# Ep 074 w/ Spencer Hicks - Dialectics and Communication Breakdown - A Meta-Analysis of Cancel Culture

- Episode: 0074
- Guest: [Spencer Hicks](/guests/spencer-hicks/)
- Published: 2021-07-15
- Duration: 2:19:22 (8362s)
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGCWOM8a2os
- RSS: https://share.transistor.fm/s/ce271a47
- Audio: https://2.gum.fm/op3.dev/e/pdcn.co/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/media.transistor.fm/ce271a47/abcba838.mp3

## About

Spencer is an armchair philosopher with focus in metaphysics, political philanthropy, ethics, and epistemology.

In this episode, using a systems thinking lens; we discuss pop-culture cancellation, political perspectives on the issue, power dynamics of canceling, a crisis of meaning, world views, belief systems, cancel culture in academia, the influences from capitalism, technology, entertainment, and meme society. We touch on ideologies, neo-marxism, corporate press propaganda, and collective consciousness.

## Chapters

(none published in episode notes)

## Quotes

(none published in episode notes)

## Guest links (from published notes)

(none published in episode notes)

## Tags / keywords

Spencer Hicks, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0074, JYLP 0074, Dialectics and Communication Breakdown, Cancel Culture

## Archive picks

Extracted from the YouTube auto-caption transcript and published About already on this episode. Labeled separately from Jacob’s published About / Chapters / Quotes / Hashtags.

## Memorable quotes

- [00:01:50] Spencer: “think is most the time eighty percent of the time when somebody gets canceled it's just they're being held accountable for something that they did that's not good”
- [00:01:50] Spencer: “canceled it's just they're being held accountable for something that they did that's not good and they don't really like it and now there's a word to deflect”
- [00:14:48] Spencer: “college where we live and I've taken a few at university but most of my study have has Come outside of that and most of it has been”
- [00:49:54] Spencer: “Bourgeoisie and the proletariat that is like Marx's terms and before Uh industrialization happened if you Were a cobbler if you made shoes you made the whole shoe”
- [02:16:52] Spencer: “stuff anyways yeah There is no capital t in truth but we're going to look for it anyway All right all right jake welcome yeah um”
- [02:15:58] Spencer: “it's just uh this is a complete red herring and non-issue and for people personally Don't worry about it don't worry about it just work on being a”
- [02:04:20] Spencer: “problem of i think Alan Watts calls it the backwards law basically by being someone that needs to Improve by being someone who needs to do these things”
- [02:13:10] Spencer: “with the conclusion don't let other people think for you like you'll see it and just like a lot of uh really just new sites in general You'll”
- [02:15:02] Jacob: “between entertainment and This wasn't so bad spencer no i think we”
- [02:16:18] Jacob: “just i like saying the Ushers of epiphany so i like to uh our”

## Chapter-style timestamps

- [00:00:06](#t-00-00-06) — Opening bumper — Junkyard Love
- [00:00:14](#t-00-00-14) — At what age do we learn…
- [00:00:42](#t-00-00-42) — Knowledge is power bumper
- [00:01:07](#t-00-01-07) — Into cancel culture — pop vs politics
- [00:01:50](#t-00-01-50) — Accountability vs canceling
- [00:14:48](#t-00-14-48) — Spencer background — metaphysics / epistemology
- [00:25:14](#t-00-25-14) — Authority outside the law / checks and balances
- [00:39:55](#t-00-39-55) — Collective unconscious / shared reality
- [00:49:54](#t-00-49-54) — Marx — bourgeoisie / proletariat
- [00:59:05](#t-00-59-05) — Individualism vs collectivism
- [01:09:59](#t-01-09-59) — Propaganda / Koch brothers
- [01:24:58](#t-01-24-58) — Marxism / postmodern meta-narratives
- [02:04:20](#t-02-04-20) — Alan Watts backwards law / self-help
- [02:15:02](#t-02-15-02) — Close — put cancel culture to bed
- [02:17:17](#t-02-17-17) — Close CTA — water / cancel / breathe

## Keywords

Spencer Hicks, Dialectics and Communication Breakdown, Meta-Analysis of Cancel Culture, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0074, JYLP 0074, cancel culture, systems thinking, metaphysics, epistemology, political philosophy, Marxism, neo-Marxism, Hegel, capitalism, propaganda, academia, collective consciousness, Alan Watts, Jacob Rhines

## Hashtags

#SpencerHicks #JYLP0074 #JunkyardLove #CancelCulture #Dialectics #SystemsThinking #Marxism #Epistemology #Metaphysics #Propaganda #CollectiveConsciousness #AlanWatts #JYLP

## Short guest bio (from episode speech + published About/links)

Spencer Hicks is an armchair philosopher focused on metaphysics, political philanthropy, ethics, and epistemology (from the published episode notes). On Junkyard Love episode 0074 he and Jacob use a systems-thinking lens on pop-culture cancellation, power dynamics, crisis of meaning, belief systems, cancel culture in academia, capitalism/technology/entertainment/meme society, ideologies, neo-Marxism, corporate press propaganda, and collective consciousness. He later returns on episode 0088 (Break The Hammer).

## Transcript

[00:00:06] Jacob: Hello and welcome to the Junkyard Love

[00:00:14] Jacob: Podcast At what age do we learn how to have

[00:00:21] Jacob: Better conversations At what age do we learn to have better conversations with ourselves

[00:00:42] Jacob: Me Knowledge is power

[00:01:07] Jacob: Really what i wanted to do is we missed pop culture on the talk is i obviously i have a like

[00:01:13] Spencer: A more myopic political lens because it's what's actually important in the world like effect it actually affects people like the political ramifications and actual pop culture doesn't at all you know it's just like so it's just not important to me and really anyone so i just didn't talk about it but most people's framework of cancel culture is Jake Paul got canceled not trans people don't get rights you know right yeah so we can reference the other stuff because we don't have to dump down everything but yeah i guess we can bring it back down to like a level of most people listening to the podcast don't know who those people are even what i want to do is just touch on the

[00:01:50] Spencer: Pop culture thing because i want to talk about accountability because what i really think is most the time eighty percent of the time when somebody gets canceled it's just they're being held accountable for something that they did that's not good and they don't really like it and now there's a word to deflect it right yeah it's just like people in power don't like being held accountable that's actually why most people acquire power who gets to choose who gets to choose who holds people accountable though you can't just hand the mic to the loudest person in the room because they're you know they don't like what happened there's always it's so contextual and it's so relative yeah i know but there are some Through lines with being held like if you just are doing some blatantly shitty stuff It's like that's pretty universally accepted is not cool like yeah you should be held accountable like i want to go over Brian Callen and Chris D'Elia because they both had really weird reactions to some pretty bad stuff it's like i would deem pretty obviously

[00:02:50] Spencer: Probably true all things considered and their deflection was the mob's coming after me i'm a good guy It's just canceled culture but it's like well you have a past of Being pretty aggressive towards women you verbally talk about it all the time all your friends talk about this and there's been like five people you know that said they've been on the wrong side of this it's probably true yeah and it's like now you're being held accountable and you don't really like it and it's dangerous for your career so of course you're going to deflect it and i think that a lot of the rhetoric just in the pop culture sphere comes around that is i've done bad things because i've been allowed to for a long time and i'm finally being held accountable i don't really like it very much of course i mean nobody would like it very much but so what's there is something to be said about the uh you know the imaginary line that we'll have to draw though i mean so what is deemed dude

[00:03:47] Spencer: That's outlandish that's not okay like obviously you know uh i think chris was texting underage girls in a sexual manner obviously that's like okay cool not good uh but otherwise where do we leave room for people like the things being pulled up from 25 Years ago things being pulled up from when the person in question was an immature or you know lesser than Version of themselves i don't know the pulling stuff i mean that's contextual like did you murder somebody 20 years ago probably accountability is necessary but it's like were you a little unsensitive at work 30 years ago when everyone was and you just aren't famous so people are talking about it that's probably not worthy Well there's just no rules to most stuff Like reality is pretty subjective and Most stuff is pretty subjective to be honest and it's not It just requires a lot of um nuance Which i think has been lost upon all of us nuance is just something that people don't like to engage with because it's hard

[00:04:53] Jacob: Do you think that our do you think that Our reactions to a lot of these things and the way we react and how obtusely Or acutely we react to certain things um Do you think that's disproportionate like sometimes i feel that

[00:05:10] Spencer: A lot of like a summarization of this cancel culture stuff is for me like okay i'm not saying it's Not important like yes let's do that yes what that person did was wrong yes let's have some you know reconciliation let's have some uh repentance i don't know Whatever but i'm just always thinking Why the **** are we talking about this like why are we like why is this the Main thing a camera is being pointed at is it because it's just it's just pop culture and this is what sells and this is what's hot this is the hot take of what's going on now it's like oh these people if we really put a magnifying glass on their belief system it will get us constant things to talk about um and so our new cycle is kind of like eating our culture full circle like why are we paying attention to this and not other important things about our Reality and our you know culture and life um i am

[00:06:04] Spencer: Conflicted on the answer to this i think on one hand we're kind of force-fed and like just useless dribble from media companies just because it Sells it's easy it's easy outrage you know i Mean it's really just being monetized to some degree and it's also easier to confront than um hey the world's increasing in heat And everyone is like gonna die in a hundred years like that's a lot harder to grapple with and it's not immediately relevant

[00:06:31] Jacob: So like you can either have an existential crisis or make fun of Jake Paul what do you think to have a good like you know to have a good saturday okay i totally agree but i Think that this is like this is a big **** deal Then like the fact that we're okay there's this scene in the show with the good place you've watched a good place right i think i've asked you this i have not i do use one line all the time from the good place but Which is what's the line i can't believe it's like i can't believe what i'm talking i'm a total snack i say that pretty frequently glad you Pulled that out of like you're an amateur philosopher who pulled that out of a philosophy tv series i don't know i've seen one that's the only scene i've seen

[00:07:13] Jacob: You would love it i'm pretty sure that i've mentioned it to you a couple times i'm annoying about it i'm always wanting to get people to watch it but anyway so there's this scene where um forget the actor's name but phoebe from friends she's in the show and they get to the good place uh spoiler alert they get to like this is this is a good place you know the representation in this sitcom of heaven um and what it is like they're all Just like chilling uh one of them one of the main characters wants to meet phoebe and she used to be this intelligent mathematician um like really like sought after who would not love to talk to her if you're into philosophy or mathematics or science or one of those things and one of the main characters goes to talk to her and she doesn't remember any of that stuff she's just like drinking margaritas and it's an infinite party so it's basically like we're fed

[00:08:00] Jacob: In this good place we get everything we ever wanted but then eventually we forget the importance of like oh yeah i get to be shaped by you know hardships and um trying to Learn things that are difficult but when you're when you're alive for thousands and thousands of years that's how it is in the good places an infinite amount like you get to choose basically when you leave but you're otherwise you live for as long as you want so after a couple hundred couple thousand years you stop focusing on um stop focusing On things that challenge you and so The scene basically the scene they're trying to

[00:08:36] Spencer: Tell like they're trying to tell her like hey this is this is incorrect like you guys are like turning into mush piles of dummy like you're not this isn't how is this heaven and the thing is phoebe kind of keeps breaking out of it she wants to tell them like hey this is actually bad but we keep forgetting because we keep slipping right back into the divot of like oh here's another margarita because you can literally just snap your fingers and there's a margarita or whatever you want in your hand so after a while they get numb to it and phoebe's not able she kind of periodically breaks out of it in the Show but i think that this one i'm pointing at is like could we be so numbed that we are Not able to steer our ship in the right directions you know where we're focusing on the wrong things and it could have semi-catastrophic uh you know answers in

