anybody any of these groups that you identify with in this podcast that are mentioned and used as examples If you know me or you're familiar with my work i think i hope it's clear at this point that i have no ill intent i just simply want to help so that's what this is hopefully this helps hopefully this helps you spark some ideas of your own Hopefully this helps you

[00:06:58] Jacob: Even if you completely disagree with everything that i said like cool make a video about it and put it out to the world and You know we can all make sense of the world a little bit better and now we're one step closer to understanding what's really going on here so Without further ado this is the Sense Making Sickness series Part two with Abrielle Dunn Um my note is a majority of the human

[00:07:24] Abrielle: Experience is Relaying and relating to people and i Don't feel like we're doing that um and that just comes from I was thinking about conversations with you and conversations i have with Other people and then conversations i hear about that other people are having and when i talk to you when i talk to a Couple other people in my life you know I have a close circle and i'm really particular about who i talk to and what i talk to people about and so i like conversations That we're conveying emotion And relating to each other and like when you and i talk it's like how are you feeling and how Are you getting through this thing and how are you experiencing this even when we're talking about podcasts or work or things like that it's the feeling behind it and how we're getting through it's not just like a surface level this thing happened right and i'm Noticing that when a lot of the differences that are happening between people politically and just every like whenever you it seems Like whenever you get into a conversation with someone there's an argument or friction or something

[00:08:34] Abrielle: Like that and we all can relate to each other On a human level and i feel like we're

[00:08:42] Jacob: Forgetting that and so a lot of the conversation is like what's going on in your life how i'm working and it's like but how do you really feel and how do you feel about those things and i just feel like there's that there's not that level of relating to people and i as humans you know a lot of our Um experience is storytelling that's That's how a lot of human history has happened just a lot of storytelling and relaying Stories to people and relating Like a lot of how we build ourselves Is comparison and Trying other people's personalities on and seeing what we like seeing what we don't like and so i think a lot a lot of that growth that i experience in myself comes from Relating to other people you were working doing this how did that make you feel how did like you were very stressed did it how did it affect you how did you deal with that stress that kind of stuff Rather than i have a job and

[00:09:48] Jacob: You know someone might say either i like it or i don't and that's kind of what you get from it or you know i voted for this person they don't even say i like them i don't it's just like you just get friction you don't really get any um Feeling or human emotion behind that stuff and so i always just think about What why aren't we having the conversations where we're exploring ourselves as people rather Than you know just surface level don't have anything to talk about yeah i think this that's a really dope i I like that i'm glad that you wrote that down because i is when we're talking You know when humans are interacting we're trying to communicate something much deeper than the words we're trying to we're trying to facilitate with our Mouth movements um the building of Meaning or epiphany within the other person you're trying to strike within them as

[00:10:48] Jacob: You're talking here's what i mean here's what i here's what i'm feeling inside but then there's it there but that's not with everybody like that's how that's kind of how it feels how it should feel how the authentic conversation should feel but then there's this other version of conversation that is um it's like the illusion of having The correct conversation it's like this here's Here's what you do when you say someone and i'm going to be good at that or here's what you do when you talk to someone you Make sure they know what group you're in really quick so they know that you're one of the good guys right like it's like instead of actually just opening our chests up and trying to find way in allowing the first Instance of talking to someone or meeting someone to be like fully trusted Like i trust you like i'm giving you the benefit of doubt before i ever know you it's almost like we walk up to each other um With

[00:11:53] Jacob: With our guard up in a sense like we don't like we have i mean i don't want to generalize it the word ego is just so Beat to a pulp it's almost confusing at this point but there is something like we approach as A character or a character of our of our Own self like we are meeting people and talking via our avatars rather than our actual lived inner experience does that correlate all to what you're saying it definitely does and i think a huge part of bonding with a person and actually finding a connection with a person is letting that down And expressing how you because you know when you're talking to someone one of the first times if it's the first conversation one of the first times you genuinely feel like oh i can connect with this person is when you both agree on something or

[00:12:45] Jacob: You know i'm working i'm really stressed it's really hard right now and the person you're talking to says oh man i'm really stressed too i relate to that i haven't even done for example i haven't even done my laundry and then i hear other people i haven't done my laundry either and then we're like oh girl i see you yep i did it yeah we Yeah we connect and it's just because it's that human emotion that you can connect with you understand you relate to that person and so when we're talking About things number one that we don't understand like politics and stuff i'm not gonna get into a political economic debate or anything like that because i just don't i can pay attention but you know i don't understand the inner workings of anything that's going on so you know when you say this person's Made this choice in office i'm just like You know i don't really until Yeah i mean i try to care but it's Just like it's just it's not my job and it's not something i'm involved in it's not one of the things that i choose to

[00:13:45] Jacob: Focus on i'm not researching it every day and so i just don't really relate you know when someone if there is someone who is really into politics this person is doing this thing did you see did you see this person oh it's gonna affect this and all this kind of stuff and just no i don't and i don't Yeah okay yeah i sorry did i get you Off keep going no go ahead um yeah i'm so what popped in my head Actually i just very recently i think it was literally last night i had an interaction with someone who um i get along with it totally fine um We're not very similar at all but we get Along totally fine and um just casually yesterday i asked um

[00:14:24] Abrielle: Oh hey you're gonna watch the super bowl on sunday you've got any super bowl plans you know just kind of the small talk thing and uh his response was nah i'm gonna take the Knee on that one I've been boycotting that thing for years and he kind of goes off on a little a little spiel and It's interesting because i instantly saw Oh for me to have like if i want to have An actual conversation with him like a an open like let's express like how i Actually feel let's be authentic to myself let's stand up for things that i believe in let's explain to this person things that i know that he may not know um so then we can almost problem solve we can connect we can find ways to connect because i didn't agree instantly with his comments about um you know you know people taking the knee or whatever because it's like within what he said was this whole like back door like this whole explosion

[00:15:21] Abrielle: Waiting to happen and that's kind of like how a lot of our conversations have gotten right especially when it's when it's politics or anything that's that they give into that political lens um or you know the news media is pointing cameras out and saying this is important look at this is what everybody should argue about and fight about so me i basically chose to

[00:15:40] Abrielle: Like okay you know basically say very little like oh okay yeah that's pretty crazy you know i don't know just basically not interact with him fully because i started with friendly right i started with like hey you got any plans you know like you gonna are you gonna hang out with your wife and you know have some nachos and watch super bowl like cool i hope you have a good weekend whatever but we throw up these like There's a lot of like sentences that are said nowadays that indicate hey i'm team wilkistan i'm team Magastan i'm team anti-knee i'm team knee like what all These different things that we're going through as a culture that are very shining light on they become too much they become these like ticking time bombs of conversation and so we're self editing ourselves where you

[00:16:26] Jacob: Know if i have if i have 65 interactions like that where i'm just trying to have this small talk i'm just saying hey i hope you have a good weekend like oh what are you up to oh you're gonna go kayaking that sounds awesome have a good time like if i get shut down too many times By that by people going like i ain't going kayaking like i don't support the kayaks because they're sold what i don't know whatever like So i get okay so trying to wind it Back in but so has have conversations have Authentic conversations become so complicated because we are coming from different Levels of not only meaning within but um

[00:17:06] Jacob: Just information like the amount of like i'm not trying to invalidate what he was saying like he might have seriously listened to 12 hours a day for the last six years of information that supports his cause and why it's correct and why it's very wrong to him and i don't know i haven't listened to the same things as him so we're all very we're educated in different ways of our own misinformations that's been given to us so um I think that um i think you're right And that we come to all situations sort Of with not necessarily a mask just with a little bit of hesitation not really sure how much i should relate to you where you stand are you the type of person who when i say i like blue you're going to just throw up in arms that red is the right color or something like that um or will you be okay that like there's A lot of colors on the spectrum i've chosen blue it's okay or do we not have to talk

[00:18:00] Jacob: About how do we feel about the color that kind of thing and it's a very that's a very uh vague example but um Yeah i feel like it's also i don't know I'm very vocal about how much i Am aware of myself and i'm very Um i say i'm very emotionally intelligent but i think what i am is just very conscious of myself and I don't want to say i'm self-conscious but i'm conscious of myself and i under i think about the way i say Things the words i say um and it's just when you Talk to somebody i don't know how conscious of yourself you are and so can i talk to you about The way i'm feeling about what's going On can i talk to you about you know like Just bringing it back to politics the only politician i really pay attention to is tulsi gabbard because i love her And yeah one of the things that i really like about her is that she breaks it down from you know

[00:19:07] Jacob: There are all these policies and topics to talk about but like do you love your family do you want the best for your family do you when you go to school do you want a good education when you know get sick do you want To be able to get treatment if your mother gets sick and she's gonna die do you want her to be able to get treatment it's just like those kinds of things and she's like we need to develop this baseline as humans and then figure out how we can go forward and it takes compromise and it takes this and that but that's where i feel like you know people get up in arms this thing just happened and you know this person released i don't Know it's hard for me to even like i'll just say something and i know nothing about it so but just like this person released this tax plan and it's gonna make this and this happen and Oh my god it's an outrage and these things like that and i'm just like i

[00:19:59] Jacob: Number one i don't even know what that means number two i haven't researched it enough to even know if what you're saying is true so i don't know if i should agree with you not agree with you listen to you trust what you're saying where did you get your information that's number two and number three like what does it mean for people like how did it how's it Affecting me is it something that i want is it one of the baseline foundational things that i want is it something that's going around something to be like sneaky and you know i just don't i don't understand these things enough and i feel like a lot of these conversations are happening that we just don't understand and people get really defensive and they don't take the time to understand and we're not relating to people When we have these conversations that we have all this friction and we bump heads i'm trying to take a step back and be like why do you feel this way that you feel Why is this person so up in arms about something i don't

[00:20:59] Jacob: Even think they understand fully definitely i don't understand it fully if i don't understand it fully i can't imagine how much this person understands it and just like What is going to make you feel So hard-headed or stubborn about feeling This way like why are you so passionate about this thing where does it come from i want to understand those things and i feel like that's definitely not the conversation we're having people are just so upset about this is Happening on this side this is happening on this side whatever's going on i've honestly stopped paying attention because it's just so two-sided and i Want to have the conversations where we connect with each other as people and i'm having a lot more of those conversations rather than like one side's other side surface I just yeah totally wow that really Opens it up into some good thinking because i we're

[00:22:00] Jacob: You know i feel like we can kind of sense you know when you when you interact with someone who is very caught up in the news cycle media like who has been watching these things every day like they you know they're in facebook groups about it they're you know and i'm you know left right this thing this popular thing Like you're attacking the blm you're attacking the pedophile ring you're attacking the you know the antifa like all these different aspects you know that our news media and our um our you know technological connected Culture here gives us to argue about or talk about or say hey here's this identity do you belong or do not belong and we're like oh i belong to that one that's mine i want to make sure everybody that i interact with knows that um we're almost I really keep i keep framing this as We're talking about this i keep framing this around um just like our initial walk up to

[00:22:54] Jacob: Someone like you're and like when you first talk to someone like because sometimes i feel like nowadays and i don't remember this from before maybe i was just vastly unaware of it there's resentment like people like we carry Auras of resentment towards people who are not in the room and we accidentally project it on to the person in front of us and it's so it is so When someone goes to meet you if they're say a far-right person like um you know that they Far right and let's say let's say they love donald trump they're huge trump fans um and they approach you And you know you're wearing i don't know An andrew yang shirt or you're wearing even like a rainbow shirt and they indicate like oh this is a left person like they're instantly coming at you from their avatar of here's what i'm the person on the right i'm talking this person on the left so it's almost just like so rather than Rather than hey how are you like what's real about you how has your human experience been so far you know like we come from this place

[00:24:02] Jacob: Of thinking we know but we have to approach each other as if we Don't know **** because that's the truth we don't know **** you don't know **** about the person across from you so true i always approach i've I've recently not so recently but In the past a handful of years of my Life i have become so i went through a whole Transition in my life of being when i was younger i was very annoying And i was very self-conscious about being very annoying and i'm sure people today would argue I'm still annoying but i'm okay with it but when i was younger i was told i was Annoying so often that i just shut down and stopped talking i was like i'm not gonna be annoying i'm Not gonna be myself i'm just gonna be whatever people think i should be and i'll just be quiet and not be told I'm annoying and that just Formed my personality in that i Wanted to be whatever anyone wanted me to be whereas recently like i said last Handful of years probably four or six years i'm like realizing

[00:25:17] Jacob: That i need to come into every situation Exactly as i am because peop The only people i want around me are those who love me for exactly as i am And i don't want to put on any type of facade i don't want to fit into a category i don't want to i don't want to be who you want me to be i want you to like me for who i am or we Just won't connect and that's okay but there was someone who brought it to My attention or you know like i just heard it at the right time in my life they said don't hide from me what You don't want me to see let me see it and let me make my own judgment and i was like that's so true and it was Hard to hear but just that statement Like launched me into just being a hundred percent myself i'm transparent i'm authentic when i The job we both have when i interviewed for it i normally would be nervous Because i wanted to be exactly who they wanted me to be but i went into that interview very calm

[00:26:27] Jacob: And very like relaxed this is who i am You know i did my research i know about the company here's how i think i can be valuable here's what i know about you here's what i'm passionate about and i just went in there like this is me if you want me then we're going to be good if you don't want me then this isn't an opportunity i want Yeah i oh did you freeze Well and a lot of the A lot of that the projecting i'm really Working on um but when we come into a conversation With another person and we're projecting It just changes the entire experience And so i think understanding ourselves relating to Other people more when we understand other people we become able more able to understand ourselves and so when we relate to other people When we come into the conversation open and without those boundaries and Know what we can be projecting on to

[00:27:32] Jacob: Them and realizing it hopefully in the moment but you know sometimes we have to analyze those things afterwards i just think a lot of i think you're right a lot of people especially with politics and just i Don't even know if people can project with politics like how do you i don't know maybe you're i think i've noticed about you what oh yeah basically saying that Or feeling that assuming that they know what they need to know about the other person and assuming they know what they need to Know about themselves even yeah or experiencing um Feeling that you feel a certain way And i know you feel the same way but Really you have no idea that other person you know like a lot of the work that i do is very stressful People think that i should be very stressed but i have learned to manage my stress i don't feel a lot of this stress And so you can't put stress on to me you can't project that onto me you can't say i'm feeling stress or my job is really hard because i don't feel that way and i feel

[00:28:44] Jacob: Like that's a very small and very specific example but When we put each other into these boxes There's no way to relate to somebody if You're already putting them in a box stereotyping categorizing pigeonholing like you said Being a left person seeing a right Person you've put each other in these boxes and it's once you've put the box I want to say once you put the wall up It's so much harder to break it down than if you come into the conversation without the wall in the first place Do you think that we have a lot of people approaching Approaching each other from behind their Own walls without realizing it like i think a lot of this is past our awareness i think a lot of i mean i feel like already what we've been talking about is um i started this

[00:29:30] Jacob: I started this Sense Making Sickness series with my friend spencer and we kind of basically wanted to solve what the **** is going on like why is everyone losing their mind why are we acting insane and why are we acting in childish and what the hell is going on so uh like i recorded that episode it's Been a couple months now and spencer and i still like we text back and forth every few days trying to solve these like kind of concepts or trying to investigate what's going on i consume a ton of content i do a lot of writing i haven't even gotten to where i feel comfortable making the second part and i wanted to make it like a five part series because it's so complex and confusing to me but i think we're kind of like pointing right at this area is there is something going on Now more than ever like over the course of the last few years let's say 10 years i guess our communication our connection Is weird like it's

[00:30:38] Jacob: It's obviously it's advancing because i mean like look what we're doing right now like we're talking in real time you're all the way across the same country like yeah like to where that's three hours difference in time but we're still talking at the same you know time here it's so cool but i think that it's Happened so fast that we're almost just like as Human species we're confused and we don't know that we're confused or something um i guess There are certain types i mean like you and i like we enjoy philosophical thought like we enjoy um Like complex layers of thinking to Solve you know the uh to solve some sort of problem that's posed but i think a lot of people Aren't like that at all and they never stop and think i mean awareness itself uh this book anthony Demaio awareness like i read that and um

[00:31:35] Abrielle: I mean i was kind of into a lot of that stuff at that point but he basically points out he basically talks you through like who is the one like what's the point of you talking right now like where is the person where's your mind where does it sit is it inside your brain are you a little man inside your head like what's have you ever thought about these things before are you aware that like how do you move your right arm just all these like kind of surface level things but we see past the surface level because we meet every we approach situations With assumptions which is a good thing and a bad thing um but There seems to be How do i round this out i think if we

[00:32:16] Abrielle: Continue to do things the way in which we have been doing them over the course of the last four years like whether we're talking about like the crazy arguing with social media and politics and news and all that i think that's like a good um like that's a good thing to point the camera at but that's just like a symptom of our underlying underneath here There's this weird communication barrier thing where We don't understand what meaning is we don't understand what feelings are we don't understand what the human condition really is and we can't certainly we don't know how to relate it to the **** gdp you know like yeah like the gdp Doing well what does that have to do with like uh people i went to school with like committing suicide and like wanting to take their own life in being like just not doing mentally well and not being able to stay on their feet like these things are very well connected but The conversation gets like why is it