[00:09:20] Spencer: In results but it's such a scary thing it puts us into such a fear response as a biological human that is difficult for regular people to talk about yeah i think that um this is about to touch on a bunch of stuff that i want to talk about today so on one hand it's just i think the Innate powerlessness of all of it probably makes it hard to confront one because it's just like even if you come to the realization that everything is not how it ought to be uh you can't really immediately change it and i think that drives a lot of anxiety one two it's Just hard to look at your own um philosophy Or your own what is the perspective i guess belief systems yeah so you can either spend your saturday night after you've worked 80 hours and um dig in or you can ingest some Mindless content and one is infinitely easier and it will always it usually is chosen especially in western societies So although i don't live like that

[00:10:19] Spencer: Usually i spend a lot of time toiling and i like i think it's fun to be challenged just like this constant iron sharpens iron i just need to come to like better conclusions with more information but sometimes i just like to play video games as well so like i totally i totally get it but it can't we can't live in the state of inundation or inoculation I agree but so as we're studying these things like as you're spending your time as someone who just enjoys philosophy we're having these conversations it's hard to wonder what do we do with it what like what are we really doing like what is a podcast what is it trying to accomplish what are long-form conversations what is like hours of you listening to Like your favorite philosophers or perspectives hours of me doing the same in my realm like it seems like there's something

[00:11:04] Spencer: There that needs to be implied and it kind of feels important i don't know if it's this grandiose like self-importance that's just sneaking in there but it feels like more people need to be shifting their conversations around um you know kind of the uncomfortable And less around the numb margaritas i kind of just think this is what politics is politics is where philosophy meets reality and everything is kind of innately political disrespectful to philosophy to me for some reason well i mean usually i would assume at least for me I'm not gonna i guess i won't assume for anyone else but i originally just got into philosophy in college i really enjoyed it and then you work down the line you go from like socrates to plato and you eventually get to like heggle and Marx and like all these um Unorthodox thinkers from other places that are not don't really have western ideas and uh It's just innately really political like hannah arendt so you just get to a

[00:11:58] Spencer: Point in which the philosophy can no longer be political because it kind of never was after epistemology all of this is hey i am constructing a worldview or a Tool or a way to think that it should be applied to make the world as good as it can be and what is politics hypothetically it's just a belief system Or a set of rules and values to maximize human um Capabilities and uh freedom i think That it's supposed to be that but it if We look more closely it's not that and we need to be able to adjust course right like we need to be able to realize like hey this thing that we made to create like um order amongst chaos basically Uh it worked it's been working it is Great but we're now it's now in a trajectory

[00:12:48] Spencer: That may not be great so we might need to adjust course like how do we well i think that's what i was getting at is i've always thought that the end goal of uh engaging in all this philosophy and all the political thought and all the rhetoric is to eventually come to a conclusion with a clean enough and presentable enough a series of talking points that uh you Could go um gather or rally people for like a Real cause because that's where the rubber meets the road right so like if i can figure if you can precisely figure out a world view that is going to be optimal for most people that is um that catchy enough that you Think will maximize human um oh i'm looking for a word and i Can't find it Uh satisfaction is not the word i'm looking for but we'll take it

[00:13:35] Spencer: But i see where you're pointing though yes yeah so that's where the rubber meets the road and i don't think it's always that but if you look at the political landscape there is definitely some side of it that is pretty egalitarian and wants to make people's lives better and then Others just funnel control into more authority and We have way too much of the latter and not enough of the former and i think that's we're really running into problems

[00:14:03] Jacob: Yeah i think you're right i okay let's Back out of the hole a little bit let's um let's actually

[00:14:11] Spencer: Go real far back let's do will you give a brief background of like what you like the classes that you've taken and kind of like your thinking around this and then you can kind of present your first sort of summarizing claim and then we'll go through those bullet points that we had on for cancel culture yeah

[00:14:30] Jacob: Yes or just but also i mean i think Just as a as a person who's involved in philosophy like why are you having perspective about it why is this interesting to you how does that relate to the things that studies so let's see my logic chain Well i took a lot of let's see i've

[00:14:48] Spencer: Taken philosophy of religion i've taken basically i've taken every philosophy class at uh the community college where we live and I've taken a few at university but most of my study have has Come outside of that and most of it has been um usually on metaphysics Epistemology and political philosophy So i'm really interested in uh The systems that we put in place to uh Make everyone's life better and what is a better way to make a more egalitarian society how Do we maximize human liberty and human freedom while also securing Just basic rights and that's kind of The pipeline i've gone down i really like um a lot of thinkers of modernity i like Marx's work is great uh modern thinkers i really like Slavoj Žižek he's a Hegelian and obviously i like Hegel a lot So let's see i really like Camus for epistemology who really just Talks about um the absurdity of the world i mean it's just kind of like this meaningless thing and it's just this constant struggle to find meaning and something that doesn't have meaning inherently you see absurd absurdism yeah

[00:16:04] Spencer: And then i really like jean-paul sartre as well i've read a lot of his work So cool so that so those all influence Your thinking i mean and i think i just bringing it back again to the average listener someone who doesn't really study philosophy that it's like it's fascinating to them but maybe they haven't very much um to you what does it point out like in our psyche about our society Like why would it be important to study philosophy like how does it relate to our everyday lives how does it a holistic approach to like solving problems well There's a macro and micro sense to this so on one hand on an individual level you really just can um what's the main goal it's how do I figure out how to live the best life possible what are the series of ideas that i can collect and implement to just live and be as good as i can be

[00:16:52] Spencer: And just be a good person and that's like um a lot of the baseline older philosophy is how to think how to analyze the world to try to stop unconscious bias like how do you how do i perceive reality and it's how can i change that for the better and then on a macroscopic sense a lot of the thinkers that i just listed talk about power dynamics uh economics and things that really Equate to how the world runs and how it could definitely be different so that's what i'm most interested in now because there's just like an innate And very large amount of suffering that goes on due to the systems that are in place and uh changing them because we Made them up seems to be of the utmost importance so i spend a lot of time especially studying power dynamics because if you can understand power dynamics you can understand a lot of situations a lot clearer like

[00:17:46] Spencer: Because it's it just that's how systems work it's this funnel of power and things push and pull so if you can take a step back understand the system you then have the capability to change it and a few of the ideas i want to talk about later when we get a little down into the weeds are clarifications on some schools of Thought or tools used that actually just assess power dynamics

[00:18:09] Jacob: Okay well so how does how does this

[00:18:12] Spencer: Bring us back into cancel culture like what is what is cancel culture what are we i'm like why would we Need to talk about it because i mean this podcast really has never been a place where we just talk about hot topics like i mean when kova came around i had a couple episodes around that but obviously you know that's because it's right in the forefront of what's going on we didn't know what else to do we're trying to solve problems but why would it be mentioned here um Like why is it something we should be focusing on when it comes to you know mental health philosophical thought contemplation Well i just i think it's important to talk about because there is a lot of fear mongering that goes on i think people are a lot more frightened of it than uh is duly necessary

[00:18:56] Spencer: I've talked to many people usually people that are probably apolitical or just um see it in the periphery of social media you see it like when Jake Paul gets canceled or whatever and it's frightening because the thought of hey i might do something wrong and be unaware of it and now hundreds of people are gonna brigade me on twitter and i'm not gonna be able to participate in society sounds really scary but it just doesn't happen it's just not it just doesn't happen it doesn't happen to really anyone so i first off want to liberate people From being scared of that but there's obviously a lot more nuance to this than that Because it seems to be in the collective psyche of at least americans this cancel culture idea This thing that's happening because i mean it's um blasted on news sites usually Maliciously in a lot of ways i find like it just has a way to deter from real criticism but it seems to be talked about A very lot so i think it's worth talking

[00:19:56] Spencer: About because people think about it a lot right yeah i think it's worth you know consulting because i think we came to the conclusion uh with our little brainstorm session even and even before we hit record that After kind of mulling it over for a while it really is this silly glanceable like jesus this is not important actually like this is something that no regular person should be you know worried about like no like we shouldn't worry about but because We are always protecting our you know Our ego of course but now we have this like ego 2.0 we have our avatar online

[00:20:31] Jacob: Um do you think like our big fear towards it is a response to like how Quickly and how like difficult it must Be for us as just humans to adjust to this Entirely new way of thinking and doing and having this whole new overlay of reality just within the last what 15 years i mean Yeah that makes sense it's just an innate survival response so just the prospect of just being completely ostracized from society because you said you said something improperly that you weren't aware of like just out of sheer actual ignorance not like willful not Bad um not in bad faith It's just you said a wrong thing and now you don't get to participate with us like that like you got kicked out of the tribe and i that's frightening

[00:21:19] Jacob: Explain why that's frightening like i know you like just pitch and hold that because i just want to like whoever is actually sitting here in some sort of fear like they haven't really thought about it this in depth but they're like dang hopefully nobody pulls up my you know snapchats from six years ago yeah well okay so let's run them back we Used to live in uh small communities tribes uh hunter gatherers and if you

[00:21:39] Spencer: Don't conform to society or fit in with all these people you will be ostracized and die because you can't eat because you're alone you're not gonna be able to survive we are collective animals by nature and we need others to live and i think that this sparks something just deep inside people that they just you don't want to get kicked out you don't want to get kicked out of the end group you want to be a part of the stuff you don't want to do anything wrong and i think it causes a lot of unnecessary fear because it's um i just it's a non-issue I mean how many people do you personally know that have been actually affected by this and i know this is not definitive I don't know anybody too i don't think i know anybody who's been like canceled this is good i just feel like if like the simplest answer

[00:22:20] Jacob: Is just i mean if okay so say you're like afraid of getting canceled or someone comes up to you and they're like hey what's up with this and they show you they walk up to you at a bar right in your face they're like hey here's a screenshot if you do remember here's a picture of you bubba so you said this or you blackface or you whatever like all you have to do is go Oh yeah that was kind of **** up i didn't really think about that at that time but yeah i'll probably do that again like if you genuinely or i mean if it's something really bad obviously there needs to be some sort of repentance so there's a fine line but i think the average person who's just living experience trying to figure out life trying to deal with their own **** that they were handed from childhood like as long as you know maybe we should Narrow back down on like when is canceled culture actually good like how is it helpful but again reiterating the average person

[00:23:09] Jacob: Has nothing to worry about like we're all growing we're all adapting nobody's going to dig up your past and define you as an entire person through that yeah and i as we go along this i actually want to make a differentiation between uh how this is viewed in political light And how this is viewed in pop culture and i think we'll start with the latter because it's just Not as large of a topic so i firmly believe that celebrities Getting canceled most the time is for pretty irrelevant stuff like uh usually like doing some Not so fun sexual acts you know just Like actual crimes or really bad things socially that we can all kind of agree on and i think now that there's this fun word that they get to deter all criticism for it's like all right so Brian callan is a comedian and i wasn't going to drop his name in case anyone liked him i was going to drop at the end but i think i'll just go through with it Um so he has a long history of being like

[00:24:08] Jacob: Self-describe himself as very aggressive towards women just like just having predatory behavior and it never seemed really that bad until Um hindsight uh he all his friends have

[00:24:19] Spencer: Also corroborated on this and he's had like four to five female colleagues also cooperate this and he had some sexual allegations that were pretty unsavory come out and uh he deflected with just it's cancel culture it's the woke mom but it's like realistically these are probably true if you like look at all of this in hindsight and you're just being held accountable for it because you've been in a place of power and you've been allowed to act like this and uh now once you finally have consequences you just have a you just have it now like uh it's the woke mob you know none Of my own behavior did any of this it's just people don't like me and they're coming after me and i understand this is subject to a lot of nuance and subject to a lot of um it's very case-dependent but sometimes people are just being held accountable they don't really like it very much but okay so we do see how we're In that sense we're going to allow a Sense of authority outside the law right

[00:25:14] Spencer: Like so we have a checks and balances system of like when people step out of line or they do something wrong you know it's called it's called law it's called the justice system that sort of thing but this is kind of a different entity of it's canceling your social not just social praise but i Mean i guess it is someone's livelihood and yeah and i like average people can have That power all the time although sometimes they Need it so it is kind of a **** up well it's how do you deal with it because society is self-auditing and this power was given by people in the first place by social praise so i could never ask a group of people to not to just like keep praising this person because the loss didn't say not to you know like You i guess you live by the sword you die by the sword which is really not how i wanted to be all the way i think we do have a justice system for uh reasons but if you've garnered Your whole like life and career on this

[00:26:12] Spencer: Social praise and gathering followers and being a certain way and you are found to be a completely different way and actually quite the contrary to how you presented yourself i think that's warrants to not receiving praise anymore because like why should people praise you yeah but again you said how you present yourself and i think that is way more complicated nowadays than we really understand like this social media thing this internet thing has really changed like you can have an empire you can have i've dealt with it too like i'm always like how am i being um inauthentic like how am i focusing too much on this side of me and my social media like how am i digging out these oh i want to make sure everybody sees these things this is exactly what the ego loves to do like let's make sure i'm presented in this way and then these things like that's real though like they're both real and valid i guess we can't just we can't define People completely off of who they put

[00:27:07] Spencer: Themselves out to be because then we're just we're just confusing what's really going on yeah leaving room for it i think this is definitely different because um one you're thinking about this and two it's not like you just got caught being kind of mean to a clerk sometimes like there's like a lot of sexual assault allegations that's like that's like way different that's way different and you if you ever look around at any of the like public figures that caught just they're just being **** literally nothing happens it's only it's usually Only real consequences happen when like real and definitive like claims are made i'm not saying that Um i don't think the justice system should just deal with this and i do think that some people get thrown under the bus for this but that is just how it's been forever and this is not really a new thing that's happening Yeah like society self-auditing itself is just happens and it always has happened we just have a word for it now

[00:28:03] Jacob: Yeah i guess that's true i mean I don't know i don't want to dive down the hole of censorship right now but that's what i'm thinking about how it does open the door to certain people saying what's wrong or right outside of the authority of our law yeah but i mean We've come to terms the fact that the authority doesn't actually care what's right or wrong either though so we're just having a systemic failure yeah okay really like i mean Who looks for the government for their morality nobody looks at any governing body to say this is the way i need to live life so that already doesn't this is because god's dead this is because god is dead yes nietzsche said it not sorry yes And i think i said it was freud the other day yeah nietzsche said that and it wasn't a happy sentence yeah no i know and we killed him and He's like now how are we gonna arrive at meeting yeah i mean oh man that gets so complicated i think that's just too far into the weeds if we dive into what we're both pointing at um

[00:29:08] Spencer: So let's go back to your notes and see where we're at all right well i just want to first stop this album letters just don't be scared of this don't worry about it you don't need to spend any conscious time being frightened of this if you genuinely just make an effort to be pretty inclusionary just like a good just like a good person and want to understand nothing bad is going to happen to you of any real consequence other than maybe somebody being mad at you on twitter which that happens to everyone for any reason because it's uh the worst place I agreed let's see and then i wanted to talk about um uh political cancel culture or just how it is um portrayed in politics okay yeah so we Covered kind of a pop culture lens a bit so which i really am pretty disinterested in because i just don't feel like the impacts of pop culture in this space are that matter that much They don't affect anyone but in the political space using a lot

[00:30:04] Spencer: Of this rhetoric can revoke people's rights or their path to um having freedom is things like that like just it's fundamentally an obstacle for human rights in a lot of ways and just the way it's used so let's see

[00:30:19] Spencer: Yeah i really believe that um although There were maybe about five six years ago there were some cases in which that a mob probably did some pretty Unreasonable stuff i like to say when brett weinstein got ran off of um evergreen that like that is probably the Height but this is like such a minute small thing that happened that is being Like blown up to basically anyone that holds Any kind of leftists or liberal values Especially in academia is now engaged trying to cancel all of society and uh all of the things they're saying are just anti-human rights stuff like that i think this is a red herring because the core tenants of a lot of these ideologies actually are really egalitarian and inclusionary they want the working class to have more rights more free time like these are a lot of the tenants and things that are studied Through the tools that these people use philosophically so when i see the opposition To these people that really just want things to stay the way they are use a lot of this rhetoric like

[00:31:31] Spencer: Trans bathroom bills or just anything that is like meaningless dribble and say cancel culture they use the term woke a lot like these are buzzwords is really just in complete opposition to um reforming voting rights for black people getting uh redlining gone Uh actual trans rights stuff like that i See it used in opposition to people being liberated pretty frequently

[00:31:57] Jacob: Yeah so i mean I hate to repeat what i had said before about the canary in the coal mine um you're also using the terminology red herring so we're just a couple of dumb birds but uh like to To brett to brett and those guys who were involved in it wasn't i mean obviously it was a big deal to them because it was their livelihood and even with the um you know censorship it still is affecting their livelihood they were making money on youtube and they're being demonetized on youtube um so there is like obviously a personal stake in it so i do totally like hear that bias but Some i think after like diving in pretty good depth on what happened with the evergreen thing and what goes on in places like clubhouse and stuff is what these guys are talking about Is hey we see it's a we see the writing

[00:32:52] Spencer: On the wall sort of thing like hey what is being taught to our young people at a young age is now catching up to us and the people who are making the calls and teaching the young kids now like this the teachers are They have incorrect belief systems and by that i mean um uh Like they're missing something They don't that something they're doing or something they're um a way they're perceiving the world around them is dangerous to the collective like it doesn't have long term um like we can't we can't Constantly think like this or eventually after a course of however many years it's going to crash and burn i think that's kind of where they're coming from when they're making this cancel culture when they're making this stuff a bigger deal what do you think about it yeah i'm not really trying to i'm not throwing shade i just think that their personal experience have uh caused them to maybe blanket over blow a lot of like Overlook a lot of really good stuff that and for some hedge cases

[00:33:52] Spencer: You know like a lot of the things and wishes of these groups of people that don't quite have such hyper-specific values or ideas or aren't the really loud minority you know that are just like super authoritarian and like have a really specific worldview that you must bend the knee to like most of the ideology that comes out Of these philosophies is not like that it's really inclusionary by nature it's kind of how they got there which is very paradoxical and i actually have a Note how i want to talk about how it's very weird that some people came to these conclusions but i just think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater and we can talk about academia if you want now but yeah i mean let's dip our Toes in because i think um i mean i think just really quick an overview just the way that i want to think about this is you know our We all have our own individual reality we all face of our based off of our Experiences our upbringing um we you

[00:34:53] Jacob: Know what we're taught who are around all these things they create a belief system and that's how we perceive reality and we're all very much living in a different reality but we're trying to come to some medium of a shared reality and the it's not just like Because i think a lot of times when we talk about these things it's like okay harvard is teaching this class which is real bad and it's a dumb way of thinking and blah it's like well we need to make sure harvard's held accountable and it's like that's not what we're talking about it's not it's not the blame game it's not who's the bad person here it's a like hey how are we misinterpreting What's really going on how can we take these conversations that are like people riding in the streets and people yelling and blah and how can we like be not dumb apes about this for a damn second and solve these problems

[00:35:42] Jacob: In a way that's like cordial and intelligent and we get the actual correct people in to have conversations and we have the long conversations even if it takes months or years like this is how The you know like the constitution

[00:35:57] Spencer: These sorts of things are formed by a group of people saying hey if we continue to go down the path we're going down we're just going to keep killing each other with clubs and so let's do some sort of organization let's have some sort of agreement blah and we're not doing that we seems to be either we're in the early stages of it and we're calling it too early or the this problem that's coming up we're handling it in stupid weird yelling at each other from across the street ways yeah i want to bring up the fact that a lot like a lot of people with a lot of money do Really well making sure things stay the way they are So when people spend a lot of money to Agitate against all these ideas that are taught in classrooms that are actually benign by nature they're tools of thought and what you do with them obviously can be bad just like anything but innately they just create a more

[00:36:49] Spencer: Systemic and holistic view of reality that can lead to some pretty interesting findings but a lot of there is a lot of people a lot of money to benefit things by things being the way they are So they spend a lot of money to rail against what's going on in academia in a lot of ways and even academia is really not that Problematic i firmly believe that the Only times it could be is with adjunct professors who teach some really niche human humanities courses so like um By adjunct i mean they're not tenured so they can be fired so if you have a lot of young like really young people coming into college and they have this very strong opinion about something

[00:37:30] Spencer: And it's really hyper specific uh it's actually better for you to just go along with it than to teach what you were going to teach or deny what they're saying or even combat them because you don't want the backlash of being fired and this is actually my number one biggest problem with all of the cancel culture is because it's anti-workers rights in colleges because you have adjunct professors that must bend the knee this is a very nice scenario by the way this doesn't really happen i mean i've it's very rare that This goes on but um just basically can be steamrolled by whatever the people in their class think Because they're subject to being fired i think that That's uh not good i'm gonna go with not good But i as a whole don't think academia is

[00:38:16] Spencer: A problem at all in fact i think it is actually causing a lot of friction and the way that things are and is leading things in the way they ought to be and i don't think a lot of people with a lot of power really like that because they lose money so if all of these ideas lead Young people to understand that workers are exploited um everything is pretty subjective when we made all these systems and they're subject to change and um like a lot of people we've done America and just like a lot of the systems in place are not meant to help people they're meant to basically subjugate them so if you can Go and read about all these philosophies and learn these things you can come to these conclusions and that is not really stable for people trying to make billions of dollars right so i think that on the whole academia is extremely important for the Populace to come to some more egalitarian worldviews because in america we

[00:39:14] Spencer: Like our textbooks are basically propaganda they don't actually tell reality everything we learn up until college is just whatever the government wants to show you and then you finally get a chance to engage with some ideas that uh maybe even criticize the way things are and you realize that things are not how they ought to be and this is not a utopia like hey maybe we've done some things badly and that causes a lot of agitation And that can lead to um some friction I think that's kind of where we're at

[00:39:43] Jacob: Yeah i do think uh Yeah i do think it does create this i don't know if it's like shadow is the right word really but it does create some sort of like blind spot

[00:39:55] Spencer: In our collective unconscious though when it comes to like Like if you if we knew 100 certainty That within three months there was an Asteroid that was going to impact the earth and we'd all be dead like we would we would be doing things and acting differently like we would be We would be trying to solve gosh i don't Know where am i trying to go with it We We seem to be like we're distracted by these dumb things when there is bigger deals going on and it seems like that is a very important thing and the reason why we're it's not only that we're distracted but when it comes to observing these things they do cause like a psychological like there's it's like a blip it's like oh that's **** scary like really diving into you know like the concept of john vervicky's meaning crisis when you really like feel that and you really think about i think we have a lot of young people who probably are in this state of like jesus man this world is

[00:40:58] Spencer: **** like we are being handed this poo-poo platter and we have no idea what to do with it and i think that's where a lot of this is kind of stemming from and it's psychologically you know destabilizing to the point of we don't seem to be able to even come to Uh agreeance on how we should approach the problem so we're kind of just fighting at each other over it yeah i mean i think most people aren't going To inspect any of their worldview that's just kind of how the world is and How it's always been so when you get young people that feel This anxiety and they go to a place and then they read all these uh different philosophies from many different schools of thought um and realize like hey there's a lot of Problems and guess what people have been thinking about this for hundreds of years actually a lot of people and maybe uh we're not so powerless to do something anyways and then you go try to figure it out and um you realize