[00:33:14] Abrielle: Taboo it's so strange that it's taboo that it's weird that it's uncomfortable to talk about you know actual human feelings actual things that are happening um even you know it's kind of what our culture does with death we just kind of avoid talking about it and if anybody gets anywhere near it we're like please don't do it please save them anything to save them we don't talk about the value of life the lived experience like how are we making every moment more fulfilling rather than just trying to extend the meter of the length you're alive It's i don't know uh How do like do you see

[00:33:54] Jacob: Does it feel i guess gabriel does it feel like this to you does it feel like over the last you know as you've like grown and changed yourself and just gotten older and just you know learned more too does it feel like that to you does it feel like we have a weird communication misinformation barrier so i want to say i'm glad you said that it feels like it's taboo for us to talk about our human emotion because one of the things that really bugged me About business and corporations and things Like that is that a lot of the old thinking was That people are pieces of a machine And you replace the parts of the machine that aren't working as fast and as well as you want them to and this person or this part of the machine You know needs to go faster let's get rid of what's there and get something that's cheaper and quicker and does the job better or just more efficiently rather than seeing Them as people and i know that there's a whole movement

[00:34:56] Jacob: Of i think they're called b corporations where they just care more about the people that work for them and Treating their people correctly and i haven't looked into them in a long time but it was a few years ago that i learned about them and it was just about treating the People you work with and the people who work for you as actual humans and i'm glad you said that it's it Feels like it's taboo to experience human emotion because a lot Of the time i think the experience is that you go into a job and you're an Employee and you just work and Then you go home and the job just Doesn't experience you after you go home and if you miss a day it's like what the

[00:35:44] Jacob: Hell do you want to be fired like you're not here working or i'm late why are you late like you should be here on time there's nothing else in your life that should you know like why isn't the machine working what's wrong with this part of the machine you need to do better you know and it's like you could have a whole family emergency i just that old way of thinking I think there wasn't enough understanding there wasn't enough compassion there wasn't enough empathy And that's the way i am is i always try To have the human emotion side of it Whenever i work with people i see you as a human and if you're late on a project like What's going on and you know people don't deliver on deadlines i have a family emergency i can't just be like okay deal with your family emergency you had a deadline like i'm sick i can't work

[00:36:35] Jacob: I and you know like need to push the deadline like i understand you're laying in bed like with a flu you're not going to be able to even if it's you know all this working from home stuff it's hard when you're feeling dead coughing just want to go to sleep have a headache and your eyes closed like wanting to get on your computer i I just wish there were more Of that everywhere just more of Understanding people more understanding Of like you woke up today were you hungry could that have affected the way you interacted with people until You ate breakfast you know like did you snap at someone and you didn't have enough water like what could be humanly going on with You that made you react in this way so A lot of these people who are very you Know um all i can say is like friction People that have a lot of friction or come into conversations very um closed-minded like What's how's your diet like do you Exercise like how often do you think about your actions do are you conscious of what the way you're saying what

[00:37:53] Jacob: You're saying can affect the other person do you think about it and if you're not the type of person who thinks about those types of things What kind of person am i speaking to you know like what are you aware of in your own world and how can i change my how can i like rotate my lens About you as a person in our conversation to see like where you're coming from yeah i Really like where you're taking this because i feel like the whole time i've been Thinking gosh why doesn't this person practice their awareness like why don't they see that they're feeling these emotions rather than where you just took it and i think that's important is how could i better understand where he actually is like i guess trying to understand where he is so i can try to get him to think more like me isn't really like super helpful and that's another way to get this other person who is you know someone who's um just stuck to that friction like you said That's a good way to get them to shut down i mean nobody wants to

[00:38:55] Jacob: Like if i approach someone and they're like you're coming at me all wrong you need to restart i'd be like what you know what So how do we so okay Instead of allowing me to be thinking Gosh see that's the conundrum though is because so many so many times i'll think about this stuff and i'm like dude these **** they just need awareness they need awareness of their own because me if i'm having a conversation Or um you know even if i'm just like you Know tyler and i are having a beer after a Show and we're both you know just getting kind of fired up i'll notice like if i'm okay i'll apologize even oh

[00:39:38] Abrielle: Geez sorry hey i was getting fired up i'm really passionate about that subject you know i'll notice the state that i'm in as i'm in it and if it's going too far if it's tipping the canoe a little too far if we get a little bit of water in the boat i'm going to be like okay but you know this is i love you i appreciate your conversation brother like thank you for listening to me i don't mean any harm let's let off the throttle a little bit so now you can say what you need to say and that's how a conversation works conversations can be passionate conversations can be heated conversations can be um you know fueled by Real inner emotions but they can't have Like a whole fog a whole like

[00:40:16] Jacob: Like protect protective screen over them to where you don't even get to those underlying emotions where it's just i don't know what you're talking about absolutely i definitely feel that i was gonna say that the conversations definitely depend on those emotions but we're not even getting there because we're so in this i like what you said fog or um like those uh those walls that fog up You know we're behind like plexiglas that just fogged and you know like we can see the other person like we can see that they're there but we don't like understand that they're a person like us like we can just kind of see their form and it's like oh that's definitely a person but we don't under we can't understand them we can't connect with them because there's just like this foggy glass between us and I don't the connection comes from Those emotions and that passion that you're talking about and i don't know there are just some people who I don't know if they're not aware or If they just don't think about things

[00:41:22] Jacob: Or they're just their mind is just closed or they haven't i think i was i was exploring something recently and i don't remember specifically what it was but i wanted to i kind of wanted to test it on my family to see what they thought about it and i so my thinking was Like something i don't even remember it But it was something to the effect of like there can be multiple ways to think about this and i realize like there can be multiple ways to view this or thinking think about this or multiple outcomes from this thing and i went to my family And they actually said whatever i was thinking of in the topic i was talking about they were just like straight minded

[00:42:06] Abrielle: There's only this way no one can be any different and i was like When you say that are you sure like what If someone else you know thinks a little bit differently maybe they don't agree that the answer is no maybe they think the answer can be yes sometimes and they were all just like No and it just It go so what so what that exact Moment where they're just like no what are you talking like where they reject To me to me that's a truth like what you point out like ah don't forget about other existing perspectives because there's almost eight billion people in the world and they say no like what is

[00:42:47] Abrielle: That moment like what's happening within them and is that is that wrong or are is there a different way we can approach it or do they feel maybe they feel as if they're being attacked as if we're saying you're wrong and we just don't like being wrong so much that we're like i'm gonna back i'm gonna double down on my **** is that yeah i don't i don't know and it's it was it kind of it was funny to me number one Because it was something i had already been like building and thinking about and they just brought it up without even me initiating something but it just Showed me that people who i relate to And understand and really like they're literally my family like my parents and my brother my relatives we're blood related Some of the most intelligent people i know are not thinking about this i don't even Remember what it was but they aren't even considering that other people can think other things or feel differently about this topic and they were just like no

[00:43:50] Abrielle: And i brought up all the things i had been thinking about you know what if someone has this experience maybe they could say yes what if this person you know maybe they would feel yes or yes sometimes or yes you know at Some point or in some capacity and they were just like that's dumb no and i don't even know if it was I don't even know if it was something defensive that they would you know try and they feel in themselves and would try to defend or get offended by but it just seemed like They hadn't considered there could be a yes

[00:44:26] Jacob: Okay so sometimes this level of conversation is intimidating And taxing on people so like sure So maybe kind of what's going on Is you are approaching as just an inquisitive philosophical thought thinker a thought figure and in And that's just how you enjoy interacting um but if other people don't it

[00:44:55] Abrielle: Almost feels like a challenge like so you're just saying like wait don't you want to explore like let's see if we can get closer to truth together you know like what because i mean if you're anything like me it's basically like it when someone else opens up and they allow me to like you know climb inside their brain for a second and they climb inside mine and we're trying to solve this thing because i for me i'm thinking in real time i'm thinking out loud i'm letting it like fall out because i think that's so fun i think that's like the one of the more beautiful things of life we don't know what we're going to think next we don't know what we're thinking about we don't know what we're going to say next we i think it's so fun to

[00:45:30] Abrielle: Recognize like right now it's like you know you know it's not right on the surface but deep down layers down there's this thing where abrial you and i both we've been here for less than 30 years of peace and we don't really know the truth about the universe we're both trying to figure it out so like why don't we try to figure it out together like oh maybe it means this maybe it means this so when but you can't just approach Everybody with that level of inquisitory nature Because i guess i guess i'll ask You what happens there when you do come at someone who's not trying to inquire on their belief systems at all times What happens within them when you come At them with this hey let's challenge a belief system i can tell you from personal experience they just get annoyed like i'm asking um

[00:46:18] Jacob: Like why would you think about it like what does it matter like why does it matter what you Said it's in the past like why would you analyze it or why would you why would you be thinking about all these philosophical things like does it Does it affect you does it matter is it gonna change your experience they don't even get that far they're just like why am i gonna spend my time thinking like that and i don't

[00:46:43] Abrielle: It's a hard it's a hard you know thing to explain like i don't know don't you want to see where your mind goes with these things and it's i think that's just a difference in personality it's a difference in culture it's a difference in you know it's just a difference in people some people want to have these deep philosophical conversations and we can go for hours about it and then some people just think it's a waste of time why would you go i got a lot of stuff to do like why would i sit here and think about these things right yeah because okay so

[00:47:13] Jacob: Have you ever had Have you ever had um and feel free to say no if you don't want to talk about on a podcast Have you ever had like any um uh not necessarily like psychedelic experiences but any like mind altering where your consciousness is different like even through like extensive breath work or lots of yoga where you can kind of get into like let's just say altered states of consciousness um i mean like you've been drunk before you know yeah i wouldn't say i've been in anything like drastically different Um but i've been in situations that have Completely changed the way i feel about

[00:47:49] Abrielle: Things and the way i act and things like that but okay I've been pretty sober Yeah that's that's pretty similar i mean because i've gotten to different you know levels of mind where My i'll have it's almost it's not so Much about the experience like i'll have an experience you know so if this is not what i'm talking about but if someone has say they take psychedelics and they have a mystical experience then their life has changed forever but the thing that happens is their perception of who they are what they're doing what they should do with their life what it means to be alive what's the meaning of light like all these things can be shifted and that changes your perception which in turn changes

[00:48:29] Jacob: Um your the interactions that you have and how you have them after so i've had You know just within the last you know maybe three years or so i've had a few experiences like this like where and i've talked about this which is totally weird but you know i had a lot of trauma healing And um you know a lot of just doing a lot of yoga and breath work and cannabis and all this stuff um in it changed my perception of

[00:48:56] Abrielle: What i thought and then also a lot of just philosophy like you can listen to a lot of philosophers you know you take a few days and listen to the same philosophy like if you listen to just nothing but terrence mckenna or alan watts or ramadas or something for a few days and like have no interaction with people your perception about the world around you will certainly change and that's that fascinates me as someone who is very interested in philosophy and psychology i like oh my god it fills me up i love To do it seriously excites me But those changes in perception I think to other people when they're approached or when people see them coming they're almost so scary because a lot of people in our culture and this is not a bad thing i'm just saying this is like a product of our you know late stage capitalism culture we have here we're trying to constantly define Ourselves so we can stick to that identity and then we're trying to approach our situations with the assurance of the other person Knowing our identity And i think that

[00:50:01] Jacob: Hmm i think that I guess i'm trying to find a bridge over to identity because i think what i'm trying to say is that our identity often blocks us from realizing True inner feelings that like as a human They're gifts but we kind of have blocked ourselves from feeling what's real inside of us and we instantly go back to like what would my avatar do what would my avatar say yeah i think that It's interesting because our identity Blocks us from our experiencing our feelings is What you said um yeah our identity blocks us from Really like experiencing who we are The identity like that the identity wall that we want to put up being stuck to our identity that's the identity that's not fluid because the reality of our identity is it's fluid it's just like water it's changing at all times but we can't conceptualize that yeah i And i think we can't actually Our true identity like you're saying flows but i don't think we can understand that Without we can't understand ourselves

[00:51:20] Jacob: I think without understanding other people and then bringing it back to ourselves feeling how that feels understanding ourselves a little bit more bringing ourselves out to others seeing how it you know turns up with them coming back And like you know just this constant like back and forth and realizing like A lot of me trying to not be annoying is you know i would like try something out and i would say something at some volume level i used to be very Loud i'm still very loud but and i and it's funny being around my family they're all yelling and i'm like why are we all yelling like can't we just be a little bit calmer and they're like what are you talking about like you made us go to this level Because you used to yell yourself exactly so it's

[00:52:06] Abrielle: Just everyone in my family is very loud and i always used to be very loud so i would approach situations where i was very loud and very you know like Up and outspoken and just all over the place and people would tell me i'm annoying and weird and so i would just come back and like see how that feels yeah i would hold it and you know a lot and But you learn from that and so instead of just being like all in your face and being loud and just talking fast and all these My dad always tells me to slow down and

[00:52:38] Abrielle: So i come out a little bit and i see how it works out and i come back and i'm like okay how did we feel about that they didn't say i was annoying did i care if what they thought about me and that experience like how did i feel about that in the experience you know i feel like i was being annoying i felt like you know i saw their face maybe they didn't like it when i reached this level that kind of thing and then like you see how you can interact with certain people you see that certain people want you to be quiet certain people want you to be louder and you can kind of see how you can just like maneuver yourself but in all of that maneuvering like where is your base and i've realized my base is this Calm light happy Optimistic realist that i bring The best into situations and if people

[00:53:30] Abrielle: Are feeding up to the higher levels and stuff maybe i can get louder and i can get a little bit faster and we can go back and forth and do all this stuff but if the situation is i can be more towards my base then we Can have a slow conversation we can you know be at this level and Those kinds of things so i feel like people need in order for people to be more understanding of everyone else in cliche they need to Start with themselves we need to understand ourselves more but I don't it's really hard and it takes a long time and i've been working on myself a lot and One of the things i've always believed i Think i was thinking about this in like 10th grade so what's that like 2 4 8 10 or 12 years ago My biggest thing is i don't do new year's resolutions i do new changes every day

[00:54:30] Abrielle: Every day something about me should be different and i'm just change my new year's resolutions by the end of the year by the next year i should be exponentially different because i'm changing every single day and yeah and so this idea Like i'll wait until next week i'll wait until i'll wait until next month i'll wait until tomorrow i don't believe in that because god forbid a meteor strikes and like you know or the person you're thinking of wanting to be different with gets in a car accident or you like i just smashed my face into the Door the other day and like i couldn't open my eyes and like my first thought was like i'm so disoriented oh my god what if i'm blind and like those Those things can happen just so like you Could fall and like hit the corner of a table and knock one of your eyes out and you know never have depth perception again and just those kinds of things Are so real some people think i'm Pessimistic for thinking that way but i just it's a

[00:55:36] Jacob: Presence you get a presence from thinking that way thinking that any interaction you have With someone could be your last one like Somebody leaves in the heat of the moment that could be the last thing you guys ever say to each other if you like you never know And so i'm a huge it's a big deal to me The interaction and that's why i'm so conscious of being in the moment and that's one of the biggest things i've always worked on is because when i was in college i got straight a's Which means i studied my ass off i got straight a's but i didn't have a lot of life experience you know i did a lot of like studying and people went out to football games and i was reading my boring ass history book like i did a Lot of that and so a lot of my time was I'm rushing from one place to another while reading and thinking and listening to Something on my way to going somewhere and I was never present and then when i

[00:56:44] Jacob: Started working i started working while i was in school so i did school full-time and then i worked as full-time as possible and i was just going from so much and i would get to like i think i talked to you about this last time actually i would get into a situation and be like yeah like this is great i just gotta go do this next thing and like i'd always be like on the ready to go do the next thing And i would never just like be Here so that's one of the things that i Really have been working on and i think that is important And not enough people in my experience Understand what being here means Right i mean i like it's something that Definitely because i dealt with a lot of um disassociation when i was younger um it's like a it's like a trauma response basically you know like the pain of the moment is so severe that your mind protects you from it by floating the **** away uh yeah so it was pretty profound for me

[00:57:44] Jacob: Too like the uh i mean it was like three years ago when i started meditating and doing yoga and stuff learning about the present moment um and what that really means like it was it's so weird to me that's so Profound like it was so Changing like life altering changing to Me to discover like oh wow like you're thinking at all times you're thinking like we're i mean we have 60 000 thoughts a day or something like that's crazy we don't think we are we're just a ball of thoughts and habits walking around but we think we're completely in control we're like yeah i'm choosing what to think next whatever um like the you know That's kind of like a lot of my philosophy in life as it's still unfolding you know i'm still trying to figure out like really what is something that what's a what's a value and uh um you know things that like

[00:58:38] Jacob: I think will stick with me throughout my whole life like this is just who i am this is who i'm going to always be because i'm a very changing fluid person i love changing i love evolving i love the same thing like you were talking about um but a lot of my philosophy lately is with all self-actualization is basically how do i in each moment that i am given How do i enjoy it to its to its fullest because i'm aware that we're not going to arrive anywhere like i'm not like how can i work my ass Off now so i can retire and have 50 margaritas a Day until i pass out and drown in the pool you know like i want to th the life that you live like we don't Go we don't take any of this with us we the The things that we think we are you know the ego mind like our identity our identification with our name and who we are it's just it doesn't go into black

[00:59:31] Jacob: Nothingness of suffering when we're gone it's just gone we don't experience we're not the conscious experiencer of it so while you do have this experience while you do have this life how could i absorb it more fully how could i be more Here in each moment because like you said what if i suddenly like i'm not really there and i'm

[00:59:52] Abrielle: I'm at dinner with my friend and we're you know having a beer or whatever but i'm really distracted i'm on my phone and i'm like yeah okay cool frank yeah whatever like see you later and then he gets in a car wreck on the way home like i'd be like wow yeah i sure wish that i that i would have been more present with him and it's not about like you know finding places that you regret trying to stamp out regret before it happens but i think so i had a friend actually Abrielle who um when we were in high school uh phenomenal skateboarder cool dude one of my good buddies he was cleaning his room get this he was cleaning his room and he had arms an arm load of stuff um like and he Was trying to open the door like finishing up cleaning his room i think and in his arm was a handheld

[01:00:34] Abrielle: Uh i think handheld pellet gun that happened to be loaded happened to not have the safety on in opening his doorknob it fell hit his knee shot his own eye out yeah literally happened when we were kids like i mean just so you never you never would have thought you know in watching like the beauty of that human man just like watching him re-learn how to skateboard like re-learn how to like do all these things and experience this like tragic loss of you know losing like all the vision in one eye and having a replacement eye and stuff that could happen at any moment like at any moment we could be trying to open the damn door with too much **** in our hands and shoot our eye out so what it's not about trying to Avoid those moments it's not about never being uncomfortable it's not about listening to our fear in In staying in our safe caves so nothing bad ever happens and we can plan everything and control everything it's about while you're being courageous While you're living life while you're um

[01:01:30] Abrielle: You know looking for different sometimes difficult sometimes easy sometimes fun sometimes not as fun experiences it's basically how do you be more present with it how do you really be there how do you really breathe in each moment to its fullest to Me that's what it's all about and i'll tell you there was Um because of the way our job works and There's so there's a real season and then you're off Um when i first started I completely disappeared mentally During our show season and then i was able to like recover and i mean i was also younger and not as aware of myself as i am now i would say i've always been aware of myself but i'm you know we're just always growing so when i first started and i've been Doing this job for four years now when i first started it was like i Disappeared i wasn't mentally like My life was work i would stay up all

[01:02:33] Abrielle: Night and work any work that needed to be done got done i would just keep working i'm available 24 7. you call my phone i answer it and i get on whatever i needed to get on to do i would skip eating i would skip exercising i would skip all this stuff because i don't have time because i have to work and what i've fallen into or what i didn't Fall into it was intentional what i've changed is that I need my own base And i add work into it so I haven't missed a workout i haven't missed a meal i'm i've shopped specifically for my busy Schedule you know like i buy pre-chopped vegetables i buy easy to make meals i do Those things that are make my life easier but i don't work All day i do my other things and i add Work in and i don't disappear i don't You know like i realize i'm a human and sometimes when i'm working so much and staring at a screen and just sitting there for hours that i lose track of time and forget that i

[01:03:45] Abrielle: Need to breathe and take a break and drink a glass of water and just like

[01:03:49] Jacob: Decompress for a second and i think you were talking about the vagus nerve and just getting out of the stress space And just grounding yourself and realizing like i'm here on earth and there are like Bugs and leaves and nature and planes flying in the air and All these kinds of things going on that Like what's in my laptop and in my phone Are so like such a small percentage of My experience as a human and i it's taken me a long time to Realize that and i still i'm a hard worker and i still want to say like i don't want to identify with being a workaholic i think i'm a little bit of a workaholic but like i also want to take time for myself and

[01:04:40] Jacob: I want to i want to i want to work a lot during the weekdays so that the people who have actual schedules when they're relaxing on the weekend i want to be able to relax with them like i want to be present i don't wanna disappear during the busy times i don't wanna you know like we have a lot of shows in march i don't wanna disappear in march and just watch march Go by that's one of the things we always talk about is we forget what happens in our show season and we forget and it just Buzzes by and then suddenly it's june and we're like what happened and then we go into it next year and we're like well what did we do last time and we're like i don't even remember We just disappear i don't I'm not doing it anymore okay i feel Like what we're kind of talking about I'm not trying to oversimplify but it just seems like gratitude honestly like gratitude really just like

[01:05:38] Abrielle: Remembering to you know even though work can get exhausting even though it can get tiring like there is things that you love about it there's definitely things you love about it is there is a point where it's like i've been working a lot i've been building up to this thing and like especially for shows for us it's like weeks and weeks of work like for you especially as like the facilitator of the middle person of all these things and then also doing all the graphics and organizing everything yeah everybody and planning all the flights and all this stuff like that's so stressful and sometimes It is so fast-paced there's so many moving parts that you don't always get to slow down and be like hey

[01:06:13] Abrielle: I know i'm booking your flight and we're waiting for a response but we should we should really remember to value this moment you know you can't always bring the present moment into just cut through everything and be like hey remember the present moment but i think that there is times where you do have to insert it so for us the live events there is a moment where it's almost you want to take off your headphones and just like This looks good you know we did This like wow like i'm proud of myself like this is this is an experience like on my deathbed if there's some sort of like memory flashback boom what am i proud of like i hope you know maybe this is one of them hope it is because i'm proud of this and this is good like wow like this is good what does it smell like what does it feel like you know what clothes am i wearing just really being present with that moment so

[01:06:59] Jacob: I think that do you think that not being present takes away our ability or our connection as a human species to feel gratitude I would say Yes not being present Keeps us from feeling gratitude which stops us from connecting with other people and it's i think it's a it's a different Type of person someone who is grateful For a lot in life It you i think gratitude comes from a Lot of pain and i think compassion and understanding Comes from a lot of pain and it's hard to expect a lot of people To be grateful and compassionate when They haven't experienced that type of pain and so like people who have their parents have died and their friends have died And they themselves have gone through Their own ego death or experienced just a lot of like a Really hard point in their lives when You have gone through that you can Relate to someone who has gone through something painful as well and so Something that we've talked about before

[01:08:24] Jacob: And i was talking to my trainer about is i talked to you last time about i was going to the gym and i just didn't feel like i was good at working out it didn't feel like my body looked good i didn't feel like all these things and she reminded me Abrielle you're forgetting your gratitude like thank goodness you're able to work Out you're so privileged you're able to go to the gym afford a gym membership you're so healthy you are so lucky to Have grown up in a family that was Financially stable enough that they could afford healthy foods i learned proper balanced nutrition i Didn't eat fast food until i was in high school and i bought it myself my parents never they raised me on like Dinner is five ounces of protein Two blocks of vegetables and like a

[01:09:15] Jacob: Different kind of carb like soup or rice or something like that and so like whenever i look at a meal i know where the balance is and how big it is in comparison like maybe you're having this much meat and you're having this much vegetables but like they compare to each other so thank goodness i'm able To just know that thank goodness i'm so healthy i woke up this morning i can breathe i Got in my car and it started I got to the gym and there are people There and i'm surrounded by people who care about their fitness and their well-being and their health and we live in a world where that's starting to become like a normal thing people caring about Their health like thank goodness this is my experience and that's just That she lost her mom a year and a half ago those that type of thinking only comes From extreme pain this type of gratitude like I wake up and i look at my ceiling i

[01:10:15] Jacob: Have a window right by my bed so every morning when i wake up it's just bright i don't have blackout curtains i don't like those i like waking up too bright like and i wake up I'm in this bed that i paid for in an Apartment that i can afford because i have a job that i love that pays me enough money to live here And i'm awake i'm breathing My body's a little sore and that's great because it's from a workout that i put work into it's just growing as well like you're yeah and it's just thank goodness This is my experience i wake up i wake up to my cats yelling at me thank goodness i'm able to like afford

[01:11:00] Abrielle: Two animals that support me and my happiness and i can pet them all the time and right you know yeah like i mean because you know as much as it annoys you if they wake you up and they're just meowing or something and you're like really i mean when you know there's gonna be come there's gonna come in time when the cats are gonna move on you know when in their life cycle so true so you're gonna be like dang it i you know there's gonna be time in your life where you're like i wish i could hear them waking my ass up in the morning you know i just don't know i realized i forgot it was my cat's birthday recently she's turning five she turned five i have had this cat since she was since Her umbilical cord was attached like i have had this cats i raised her And she is five years old i'm like

[01:11:47] Jacob: In shock they tell you that about children that they just like grow up and you have to like watch them but i'm just like looking at her like oh my god you've existed for five years it's so Crazy yeah it's so nuts and you know just I have to take time to play with my pets and that takes time away from work and i have to take time to take care of them clean their litter box buy them food and make food for myself and all of these things in life take time away from work and i've always been Comparing how much time things take away from work Meanwhile work takes time away from my life experience yeah you get caught up in every second i'm not working is another dollar i'm not making you know or whatever it is i have with my dog blue Um that's something that i actually had to like he helped me again just learn more presents um i would

[01:12:46] Abrielle: Have times i'm some i'm constantly listening to stuff like youtube i'm just constantly absorbing i think you're like this a lot too um just like listening to podcasts or youtube or some background something um but i started like kind of intentionally you know come home from work and i'm listening to something because usually i'll get home put in headphones just listen to something or continue listening to what i was listening to in the car um like stretch out in the garage and do my little like routine come upstairs and if he's in if he's in here if he's staying over then what i would try to do is take out my headphones and put my phone away and just cuddle the guy for 10 15 minutes like just be with him just let him nuzzle me just you know talk with him just hang out with him just exist with him and i really i really came to like Like that moment of an intentional Presence where i'm like i could be listening to this thing and then also just kind of petting my dog that sounds cool too but no man i love

[01:13:41] Abrielle: This dog and i really want to like feel that to its fullest degree so i'm Gonna i'm gonna take out the headphones and i'm gonna get present with them and then that builds up uh that That builds up gratitude like by being present you build up gratitude because then i would have times where i'm driving home from work and i'm just thinking like oh i get to pet my dog like you know it just excites me so um dude

[01:14:04] Jacob: What you said about compassion like compassion is compassion is learned Through pain or something you said holy **** like that's powerful i was i Was thinking you know when you first started that i was just like wow like you're reaching into something inside me for sure because i you know i think a lot of my Um my you know Emotional intelligence but um Also you know sensitivity but also uh I don't know i think my empathy for humanity and my compassion for others is because of me experiencing you know I'm a hurt people you know i experienced pain when i was Younger and then like now my life is like i'm not gonna like bring that pain on to on to other

[01:14:51] Abrielle: People or i want to like learn how to work with that or i want to learn how to make other people not feel the pain that i experienced and yeah so that does build compassion i'm almost like looking for like you know how can i help you how can i help you not feel the terrible things that i have felt inevitably as a human being myself so yeah compassion brings pain that was that's **** powerful it absolutely is like how can i make sure that you don't feel these feelings anytime i in Work in just Like when people are going through Anything people are you know i have a friend who's now a new mom and they're new parents and um people i ask to do things for work And people who are going through breakups and people who are going through you know whatever it is just Like i have felt so low And i have felt so stressed

[01:15:48] Jacob: That maybe i don't know how you feel But i can certainly empathize and I want to do whatever i can do to help You get out of that because i have been there and all i Wanted was someone to just like reach a hand you know what i mean And that like the new mom Anything i can do to help her i just wanted because having a baby is freaking crazy i don't I've never had a baby obviously but just like it's a whole life shift and you're now responsible for this little person and every single thing you do Has to be for this little person and Is seen by this little person even as Babies every single thing you do the Pace at which you get off the couch The amount that you sleep the Level the volume level of your voice When you speak to anybody the energy you bring Into any conversation from birth until death affects That little baby just so like Anything i can do to help this person i want to any and with work oh my god i was just

[01:17:10] Jacob: Talking about this the other day um talking about how i manage my stress And things like that and i was talking about Um last year when we went from all live Events to all virtual events there was this crunch where i was the Only one working actually i was the only one working with you and we were the only people putting These virtual shows together and it was just so much work in Like 13 days i think was a span we did

[01:17:42] Abrielle: 10 shows in 13 days something like that and we had to like learn different ways and new ways to do it i like i thought that i had it down at the beginning but i was like wait i have to do this all **** different i have to do this it's so different i was like show on my mobile phone while trying to live record and like time everything perfectly as if it was a live show i was just totally and it was the expectation was put on you that you would do it like we normally would when you learned that there was actually a difference in how you should be doing it didn't work i had to do it a different way exactly and so when we went through that Experience i did not sleep there was a span There was a span where we had so many shows in like a five-day period That i worked 95 hours In like four or five days i got No sleep i was sitting down On my laptop from 9 00 am until 11 pm

[01:18:39] Abrielle: And then i got tired so i stood up and worked from 11 p. m to Like 8 a. m and then so i so i went to sleep And i woke back up but no you're like i stood up and did another time i literally like i have a bar in my kitchen and i stood up at the bar working from 11 p. m until 8am and then i would like make breakfast take a shower get back on my computer sit down 9am to 11pm stand up and just be working I wasn't eating i wasn't sleeping it was So stressful mentally Physically like my body hurt from Standing all night and not eating and not Sleeping and like i would render something and i Had seven minutes for it to render and i couldn't do anything else and so i would just like sleep real quick and then like when it went yeah and it was so taxing I don't feel any stress anymore like it Was so traumatizing for me that there's Nothing i experience anymore that is Even slightly stressful to me i

[01:19:47] Abrielle: You know like there are a lot of things on my plate right now for sure but i don't feel any type of stress About them because nothing compared to what i went through right yeah so you grow through the you know i mean you grow through adversity like some say but you know growing through just hardship basically And so like now i have a different understanding Of stress and when other people are

[01:20:13] Jacob: Stressed like i know how you feel how can i help you there players because i was just There like i was so when you're Stressed though so that's an important thing that you do you bring compassion to it and you and you don't because what i'll see Some people do when they're like Like oh i you know i've worked i'm on i'm working my 16 hour days and then someone comes in they're like oh dude i'm so tired like i just worked 12 hours like and immediately what the 16 hour person could do is like bro that ain't **** i worked 16 hours and i Haven't slept and you know my mom's in the hospital in My you know and they're just like here's how what you have to say and what you're going through is not valid because mine's more valid than you instead of doing that you're like i feel You like i oh man it was pretty rough when i was on my 12 hours like what can i do you need water do you need like a lemonade you know like what all of your experience is your experience

[01:21:13] Jacob: The worst thing that's happening to you is the worst thing that's happening to you i don't i don't like when people say like you know oh you think you're hungry but there are children starving in africa like there's not much that i can compare

[01:21:29] Abrielle: Myself to people starving in africa but it doesn't affect that like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me you know there's not it just it doesn't matter it doesn't really work i don't think that stuff works comparing yourself to yeah i'm hungry people are starving in africa but like this is the most hungry i've ever been or yes my job is hard but there are people who are working harder like it doesn't comparing myself to that someone else's situation just doesn't work and so i never want to put on someone like I do a lot in my job like i do a lot And you only have one role like You're only the audio director like can You really be stressed you know like i'm never gonna be like that it's Just if there's something that you're experiencing and it's very stressful for You then it's very stressful for you and i respect and understand that and like how can i help okay i have

[01:22:28] Abrielle: I'm not trying to steamroll but i'm gonna take this i want to connect this part right here back to what we started with basically like not you know at the beginning we're talking about trying to talk to someone who's let's say like a super um you know mega person or a very war very You know they're very hardcore into their into their beliefs you You bring Bringing compassion and understanding in Their lived experience because exactly How we are like i get you i get you i totally

[01:23:03] Abrielle: Get where you're coming from it's hard for us to bring that same level of understanding and compassion into like you know like say we're talking someone who's like very obsessed with q and on quainon or whatever and they've been spending 16 hours a day on these like forums and like there i mean you know their entire belief system is basically like this is the most true information i've ever read because you can learn you can dive into the into a lot of that stuff and if you're learning about it for weeks and weeks and months and months or years even like it's your truth and So reality for sure so how do we That's where like there's this part with you know kind of you know empathic or Um compassionate people or just people

[01:23:48] Jacob: Who like we want to understand we want to be like oh like you're going through pain or oh you're going through trouble or oh like you're you feel like you're being lied to by corporations by the government like you feel like you're being lied to it in um and you know People are disobeying you and you don't have any trust like how do we in these moments where we're