[00:41:55] Spencer: It's way bigger than you so i see this happen a lot and this is another symptom of using tools and properly and i feel like this is semi-paradoxical but usually all these Philosophical ideas have People be inclusionary so it's like hey We need to basically like genders a Social construct or so is race essentially and we need to collectively come together because we all have shared interests and ask for more rights and liberty we Need to break down these barriers but it takes a lot of logic and in just like Philosophical pondering to get to this end point and when you come out of college you're just like hey gender is a social construct race isn't real and everything that you Think is concrete in the world probably isn't true people that didn't have that experience uh that's super frightening because like this Relativity and fluidity is really only present in the minds of people that have studied philosophy or gone to studies because most people look at the world really black and white this is true this is false this is how

[00:43:03] Spencer: It is these can't be changed this is the structure we're living in it so to just you get one person at the literal end of this thought process talking to people that have did not engage in it is going to cause some conflict because it has required a lot of thought to get there it requires a lot of explaining and i think that's why we can't get on the same page just because we have extremely shared interest but we can't come to realize it because we haven't had the same exposure to ideas and i think that is where we get a lot of friction with the college students because i'm i actually agree with most of the tenants that come out of there i mean a lot of them do sometimes in an act to control their Environment take a really hyper specific world view and then force it on others and so Instead of being inclusionary you're now insulating yourself which is the opposite of what you believe somehow i think that's bad philosophy but on the Whole these ideas are supposed to bring the working class together

[00:44:02] Spencer: Like really like that's the goal is we want more rights we want people to not be exploited

[00:44:09] Jacob: Right well so How do we i mean because now everybody Has you know yeah we all have a phone but we all like really looking at what a phone is and what it does to our society and what it does to humans like we do all have access now like you said the people at the end of this wire are now able to talk to the people at the very front and this is this is unusual like so it is a not necessarily just um don't miss Misconceive the words that i'm using for lack of better terms but like the intelligence of like the many Is way different than the intelligence of the few and um intelligence just lack of better words it's basically like you can understand when you study this stuff it actually changes your world view like it's actually very profound to change your world view to have your perspective like be Actually fluid and not just i'm living

[00:45:05] Jacob: Out the things that i was taught from when i was born to when i was seven years old and that's exactly what i'm gonna do until i'm dead but like when you really question um what's going on and what we're all doing here it uh it flips around your beliefs yeah It's the deconstruction of social constructs really because you go to a place and you realize that hey maybe everything's a little more fluid than i thought and not everything's so concrete and when you go Talk to somebody that's like lives in rural alabama and they've lived in their hometown i know this is like probably stereotyping but yeah i know it's i so i apologize but i just want to drive the no hold on i've seen a very small piece of reality And never had any of these things challenged these two things clashing don't make good together they're too far apart i'm not saying that one person is smarter than the other one has just been exposed to more ideas and had more time to develop this like this skill i guess

[00:46:02] Jacob: Because i don't think that this is just like people that go to college are way smarter than others because it's not true that's not true at all it's just they've been exposed to these ideas and now we have a big rift in world views And we're just really grasping or Running up against the problems of that But i do want to talk about some of the ideas that are really slandered Uh in the public space that get taught And they don't necessarily even get taught in most college courses you got to remember college are for-profit They make money they teach capitalist economics and most of the wings are just how to go be a business person so like this is not even a big part of all just like 10 of people that go to college or actually expose a lot of these ideas

[00:46:52] Spencer: But i want to talk about Marxism Intersectionality post-modernism and critical race theory Because these are big scary words talked about by some pretty smart people that i really think fundamentally have missed the mark on adequately assessing them elaborate So let's see what i want to start with i guess i want to start with intersectionality because the whole Metoo movement happened and people were really mad about feminism for a while i mean because a lot of men especially young men is really scary you know it's like this is not the class of people you're part of and they like you see on twitter that somebody tweets that they hate men but intersectional studies is the study Of you take a group of people that is uh just in the hierarchy of Society let's say women they're technically not at the top that would be white men that's who reigns supreme in Intersectional studies and just in general if you look around but by using intersectional thought you

[00:47:56] Spencer: Go look at other groups of people in reference to your own and the whole power spectrum the whole system and you see their struggles and how they intertwine with yours and now you get this interwoven lens of hey this is pretty complex and by taking a Different like analytical lens to other protected class of people or even not protected classes of people we can come to a shared understanding of what needs to be done to remedy this so in third wave feminism With intersectional thought you actually have many feminists who Really study this come to realize that men suffer under the patriarchy as well and i know it's a big the patriarchy is a big scary word but you have really hyper enforced masculine values you're not allowed to show emotion and uh it caused you it just caused a lot of problems and until you use an intersectional lens feminism couldn't come to that conclusion that these people also suffer So now it's shared now we have a shared

[00:48:52] Spencer: Understanding of reality and how we all are not benefiting from society and it just comes to better conclusions that aren't so insular so you don't just have one group of people like hey we want this everyone else in the way It's just like a it's a nice melding and people have tried to call intersectionality the oppression olympics which i mean that doesn't really make sense to me like in hindsight right it's like if you look at that like you've come to a profound conclusion with this tool that has shown you that what you thought was the enemy is actually an ally and suffering as much as you And now we can go forward together because we've intersectionally analyzed this okay i like that i think that's a good explanation what uh We can just go into Marxism keep going uh so Marxism is the big scary word because of the ussr um this is pretty hyper complex but the Actual tenets of Marxism is you get the Fundamental idea of there is a group of people that own Stuff in a group of people that work that don't own stuff this is the

[00:49:54] Spencer: Bourgeoisie and the proletariat that is like Marx's terms and before Uh industrialization happened if you Were a cobbler if you made shoes you made the whole shoe this is your life's work and you saw it go to fruition you sold them to somebody this is very fulfilling okay when factory owners built the Factory you made shoe holes and you poke the holes in shoes you never saw where they went You are completely alienated from this whole process and now the profits that this person that just owns stuff makes you don't get most of it instead of getting all of it so it's exploitative the way that society instructors have exploited it because it separates the worker from the means of production like i do the work but i don't control the means to do so somebody else does so that is kind of How marxists think that like billionaires Happen ceos happen jeff bezos is exploiting Workers by extracting money out of them their

[00:51:00] Spencer: Labor value is the term because he's making way more money off them than they are than they are getting and ollie does his own things and marxists don't think that is a good way to structure society because it doesn't maximize human liberty Yeah because it's kind of like uh you know billionaires are the winners of capitalism and we're the losers we don't like that is that one yeah they just won and it's Just it doesn't seem to me to be a good idea to structure society in a way that five goblins get to control 95 Of the wealth like we live in a post-scarcity society like we have enough food and resources for everyone to live more than a good life on the whole planet like unquestionably And yet we have starvation in the richest country in america like so fundamentally even if you disagree with the means in which the Marxism will like fix the solution The problem that they've analyzed is very real and using Marxist analysis Not saying that you're a Marxist is a really good tool to understand the power Dynamics in society

[00:52:09] Spencer: Okay yeah so i'm not saying it's flawless because obviously this is an ideology that was made from a dude that lived a very long time ago and it's subject to change and this is all very fluid but this will lead me in my next thing is post modernism is an idea Well a sequence of ideas that seeks to look at different uh world views so all the things i've talked about before post-modernism does It seeks to mend all these tools and philosophies together to come to the greatest physical medic conclusion they can to figure out how to structure a better society so they'll use Marxist analysis They'll use intersectionality they'll use critical race theory which is just the study of how systems Impose non-egalitarian outcomes Through power dynamics so it's like Benign right there's nothing evil about this it's just a tool of analysis it's not scary and it's not actually taught in that much schooling How do we how do we allow You know with intention how do we allow These tools or these you know belief systems like how do we get to a point where we can agree

[00:53:19] Jacob: On one that's going to work for everyone like i mean that's i know that's ridiculous because actually don't do it with america but i don't think that any one system is going to work in any one all places but don't you think we're going to eventually need some sort of mutual agreement of sorts like

[00:53:36] Spencer: I mean potentially worldwide like if we're really thinking into the future or like because we're seeing now that what we are what we've become is a species that's able to control the future of the planet control the future of all the other species and we need i feel like we need once we notice that and once we're like oh damn okay now we have awareness of how powerful we really are like let's look at our like we i wish we could just pause everything pause society like stop time and just like okay what are our tools where are we at right now what could we do that's going to assure our you know mutual non-demolition within the next 25 Years well i think that this is sincerely problematic because i actually think that modern socialism solves this because it just doesn't uh aggregate so

[00:54:23] Spencer: Much stuff so if the world's on fire climate change is real the people in charge that are over producing want it to stay the same they want to break epa guidelines they want as little regulation as possible they want the world to be on fire so because they make money when you say Socialism do you uh i would like to point out that i Imagine a lot of people in the audience have a very large maybe preconceived notion of What socialism is like what the media has been painted what the media has said socialism means versus what like its true potential is um yeah so if You go it's just a more egalitarian way to form Society so if right now in a capitalist society we Over produce things pretty aggressively and resources don't go to those who need it so it's Hypothetically in a socialist society You would have all these resources just

[00:55:20] Spencer: Um you would you would receive the means of your labor and you would have more you would have more human rights it would be more egalitarian and we wouldn't over produce this magnitude because we wouldn't have to you don't need to so all of these bad Really bad things that are happening are just consequences of overproduction And um improper resource a lot Maybe okay we're getting into the weeds i want to do we should do an episode on socialism sometime i think that would be great i'm Down at any time anytime and whenever you start your own channel two and then i'll hop on because i feel like you need to elaborate on all these things so much we'll do as many as we can because i wasn't i'm not ready like your perspective on these uh unpack that but let's see what else do i have i do want to talk about uh let's see Uh free speech in the paradox of tolerance i get no actually i want to talk about alienation So a understand of aliens yes a nation Of aliens let's go so Marx using Postmodern Marxist analysis uh Marx

[00:56:23] Spencer: Actually talks a lot about the alienation that comes from modern Life and modern uh factory work capitalist life And it in consumerism as well so And i'm going to wrap this around to cancel culture and why i think this happens like what we were talking about with jonathan heights work the other day i think perhaps yesterday i'm gonna i'm gonna wrap it around so he proposes that because you are no longer able to actually actualize Like you cannot become actualized under such oppressive working conditions and such consumerism because you're just a series of brands and you don't have any life's fulfilling work you just make someone else money and due to the nature of working in an Office or whatever not seeing the end means of your production you don't actually like get the fulfillment of meeting others or feeling connected you become more Isolated with modern life we live in boxes we work in a small segment of the production line you don't feel close to your co-workers That this can hearken a need for really grasping Onto anything that gives you individuality and which can be really hyper specific

[00:57:38] Spencer: Political views so you get a young person out of college that is really feeling this anxiety deeply this i'm not self-actualized I'm having a crisis of meaning and i Realize that everything is fluid and i need to hold on to something i need to do i need to do something good in the world i need i need to be very specific so if you get really