[01:24:10] Abrielle: Having these weird especially in america just right now politics is an easy lens but there's so many expanding out like there's so many different little levels of this how do we bring that much compassion because we haven't experienced that ourselves so we haven't gone like 10 layers deep on like these crazy conspiracy theories or whatever it is it's not a conspiracy theory it's hard for us to bring that compassion because we're like oh my god like you believe something very drastically different than me i don't even know where to start i don't even know how to treat you it doesn't seem like you're even willing to listen to me even if i am kind of offering space i don't know i can't exactly Propose a specific question here but does this does this make sense to you i was just trying to grip this line back to solving that Problem of misconduction i know what you're saying and i think it comes from or i think it not it can be solved by

[01:25:00] Abrielle: But it can be helped by just trying to understand people like where they come from like why are you so what makes what allows you to become So obsessed with something and i'll tell you one of the So just um separate example um Something that i really went through in my relationship learning the craziest thing to me about My boyfriend is that i've never met someone like him And i just could not understand him i could not for the first like i want to Say 10 months to a year of our relationship i was just trying to like figure this person out i could not understand who or

[01:25:45] Jacob: Why like why do you think this way And you know he's a very stubborn person and he's very hard-headed wants to be Right wants to be like the leader wants to be The um he likes he's very independent And he all these kinds of things and i'm just like what makes you such a hard like top like alpha Man alpha yeah alpha type person like What is that and it took me forever to just like understand the dynamics of being an only child Because i'm not an only child and so much of his personality i think Comes from being an only child an only Child you learn so much independence you're depended on To be like good to your parents because Like you're the only offspring you're the only thing they have to really nurture so there comes A lot of i think a lot of his Personalities based off of being an only child and so many things

[01:26:53] Jacob: Come from that and i see so many things about him that i'm like that's a tendency because you didn't have any siblings you were never like things he doesn't think about maybe because he never depends on anyone else and i'm like you know i want to go to things and support you i want like why aren't you asking me about these things why don't you do this my expectations why don't you do this why don't you do that because he's never had anyone To do those things with i've always had a brother for him though is it like mind-blowing is he like really like you're no grateful or he just doesn't care so he's just he's just like i don't i've never needed it and i'm just like yeah i'm like why isn't it mind-blowing to you that like someone cares about you and he's like I've never needed it's never been something that it's never an expectation and it's just like it's mind-blowing to me that you know someone can be that way but it's just it's what you learn and so

[01:27:44] Jacob: Bringing that back to what you asked i think we can learn a lot about people like people who don't trust the government did they grow up with their parents together like are there have their are their parents separated or not because separated parents can make you um Not believe in people or have you been cheated on like that can that can really affect your trust issues have you yourself done something that can um make you not Trust other people because you know you can't trust yourself how much do you trust yourself are you projecting this lack of trust on other people and i'm using that example Because that's a personal experience so um but Like i think once we if we run into this person That's just like so hard about i have these political views i believe in this conspiracy theory i believe in this i believe in that like what makes you such a sh close-minded sure about this Type of person like do you have Siblings that loved you did your Parents hug you like all these types of

[01:28:50] Jacob: Things and you can't ask someone you know like they're upset about biden winning you can't just be like does your mother ever hug you when you were little so tell me about your childhood trauma since you voted for this mother but you know exactly but like that's what i want to Know that's what i want to understand like what do you do for work okay cool that's like your role and your responsibilities what do you do like when you go home Everyone's working for home or like when you go to work like do you sit down on your desk and you love every second of working or are you stressed all the time and what is being stressed all the time how does that affect like when you go home and you're with your family do you see your family when you're home are you single are you upset that you're single do you love that you're single do you have children do you have a dog Do you hate animals like what type of

[01:29:41] Jacob: Person are you and what makes you feel that way and i just think there are a lot of people who don't think like that who don't like understand that way or want to analyze That way well i mean we it's just like we're talking about we're always trying to we're always trying to when it comes to our identities with like uh you know um again throwing the word ego in there i know it's overused but a lot of our identities we're trying to take snapshots at all times we're trying to be like this is me this is who i am like this is here's who i am and but we We you know again there's a the actuality of reality is We're fluid we're always changing but it And so that means that who you are right now at this very second has everything to do With how you were treated when you were younger like you know all the time is only right now but you're acting out this long Drawn-out 30-year process of exactly what's been happening to you since you were younger like you are you know like uh

[01:30:41] Jacob: Like dr joe dispenza says a A mood or an emotion becomes a mood A mood becomes a personality like when You when you just hold on to it you know so like it's your personality today because you got into a mood you know like some like too many series of arguments with your parents when you're younger or whatever and or even me i can tell Um and it's not with resentment that i hold this but just in retrospect and as i'm doing all this healing and trying to like really dissect who i am and like okay like i'm an artistic like i'm Not artistic you know contemplative think Like i enjoy thinking in ethereal ways I enjoy a lot of my art artistic sides Are kind of born through my trauma like my

[01:31:31] Abrielle: Like through my younger years of things that i experienced that were bad that i had to you know the things that i'm a very introverted person but i'm very sharpened in my extroversion because i had to go out and get a job like you know as soon as i was legal to like go out and start selling clothes and start being more social and start you know all these things so we're built off of who we were when we were children but we do disconnect from this fact and we can't seem to face it and we have i mean i know i know people who Just in and they'll never they'll Never openly speak about it like you or i would who you know were sexually abused when they were younger and like it clearly affects them it

[01:32:17] Abrielle: Clearly gives them things that they have to deal with it gives them you know whether it's alcoholism whether it's anger problems whether it's you know closed off and these aren't things to be insecure about these are real you know like i have nothing but compassion for these people i totally get it um but we can't seem to couple Who we are in every moment with the Things that have been done to us because if we were able to do that if we were able to bring that into our noticed awareness we could be like

[01:32:48] Jacob: Oh i don't have to prove anything to this person i don't have to act out this thing i can accept love from this person they're not going to hurt me just because i've been hurt in the past doesn't mean that this person is going to hurt me or whatever it is so do you think that Do you think i guess do you think we're dealing with a traumatized society that doesn't know They're traumatized i'll tell you that my boyfriend is a very big proponent he's um west indian so he's a very he Believes that white people are the majority of people Who are mentally ill and as many times as i want to have the argument that just like there are i'm sure there's so many reasons i know black people who are in therapy so like I don't know i don't i can't talk about the racial statistics but i think people what you're talking about i think people just want to be seen and that's a huge Thing that i do and it's a heart people are so Surprised when you see them and like

[01:33:49] Jacob: Just like we're talking about when someone comes at you with a surface level conversation and i'm like trying to figure out like Where their line of thinking comes from and i'm like how are you like how did you grow up did you grow up around here or like did you move a lot as a child like where did where is this coming from and they're like huh you're like trying to push away the parts that aren't them like hey you don't where are you where are you in there Yeah like i wanna see you like i wanna see Like there's this thing about us that's just blocking each other from understanding like i wanna what like we were talking about the foggy glass like i wanna like wipe away what's blocking it and like figure out what you actually look like And what you actually seem like and i think it comes A lot from understanding yourself to be Able to understand people and i feel like just recently i'm

[01:34:48] Jacob: Really starting to understand myself like you're saying taking a snapshot of your identity just recently like in the last week i've taken a snapshot of myself and i've been like this is **** awesome like this person Yeah this person i'm building is **** awesome like i'm learning how to manage my stress i'm learning how to be more present i'm learning how to think about myself more and think about Understand when i'm projecting onto someone rather than like their experience is coming on to me and just so there's a so like The annoying thing if someone were to call me annoying now like i'm either doing something i Know is annoying or it's not annoying and so what you're saying doesn't affect me or if it's annoying to you just like not my problem there is not anyone can call me anything And it doesn't affect me because i know i'm not that thing the only way it affects you is if you're

[01:35:47] Jacob: Insecure about yourself and not sure maybe i am this thing maybe i am ugly but like if someone came up and called me fat and just like called me fat all the time i'm not gonna get upset and think i'm fat i know i'm not fat i'm gonna get upset because this person keeps calling me fat like why am i gonna be around a person who keeps calling me fat like you know like i'm not gonna get Insecure and stuff like that i'm not gonna look at my body and be like oh my god maybe i am fat like i don't associate like you

[01:36:15] Abrielle: Can't call me anything that i don't associate with and upset me because i'm in control of my reaction to it and my reality well thoughts from other people can really get sticky inside of us like they can be you know someone calls you annoying that's something you hold on to you know look at a kid for example you know if you if you bully a kid or there's like some traumatizing like where six kids team up and just really bully someone that's enough to like **** up their life look at justin ren i think we both watched that broken podcast i mean he's talking about he goes to this party that they told him this sounds like a tv commercial or something like where at the end they're gonna show the duracell battery guy and his mom hugging him or something like he goes to a party and they told him it was a dress-up party so he made like this cool like transformers outfit out of cardboard boxes or something like that

[01:37:01] Abrielle: Walks into the party nobody's wearing costumes except for him everyone's laughing at him he's devastated he runs away and he's like traumatized like he has like suicidal thoughts as a 35 year old man like dealing with counseling dealing with addiction all these things because of that moment he believes i mean holy **** so So growth is this powerful thing

[01:37:24] Abrielle: And it's not just like maturity happens on its own i think this takes work but you can not take what other people say to be the only truth like their opinions of you just belong in their head like that's the only place they're in and you don't have to accept them you don't have to hear them you don't have to put them into your head but sometimes they get sticky sometimes it's like someone so one person says you're annoying and it's like for the next six weeks everything you do you're a little more timid because he's like i want to be the annoying person you know like but so much of it too can be them projecting on to you like maybe people were calling me annoying because they have learned that like doing these things are annoying to other people other people have called them being them annoying for doing certain things or something like that and so they see me doing something and they're like you're annoying but it's really them projecting on to me

[01:38:11] Abrielle: That they were being annoying you know what i mean hurt people hurt people so i'm not gonna say my entire experience was people projecting on me i'm i was certainly annoying when i was younger but and i'm certainly annoying now like even times where i saw a funny meme the Other day that was like sometimes even i'm like girl calm down And it's so true like there are times when We were talking about um trying to take Life less seriously and so there are times when i'm just so Upset about something whatever Ridiculous and i take a step back and i'm like come on give me a break girl like Why are you upset about this thing it's not a big deal yeah relax like um my boyfriend and i like to Match when we go out and sometimes he just changes his mind And wears a different outfit and i used to be like yeah exactly I'm like so upset and i'm like literally

[01:39:14] Abrielle: Like i planned my whole outfit and like all these things are going through my head and you just and then i'm just like i don't look cool without you looking cool and then i'm Just like hold on a second who **** cares Like who cares who cares if we're Matching like it's such a yeah that moment where You're like oh yeah oh yeah okay i can just let go And then also the tension in your body where we hold all of our emotions in our body and all of a sudden just huh oh yeah and you could laugh and You're right yeah it's just like i was making The art for our podcast and i'm just like What would be so funny and i have that photo of you on stage where you're kneeling down and i was like i have a photo of me nailing down too and so at first it was like a squad photo of you and i kneeling next to each other and i was like what if we were in space This is more far out needs more far outness

[01:40:13] Abrielle: And then i turned you upside down and i was just like we need some helmets on here and they'll like throw an airplane even though it doesn't make any sense in space but You know just stuff like that like the size of the airplane i don't know if it exists that's a big **** airplane Listener if you're if you're listening right now look at the podcast album aren't brielle made for us that's what we're talking about it's just like and it's just it's so funny and so ridiculous and it doesn't make any sense and it's just like i feel like so much of Like my job that i do and so many people's frustration and you know like i have a lot of work

[01:40:53] Jacob: On my plate and person in charge of all the work that i do is like you have a lot of stuff and i'm stressed about the amount of things that you're doing and i'm like i don't know why you're stressed it's not your stuff to work on it's not He's like i feel like you know i want to see this thing and i want to you know xyz and i'm just like It's my stress i don't know why you're stressed about it just like you know i just i think It's just we need to be less serious like it's not our team gets so uptight about this and That and you know all these things god Maybe some people's way of being Their version of empathetic and i don't mean to disavow let's lose your their version let's just say their version of empathy like how they've learned to be empathetic what if sometimes that is Feeling people's stress for them Like that's how they communicate empathy or wait is that is that apathy no Empathy there's sympathy and empathy Right so empathy is trying to feel the Other person's emotion yeah so when

[01:42:08] Jacob: Someone they recognize like they don't innately feel like oh my gosh like how can i help I've experienced this i don't want you to feel like this much struggles i have instead of that approach they say i'm going to be stressed As if that takes away some of your stress or as if that makes you feel more validated maybe that maybe communicating that they're stressed makes the other person feel more validated if they do get stressed almost like hey if you're stressed it's okay but that's just not like a healthy coping mechanism that's just not really how to show compassion and empathy that's so true because you know if someone's upset or having like an anxiety attack you never want to get anxiety on their behalf because Making yourself stressed out i'm with you bro i'm stressed too start looking at pictures of your ex right it's not gonna help it's just like you need to be the calm one and that's Always where i come from whenever someone comes to me with like stress or Anxiety i'm just like let's think about like the Positive or like the grateful or

[01:43:20] Jacob: The like where do you come out of it Or maybe some people just need to feel it sometimes you know like it's not what's the solution it's just that you just want to be heard and some people just want to be listened To and like maybe they just need someone to Talk to i've had a friend recently they're going through a lot of stuff and it's just like they just need someone to talk to it's not like how can We solve this how can we make it better how like what can we do or how could you Have not been in this situation how can you improve in the future not focusing on this self-improvement just wants to talk about it You know and i don't know i I agree that just getting stressed on Someone else's behalf i don't think that's the way to do it because that's not the way i'm not gonna i'm not gonna make myself Upset i'm not gonna have my life experience be Harder because yours is yeah i want mine To be great and making my life experience great

[01:44:26] Abrielle: Is making others experience great because then i'm surrounded by glowing people so that's all i want to do is just make other people's experience great right so at all times you're almost trying to figure out like what are you feeling right now you know that's kind of like how uh do you know your personality type brielle like your uh okay i know what you're talking about but i haven't no yeah i know that stuff is a little far-fetched for some people too but i'm an infj and I think that i'm always You know subconsciously trying to figure out how someone feels like trying to like i'm one of those people who I feel anyway this might be grandiose or You know self validating or something But i feel as if i can always like hey what's up man you're talking to someone and then like i can be like are you good like i I get the expression of their of Their personness of their humanity you know

[01:45:31] Abrielle: I feel like i get like little signals from their soul even if they're feeding me some other **** you know because i've done that same thing so i think that i can like relate with it or see when it's happening so i'm i'm always trying to figure Out where they're really coming from not without the projections not the armor not the boundary you know i'll respect their boundaries not the barriers rather um But always trying to navigate in the reason why i'm always trying to navigate is because i want to insert compassion i want to generally want their want their this This um you know confrontation this communication this conversation to be

[01:46:10] Abrielle: Better and more fruitful for the other person but it's also just this like i feel like that's what we should be doing with each other is trying to push each push aside each other's **** you know like if someone if one of my homies is coming in and they're freaking out and they're in a bad mood and they're going off like you know at some point i gotta be like my guy chill you're good what's up yeah what's going on yeah like what talk to me like let's turn off this **** microphone let's turn off this camera like what's going on talk to me like let's go over to let's go over here for a second you know or whatever it's always like the core of what i want to bring to the table of friendships and companionships and interactions with you know co-workers or whatever it is i want to cut through the **** and be like what's up man what's What's trying to come out here what's behind this these layers

[01:46:55] Abrielle: That you're trying to put up that you are unconsciously thinking you don't even know you that you're doing it but i think so much of it comes from you Personally understanding yourself like i know that i do so much work on Myself and i understand myself so much That i've gone through this problem and this is how i got out of it this is you know i encountered this and Whatever obstacle or whatever challenge and like this is how i navigated and Then i see other people who are trying To navigate the same things and sometimes it's helpful not to say this is the solution but here was my solution here's how i Navigated and they can try it on and they can see if it works and sometimes it doesn't work you know some people just think very differently and that's something i've learned is that people think differently than me Than i do you know and they have just Comple it's something i've gotten from traveling is just that People just think differently they think Of other things they don't think of some things that you do they view the

[01:48:01] Abrielle: World differently they view people differently they view family differently they've you know it's just things like that it's just people can be so different and I you know when i think anything when i Think anything that's my way of thinking it that's unique to me there are a lot of people probably in the culture that i come from that i can relate to and think similarly But people in other cultures just might not even consider it or they might that might be the center Of what they consider and all other things like are around it you know and so like some in some cultures family is a huge deal in some cultures you leave your family very young and like you're it's you know like animals With um like birds they just kick them Out of the nest and like go fly and figure it out yeah and meanwhile in like spanish Countries it's like family forever and big family And family dinner every night and you know it's just so important and so there's just all these different dynamics and people and so What how to bring it back um like

[01:49:14] Abrielle: Just people experiencing different Things i want to not help their Help them experience it but at least Give them like here's how i've experienced it and how i've gotten through it and that just that comes from being in Pain and i can i can show you my path because i've been there like i've this is how i've navigated and figured it out but all of that comes from you understanding yourself before you can try to understand someone else because there's no way you can think of like what makes you an angry person what makes you quick tempered what makes you know Um sarcastic what makes you this type of person you don't even have that thought process