[00:57:59] Jacob: Specific really hyper nuanced political opinions you're now unique and now you can go and force them and you can feel better than others so now you feel good i see how that Could be dangerous i mean uh Yeah i think that's all really good though i like that and i think that's why we get that we get that uh you get that person out Of all this egalitarian inclusionary thought this the purity tester you know yeah I just i just think of the impossibilities that like i'm just thinking of standing you know in a factory setting or a lumber mill setting with my hard hat on going what about meaning and self-actualization you know like what it would like it just It's so far from what we're actually doing like we've really it's we straight off some sort of path that we didn't realize that we needed to kind of keep pruned and trimmed like so um I mean i guess this dips back a little bit into the loss of god but there does need to be some sort of so human beings need something that

[00:59:05] Jacob: We call meaning we it seems to be part of like so Maybe we should elaborate on that like what like because is that something that you think everybody agrees on is i mean i know that we see it a lot through you know a religious lens and people reject that very quickly but you know meaning and like feeling that your life is fulfilled that you're you know living up to your potential that you're doing something to contribute to the greater whole especially when you see that the greater whole is **** kind of um like what is that within us why Do we need why do we need that and how do we put it in doctor i feel like america is In a really odd position for this because we have the person i just talked about and people adjacent to it that are actually aware of the collective and that we need to like they're aware of these things but most of american culture and capitalist belief is predicated on Stark and austere individuality So like i am an individual and i am

[01:00:04] Jacob: Indivisible and i am a part of nothing but myself and i seek to just do good by me And i think that i'm not saying that collectivism is better there's places for all these things that's requires a lot of nuance but the american psyche is inundated with not um not looking outward at all not at all And all the systems we have in place propagate that too you gotta go like we Have got hype culture you got to go buy the nicest stuff you got to be the flashiest like look at me i need to go buy a house in the suburbs and then really isolate myself you just are forced to live this alienated life as this rugged individual Instead of focusing on hey we really Might need to come together and um solve some problems and Figure this out right Yeah uh yeah it's interesting i feel Like you were pointing a little bit about a little bit towards uh kind of a lot of stuff that i would call spiritual like the thing within us that's spiritual i mean the core teaching of so much this

[01:01:04] Spencer: Eastern philosophy that i study or anything that like Ram Dass or Alan Watts would teach is selflessness you know Dualism and nondualism like the Understanding that you are not actually an individual as meant as much as you want to like we have a whole country based off of individualism and i am this important thing uh But the core as we're kind of missing this uh forget the guy's name he writes the

[01:01:35] Jacob: The immortality key i think i had sent you something from him the other day but the statement if you die before you die when you die you do not die or something like that um it's essentially like realizing that you are not a person you are not um and you're not what you think you Are you are the universe the consciousness um the source the soul the god The spirit the whatever um continuing all everything Um because there's a way of living where you can know you can recognize this and um Uh know it's an inner knowing but Also be able to navigate in the world and understand like okay like this is uh these things are this is my ego acting Um so we're basically we have Becometh the ego in like in many ways in a couple Layers and that is actually dangerous to the Future of humanity if one person I mean we look at what we could blame The ego for creating you know the nuclear bomb but now we realize like Oh now we have this thing this power

[01:02:48] Jacob: Because of who we think we are we misconceive reality and in the end that might take away our reality yeah well you could categorize just all Of american and western thought by just like actually just having an extremely stiff and rigid view of the self and the ego so i can even loop

[01:03:08] Spencer: This back to cancel culture definitely because we can see both sides of this so the one side that supposedly has gotten this egalitarian or at least some people in it have come to these egalitarian conclusions and it's collective and selfless and we want everyone to like be fulfilled in society somehow Due to the own ego trap has developed an Insular society that is has a purity Test to get in which is innately just like us that's like a sense of self thing is like hey in order to be with us you have to have this hyper specific worldview and if you don't believe exactly this we're not going to let you in which is the in opposition to all of the Ideas that have been presented before them which would just indicate you just have such a strong potent sense of self and

[01:03:53] Spencer: You're so attached to this you can't be fluent enough to accept more people into it and that's there's a lot of infighting because of this and it takes something that is really important that needs to happen which is just more people having more liberty and makes it this tiny little group because you have to have you gotta you gotta take the test and if you don't take it you don't get in and it's so frustrating so frustrating For me because i firmly believe that all these ideas are actually the best way to construct society so to see people that i align with be so wrong about so many Things because of this is infuriating because in the end people just we just lose you just lose liberty like The collective thing that we have going on all of like we have a collective shared interest in all this getting better and if these people can't just let go of that And figure it out and start trying to

[01:04:48] Spencer: Make it better instead of infighting it's going to be really difficult and then on the other end of the spectrum i mean you just have just complete Like the self is real because it's just how american society is Yeah i mean we're never really turned we're never taught to turn back on ourselves like it's not even i mean i was i was what 26 before i even like ever really Truthfully thought about like what am i what it what is this like what does it mean to be a conscious being like those sorts of things and then it's you know again it's destabilizing but you know i think a lot of people are pushed towards that way i think a lot of people are pushed towards spirituality push towards trying to solve their mental health issues or their um you know things that they're Identifying with overly that are Creating their personal reality creating their personality uh

[01:05:41] Jacob: And it's harming them like so it's like you your belief systems and the things that you think that you are the things you identify with uh can start to harm you and you could notice this and that's for me that's like what a spiritual awakening kind of started as is this uh this you know ending of like what the **** is going on like why is this happening in my brain like why am i thinking this way blah you read a bunch of you start reading a bunch of you know books and podcasts and lectures and all these things and you kind of learn oh like it was actually way behind me it was it was actually it's one of these um

[01:06:15] Spencer: It's one of these things that have like so learning that you're not the thing that you identify with is like looking into uh you're inside a house and the lights on behind you and you're looking out the window and suddenly you're able to like okay i'm seeing nothing but the outside i'm looking at my car outside and you can shift your perspective to notice the reflection behind you and you're seeing your tv and your couch and your living room and the light behind you it's kind of like that like learning about this uh this Truth that is the lack of self and lack The lack of the individual um that we are that is causing us to Fight against each other and causing us to do in groups our groups us them i'm this you are that Rather than we are everything there is this slight perception change that you can get um besides putting lsd in the water Supply how do we get the uh the basic consensus of people to kind of Realize the importance of our own self-induced psychosis reality

[01:07:15] Spencer: We have here uh do you want the comforting answer do you want me to be true um be true but then we'll have to offer Some sort of because i don't want anybody who is like depressed to be like completely um i think the way that america exists as is will not come to this realization for a very long time mostly because of some very powerful people spending a lot of money to make it not so like a lot of people spend a lot of money to collectively make sure that the working class of People don't antagonize against them really and That's why i think that uh like colleges have gotten a lot of flack because the ideas that come out of college actually challenge that authority and their ability to make money to spend a lot of money not doing that but the way that you do that is to push A hyper individualistic hard-nosed egoistic view of reality Of like black and white i am i am the Indivisible individual and this is the way that i must be a reality and that is deeply ingrained in american psyche and

[01:08:16] Spencer: I think it's going to be really hard it's going to take a really long time and a lot of real effort to get it our way and what is also hard is that the people that have actually come to these conclusions are falling for the trap on the other end of having that uh they're having like i said uh the really hyper specific worldview that you must conform to rather than being inclusionary as the actual ideas state you need to be So but i mean it's hard because we've got just such a big rift in ideology

[01:08:46] Jacob: That it's gonna be hard to come to a like a middle ground conclusion where we all work together yeah i mean that's always been the ultimate like what humans really can do best is work together you know strong together people always growing together yeah so do you think it's vicarious do you think that it's uh um uh do you think that it's

[01:09:09] Jacob: Malicious like do you think like because often when we're talking about these things i feel like what my mind wants to do i don't think it's the correct way to go i think it's kind of a waste of thought but what my mind does is i think about the evil people in the suits who they know all this ego stuff they know like how human interacts how human psychology works um and they're up there you know with the strings i know there is some extent of that but a lot of this dude i think it's nobody's staring the ship like i think this is just the way we've always been doing things has now started to like cruise control itself and we're just machinery we're running it without the ability to be like hold up like let's we have the ability we're the ones who created this thing we don't have to like just keep on rolling down the hill we could stop the damn thing uh but do You but unless it's really like some evil cabal who's uh pulling all the strings and um

[01:09:59] Spencer: Well the evil cabal is pulling all strings is straight up just billionaires it's just ceos i mean because all the propaganda pushed or all the money i mean if you go look up the Koch brothers they've spent billions of dollars making sure that america stays this hyper individualistic austere society so they don't have to give people more rights more time off more money and because what happens when people get more time and more money is they self-actualize because they don't need to work as much you have time to ponder and then you come to a lot of conclusions that hey things are not how they ought to be and then you destabilize how they make money and that i really think i mean that's like really a baseline tenant of Marxism Is just giving people this room to self-actualize by not exploiting them and i think that's why it's so scary for The people that hold power so until we can collectively figure out that we're just all being exploited and we need more time to self-actualize it's going to be hard because you need to self-actualize to get there a little and

[01:10:58] Spencer: Keep going keep going well i think a lot Of it falls on the k to 12 education more than anything Is we're not taught epistemological skills you're not taught about metaphysics you're not how to perceive reality in new and interesting ways and come to new conclusions which inherently makes you really rigid so you reject ideas that are not absolutely insular to how you believe And america tends to have a very black and white view of reality very objective there's no relativity It's just this is this and this is this there is No bending in that you know i think i Think some of my riffs that come up or my tips rather is we're

[01:11:42] Spencer: Teaching young people i mean i don't know how you know consecutive and how you know distributed it really is but we are teaching people now at the young age and those k through 12 like all this gender study stuff or all you know things in that realm and it's not true is that not is that not true that's just what i've heard no people are just so a lot of these people i actually looked into this that's really not taught in schools at all like the only thing that would be touched on now because like trans activism is real is that gender is a social construct which it is and i can prove to you after this but no it's like Kind of a niche college thing but the people that don't want this destabilization will rail and lament against it because

[01:12:21] Spencer: It just is like it causes you to make less money it's just this whole thing um more it's more of the looky let's argue about gender and let's go let's talk about this it's like why aren't we let's talk about the things that are important let's teach people at a young age how to think what it means uh what holism means how to take care of your bodies because we have like what over half of america 60 something percent of america is like super obese and unhealthy

[01:12:51] Spencer: Somebody makes a lot of money on making that happen no do you think that it's conscious do you think like if i went to the ceo of like the person making the calls i mean there's such a big organization at this point there's probably hundreds if not thousands but i went to like the head honcho the creme de la creme the main guy of coke and i'm like hey man give me 10 minutes and i'll tell you how you're ruining everybody and you're going to kill the whole world like is do you think he's even like ever thought about that do you think he's actually like evil do you think he's just doing the thing where he was trained to go to college after school and he's following the things and he does his job and he's like well hey i'm within the law like his brain may not even be able to think on the level of humans being one species but more rather he's just such an individual he's such a Rigorous ego that he has inability to see what

[01:13:41] Spencer: The **** going on and what he's doing um i firmly believe that is absolutely malicious and i don't think they were born like that i think the system that we have in place uh really just encourages people to be like that because what is the number one and only goal of the corporation you make money you make money that's it that's all you do that's literally there is no political agenda really it's just we need to keep society As is stable so we need to keep a really narrow world view nice and stable and then we need to make money because what cigarettes lobbied to doctors uh the sugar industry paid like 50k in the 60s to uh discredit fad As being the problem like companies over and over and over Have shown that they have so many examples of this and i actually really want to talk about this because this gets railed on it's like all these liberal corporations they're doing won't cancel culture look they say trans people exist which It's like people will just get so upset about corporations being

[01:14:43] Spencer: These liberal hellholes quote unquote but let's look at this let me let's present this i don't know How to do this on soon but i'm going to try because here's some examples to show you that there is just um Will you let me screen share um

[01:15:03] Jacob: You can share all participants yeah cool I think that should be able to do okay yeah like bottom line They will just pick whatever Okay so sure I'll present this can you see this oh yeah all right so let's take a look at this so people Got mad about corporations hanging the pride flag and all their logos look what they did in the middle east where it's uh really not socially acceptable to be gay no this is a actually a definitive This is actually a definitive virtue signal yeah some people are like hey These corporations are doing all this canceling look how liberal they are Look at that they need to make money and most people like 65 percent of people have left-leaning views in america statistically so you're appealing to majority this is on the front edge of society coca-cola and ford both worked rigorously with the nazis more than anyone else more than any other company they sold fanta to nazi germany Okay and then look at this one Hey i think coke casually dropped a singular and uh a singular they into that ad uh

[01:16:23] Jacob: Denoting that they're using they instead of he or she to be inclusionary yes glad you noticed parker we value and celebrate diversity And then the same week coca-cola accused of funding colombian death squads okay it seems like a **** Movie plot so do you think that they care about anything but profit not literally nothing and that's just the way society is constructed okay but how do we see this as a like this is a problem like we can't continue to do this i know this is the way things are and it's like well hey that's capitalism man like i mean dude what's the answer So if you i'm gonna say that's what we're supposed to be figuring out like i think that a lot of smart people did figure it out and if you go look at any like modern socialist thinkers like They're down for egalitarianism they Also are like highly ecologically concerned So it constructs society in a more stable way that is concerned about um not lighting it on fire and Obviously these people shouldn't have the keys they don't care

[01:17:33] Jacob: About anything but profit they and oh that's uh another slide that i would like to show but they don't care about anything for profit that's their only goal they have stakeholders so they will in its short term they will Literally let the world burn just to make extra Money next year and they do it the ocean is on fire this Week so to say that corporations are these like liberal paradises and these absolute insular messes is i think kind of silly You know we're being pointed where again we're being told what to what to pay attention to and we're missing out on another important thing all effort is just to insulate Profit that's it all of it they don't believe in anything they don't care about anything it's just did we make more money than last quarter besides us pointing out like okay coca-cola is evil they suck down with coca-cola like what is the one Higher meta step behind this like why is this a

[01:18:33] Jacob: Problem because i think that we get caught up with like hey here's the bad guys and i think a lot of people might be thinking like cool let's just you know let's just cancel coca-cola let's just let's just boycott coca-cola let's just what like what's the what's the bigger problem here and how could it be like reeled back into you know the average well i actually just wanted to show this to show that corporations are apolitical And that it's not any one corporation needs to be demonized the structure that allows corporations to exist in this space must be altered right there yeah exactly that sentence right there is very personal i'm not mad at any one corporation i mean i'm mad at all of them but fundamentally we construct the society where the win condition is make more money so we need to remake the win condition Which is maximize human like prosperity Not make more money because we have Starving people in america the richest nation that's ever existed and this happens so if we can't reconstruct society to

[01:19:33] Jacob: Where the goblins don't have all the gold and just make more gold how is anyone gonna ever be actualized how is everyone gonna live a good life because it's just rank exploitation and This happens this is what actual virtue Signaling is this is the real clinical definition of a virtue signal do you think do you think that there's a way they programmed a bot in an algorithm to virtue signal that hard like it's like at this point they know social psychology so well like they definitely have their hands in the pockets of whatever science they need to be able to get a hold of whatever data they need to have to form some sort of algorithm that would like directly you know uh i don't know Into what society cares about the most right now and they They literally have infinitesimal Amounts of money like unfathomable amounts of capital and they can have people know all this stuff they got pr teams just to keep up on it Like this is so calculated and then uh

[01:20:38] Jacob: Just because it's on the next slide i do uh i do want to talk about this because we run into some interesting conflicts People talk about tolerance and free Speech this is the paradox of tolerance so in order to be to remain tolerant and to remain a Tolerant society you must be intolerant to intolerance which is I you people i see people say the left Is intolerant but they're just being intolerant to Intolerance a lot of times and that comes down to a lot of unconscious buying and social conditioning on people that may have uninspected some things so if you see okay so i guess we'll go Over conscious bias as well let's see if i don't mess this up i've heard this recently all right So a young woman is going into surgery Um she leaves her dad is at work At home and uh she uh Wakes up from surgery and says And here's a voice like Uh daughter It's like well what did what did the surgeon look like to you Because if you imaged a man

[01:22:00] Jacob: It couldn't be your dad was at home the mother is a surgeon but the unconscious bias there would be you associate surgeons with being men so you pictured a man even though in this story you already were totally aware that her father was at home so it's like Sometimes the conclusions that we just come to we didn't consciously choose but they actually have some interesting bias and ramifications and need to be in inspected yeah so Those are also things that are so subtle that they're not always profound Realizations they're like very you could really notice and skip right back oh you can keep plowing through sometimes with this it's just the smallest speed bump you kind of notice this even got me a very Very inclusionary person i got hit by This one too i imaged a man which is just this is how deeply ingrained a lot of it is and when

[01:22:55] Jacob: Some people are when you're being intolerant to intolerance and the intolerance you're being intolerant to doesn't understand that it's being intolerant it's going to cause a lot of issues because it's just like what do you mean how like you're the one being intolerant and we get into this like pissy infighting And like who gets silenced whose opinion Doesn't get to get hurt who gets canceled you know it's and i Would think that whoever's person who backs down unfortunately yeah It's like whose idea um i guess we just need to come to Fundamental principles about what we want society to be and we can't conclude them because there's just a like a lot of ape machine machinery like unconscious bias and a Lot of this uninspected world view that is really just smashing together Yeah i mean i think that it's being greatly accelerated i think that we need to look at um you know not just internet not just technology but really phones and like how much that really has You know our not just social media but

[01:23:58] Jacob: Really phones like we are all of this was going to be a problem regardless like it's just something that would have eventually happened with this thing that we've created here uh but it's it has been like really rapidly Excelled and now you know Here we are noticing that you know again Seeing the writing on the walls that we can't continue to go this way what i'm what i'm proposing spencer is like how do i think within the next five years we're going to have to address this not just contemplate it not just Like i get that we're just you know random dudes and this is not a big giant podcast or anything but like the they're we need to change our narrative about what we're talking about in our pop culture because our pop culture is how of uh changes and effects and things are Pushed or ushered anyway yeah so i will actually i'm gonna interject a little bit so it's funny because um ideas of modernity Set narratives like um i mean any idea

[01:24:58] Spencer: I'll just we're talking about Marxism narratives is the owner and ruler classes fight with the working class right it's a power struggle that's the narrative that is set up um but post-modernism sets meta Narratives so it analyzes a bunch of ideas and tries to conjoin one single narrative to come to new conclusions but and i think that we got to get on

[01:25:19] Jacob: The same page like you said in a lot of ways the problem is we're having at least in

[01:25:25] Spencer: Political philosophy we're having a really interesting rift because it's really akin to America i think america is really susceptible to this but like pre-world war ii italy like you Have a you have one set of uh beliefs that are Like incredibly left-leaning they're very egalitarian we want to bolster the working class unionize we want to strip the owners of society from their wealth and distribute it right this would be the socialist communist whatever you want to call it the left-leaning ideology and then we have the right side so it's um categorized by Like hyper-nationalism uh stark individuality and um just like a massive in group And that we like we are the we're the greatest as a nation and we must come together and be very strong as individuals and uh any out group of this needs to be ostracized and we must be really potent And these ideas don't work well together they're polar opposites so as the friction so this is in Marx's Theory as well so capitalism is inherently unstable and it

[01:26:34] Spencer: Will eventually fail to get to the latest stages where we're having we're having total systemic failure which we are now so we have all our all our institutions are corrupt um politicians aren't doing any of their work people are being exploited it's hard to live and it's causing a lot of friction and there's two ways it can go it can go to the socialist way where we Decide that we need to separate all of this money and push it all to the working class unionize and build up a more egalitarian society or it can turn into fascism which is that hyper-nationalistic like It italy in 1942 and many Philosophers political philosophers have thought this was the case fat both fascists and socialist philosophers have thought this would happen and i think let me look at the divide in america right now like look at look at the hyper spectrum of response to the systemic failing of like actually Identitative liberal values which is something more than being liberal in america i don't really want to go into it but like so now we have a huge

[01:27:40] Spencer: Problem there's a big rift and like people have thought about this forever people knew this was gonna happen and what happens on the other side of it is just i don't know i don't know where i'm going with this but yeah dude i yeah again i think we get to this point where we just need we need some you know mother we need Some alpha you know uh you know i mean that in a female way too like so we need somebody to stand up and go like i'm just envisioning this a bunch of **** drunk vikings in a in A mess hall just arguing and yelling and they're arguing and yelling and discussing real problems but it's escalating right now **** you and you're this and everybody's just yelling and then we're having a food fight blah we need somebody to stand up and just like hey stop yes there's problems let's sit Down and actually solve them what we're doing the way we're speaking to one another the things that we're doing right now is unhelpful stop like stop being such

[01:28:35] Spencer: Monkey minds and let's actually use like this very powerful you know tool that we have Yeah and i so i dabbled in pretty extreme Perspectives of political opinion just to like just to test them out and um i've come Kind of full circle to more of a meta-analysis of this i actually Just whatever will achieve the Principles that i wish to happen in society i don't care what you really call it but society has to work for everyone and If it doesn't work for one group it's going to be really bad So we can't really agree on the problems Because there's a lot of like propaganda and just public agitation About so on one hand you have The news who says some news sites say Hey you're feeling agitation it's hard to get work you're underpaid um it's not because this is like just a

[01:29:35] Spencer: System that just is built like this and you're being exploited by your by the ceo is making billions of dollars it's actually mexicans it's actually people coming across the border they're taking your jobs so now we've found there's a pain point and we have two really different solutions and somebody's paid a lot of money to make it that way so it's what are you doing yeah how do you how do you deconstruct that because you just are blasted you're blasted with propaganda

[01:30:02] Spencer: Yeah it's exactly like we're busy fighting about the dumb things and we're fighting about them in dumb ways and there has to be some sort of snap out of it situation that's what i'm thinking like i don't know i mean i don't know what that could possibly mean or do maybe that's what this whole alien thing ploy is maybe it is going to be what is it project bluebeam or whatever they were talking about where they're gonna project some aliens and it's gonna give us an excuse to come together as a human species and fight the bad aliens and then we'll be like oh yeah we did need some sort of war event to make us realize what's truly important and how to come together and that we have a future if we just plan on it yeah this uh really got routed in the political discussion and i want to apologize but it's just like the nature of this first off but i don't actually know if that was apologize for that i appreciate your

[01:30:46] Spencer: Perspective on you know you bring politics into it and it's something that i don't dabble into as much so i think that my like messy creative side uh or you Know perception of these same things creates a fun uh yeah i don't i don't like to do it from the average Like um this is my stance believe it i would rather do it from a power dynamic in philosophy stance because i actually think that's how we come to conclusions but on the sake of the alien thing i think That we would come together and get right back to fighting i think that until we can figure out the um ape strong together that we will Always go back to resorting to that Because we just have so much stuff so much like all the social constructs that have just been put in place over a Millennia have just remained like race um Just stuff like that is really Not real but we put a lot of thought into

[01:31:43] Spencer: And it's divisive it's a reason to other people and that's just like innate to our biology until we can get enough friction in society to realize that this doesn't serve us i don't think it's gonna go away but i do think that friction is coming and i think that maybe some of the stuff That's coming out of universities is kind of pushing on the boundaries of what society could probably deal with right now when it comes to fluidity but i do think the demolition of a lot of social constructs for a more fluid society will be helpful in the Long run because then we have less stuff to differentiate each other on you have less others if everything's fluid So i think i think canceled culture can Just be considered more of god more of gossip like it's It cancel culture it can be more gossip Than like it's not actual problem solved