[01:50:01] Jacob: Until you think about yourself that way What makes me an optimist what makes me Where did i get this from what makes me Grateful how do i you just you Can't you can't look at other people and Analyze them in that way until you analyze yourself in that way right yeah i think it makes life so much more interesting too it really because everything becomes fascinating i remember jim carrey actually he's talked about like some sort of uh podium speech or interview or something i've heard from him um his desire to be so funny and so Um obtuse and um uh You know perpetually acting to be the funny guy to be the one to make everybody laugh was because his i think it was his mom i Think was either sick or very depressed she was very sad when he was young and so he turned it when he was from a young age he turned his job was like i'm gonna make mom laugh i'm gonna make her smile and like that you know that's projected

[01:51:03] Jacob: This huge trajectory of his entire career and it's kind of developed into who he is so you know i'm sure he didn't realize these things until he's like an older man he you know he didn't he didn't come up until he probably thought like i wonder why i am why am i always trying to make everybody laugh like you know there is the answer of look you know i just want to make other people smile but there's layers deep again with the layers of

[01:51:26] Abrielle: When did you learn these things was it a coping mechanism was it a you know is it good is it serving you so he could look okay i'm making everybody laugh that's a good thing you know that seems pretty good but am i doing it at the expense of my own true emotions am i shutting them down so you know he realizes i and he didn't say all this i'm going off my own rant on this he just communicated that his mom was sad and he wanted to make her laugh but we have to kind of look at who we are And why we are who we are as an older Person and not justify it Not find blame not Victimize ourselves and this is even cultural past right you know sometimes we get caught up in that in like i am the way i am

[01:52:15] Abrielle: Because of these things that happened to me because these things happen to my family blah like well if they aren't helpful to you and the culture around you right now like how can you shift them if they're not bringing you joy if there's things that you're holding on to if you're still trying to make everybody laugh but you're just **** sad and what you need right now is to feel some real emotions for a couple months then being happy for everybody around you is not working for you it's not fully working so um Yeah i think it's i think it's very fascinating to see and helpful for people so helpful to not Avoid um looking at why we are the ways that We are you know i think it's hard Hard to confront yourself you know it's Hard to if you're upset about something why are you upset like why is it getting to you what is it Or not even you know like someone's doing something why is it upsetting to you do you want to be doing it do you hate

[01:53:16] Abrielle: That you do you hate the thought of you doing it do you hate the thought of them doing it do you like what it where does it come from like what where and it's just hard to confront yourself and i don't even know if i don't even know If people get to the place of like i don't want to confront myself i feel Like there's just not even a conscious thought of like i

[01:53:42] Jacob: Can confront myself you know what i mean and i like what you said about so much of your personality and experience can come from one thing when you're younger because Definitely a lot of my personality comes From a dream i had when i was younger and Like my whole um yeah my whole My whole dream about um Like i had to i was in this I was in this like dark place i was very Young i was probably maybe not very young um I want to say i was like 15 15 or 16. something like that and um No i had to be younger than that but um No i think it was around like 16 or 17. Um i was i had a dream that i was in this like dark place and there were these faceless men Standing around me and they were making me shoot myself And i had to like i they were just like

[01:54:53] Jacob: Pressuring me and pressuring me and pressuring me and i was just i think i was sitting on the ground and there was like a spotlight on me and just these faceless seven faceless men in suits and they Were just like i don't even think they were saying anything it was just i was in the situation that i needed to shoot myself and i had to shoot myself and i had to do it i had to do it i had to do it and i shot myself in the stomach and i Felt myself die like i felt cold and Warmth and just falling and all the things i didn't Experience and all the thoughts i didn't think and All the thoughts i did think and what was right and what was wrong and people i'd miss and all the stuff i didn't get to experience because i died so young and All this kind of stuff and when i woke up i had sleep paralysis and i couldn't move and i thought i was literally dead like I couldn't open my eyes and i couldn't move and i had just killed

[01:55:48] Jacob: Myself and i was like this is it like i am really dead and i eventually woke Up and i was sleeping next to my brother and i like looked around and i have been I have been present and grateful for the Moment and will never let another person leave without making sure this moment was good i will never do that again because like That was such a powerful dream for me And such a powerful experience like anything can happen at any moment and I will not let you go or let me go Without making sure that this is good And we are good and there's nothing left unsaid and i was 100 myself and we both did the best that we Could in the situation and that's entirely who i am and It's just from that one dream that happens i remember us talking about

[01:56:45] Jacob: This we were i think we were working the show over in disney world um like 2019 and we were talking about this i remember because i and i feel so profound because i literally got chills when you're retelling me again and i think i got it when we were walking around too in disney world like uh wow it's so crazy You know when i asked earlier about um You know kind of your mystical experience or a conscious altering experience i think that would actually kind of fall into what i was kind of trying to point at these are experiences that you afterwards you're a changed person your perception of who you are and what you're going to do or how you see things or how you approach other people or how you just how you conceptualize your reality and how that controls who you are and your identity these things are changed um

[01:57:33] Jacob: Okay let's not crush it what is that what is that like not just an nde not just a near-death experience like you experience this in the in the you know the astral dream world realm which astral projection is very real lucid dreaming is very real um people like i haven't experienced it yet but there's people who oh my god you can go on crazy reddit sinkholes whatever but this is a real thing that can be experienced not necessarily a place As we would think of it as a physical place but it's a place within collective

[01:58:03] Abrielle: Consciousness that like people can see go through in dreams and experience similar things or certain events i mean this event changed who you are i had my similar events of you know when i first started all these things what suddenly made me like go the **** am i doing what like why am i doing things like this what is yo it was like this waking up moment was i've talked about it on before on here before but i had um i was just like casually doing too many like party drugs and stuff and i literally was behind the wheel i had i had my girlfriend at the time in the past receipt and i remember i had to i had a couple too many drinks i wasn't drunk but i had more than i normally would choose to have and still have my keys on me and i remember taking a bump this was years ago i took a bump of blow

[01:58:49] Abrielle: And i and i was like suddenly i had this coming to i mean it wasn't as like near i didn't have like people around me telling me to kill myself like i'm not trying to downplay i know this is very not the same thing but the same your experience is your experience right okay thank you for validating um i had this sudden like this little it reminds me of the movie soul just like this little thing that floated in of like i did it and i was like What the **** like what am i doing dude like why would i make this normal to just do in front of this purse like what is like i'm splitting my life with her like what am i giving to this per you know just all these profound things start sinking in and um you know just like painful for months afterwards because it just made me look at all the things that i was doing that i didn't like that i was doing but what i'm what i'm asking

[01:59:36] Abrielle: Abrielle and we can get ethereal with this and i know there's not really an answer but it's interesting to contemplate what is that what is this thing that in the human condition in within the Human experiment we have here where suddenly this little like flicker

[01:59:51] Jacob: Of something can change your perception of it's just like this little light particle floats into your brain and it says like hey turn around and look at yourself there you are and then it leaves you and then you have then it's then it's like now figure out your life on your own you know i don't i don't know what it is but it's Those are the turning points of us as people and They're those are part of the experience And i think if you don't have those things you're a shell of a person and there are definitely people we run into that are that way they've never experienced strife They've never experienced you know Something difficult they've never been too stressed out or even if they have They've never sat down and thought about it you know So i'll give you an example my brother was in a car accident and nothing bad happened he was totally Fine it was technically his fault but because we live in florida we have a no fault rule so he didn't get a ticket um there's The person who was in the accident as

[02:01:03] Jacob: Well she tried to sue for like she said her neck hurt um i don't i don't know how badly her neck Hurt um but she was alive and My brother was alive and the person in the car with my brother was alive and um my brother He had a new car and he was able to get Enough money from like when his car was Totaled and insurance gave him basically the same amount of money that his car cost so he bought a new car another new Car and i wanted him To come out of that experience completely changed like i could have killed this person i need to pay more attention i need to be more present i you know like thank goodness i'm alive all these kinds of things and He didn't he didn't come out of it like that he got a new car that my parents paid for And he

[02:02:05] Jacob: I don't think he texts and drives but like i'm pretty sure he pays attention when he drives i don't know how i haven't been in the car with him since because i'm just scared but he doesn't like have an aura of Gratitude to like the fact that he's alive And he just i talked to my dad about it and it's just he doesn't some people don't think that way some people don't like analyze the experience and Until they do though right like Like there's i feel like there's probably i'm sure we both know i don't know i'm sure we both know a couple people who have had like they're living unconsciously to some aspect or they're at least that yes yeah But they had a sudden like

[02:02:54] Jacob: Like that situation what you and i are looking for is like why didn't your brother have this sudden like little flicker of jesus why wasn't that the moment that did it for him like why wasn't that his life-changing experience but then i wonder how many moments have i had before that one moment where i'm like doing a bump of blue because i had too many tequila shots or whatever like why was that the The pre the press why was that the jumping board the and there's so many times where it's like you hear the same thing over and over again until that one time when you hear the same thing and it just hits you correctly and you're like wait a minute that's

[02:03:31] Jacob: What it means that's like my favorite part about philosophy or listening to any sort of philosophical thought is i'll find myself listening to the same lectures they're just i'm letting the youtube algorithm just like numb my mind and so i'm clicking on one i'm like i've listened to somebody else upload the same one but call it something else but i'll listen to it again and it sounds like a completely different talk because i'm at a different point in my life you know maybe six months later it could be more profound so you've apparently you've got to be ready to follow the path to actually follow the path of something you have to be you have to be ready to receive it you know like there's some how many times do you watch something that you watched as a kid and you're like oh my god all this stuff went all over my head like i had no idea and i didn't like i'm so glad i learned these things i was watching a little einsteins thing The other day i was like i watched this video when i Was younger i like i thought

[02:04:28] Jacob: Okay so let me i'll go to religion i Grew up jewish so now that i'm learning About a lot of the things that they teach jewish children i'm like that's part of who i am that's Like that's and i had no idea i like Learned that in hebrew school or in judaica or anything like that i had no idea like that's the reason i Am the way i am is wholly because i'm jewish and like i Learned all these things when i was younger but i had no idea what they meant and Now that i'm like relearning them and rehearing them and seeing how they relate to my religion i'm like oh my god This formed my personality like these Are parts of who i am and it comes from Xyz and it's just it's so crazy to me That It just it just matters when you hear it And how ready you are to receive it how well

[02:05:28] Jacob: You know yourself like you've tried on all these hats and now they fit differently and you fit differently and now you hear these things and you can try it on again and you can be like huh like maybe i can Take a little bit of this or you know it means something different or so much more or so much less you know like maybe i don't think of this as Important as i thought it was you know You know that's something i think powerful about obviously you know having these little instances of flipping your whole perception about everything and questioning everything that's of course a huge plus but i think i think our

[02:06:07] Jacob: Age group even or maybe it dude maybe it's just like how younger people are now you know we change so much because of our technology in the internet and these things like the younger generation is very different and grew up very different their perceived reality is very different than like you know a boomer aged person you know yeah trying to use boomer as an offensive term i don't mean any offense to any older people um but it's just like a generalization but So maybe our technology And our i mean i don't know i always Want to see things through the lens of like how technology is changing us but there does seem to be i mean if i didn't have technology if i didn't have all these youtube lectures and all these audio books and all these even just books even just writ literature Not lit literature writ literature uh Like i wouldn't ever i mean there was nobody in my life to ever teach me these

[02:07:04] Jacob: These sort of like look at why the way you're thinking and what why do you think about it and why is that interesting to you and so i think that our culture now our younger culture we **** change so much like every

[02:07:17] Jacob: Month like all people on my podcast and like two months later they're like i'm not even that same person i don't even like i don't want to listen to that because i don't think any of those things anymore i've just changed and i think the same thing i'll listen to myself and it'll be like dude it's a week later and i think i think differently on that and that's hard to do you know with like the internet is not forgiving they're like you're inconsistent i'm not listening to you're weird you're unsure of what you're talking about or whatever or they'll hold you to what you felt and said yeah like an interview like so you said this and i assume it to mean this and you're like i don't really fully believe that but in that context i think here's what i was talking about anyway and here's how i feel it now at this age so again we're back to where we were at the beginning we forget at all times that this life This conscious experience Is fluid it's always changing it's water

[02:08:10] Jacob: And we're moving towards evolution is behind us or whatever like pushing us we are evolution pushing us flowing through and changing Us and maybe we're just changing at a Faster rate the younger people because of technology because of the internet we're just changing at a faster rate or we're able to change or more open to change more than we were in the past um I don't know exactly the point of what i was trying to say but i think that we definitely um like with The existence of like the podcasts and audiobooks and things like that especially like reading people's memoirs And just relating they're relaying a Story and i'm relating to them and how they went through their challenges and how they got through it and how they became this author who wrote a book like we have access to that because of Technology and i'm able to see like oh they did that they think that way i don't really think that way or i do think that way or that's a great

[02:09:11] Jacob: Idea or you know i want to i want to institute those kinds of things in my life and start doing that too or i don't agree With that and i'll never raise my children that Way or you know things like that and i think Books i've been reading are great for that but it's just it's a lot of like trying on it's a lot Of i don't know that i'm sure technology Changes us yeah i'm sure technology changes us but It's because we have so much access to different people like To relate to and you know like We started i you asked me this question Last time how did i start on social media and my answer was that i started on myspace i started doing those surveys in the myspace bulletin board and it was people would post like what Color do you like and what grapefruit and what fruit are you and what you know all these things and you would just read how you relate to somebody else or like

[02:10:15] Jacob: What they answered and whether you agree or not and then you would do it and other people could see how you felt about all those questions and some of them were like 180 questions long and you're like what do you have to do in middle school that you could be sitting there for 180 questions and then do another one after the other yeah you got your msn messenger window over in the background you're swapping back in your survey i definitely did that yeah and it's just like what are you doing what are you up to how do you like oh that middle school test was hard you're just constantly relating to people and so much of the experience of Being able to reach so many people and So many personalities and see so many people's lives and we can compare ourselves to each other But we can also like try each other on we can see these

[02:11:04] Abrielle: Luxurious people with so much money and like try it on like would i like that do i want to have a lot of money would i like this type of life and then we see people who are in the trenches like reporters and stuff who go and do the hard things and try and find out the truth like do i want to do that do i want to defend a subject do i want to defend a group of people do i want to help this you know type of thing and then we see people who are ignorant and they just you know live Their lives in their own life and we see that like maybe i shouldn't be thinking of things as much maybe i should maybe i should do what they're doing maybe i should you know like not really consider xyz and we just We have so much access we can try on So much and i don't know if people Realize that they're doing that yeah i don't know i don't

[02:11:58] Abrielle: Think we realize how profound those things like a myspace survey it's this thing that's behind you know it's a cool little blue app or you know it's this cool little page that hipster and like edgy people get to Go on and there's you know you get to me for example my profile picture gets to be me laying down the train tracks and it's a black and white photo and i've got my like skeleton gloves on and they're fingerless and whatever like i get to express myself through this cool little outlet but also it's this profound thing that We get to see we're given you know the phones and Our cameras and in the internet in our laptops and stuff they're kind of like a window to see other parts of the world like we get to in our lived experience in our homes here where for hundreds and thousands of

[02:12:44] Abrielle: Years the human experience has only been like dude if you don't know him inside your community unless you're going to go on like some the organ trail and like meet all these people and experience all these different cultures along the way or whatever and all these hardships and change by those like it's a new thing to so rapidly And so quickly be able to question Or wonder or try on i love your use of That word um other people and even me with

[02:13:13] Jacob: You know when after i had that profound moment in the car where i'm like what the heck am i doing um it started leading into these this escalade of i was watching i would start watching lectures i would watch you know Sam Harris and Eric Weinstein and Brett Weinstein and Jordan Peterson and um you know all these variants of Joe Rogan all these inspiring people and i would start to take like well i like this about him i like this about him and i've always kind of been like that anyway but this internet just **** whoo gave Me nos man like i was able to just i'm easily inspired that's like one of my favorite little catch phrases like i just want to wear it on my shirt it's easily inspired that's me but i think all of us are so inspired by all these little things we're trying to build ourselves and make ourselves into all these

[02:13:56] Jacob: All these all these things so we can i don't know like just live and experience all this stuff we're trying to cram pack so much stuff into a short-lived life that we're accelerating too fast and we need to remember to slow down and be grateful for what we do have because we're so obsessed with what we don't have that it's making us think over there um But if you want to take it back if you want to bring it full circle um half circle um if you look at those

[02:14:24] Jacob: People who are talking about like the news that they watch and they're upset about you know gdp like you mentioned and whatever they're upset about like that can also just be them trying that on like i'm trying on like caring about the news and caring about politics and i see all of these people who are upset about this thing so like i think i should be upset about this thing they don't really know about it but like they see that other people are doing it so it could just be them trying it on and when you're like it doesn't make any sense like hopefully they can sometimes you do Stump people and they're like you know it doesn't make sense what i'm saying you're right i don't understand it so it's a lot of our experience is just like everyone trying each other on and in doing that figuring Out who we are what we are what we like and what we don't like yeah