[01:32:39] Jacob: We think it's problem solving we think that we're actually finding the boogie man like you had stated before we're finding the boogeyman and we're all right there he is let's **** lock him up but it's a distraction it is gossip I literally think of i go i have a

[01:32:54] Spencer: Small amount of our friends on snapchat um i go on there and obviously like as soon as i see the story page you start seeing these tabloids and i will i'm addicted to my damn phone and all the pretty colors so i scroll and i'll look for uh you know a few seconds and there's always like you'll never believe what so and so did you'll never believe what kanye west said so and so leaked and it's gossip it's tabloids it's uh it's a like we want to know what's going On i think we need to like as individuals as just consumers of all Of this cool exciting fun flashy phone exciting

[01:33:29] Spencer: You know made like a slot machine this cool thing is distracting us and making us dummies it's making us care about dummy stuff like we why do we give a flying f about what so-and-so is doing what so-and-so is saying i get that not everybody's going to have the interest of like hey we've got real problems and we need to solve it but there does need to be more people more of the general public focusing on things of importance because it'll change what they think about what they talk about what they do what they study uh what they spend their time doing and in turn that creates more people who are able to cognitively actually solve these problems in our near future

[01:34:06] Jacob: Yeah and i agree i think it's hard Because i can't expect anyone to spend all their time ruthlessly analyzing their thoughts because it's super exhausting and i know a bunch of people that just would never enjoy that's fine it's just what i enjoy and i can't really expect all of people to do it but i would really like it if more people

[01:34:24] Jacob: Stopped feeding into it and just like cared how their neighbors were doing at the end of the day you know like hey we're like all suffering and it's pretty obvious and we're really focusing on this one thing but like what are our commonalities how do we all suffer under the system why are we focusing on these big hot button Jake Paul is getting canceled and now everyone there's just so much human attention put into something that's so **** frivolous like when like your co-workers are getting exploited because you don't talk about wages together but you're worried about Jake Paul yeah for real like hey is it because it's easier it's because it's served to us in a dish it's because it's like this instant dopamine hit it's this instant like hey you feel good and this feels like a distraction this feels like i mean this is like an addictive behavior this is like i really want to you know take care of all these things on the weekend but instead i'm going to drink because that's what i always do every weekend

[01:35:15] Jacob: You know it's these sort of things i'm saying that from my personal experience like we become these Sack of habits and especially it's this instant sag habits like snapchat and uh not Snapchat social media our the corporate press our news media um our technology is really giving All these mother efforts access to our Beat holes and they're just tunneling through the magic of technology and putting their hands up our butts and moving our mouths for us and telling us what to talk about and what to do and what to think and who to argue with and who's the enemy and who's good and who's bad and all these things but we need to i Think just watch out watch out and be aware and control and uh again i'll use the word just aware i think it's the best be aware of how our technology is changing us and changing our discourse towards things that are unimportant and we need to more so allow like our actual intelligence our actual you know intuitive feeling and following

[01:36:14] Jacob: Things like hey this doesn't feel right but we can't have access to that because we're constantly distracted by what they're telling us to fight about what they're telling us to argue about what they're telling us is important they're saying hey here's your identity it's being threatened so it's actually destabilizing and that's a real thing but we need to go from there recognize that and say okay now i understand that my identity Is being threatened but what is my identity what does it really mean how does it equate to a difference in the person across from me how is this actually helpful to the betterment in the future of our children and grandchildren and the great grandchildren after that yeah well i think the first step is actually caring about others

[01:36:51] Jacob: You know you got to actually care about others you know you have to think about more than your myopic worldview that in your own self-actualization to what you think reality is you need to come to terms the fact that the way you perceive reality and your baseline existence is just not how others are and in fact others might suffer and until you can step out of this insular always internal position and look at the World around you and realize things are not how they ought to be it's gonna be very hard to come to that conclusion i can i want to interject where you're going i'm sorry i was just thinking i think this is a good important thing uh a good practice For this a good like uh way for an average person to actually

[01:37:34] Spencer: Do this and by this i mean um care for one another like how could you truthfully care for other people more like maybe people listening to this are nihilistic and they **** hate people and they just want to hang out themselves and they think people suck and it's hard to care about anybody about themselves because maybe that's how they were taught since they were a young person maybe they were taught to just look out for themselves um or maybe they just don't really have them really thought about it like it's not that they hate other people but they just don't it's like i'm doing my thing and i literally have no time to concentrate on what other people are doing these are the people yeah that's what's going on these are the people that i saw like a couple weeks ago i saw this guy i was driving down the road and uh he rolls down his truck window and he takes a big old lot of taco bell garbage and just throws it out on the Freeway and i think it's not that he's being he's unconscious he doesn't realize like

[01:38:17] Spencer: The bigger effects that he's having on things so what i would like to do For people for people who are listening i think a good practice is uh what would be called meta loving Kindness meditation i'm not saying you have to actually do this meditation but it is something try to insert a thought like this that i'm about to explain into your daily life it's almost something that prayer can even access with a lot of people so whatever your version of prayer or mantra or meditation add this into it try to bring it into your thought system once a day basically uh it's difficult

[01:38:53] Jacob: To bring in things like self-love right away like you're sitting on the cushion and it's like all right think about yourself and how much do you love yourself but it's so hard to have access to so what they do in meta loving kindness meditation is You um you sit and you become present and you do take the beginning time to concentrate on your breath you become um Here and now you kind of get in tune with your five senses you kind of slow down your thought process you increase your concentration and then what you do is you think about um just someone that You have an uncomplicated relationship with that you love like one of one of your friends one of your friends back home one of your childhood friends one of your current friends maybe it's maybe it's your dog and just kind of just think about them and think about them try to visualize them in your mind think about them being happy think about them being um you know successful like truthfully Really think about like one of your very good friends and

[01:39:47] Jacob: Just think about okay if i could i would give Them everything they ever wanted like if i was somehow in control of their like financial and you know Uh future happiness i would give that to Them and you'll notice you're sitting here and you just continue kind of thinking visualizing this person and wishing them well you're wishing them success and then you can kind of think about them as like man they were of course i want them to do well like they were i know their childhood experiences i know that they were one times six Years old and then they were seven years old and then they were eight and they were a whole person they were born they have a family they have a mother they have a father all these things so you can essentially With meta meditation um eventually you can get to a point where you kind of get you're able to think about yourself in this way and it brings this very Nice ease this soft um hereness to your being

[01:40:44] Jacob: But with practice of thinking about people that you certainly do love and you really think about them on a holistic time when you think about them on a they were a child once and they've had they had to get a driver's license and take a driver's permit and they have they wake up every morning and all my neuroses and all the things that i think about they have their own version of them they have their own struggles and they have their own desires and all these things uh it really creates this softness in you and you not only appreciate the people that you do love and the people that you are bringing to mind your family members and your friends and your loved ones but you're also able to now project that onto strangers you can really look at your neighbor like you were saying we need to love our neighbors more you look at your neighbor and you're like yeah oh he's just he has his own experiences he had his own childhood he had his own upbringing like

[01:41:27] Jacob: He is who he is because of the things that have happened and you can find appreciation we're not Meeting them because with this study of or this practice of meta-loving kindness you can kind of more meet people uh on where you see them Uh truly rather than where you disagree with them like whether you see them as a being and you see them as a whole long term they're going to die one day and their parents are going to pass away one day if they haven't already like they're going to deal with extreme suffering of some Level you can really bring in a It pushes away this hey your neighbor is Actually a this what the news tells you our social Media our technology tells us your neighbor is this you miss that they're also the same Thing you are they're love they're a family member they're a son they're their child they're a father they're you miss out on all these things so anyway that's my quick side step on meta loving kindness meditation you can practice it on your friends and it actually increases your ability to love other people in the world

[01:42:30] Jacob: Yeah i will actually give you a school Of thought or a systemic way to think that well you might arrive at the same conclusion if uh you don't wish to do that or do both so If i can propose that free will is not Completely free and you don't always um Choose all your uh outcomes and actions you didn't necessarily pick the uh operating system that you've uh Been operating under for your whole life So if you just are a collection of thoughts and ideas that have kind of been handed to you if you can see that in other people you

[01:43:08] Spencer: Can look at their surroundings and realize how they came to these conclusions and they didn't necessarily choose any of them probably actively and logically it can make a lot of sense why they did because this is the exposure they had and it's not necessarily a slight on them it's more of a systemic problem so we have these things in place that have shown these people these things and images and these are the conclusions that they didn't arrive at on their own and instead of being angry at this Person for concluding these things and which they were given you can look at the system as a whole and figure out hey where do we mess up What is what is the influence

[01:43:47] Jacob: Yeah we are we're so again i feel like Yeah you pointed the same thing we're distracted by the incorrect things like it's not that one thing is more true than the other maybe there is truth in all of it maybe your neighbor is this or that but it's not the only thing about them and it's not the first place to meet them because that's not how you solve problems you're just going to argue or gossip or waste time if you Meet them on where they lack or what they're doing correctly yeah i guess i'm getting it i'm sorry for the interruption but as just as a lot of the ideas that i presented earlier predicate on thinking systemically rather than that about the individual so you can look thing from a sociological curious standpoint so if you look at the

[01:44:29] Jacob: Total human thought that's going on in a certain system or society you can pinpoint where these things are coming from and rather than being upset of one person for believing this you can analyze the system and then you actually become a lot more empathetic to these people because they didn't necessarily choose this you were just like a reacting to these things you are being nurtured into believing this so usually Trying to change the frame of reference In which they would think about these things is going to be way more helpful than just being mad at them for believing them as ridiculous as it is because it's really unhelpful to be extremely mad at somebody for believing something that you find to be heinous maybe even Because the system that generated them Still stands so right dude i think actually

[01:45:17] Spencer: What you just said i it's actually really cool that we just stumbled into systems thinking while talking about cancel culture because i think that's actually a great that's a great like uh like uh rope Down the hole you know because i think that there is Something profound you and i are systems thinkers but there is something profound that happens people who are not systems thinkers they never really realized it was an option or thought about it um like it could really change A lot of the of your way of thinking like if you learn about systems thinking there was some youtube um i think honestly if you probably even just type in like what is systems thinking and you watch a couple of those older lectures there's some great stuff on there man so what is just to overly drill in the hole on systems thinking what is systems thinking and how does it help us uh better solve problems Okay so systems thinking is a meta-analysis of the uh social constructs what's meta

[01:46:13] Spencer: Uh i use it in a different way a holistic overview from varied points of view of analyzing something to come to a greater conclusion so like There are systems in place and they have outcomes this is like sociology touches on this like just Sociological data so i mean i guess i can look at any systemic problem so if you have a group of people that are constantly having the same outcome under the same circumstances with no intervention it's more than likely a systems problem and you're not actually going to be able to solve it without a systemic solution So and that is way different than the you did bad you need to do better as an individual because that doesn't really solve any problems it doesn't so many problems if you can't alter the system to change the outcomes you're not going to make large changes so thinking about systems as a whole is the only way to actually elicit any real change So this is this is immediately makes me

[01:47:10] Spencer: Think that we need to grab pitchforks and go to the street though so what do we really do like is this just a like well you know that's Politics though and what you got to do if you really want to make some changes you got to go down to your local governing system and you know and i'm not trying to mock that and i think that's a good that's a great thing but uh it does seem like I don't know that this problem can be solved by mere politics alone at this point um i think it can i really do think it Can but it needs to actually have a concerted top bottom down effort how do we how do We put a shaman into the room of politicians Then we could we could do this right how do we how do we hire a monk to be a part of our law making system and he has to be a vital we have a round table of people like That don't require power they don't seek it out and they never