[02:15:15] Abrielle: Okay because i feel like you're blowing my mind if you're like i'm thinking you know people like you and i were talking earlier about we're trying to see like we're trying to you know like what's the real you i know you're in there you know it's what happens in a lot of these situations i think because i have compassion for these people i don't think like oh you're a **** boris loon like what are you talking about you know like people come at me and what i'm seeing what i basically want to tell them is the costume you're wearing it's not you like the cost that one doesn't hey bro i know you're trying it on but what i want to say to them down in there i want to be like hey bro the outfit that you put on the costume that you're trying out you're just trying it out i get that but it's not you it's taking over you a little bit too much and i think i see The real you in there and i love you know they just don't have like

[02:16:06] Abrielle: Yeah they just don't have like something to hold on to so they're just like looking for it like a lot of people are just trying to form their baseline to figure out who they are and so they look to whatever they're consuming And they you know like if you watch the news 24 7 you're going to become a news junkie and so you just are upset about everything the news tells you should be upset about and you're just trying to find your base and a lot of that is just like once you Realize i mean i hope once you watch the news Enough you realize that like life isn't the News so many people like i'll have the my Dad is grateful for me because he watches the news all the time My dad is 70 years old and he is like the cliche like China's coming for us like i'm reading this book about china and china's china buyers yeah and so A lot he's like people in this country Are just so dumb and they're you know like they're

[02:17:08] Jacob: Yeah and they're just you know whatever Mean and uh stupid Stupid and mean and uh Whatever just like negative things about people and i'm like everyone i know is pretty great everyone i'm surrounded by everyone i see on the news yeah they're a little crazy but everyone in my real experience pretty cool i've never really encountered anyone who's like blatantly an **** like maybe they have been but it's because they're upset about whatever and in context it makes sense that they're being an **** no one's ever just literally been like Done something mean for no reason and Outrageous and it can be that i'm just not in the Areas where those people are existing but for the news to make it Seem like that's the general population I don't really agree with that because my idea of the general population the people who i experience the most are all pretty great people wow yeah i

[02:18:08] Jacob: Mean our perception really is flipped by what we're constantly looking at like if your window from your home is you look out and it's like all right i'm gonna go you know what we call the news now it's like okay this is the news and you watch it's on msnbc and it's on you know fox or whatever the news networks are like What that is if you remove the word news It's a window to look at people that you Don't like or it's a window to look at things you don't like about people or it's a window to look at things that other people are saying are wrong about the bad other and so In choosing to uh yeah Uh this i think it's i think it's plato's cave uh have you heard of i could be butchering this and i would love if i had a jamie look it up leo's cave but uh it's essentially like the

[02:19:00] Jacob: The story it's this uh kind of like philosophical old story um these people are looking like their whole life and their whole community and just through different generations they grow up and there's a rock wall

[02:19:15] Abrielle: And on the other side of it is a fire and so everything they see is shadow they don't know about fire they haven't discovered fire yet but everything they see is these dancing moving photos on this giant wall and that's been their whole community and they stay here and this is for hundreds of years or whatever i'm butchering this but you get the picture and all they know is shadow and then somebody finally like yeah i'm gonna go i'm gonna leave the cave i'm gonna go check out what's on the other side and they go and they're like oh there's a fire over here oh you guys what our gods are actually just our shadows from our hands moving like Whatever and everybody in your community you can you can't like you guys come over here look no it's see it's when i move my hand and make the butterfly and that's what we call our gods and whatever the whole so what they're doing their Window to reality is based off of like what they perceive Right here in front of them and so what happens when we watch like

[02:20:09] Abrielle: These obsessive amounts of news i think is That's what we see like we're just watching shadows and Making that our perception this is the reality of What's happening in the world these shadows are the only thing that exists and then when someone comes along and they're like bro no look at like there's literally a fire and it's just shadow puppets like trust me it's okay this is it's actually not that bad this **** was more to life than just the shadow people like they don't want to hear it because their whole reality their whole identity too is wrapped up in accepting you know if You if you grow up 45 years you're an elder of a

[02:20:46] Abrielle: Community for 45 years and you're teaching every child like here's the great god of dionysius and he's expressed through this long tall shadow or whatever you know and that's what your reality is you don't know anything else someone comes along and they're like bro none of the things you believe are real follow me i'll show you nobody wants to get up like nobody wants to be like all right let's unwind everything i want to do that won't be scary or maybe everything i know is wrong yeah Maybe everything i know is wrong nobody wants to ask that holy **** what a painful thing i had an experience the other day where it was such a i felt so dissociated i don't even know if it's that people are obsessed with the news or like obsessively watching it but they do just associate their entire view of our country and the World through the news like the news shows us The majority and what everything is going on rather than us looking at like our experience because we don't

[02:21:46] Abrielle: Experience everything so we like look to other sources and we see on the news and the news should be a pretty good source of our general experience as americans and we should be able to look at the news and see like this is what other americans are experiencing this is what's going on in the world maybe not the case but recently i had the experience um i think it was when the um capitol Building was being stormed i saw that on the news or literally like someone sent it to me because i haven't been watching the news and someone sent it to me and i was like oh **** like people going nuts people really go nuts and then i put my phone down and it like left my head because like in my apartment things are cool Like there's i'm not in washington there's literally nothing i can do it's it doesn't affect me like i it If i wanted to be upset about it like as upset as i could get about it nothing is going to change so like i'm

[02:22:42] Abrielle: Just not going to burden myself with those feelings and so i saw it i forgot about it my boyfriend comes over and he opens the door and he's like it's **** crazy out there and i'm like i'm looking out the door like what's going on is there yeah i'm like looking around like are you being followed what's happening yeah i'm like what's happening and he's like no i mean like what's happening in dc and i'm like oh like hold on a second

[02:23:10] Jacob: Okay who cares I mean like not who cares but like Like how does it i was i was so taken Aback by him being like it's crazy out there and i'm like what's going on like in our experience what's happening and he's just like no not us but it's you know I recall what i did that same day Which this is i mean uh i mean this is um like a month ago at this point about a month um if not exactly a month um

[02:23:39] Abrielle: I remember i read some stuff about it or like people started posting on social media and then so i you know i looked up a couple things and i saw a couple of videos and this is as it was still going on and i was like mother of pearl like what this is crazy and i didn't continue like obsessing about it like i did kind of my information i'm like you know it's this kind of well this another thing whatever but i did go right downstairs and i interrupted my roommate who was Who was working he works remotely and he's a coder and i was like bro have you seen like what's going on over in washington dc and we kind of talked about it so there is a part of us that feels the Need to know because biologically We've learned we want to connect but we also need to watch out for threats man like okay if we're in tribes we've

[02:24:28] Abrielle: Got less than 150 people in our tribe and we have um some nomad who just wanders and we know him oh yeah that's greg we see him every couple years and he drops off until we sell him our fur or whatever and he comes and he's like there's a pack of 50 hyenas and they're about i don't know three miles back they were heading our way You know i don't just let you know just letting you know we'd be like oh sound the alarm like there's hyenas coming you know like it's a part within us that we've learned through culture and in through like our being of who we are as human society but i guess you're it's Being kidnapped now it's being it's being it's being taken and thrown In our faces and it's being used and weaponized against us our because we want to look out for our family sorry i interrupted you but we want it we're trying to protect if i'm a mother and i genuinely think

[02:25:17] Abrielle: That people in shirts and ties are going to unzip their face and they're actually a reptile and they're going to kill my kids if that's legitimately what i think of course i'm going to react dramatically to things like in these the news and all these like q anon And like all these rabbit holes on youtube and all these things articles and whatever and fake news whatever it convinces us convinces us that we Need to be terrified it convinces us that we need to watch out i will say there's definitely i didn't Realize it but now that you're saying this i'm sure there was a part of that experience where i saw what was happening and i had To think about whether it was a threat to me and i when i realized it wasn't a direct Threat like no one's coming to storm my house my family's okay everyone in my life is okay like It's bad that's happening obviously i feel for the people it's happening to but like there's nothing i can directly do and It's not coming for me so then i can relax a bit and i didn't

[02:26:22] Abrielle: Realize but you're right i think that's something that like that was a thought that crossed my mind that is it a threat to me no okay we can be

[02:26:30] Jacob: Okay it's not happening to me but i think That our culture right now That's not what happens i think that we can we can recognize i mean the like we're very smart you know We do understand like okay i get that this isn't outside my window But i think that we try to figure out

[02:26:54] Abrielle: What could this mean does this mean that the government is doing this does this mean that now there's gonna be riots in portland and i live closer to porn there's gonna be riots in seattle i live closer to seattle and whatever our wheels get turning and then we think our actions are like we're basically doing preventative maintenance we're like stocking up our bunkers by like making sure this **** ain't coming at us but every single day these news stations because it's what sells and they're not even just like the evil cabal who's trying to sell it's literally algorithms that are working they're working us at this point the algorithms are changing what we're doing and what we're saying especially news anchors and **** they're telling us like here's what you should be afraid of and it's formulating these big hypotheses of uh within people's minds of how things Are going to play out in the next whatever amount of years and like I love using the drunken the Dunkin trestle concept of uh i've said this multiple times before on the podcast but there's probably some dude right now

[02:27:55] Abrielle: Sitting next to a beautiful waterfall who has no idea how pissed off he's supposed to be right now yeah like it is that but then there we have this Very intelligent thing we have this like really cool thing where i can see exactly what's going on a like a live stream i can see what's going on in china right now in a live stream and they can see what's going on in america right now and if like it's interesting but it's Also there's a part of me that's like making you know if i was watching it like if i saw a video being streamed of them They you know this is a corner that i don't Want to be in but of china launching some rocket at us or something we'd be like oh **** like i'm the one who saw it like i need to let everybody know i need to make sure all my family and friends know that we're about to die because there's a nuke coming or whatever direct threat yeah we have we so

[02:28:44] Abrielle: We have the inability we have an inability to know whether things are direct threats or not right now like how can we As a society as a culture as um you know again i just like Saying brothers and sisters like we're all in this **** thing together like americans even like how do us as americans decipher like is this a threat is this Something that i need to attack is this something i need to stamp out is this something that's important like what's important how does this how does this thing that's coming i think when and how will it ever possibly affect my daily lived actual life

[02:29:20] Jacob: Yeah and there's so much of like How much of the news is what's actually Happening you know like maybe these bad Things that we see are happening aren't you know like they're just being portrayed as bad or the other side is making them seem Worse than they are or they are happening along with Other things that we're not seeing or They are happening with things that we could change if we had saw them or you know just like our entire experience is skewed and so i was having a conversation the other day with um i was out at breakfast and we're Sitting there and it's beautiful day outside during Coven beautiful day there we're sitting right Next to a railing we were sitting outside because she brought her dog so i'm sitting there with her handsome Little puppy and across from her and we're both like Very healthy people and everyone in the restaurant is like properly spaced out but like having a great saturday morning people In the park just playing watching a dog like run Around this little girl and just have so much fun this family

[02:30:33] Jacob: Have so much fun and i'm just like looking around and i'm like this doesn't seem like the world that the news says it is you know like this doesn't This is great like this is a beautiful Life and everyone else around me seems to be enjoying it i don't know what's going on in their lives but like everyone's smiling and everyone's talking and everyone's complimenting the dog and everyone's just like happy to be outside like it doesn't it's not the reality That i'm seeing on the news you know yeah it's so So how do we get less caught up with this just sack of misinformation and the sack of i Mean basically i think what we need to get to as a culture is we need to stop believing any of that **** like we need to i mean like It's vastly unhelpful to be

[02:31:29] Jacob: Most of the things that we care about on a day-to-day basis if you're someone who watches the news if you're someone who's like even really up in like pop culture like i even i'm someone who i really like i like pop culture i like studying kind of like what's going on right now what's going on oh like what did travis scott say what did rihanna say what did you know uh you know whoever i I there is an enjoyable aspect to that But there's something in our brains that we don't seem to remember like this is just what a person with an agenda not Always evil just an agenda of their own life of how they want to act things out and do things and achieve their own goals in their life they just happen to be the ones that are in this location with a camera in the networks which are companies that we watch are choosing to put them on their network that's not reality that's just Here's a way in which you could see the world and we're believing that is like this is truth and everything else is fake news like

[02:32:25] Jacob: That an angle that's a camera angle bro Not everything you remind me of the difference between the medium and the message you know do you know what i'm talking about i don't um so the medium Is so the message is the content and the Medium is how the content is delivered and so what you're saying is like this You have a person who has a message but the message is being delivered through producers in a camera through their like famous life of their experience and like that's the medium that it's and you're receiving it like on your cell phone in your experience of life like The medium is how you receive it and the message is the actual context or the actual like what you should be receiving and so Maybe that's i've never thought About it so maybe that's like a Something to consider that like the Medium of the news is not the message because i

[02:33:28] Jacob: Have been ignoring the news and i don't think that's healthy either like you don't want to just ignore what's going on and so i'm trying to find this balance of like watching the news but watching with a grain of salt you know like understanding like this is what's going On how do i feel about it before i see how Someone else feels about it like what is the medium i'm receiving it from And like what's the actual message i should get out of it you know Yeah i mean i feel like when you said that because i find myself saying that too you know i don't really absorb much news but then i also go through phases of like dude i can't just be totally oblivious to what's going on in the world But i kind of wonder if maybe I should be more oblivious like me like i said we're you know you got to understand what's going on in the world well the people who they've now proven for many years the

[02:34:24] Jacob: People who are telling us what's going on in the world and that which we should care about they're not i'm not gonna say they're Evil i'm not gonna say they're bad they're a product of this like late Stage capitalism like it's the way the way The definition of news in like what it Should be is not the same definition of what news actually is like what is news to us and i could

[02:34:52] Abrielle: Even say i can expand like maybe it's not the exact same word it's not the same terminology but like i legitimately get my news i listen to podcasts i listen to youtube channels i have like a lot the majority of the news that i get in like the logical people that i listen to is from two evolutionary biologists who live in portland and like they talk about what's going on in the world but other than that like i don't really i don't really mess with like the news networks but we have people who do mess with the news networks that we have people who do their entire reality their entire view they're looking through one of those kaleidoscopes you know and like Because what they see is completely different reality than what i see and i think we have to recognize how much that actually paints and controls and affects and Pulls our biological emotions because our emotions are actually felt in our bodies our like their uh you know Our emotions are experienced in our Body rather i guess and we're able to you

[02:35:50] Abrielle: Know look at virtual reality it's an extension of what this stuff is we're able to put on headsets we're able to look through these windows of technology and it's able to Affect our biological meat vehicle here And we have to we have to ask ourselves Like if we're constantly feeling stressed out because of what we're seeing through the windows we're looking through we've got to be like damn should i chill on looking through these windows a little bit like or

[02:36:15] Abrielle: Is there a way to i can glance through windows like with some sort of governor where i only give myself 15 minutes a day to look through these windows because i know that i'm going to want to protect my family and i'm going to get like addicted to making sure there's no missiles in the sky so i can protect my kids you know it's i'm trying to bring compassion to the people who are so stressed out and so they think that everybody's out to get them and they think that like china is trying to **** kill us and because i don't even know at this point like who knows it's all like it's all so complicated but they tell us you can like you can you see china and like can Trust them but like china's also like putting on a facade and so much propaganda and they like hide everything from us and it's just like i don't i don't know yeah i mean but if we

[02:37:00] Abrielle: Were in china and we're watching there i mean everything we've been told i've never been to china myself everything we've been told is you know the you know like they are a you know The chinese communist party but What we know of as communists Is represented in our like Cocky american attitude of capitalism's The best way you all need this kind of democracy you know like We're so stuck up inherently as western that's just how people with western minds think like we are kind of like our view of things is better we can't look at benefits from other Ways of running you know civilizations so Jesus christ like what a what a wild Thing we're experiencing here you know like what a crazy really crazy thing I think it goes back to the technology you're talking about how much how much should i expose myself to this window that i'm looking through but we have so much technology we have so many windows to look into and it can just be overwhelming and you

[02:38:10] Abrielle: Can say i'll watch the news with a grain of salt like i'll understand this with a grain of salt but like do

[02:38:16] Jacob: You watch all of the podcasts that you watch of the grain of salt do you watch every youtube video with a grain of salt do you watch everything that you experience through every little window you look into every encounter you have with a person Like they tell you one thing and their trust you trust them so you believe them like should you believe them is what they're saying correct or is what they're saying based on all the windows that they're looking into where does it come from and like at what point at what like how do we navigate you know there are so many windows there are so many and it's i don't know how to get the People who are watching the news all the time i don't know how to get them less stressed because they seem to live and i'm just looking at like older people because like my dad his friends my mom her friends things that those people do just like

[02:39:08] Jacob: Paying attention to the news all the time like even when you know you shouldn't do it like tons of people when all the um masks stuff started coming out like just early march tons of people told me like i've had to stop watching the news just because like So much mask drama there's so much drama about kova there's so much this there's so much that and just like at some point it's exhausting it is exhausting yeah how much of like The how much of the news is news and then How much of it is just like repetitive i agree with you having a like a time limit because at what point Are we just gonna keep talking about the Same person did the same thing and it's so Frustrating like are you gonna tell me what's happening like happening in the world and like people Are generally more harmful to each other maybe i need To look out for that you know like um shootings are going up In your area like oh my god maybe i should be more careful about that until like i want to hear that stuff i

[02:40:14] Jacob: Want to know what's going on i want to know that like yeah nukes aren't being launched at us right now i wanna know what's going on but like do i wanna hear About someone who went out with a mask or without a mask i mean don't care do i wanna you know just like I care about these things and like it's good to know but like at what point do you have enough stuff that's good to know you know like how much of it is just Just stop like So much It's hard that like so much is good to Know like you should be informed but also How much of being informed is actually Helping you like how much time am i spending Wondering how i feel about donald trump Whereas that actually doesn't affect my Life you know like i think it's probably Most healthy to just not ever think about the **** like yeah that is what i mean that we're drowning in information drowning in information and i think

[02:41:27] Jacob: Because of all this information because we have all these different companies who are saying this one's the most important no this one's the most important and then we have these algorithms who are saying this is the most important because this will get more people to watch it and that we're like okay yeah listen to that one's the most important then where we're fighting it's like we only have 24 hours in a day i mean it's hard enough to get done what we really want to do i mean like i think like we get so much crammed in nowadays like i'll watch you know multiple lectures or like listen to multiple podcasts i'll get you know listen to a ton of music get my own personal work done i'll get workouts done like you can get so much done in a day but it's exhausting like it's tiring and you have to almost filter out like okay i just don't have time for this i don't have time to listen to this like i guess i hope that we exhaust ourselves On this news in some sense and or they realize

[02:42:21] Jacob: Um like where we're maddening our own Society like the news Abraham like what would you and i say like if we had like Like snap of a thanos finger and i've got you and i are at the head of 50 executives and they're like the people who make the **** calls and news networks or the they're the investors or whatever and we're like listen y'all you don't see what you're doing but you are fabricate like you're Ripping apart the fabric of our society's lived experience and like ability to relate to one another here's what you can't be doing anymore like what would we say to them like i think there's a lot of it comes from like there needs to be news happening on this network at all times like in case anyone tunes in and i just like if there's not news Then there's nothing to be on like Black screen please like unless but it's Hard because like people tune in at different times so you

[02:43:27] Abrielle: Always want to be talking about the same things like did you hear about this thing that happened this morning that you weren't awake to hear about at 5 00 a. m like now you're here and we want to talk about it but if you've been watching since 5 a. m you're like oh my god they've already talked about this like just stop so i don't know the answer but i think a lot of it a lot of it comes from like they want to just keep they want to keep you informed but they want to keep talking so that there's more of a show and more money to make and more viewership and as long as they can keep the news going all day then they can have people watching all day but right like if say that like The news happens from 10 a. m to 12 p. m you watch it for two Hours a day here's all the things that are going on thanks we'll see you tomorrow if there's like a news break like in

[02:44:13] Abrielle: Your area there's a mass shooting right now like maybe that pops up on your phone and you like see it but there's no like obsessing over the news and i'll but then you know like People want things to say in the news cycle and some things get skipped over and stuff like that but i don't know like Do we need it to stay there like it's Hard to say because like we don't want to just pass over you know bad things that Happen like shootings that happens in anywhere we don't want to just like Forget about them and then keep moving on with our lives and not care about the people that it happened to but also like Do we want to keep dwelling on it and i don't know if it's dwelling like if we keep thinking about it and we keep addressing it then we can address the issue and hopefully solve a problem but like there are other things

[02:45:05] Abrielle: That we just keep addressing and like nothing's going to be solved by it and it's not even worth continuing to address so like i don't know maybe if i had the answer that would be just like scheduled news times like the newspaper you read the newspaper and you're like oh **** all this stuff happened yesterday okay read it got it yep

[02:45:24] Jacob: Cool next day here's my name can you Throw it in the break room so someone else can maybe read it yeah and we can we can like talk about it and stuff and we can try and figure out the problem and if it's something as insane as like Injustice and things like that like we can band together and continue the conversation but for it to be like nothing Is front page news every day or That's not true but most things aren't Front page news every day like you don't see like biden As president biden is president biden is president there's constantly like something new that's happening and so like For the news networks to just continue replaying the same things over and over like they eventually have to talk About something and so they just talk about nothing and like that's the part that's not news and so i just like just turn it off Turn off the show like if there's no news today there's no news like The groundhog didn't see his shadow then Okay thanks for letting me know hold on yeah like

[02:46:33] Jacob: I don't i don't know the answer i don't know how to get people to be less stressed about it and i don't know i don't It's just such like a grain of salt thing you just and that comes it comes back to understanding like you have to understand yourself to understand what matters to you and to Be okay with like if you see on the news that I don't know a lot of people are acting this way and believing this way and storming the capitol building don't surround yourself with people who are ridiculous that would do something so crazy like that and don't Be the type of person that would encourage that and don't be the type of person that would do that and encourage the people around you to Be understanding and positive people And the people around you won't do that and if everyone around them and if everyone convinces one person Around them to not be that type of person hopefully

[02:47:32] Jacob: We would have a better society of better people you know like it starts with us i completely agree self-sovereignty is the way and it's like the only option that we have it's just each individual needs to look at their own train of thought and look at their own addictions to social media to news to these devices And i'm saying that as someone who's very addicted to social media i definitely am always on this damn thing too you and i both you know it yeah 100 we Talk about this all the time um but i think I mean because as much as we want to say Like hey snap out of it like you got to help your friend snap out of it Abrielle these people literally think That like they think that the this entire democracy is being like the people who stormed the capital a lot of them at that time anyway they legitimately had the feeling they had the belief this is true like our democratic system is so Corrupt that like the person the only real honest person that we've ever had in office has now been they've been frauded out of

[02:48:35] Jacob: The election like they legitimately believe that like there's this evil all this stuff going on and **** i don't even know at this point maybe they're right it was like exactly their reaction is Like what i'm what i'm pointing out i think is like these like a lot of the conservative people often are people who are trying to actually protect the more liberal they're trying to protect the softer people they're saying like here's a threat bro and i ain't the type to turn away from a threat so i'm gonna get this line you go back in the hut you know like i got us and so They actually think that they're protecting their families in a certain way but When you look at those videos when you look at a lot of those videos from the capitol day like the what made everything really weird to me what made me not believe that they actually believe it is the **** sitting with their feet up on their phones or they're on instagram live they're taking photos like the guy taking a photo with the security guard um people chanting weird stuff and this

[02:49:36] Jacob: Is where this is a cool jump i think you'll like this uh hopefully i can explain it correctly Eric Weinstein has this proposition um uh he explained it really well actually he was on glenn beck a couple weeks ago and he's basically he talks about kayfabe and kayfabe if you don't know you probably know uh oh uh it's the thing in In wrestling like WWE wwf The like that type of wrestling Not ufc but it's the it's the acting part of Wrestling like when you go you know dwayne the rock johnson he goes out he doesn't come out as dwayne johnson he comes out as the rock it's this character he's created for this second reality it's LARPing it's amp guard it's you we have foam Swords and we're playing the battle What's going on and Eric Weinstein explains this again way better than i can but what's actually going on is our WWE Version of what we think we're supposed to be doing in society is now running us it's now it's a it's a

[02:50:36] Jacob: Runaway train like these people at the capitol they're doing this kayfabe thing those **** were LARPing the state capital and what's going on imagine you and i are in the ring Abrielle and we're fighting and we're doing cafe and we're putting on a show i'm doing my secret moves do you smell what the rock is cooking we're putting yeah come on pumping up the crowd people are pumped and we do a thing and i go to armbar you and i mess up and i hit you

[02:51:04] Abrielle: And i puncture one of your lungs but we still got these people they're looking at us we're performing we're in this world where you can't just you can't break character on stage bro like get out of here this is this is happening you're getting paid for this is what reality is right now you don't you don't show any pain until you're backstage and the fans can't see you well i've punctured your lung now and there's this thing that's going on in our reality with our politics that we're running the lens of our actual um daily lived experience through Politics through this kayfabe version this WWE version of our Actual reality it's not ufc it's WWE It's acting you can't even say to me Like look me really in the eyes in where in the ring you can't be like my lungs punctured like we have to have it my lungs punctured jake please stop turn

[02:51:52] Abrielle: Off your character like take off your **** cape and spandex for a second my lungs punctured i'm literally going to die like you gotta act still you're here like there dude there was literally some there was a woman who was murdered or killed she was shot on the capitol riots and uh eric talks about this too again for the for the third time he explains way better than i can but like he talks about this woman basically like runs out of gun like she's clearly sees the gun like She knows what's going on and then she gets killed her life is Taken because she's in this reality of this Kayfabe WWE like hey we're putting on this show this is the politics thing this is the in it's the this is just zooming out From that like what i just explained this WWE k fabe thing that is what we are stuck in As a culture but we're unaware to

[02:52:42] Abrielle: We're unaware that we're in it for one and we're unaware how to break it we're unaware how abriel could possibly communicate to me without breaking character that her lung is punctured and she's **** dying like the human thing the thing that doesn't this doesn't matter if the human thing and the lungs aren't working like that part is getting broken that part's getting hurt we're like hurting our real we need to pause the show we need To be like you guys i'm sorry everyone like we're dying something's going on here we've got to take an intermission like we got to slow down this politics thing but we're vastly unable To see it i'm sorry to go off on that on that sprint no i think i want to do it i love it i love it i love what you're saying and i think that's what's going on is that we are all in this social media And all in this news media and on twitter and instagram And facebook and just like

[02:53:36] Abrielle: Acting the way that we think we're supposed to act and how society wants us to act without stopping and realizing like what we Are as human beings and how we actually feel i think that's so that's such a great um Observation i think i think that's what it is i don't know

[02:53:55] Jacob: Yeah i mean that like i feel like that's the Closest i do i think are you cool with me using this abriel for my making sickness series are you we can talk about this after but like i would like to use this as episode two because i feel like we kind of did expand on some good thoughts There i don't know what it is but sure yeah Basically it's just i explained like just basically it was me and my friend spencer and i was going to do some solo ones and like maybe have other guests just like a part series of just trying to figure out what the hell is going on and how can we solve it without pointing fingers making bad others how can we solve it as Like this is our culture these are our brothers and sisters these are our friends like why are our uncles like uh insufferably hard to talk to now because

[02:54:42] Jacob: They're so obsessed with this person why are people so woke that they don't like they're so offended before you even get to the start of a conversation you know we're so far-fetched because we're in our leotards man we're in our wrestling boots it's uh and it's even People who aren't on social media like the effect of it's social media And news media like everything because social media bleeds into news media but it also bleeds into just real life and you know like my parents Aren't on social media but they absorb the news and they hear from my brother and i about what's you know like we teach my mom what a meme is and what the popular like the bernie mittens meme and i just send them tons of it because they don't see it and i'm like bernie's a meme bernie's a meme and my mom's like i know what this means now and so Like it comes out yeah Look at that i know what that means yeah And so it comes it lives in our phones

[02:55:43] Jacob: And it should stay in our phones but it comes out because we're trying to live these identities that we think we should be doing and living and we see these You know like even people Who look like they're benefiting us like gary vee uh grant cardone who's tony robbins like We see these things and we're like oh **** i should be an entrepreneur i should be working on myself i should be doing all these things you know like **** this person who's putting me down like i need to care about myself i need to love myself i need to do all this and this first and then we bring that out into our experience with other people and we're like you should care about yourself put yourself first bro like

[02:56:26] Jacob: Think about like you need to pull yourself up and be confident be this because like we're hearing it from the internet and the other people and we're really just trying it on like we're really just seeing this and you know trying to act like that's how we're supposed to act you know like we see these people we look up to them and um like r. i. p um kobe bryant like the Mama mentality we see this and we're like we should have the mom of mentality like wake up early do our **** never give up all this kind of stuff but like if you don't have the discipline and the type personality to be that way Be living the mamba mentality can be a Lie for you like and then you just feel like

[02:57:10] Jacob: You're being fake and then you're just you're you feel it's overwhelming because you feel like you have to do all these things and finish them to completion and all this kind of stuff and like maybe that's not who you are and not to say that's right or wrong like for some people it doesn't work i know like in myself i call it my Disciplined demon like even if i don't want to work i work

[02:57:33] Abrielle: Even if i don't want to go to the gym i go even if i don't want to do something like even if i don't want to wake up like something pulls me out of bed and makes me go like it's my disciplined demon like i can't stop i can't quit even if i don't like what i'm doing i have to keep going and it just if i'm upset no matter what's going on in my life like i have to push myself i will keep going i'll always keep going it's just my disciplined demon some people don't have that and some people like look at me and they're like you're a hard-working successful like you're doing great for where you are like i need to try on some of the things that you're doing and they get stressed out because that's not who they are and like we see these things we Take our social media into the world we Take we're just seeing so much influence that

[02:58:21] Abrielle: We try and take it all into the world and we're just a bunch of people acting like who we think we should be acting instead of trying to figure out who we actually are right yeah no that's pretty powerful i think that's exactly what's going on too it's like um we fail to realize that we truly Are at different spots in our own paths but That we have our own individual paths like what works for me i'm always trying to like with the podcast i'm trying to always push people into like what's near you like what makes sense to you like what's going to heal you like i'll explain hey you know here's what like meditation worked for me yoga worked for me cbd cannabis like these are things that worked for me and i'll explain them but i hope that what happens is people look for what's something like that in my own life not exactly that you know like what's like instead of trying to be here we go

[02:59:15] Jacob: Instead of trying to be the best you have to just try to be your best you know that's really simple as it is we like you know look at one of the most common words in our young culture now goat greatest of all time goat like this is the goat like he's the best He's the best at what he does in his field but then you're like how do i compare me to these entire people in this field like maybe you don't even **** belong in that field so why are you comparing yourself like you what you got to do is put your head down and get to work and then wherever you land is wherever you land and then people can call you the goat in your field but that's not up to you to call yourself you know in a way yeah I think there's a lot of um like there's this push right now to be an entrepreneur and like you should start your own business and be a hustler and do all these kinds of things but like if we have all these leaders

[03:00:07] Jacob: If we have so many leaders in society Like who are you leading if you have no followers some people are not meant to be entrepreneurs some people are not meant to be leaders and that's totally okay like some people either aren't Built for it aren't ready for it or just That's not their place sometimes being a Follower brings other followers and brings a movement you know you don't have to be a leader some you don't have to have your own business being an employee is not like the worst Thing that can happen to you know like employment comes with benefits sometimes But i mean like there's this push For what i feel like our generation to Have our own companies be independent contractors run our own businesses become these entrepreneurs make our own money make a living for ourselves and it's just like Sometimes that's not what you Should do for yourself and You have to figure out when you say should that indicates an expectation so what you should do for yourself you have to find out what that means

[03:01:21] Jacob: Like what is right for you what feels right for you and it's just a lot of like trying it on If you're an entrepreneur for years and like nothing is working and you work for someone else and you are living a great life feeling great maybe that's what's right for you know and there are just there are some people who are just lazy like innately lazy and maybe instead of kicking them in the ass Maybe we just allow them to be lazy like I don't want to condone that ever like The weak and lazy part of society i'm definitely the first one to be like kick yourself in the ass let's go you know like i'm a hard person like that get your discipline demon we're going yeah exactly stay hard like I fight between stay hard and be compassionate like so stay hard So it's just you know but We make fun of people who are sheep but There would be no shepherds if there were no sheep you know I think i think there's also Some wolves and shepherds clothing going On too i yeah i mean i think that We

[03:02:37] Jacob: I don't know i mean i guess i just want to say like we need to follow our own paths You know we need to challenge ourselves but we need to follow our own paths i think garyvee does do a good job of like he posts plenty of videos i'll see you know he has a lot of entrepreneur like encouraging of people like you know bro just like eat top ramen and work a Lot and uh and then he'll have other times where he's like if you don't cut it then you don't cut it like listen what's going on you're not meant to be co if you're not meant to be a ceo you know maybe and the thing is i Think it's important to point out bro maybe you're a right-hand man like maybe yeah maybe you're the steve wozniak you ain't steve jobs maybe you don't have to be like the genius brick like maybe you could be

[03:03:22] Jacob: His homie who gets his tech in the right places or well i don't know i don't know steve wozniak's entire role with steve jobs but he was he was one of the ones that helped facilitate it like me i'm a creative person but when it comes to like business and like getting things perfectly like i Struggle with all the business stuff you know yeah You got to like recognize kind of who you are like what i mean there's things that i don't want to you know stick my head in the sand and say i'm this forever like i'm not good at business side of things i'm just good at creating and i'll never be good at it because i do want to improve these things and try but i'm not going to like try for the rest of my life and never admit to myself man i really never got that rocking and rolling that was just something that i was trying that was a i was trying to fit myself into this puzzle and i never was that shape i was never

[03:04:10] Jacob: That shape and i couldn't admit it to myself so true that's so true so much of it is just Like Maybe it's just like a lack of authenticity we're all just trying to be this fake version of who we think we should be rather than trying to fit into who we actually are and not the undertaker we're trying to be stone cold steve austin we're trying to be the rock and we're just dwayne johnson's Oh i'm embarrassed that i just said that actually but that's okay i can identify with dwayne johnson that's fine i'll be him any day i identify as a Dwayne johnson don't assume my in my status yeah no but I think that's so real like and that goes along with all

[03:04:58] Abrielle: The surface level stuff that we're experiencing because we're just experiencing the shell of the person that they think they're supposed to be right now they're upset about what they think they're supposed to be upset about they know what they think they're supposed to know they're involved in all the channels they think they're supposed to be involved in they follow who everyone else follows who they think they're supposed to be following because we're all just trying these things on we're going with the collective movement everyone else is doing this thing maybe i should be doing this thing too and that's like a thing of human nature as we follow the crowd we think we are supposed to follow the crowd when we really need to take a step back and be like what is all this stuff doing for me what is it building in myself how am i building a personality around this what is my identity becoming from this

[03:05:41] Abrielle: You know right yeah like what am i trying to get from this what am i trying to gain from this like maslow's hierarchy of needs am i is this how i is this how i learned that I get love is this how i learned that i belong is i'm is i'm one of these people and i agree with these things and i post these things so i can get these likes from my echo chambers or my tribalistic group You know i think that we you know Just like a young kid you talk about childhood trauma or something they talk about um or even maybe not even trauma but

[03:06:11] Jacob: If you when you were a girl you threw Fits and then that was the only time that your mom would pick you up and take you to the side and say i love you honey it's okay i know i've been showing the your brother a lot of attention and i know that you were the only child and whatever and you're like oh it feels good mom's picking me up oh yeah but then if you know an emotion becomes a mood becomes a personality if you hold on to that then you could be this grown adult version of like all right how do i get love i throw a fit so mom picks me up and says she loves me and then now you're one of those people who like every time you get drunk you beat the **** out of your boyfriend or something you know Yeah no it's oh my gosh i don't Know you had me thinking of something that i lost it but it's just so much of um Okay the mood becomes a personality but you can turn it around in that like if you what is the first

[03:07:05] Jacob: Thing what comes before mood motion okay so gratefulness So you start with something gratitude like um building the practice of gratitude what i've been doing is i write down like one thing i'm thankful for and it's just one thing i've seen people write five things write a whole journal write three things whatever but i just pick like one thing i'm thankful for and it doesn't even have to be something big it can be something like you know like i'm just Thankful i'm i have a cell phone and i'm able to talk to you today like literally just anything like thank goodness you know i was able to eat a great meal today just Whatever it is and just doing that more Being in that i have the emotion of gratitude from that one experience that puts me in a better mood of more gratitude and it's become my personality To be more grateful like just that little practice instead

[03:08:02] Abrielle: Of when i see things and i look at the negative about it instead i look more for like what's the good and how can i be grateful for it and yes this bad thing is happening but like look at all the great things that are also happening around us you know that's just that's now the way my mind works and that's part of my personality yeah i really like that i actually want to add on top of that everything you just said pristine but i think or not about but just add The word practice onto it for me a

[03:08:31] Abrielle: Gratitude practice like i have a friend who we were just talking about he's like you know i he doesn't fully believe i don't think he has like a religious denomination or whatever but he's like he's like lately when i lay down in bed like the last couple months has been helping me a lot with stress i pray i just i go over the things that i'm grateful for and i it doesn't pray as in like god please give me these things or whatever he just kind of talks to you know whoever might be listening in his head or you know whatever and he brings up gratitude and he brings up you know things that he's excited about that are going to happen in his life and when he says it helps him a lot and so i think a gratitude practice is Very helpful and i think we can all benefit from that instead of spending you know uh 45 of your waking hours looking Through the window of like catastrophic events that and as Msnbc has told you that are important you need to look around and look like

[03:09:23] Abrielle: Your lens needs to be just your eyes and your window needs to be your eyes you know to look around and say like what am i grateful for like wow like what a what a blessing that i have like a podcast where i can have these open conversations what a blessing that i have this room like what like what a what a wonderful spot for a creator like me to be able to make art here like wow i have like you know very expensive dj equipment and like i you know i know how to use it wow like i'm so grateful for that so i think a practice of like noticing Oh i've been in a bad mood or i've been watching a lot of news or ooh i've been whatever and then instead saying i need to negate that i need to um Do less of that and do more of this and the gratitude just being grateful for the things in your surroundings and then one more thing um meta loving kindness meditation so

[03:10:12] Jacob: You can learn this Sam Harris has a has the app waking up um it's i think it's like 114 a year but if all you have to do if you want it for free um is you just you just email them and No questions asked they'll give you the app the app for a free year so waking up app and he has a whole um helped me greatly because i am someone who gets caught in obsessive loops so uh meta practice you literally go and it's a 10 minute meditation and you focus on your breathing and um and then you slowly just bring up

[03:10:42] Jacob: Uh you know people in your life like you know you bring up someone like you don't have a complicated relationship with you bring up just like wow what's one of my good friends and then you just kind of oh try to like visualize them try to think about like what is you know your good childhood buddy like name him cool yeah he's naming your head and you're like oh yeah i love that **** like he's awesome you know we've had some good times together maybe think of some memories and you think of you start envisioning your friends smiling you know and the guy in meditation walks you through these sort of things all right bring another person in your life like um you don't go for anybody difficult if you've dealt with any trauma or anything like that can come later but um and it calms you and so what happens in these is you actually like you'll have kind of releases in your body of like huh and you'll kind of feel these rushes of Of warmth like it's and these are biochemical responses happening like so you can practice gratitude and feel

[03:11:35] Jacob: Physical changes in your body whereas You know when we're mad there's a physical change in our body we get all tensed up the same thing we get when we're cold our shoulders hunch up i mean huh when you're mad these things happen you're allowing a physical fear response to happen within your body by **** fox news but you're not willing To sit down for 10 minutes a day and Allow the thoughts of the people who have brought love in you your ability to be grateful for them to bring them up and it really um yeah basically Meta loving kindness meditation it's fantastic i highly recommend it for anybody you literally feel inner releases and in

[03:12:16] Abrielle: Inner warmth um sometimes they could take like a couple days in a row if you're really kind of you know been out there for me it's taking a couple days where i'm like ah i guess i feel kind of better but then consecutively a few days you know on your fifth day you're like oh my god i think i just this is what jesus feels like i feel so wonderful right now and i love my friends so much i'm gonna **** call all of them you know you're like it's just this high of gratitude and i think gratitude can heal So much of what's going on in the world I really do i always i like to look at my life sort of in the entire spectrum of my life So like i see myself as a 26 year old Now but like i see myself as all the experience i've had and all the experience i'm going to have and don't know about and so like when i'm upset in a situation i'm always looking for like How will this affect my future and where is this feeling coming from my past

[03:13:16] Abrielle: And i feel like that helps me a lot To sort of like take myself out of the Situation and be like let's look at this you know like when i get into arguments with somebody i look at the entirety of our friendship And i'm like where did this come from and how Is it going to affect us moving forward and when we move forward what are we going to look back on this and like see it as and i do that in the moment i'm fortunate enough to like be able to see things that way because i see like in my relationship i see the entirety of my relationship i see where it came from and hopefully where it's going and what is this conversation right now like going like when we look Back on it like what is it going to look like in the future and I just think of like a lot of my Gratitude comes from being able to objectively Look at my life like just step back And be like here's where i am in this Lifespan here's where i am things are

[03:14:22] Abrielle: Pretty good like there's some bumpiness along the Road but like thank goodness for all of that and like i'm such in a good place now that i that the rest of my life i'm sure Will be pretty good because i have the outlook of it being pretty good even when bad things happen like things are still Pretty good even like i don't even want to say It but even when my parents pass away like my life is still pretty good like i've still i really i don't even know like i could Lose my apartment and lose my family and lose my relationship and lose my cats but like at least i still have my friends maybe i lose all my friends at least i still have my health at least i still have the ability to figure things out you know there's just number one it's not so Serious and number two like the lifespan is so long the experience Of right now is so short and like to be able to look at it and be like this is so bad and so stressful and this is so

[03:15:27] Abrielle: Negative it's just like but look at all Of these experiences and what is this one doing for you right now and i don't i don't see how People can't be grateful and How we can just live in these shells of Who we think we should be for society Yeah we keep living as our kayfabe characters our WWE representations of ourselves

[03:15:55] Jacob: Yeah i think that is very important to Remember that's something you and i both do that Not a lot of people do is it is going meta On your own life essentially like Able to pull up the fact that like Loss right now hurts and it's pain and emotions are real and like agonizing and you know often very Intense and very hard to like think of more than just this moment in this pain that i'm experiencing but when you really go meta and you back up You can you can remember like oh you know I okay just as a low-hanging fruit Example you know if your friend passed away Like what you remember you're of course Sad like you don't get to have any more memories with him but what is with the reason why

[03:16:49] Jacob: You're so sad is because you have already had many memories with them and it's not about being able to hold them and take them and bring them somewhere or anything or you can have them for infinity and you get to bury them with you when you're dead or whatever it's like that is what life has been that is what your life is Those experiences that you had with your friend with your companions with the loved ones with the people around your family you're like we Mourn for the loss of our Comfortability in the moment and that Overshadows and really puts this dark ugly shadow on the beauty of our lengthy ass lives you know like if i Like if i die tomorrow you know like

[03:17:29] Abrielle: Man i've experienced some great things like i hope i get a lot more years you know it's the same reason why we're upset when a young person dies when one young child dies because we're like man he didn't even get to he didn't even get to have a 12 year old best friend yet you know and he passed away that is terrible but we've got to realize why we'd be angry you know or an older person you're like oh you know he'd live oh he's ready to go he's happy he's fulfilled you know he's going out with a smile on his face yeah he lived a good life you know it's we're always trying to take stock of the right now um and say that's us but we've got To be able to expand on our lives and say like what is this whole thing what have i been able to experience so i love what you just said we mourn for the com we mourn for our Comfortability in the moment i wrote it down i love that i that's so true and it's When we step back and look at our entire

[03:18:21] Abrielle: Life like that pain was Necessary to push us to this next step That we can see because when we pull back we can see our entire life and all of our experiences that bump in the road was so important and it was so important for us we went so low and in the moment like we felt so bad but it was so necessary for Us to feel that way because then we moved to this point and this point had all of these effects and it's just i agree we mourn for our Comfortability and comfortability in the moment but when we Pull back and see it like some of it is so all of it is so necessary our experience Of life is so necessary and to be able to feel It experience it and see it for what it really is in the lens of our whole lifespan like it's so important and god my gosh it would help so many People if they thought that way this i feel like i'm just hearing i've listened to a lot of ram toss i'm just hearing his voice go um like

[03:19:26] Abrielle: Oh man i almost lost it uh That's just your dharma or that's just your dominant like that is that's your life that's this is what it is like don't you get it like this is there isn't more than this is this is the thing like we think we're getting somewhere we're gonna catch this carrot on a stick but it's not there it's never been there this is it this is the thing right now it's so true like your dharma

[03:19:49] Jacob: Stressing about whatever is happening and when does it get easier and when does this and when does that just you have to figure it out how to make it easy now like what you're going through like you need to navigate it now because it doesn't get easier you feel the pain and understand

[03:20:06] Abrielle: How to deal with it and that's what makes it easier like feeling your life is what makes it easier not numbing yourself from the experiences that you are inevitably going to have yeah like reaching numbing yourself from that experience that goes right back to that comfortability like where you know ooh my interior is feeling pain right now so like how can i be most comfortable i mean i've i have my own addictions for sure and i have had them even worse with other things in the past and like i know exactly how that goes it's like so many layers deep you're starting to feel something and you just say oh how can i be more comfortable in this moment rather than how can i assure that i live a fully 360 Degree lived fulfilled life you know we want to

[03:20:47] Abrielle: Be comfortable right now that means we're always trying to get somewhere and then we realize at the end like oh **** i forgot to look over my shoulder this whole time like oh dang 80 years you know oh damn i forgot to look back and be grateful you know gratitude is probably one of the most important things um i was thinking we're getting pretty up here in time i appreciate you hanging with me i don't know if you have anywhere else to be but i was thinking um also i apologize for not asking your time frame before we got going that's unprofessional for me too um but i was curious the first thing That you wrote down on your paper that we started with can we loop back to that is that sensible what did it say again is that a good way to wrap this up a majority of the human experience is Relaying and relating to people and i don't feel like we're doing that so yes that comes from We are not relating to people because we Are acting as who we think we should be

[03:21:45] Abrielle: Rather than acting as who we are and when we are not who we are in ourselves we are not able to connect with anyone else oh my god i'm dropping the mic drop That is so dope isn't that wow yeah that's you know i've talked about how with these arguments you know left right I'm this i'm that i'm blue i'm red or whatever like these arguments they do have this innate it's hard to put your finger on but it's like are you guys making eye contact or are You yelling above each other's heads like you know what i mean like they're not you're like oh man you're just missing the person stuff though you know and that's what it is we're we have these little like Like a little pokemon above our head and like my blastoise is trying to shoot at your venusaur but like we got to forget that we're not the **** pokemon we're not pokemon trainers man we're humans pretending to be pokemon trainers yeah exactly you know it's so true and it definitely comes back to that we are our human experience Is defined by how we relate to other

[03:22:49] Abrielle: People because it helps us define ourselves And if we're too busy Acting like people who we aren't we Don't figure out who we are and aren't able to Actually connect with anybody wow It's time for collective healing y'all Dude oh man i love how that came full circle i feel like that was like just it was so good just pristine um

[03:23:20] Jacob: Abrielle thank you so much for doing this thank you for your time i'm totally gonna use this for my Sense Making Sickness series um i'll send you the link to the other one and we'll talk about this after but um thank you for stumbling it's like allowing me to stumble through thank you for opening up thank you for being awesome thank you for being my friend you're just awesome person anyway i love like having these talks with you we get going pretty good with we'll get texting and messaging back and forth with a lot of these concepts um so it's always nice to actually talk Yeah dude it is and then you know i

[03:23:52] Abrielle: Feel like the zoom calls i'm always a little butt hurt i'm always like it's not as good as in person i can't really connect with them but i mean after just a few minutes you know it's just a normal it's it feels it's pretty authentic it feels nice it's okay i think so too and i appreciate you jake you're always the person who i feel like i can authentically go to and like relate to and it's because we have that just like we're not trying to be any Facade of any other people to each other like we are just i always ask you about your human experience and we that's what we talk about yeah i appreciate that about you yeah thank you abriel i mean and you even like working with me to where you have to be like jake here's your deadline you have to like you have to hit the business side of me and you have to like reign in this you have to reign in creators which is just a wonderful like a job you have a gift for sure Um but yeah we can meet each other on

[03:24:49] Jacob: All these levels and it's awesome and so i'm glad that we covered a lot of things that we covered today um i think i asked you last time what the world needs more of right now right i think i ended up the world needs more authenticity more compassion more understanding that's what i want to see more of understanding yourself being compassionate to yourself Like allowing yourself to feel feelings Allowing yourself to struggle allowing yourself to take a day off from the gym allowing yourself to skip in your diet you know just like be wrong yeah be wrong be wrong Like it's okay you're not right about everything be wrong be silly be ridiculous be annoying like be whatever you want to be like be whatever you are and understand that and then bring That understanding to other people and just spread that understanding kindness compassion authenticity transparency vulnerability all the things okay would you rather fight A horse sized duck or A hundred duck-sized horses Um I'll go with a horse-sized duck Because a hundred duck-sized horses All have hooves i mean Like imagine how heavy one Horse-sized duck would truly be

[03:26:11] Abrielle: I'd still how would you fight that Have you thought about this don't you lay awake at night wondering about this dude i think i'm gonna go with the one enemy rather than a hundred little enemies i don't know there was an episode of uh Something um i don't know what it was oh uh Some anime thing that my boyfriend was watching and it was fighting this enemy that he couldn't see it was a very small thing and i think i'd rather fight something i can see that's very large a big target big moving target i know where my target is i'll go with the horse-sized duck Feathers all right respect if i ever if i ever encounter a horse-sized duck i'm calling you up let me ask you what do i do man Don't um bank on me having the answer and you're like jake are you on lsd right now That'll be my first question all right

[03:27:05] Outro: Man i appreciate it Listeners take care of yourself drink some water love yourself practice gratitude practice compassion and thank you for hanging with us if you If you hung up hung with us this far check out Abrielle I'll link a couple of her things then we also have another podcast together for more of her like personal life and in her work so check that out as well Um have a good day abriel i'll talk to you right after this Do we learn how to have better conversations at what age do we learn to have better conversations with ourselves But how could we make better sense of it All