[01:48:02] Spencer: Will that's why this has to be a grassroots ground up thing and i think it is semi-problematic that's why i think the individualistic solution to political problems is troubling Because if i can just tell you need to pick yourself up by your bootstraps all your problems are your fault there are no other factors you didn't succeed in this perfect meritocracy because you did bad there are no other factors that's problematic when i can go look at you can predict somebody's living where they live by Looking at their great grandparent zip code and statistically it's likely for them to still live there so if you tell me that systems thinking

[01:48:42] Spencer: And system solutions aren't actually the thing i don't know what would be because obviously if a meritocracy was real people would move a lot more there'd be way more mobility so this i need to pull myself off my bootstraps method it doesn't actually work at all it doesn't get anything done nobody you can't do it actually the funny thing is that's an old soviet joke because you literally can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps that's doesn't mean possible i know it's actually a spiritual point or two if you really think about it like uh yeah so So figuring out the systemic change that Needs to happen on a large scale getting everyone together and then pushing the people in power to do it because at the end of the day who really holds power it's people we hold power we just have Been isolated we've been alienated as Marx would say from understanding our true potency and Our hyper individuals individualistic society has uh only Propagated that rather than because we think that ape strong alone but ape is strong together

[01:49:44] Spencer: But we can't conclude this because half of us think are like bootstraps not in systems

[01:49:51] Jacob: Right yeah so i think it is so do you think that the average like the average listener let's say do you think it like what can we point out then like um it's important to think system well you just need to have an increase well you don't need to but it certainly would help in analyzing the world and people other people's pain points especially protected class of people that just have an innate sense of sociological curiosity so a lot of times you Like so let's see any predicted Class let's see african americans so they've got worse outcomes than other races in America do you think that's because every african-american just didn't bootstrap it or is it because maybe a system that is in place disadvantages this group of people more than others

[01:50:37] Spencer: It's thinking like that so like and that's actually like critical race theory actually is that's it's just systems thinkings uh like pressed upon race and usually thinkers who are into hyper individualism really don't like it

[01:50:52] Jacob: Right yeah did you go over did you go

[01:50:57] Spencer: Over critical race theory that's it that's all it is really it's just trying to look at um I mean critical theory in general is this but using a sociological lens To look at um problems in society and Impressing systemic changes to get better outcomes rather than you need to do better Yeah so yeah i guess systems thinking is going to point out because we do need to it's just another case of yes but you Need to look broadly as big as possible yeah and that's what We so how do we have a How do we get an entire species on a Planet to continue backing out of their **** and really go meta how do we how do we all have an agreement of Being the eagle being able to take a glance like we don't have to all remain there the whole time but there does need to be some sort of boom like hey oh yeah we're all one and that is important because this Yeah i don't know i'm always asking the impossible no answer questions i understand that i'm a total ironically after what i just told you

[01:52:06] Spencer: Um you be individually thinking about Things like this So more individualism yeah because it's Not necessarily bad it's actually good in a self-help context it's just bad in a political sense so if slowly over time you can get more and more people to adopt a way of thought that actually leads to better outcomes you'll receive those outcomes and i think conversations like this are how it happens slowly over time and people are waking up to it i mean like sixty percent of young people like really question the uh hard-nosed Austere way that like american politics and american Thought is gone and it's because of suffering because people have been suffering like there is there is a call and it is being answered it's just it's gonna take a while and i firmly and i know i've been pretty nihilistic for this whole talk but i really believe this over all of

[01:52:58] Spencer: History more people have had more rights and more liberty over time forever it's always gotten better it's always gotten better and although sometimes we have dips in this it just continues because people that fight for this don't just stop they don't stop a gay marriage they don't just stop at workers rights they don't stop at the eight hour work week this just always gets better okay but Okay i was just thinking uh kind of back to the coca-cola thing like you have more than more rights than ever But like your brain is like your brain Chemicals are being uh scientifically studied and then used against you like you have every right to drink as much coca-cola as you possibly could want forever but then there's also This other thing of but you know you're gonna die But we're gonna get you so addicted to it that you know or it's gonna make you sick in these ways or it's gonna like there is this god it's so Hard because you want to like you start choosing freedoms but it seems Like we're almost unable to like i see how frust like i

[01:54:04] Spencer: I'll literally sit down in front of some food and like okay i'm only gonna eat this amount of it and then sure enough i'll eat the whole thing and then whatever i'll eat something else afterwards like the self-control i have every right to eat all these things but i do also see how it's harming me and i don't seem to be able to stop you know it's like we're all addicts of all these different things and i'm sure other people have this like with diet coke or mcdonald's or whatever it's like you have every right and you should have every right to drink as much diet coke as you want but also like it's killing people

[01:54:35] Spencer: Yeah i guess it's not exactly what i was referencing when it comes to freedom i more so just mean like you don't have to work 40 hours a week like we don't need to be that productive but on that end yeah i think that needs to be tempered with um education i think that actually fundamentally all this is an education problem and the people that pay for education i mean literally all the problems we have i think are fundamentally education problem because they uh turn out a populist that Is not introspective they don't know about Epistemology they don't know how to critically think or analyze uh the world around them in any way but the myopic ones that they've been taught to so if because if you go look at um just In metadata or like any health surveys so

[01:55:19] Spencer: The higher a level of someone's education is the more likely they are to eat well that's it yeah so this is and i don't think that is just because these people are special i think they've just been exposed to enough thought to come to these conclusions right and we just need to expose young people to that but the problem is people a lot of money spend a lot of money to make sure that doesn't happen Yeah we're god dude we're seriously taught what to think not how to think in so many ways well and by design too by design it's not like an accident Because if you have people that think if you have a populist of things really critically they question a lot of all the **** that goes on and if you question **** that destabilizes authority and authority has one goal maintain power right that's it one goal maintain power So our power dynamics of how we socially um construct our existence as human beings on planet earth is going to have its own self-destruct Feature that's just on a time it's just a time bomb is really that's all

[01:56:25] Spencer: Yeah i guess we'll know we'll know the solutions uh as they come about so okay so in the meantime you know looping back to cancel culture and what can everybody as individuals do um work on your damn self and look At these things look at these things don't take them so face value like don't just listen to what the corporate press and to what all these you know phone apps and stuff are telling you or what uh what the popular video that day is

[01:56:51] Jacob: Like because that's gonna make you feel righteous and make you feel like yeah i believe that too i'm on the right side but it's not exactly like just question it Just question a little bit more like who put that there how is that full circle why are we arguing about this what are things that could be possibly more important um what else do you have spencer if we Want to uh start rounding the curve of the end of this podcast here um i think that i would just i'm going to say a fair warning to people engaging in just um Youtube rabbit hole or listening to others speak um just be wary of uh language that you Don't know the definition to that's actually why i defined all those terms previously because they're extremely misused and sometimes maliciously so a really common tactic for people With any political leaning to graft their ideology onto you is to Take the words from whatever the opposition is use them improperly and all intermingled and then speak in vague enough terms for you to be able to graft your idea onto it

[01:57:54] Jacob: So now they convince you to not like a bunch of stuff that you don't know about and speak vaguely enough without defining terms to then in turn just agree with them so it's tricky scaffolding from an elusive smart person yeah and it's just how People are able to slowly inundate you

[01:58:13] Spencer: With their personal ideology and it may not be malicious and it may be malicious but this is just a thing that happens so just be wary of someone if you can deconstruct somebody's sentence and you realize they didn't really say anything didn't say anything they choose a bunch of buzzwords and they're speaking in like a lot of really loose metaphorical terms that don't ever hard answer or heart knows answer questions uh i would not say to devalue them but definitely introspect and go figure out what they're talking about what are these things that they're criticizing what does the opposition think and where do i fit in Don't just go look at it to confirm what you already believe don't really look at it go really look at what this whatever is being criticized because then you can at least round out your view because you either come to terms of the fact that you don't like it and he's right or he or she is right or Hey maybe there's some nuance to this

[01:59:06] Spencer: And now you have a multi-perspective viewpoint of something that was pretty myopic in the first place due to whatever you're listening to i have another door that i just opened up thinking about this uh

[01:59:19] Jacob: Do you think there's any issues here with how our information ecology is combined with our Entertainment structure yes 100 yes it's mostly just because of the nature of the internet so if you can be as broadly appealing as Possible and use that really flowery beautiful language and trick people into thinking that you're like a root like an intelligent person not just like a pseudo intellect you can really collect a lot of people And then that hits people like it when you use really fluttery language they don't like to get into the weeds they just like want you to sound smart and agree with them a lot of i feel like i speak Rather inconcisely i'm a very like sloppy uh um like I don't know i feel like i almost fall into this category of like don't listen to people like me because i'm kind of just but we also i mean we also one Don't claim to be two don't hold any power and three just want to do good stuff

[02:00:21] Jacob: You know like intense it's just different when you like are a monolithic intelligent person in society and then you still do this right you know like i feel like it's pretty obvious that i'm just like a guy Just figuring it out and i have no malicious intent i just want society to be better but smarter devils than i have whipped up more loose language to fool a lot of people and garner a really big following and then take money from them really most people are trying to sell books you know but i feel like that's the i Would wear that on a shirt most people are trying to sell books That's real though that's that is real um look okay this is a tangible like look at self-help it's like the same six ideas just recycled between like some just barely

[02:01:10] Jacob: Different framing and whoever can just like get the hit get enough popularity to make the book with the six ideas wins they just keep going yeah i mean it is all kind of pointing at the same thing but as someone who has been interested and fairly enveloped and self-help since i was like 16 like i've always it is Dude it's very interesting to me because so for it is pointing to a lot of the same ideas but how we get there how we understand what the person's talking about very much has to do with our own Upbringing like for me i feel like i wasn't taught very much by Adults like i kind of had to teach myself everything i just had a an upbringing that put me as a solo

[02:01:51] Jacob: Independent person fairly early and so for me when i was able to discover like the self-help section and discover like the self-development books in the library i was like whoa i get to like learn things that i didn't get it you know i didn't have it my dad didn't teach me these things that other people got to get got to be taught so i get to learn them i uh so Uh oh man how would i be less selfish With what i was trying to say um i S self-help i'm not trying to defend Self-help i feel like that's where i fell into um But i do i do see like the self-help um There's a lot of different ways there's a lot of different rivers that lead to the same lake and i Think that germany yeah but So okay so the common Common ground here is uh is choosing a like just following

[02:02:45] Jacob: A path like whatever if it means that you read 100 self-help books that's cool but if it means you read six and you get the gist of it that's cool too but follow a path towards self-improvement self-betterment and trust that your path is the right path for you yeah but i will say a fair word to the I will warn everyone this so in america A lot of the self-help that is written is strictly for corporate productivity That's it's just how do you be more productive and i think that is really missing the forest through the trees on that because we are Just like a hyper productive society more than anywhere else that is top of mind for most people is how do i get more out

[02:03:29] Spencer: Of my 40 hour work week that is probably too long anyways and that i firmly believe that is not actually really self-help at that point in time yeah you're more productive but did you learn anything about reality or yourself or come to any conclusions no you just learned how to focus for longer which is good that's good you know it's a helpful skill but it's not actually self-help i really don't think so not in the way that i would like others to engage with so i would look To eastern philosophies probably not western south western Self-help is like tim ferriss telling you need to hire a secretary to do your busy work yeah i like that you just made this definitive line between this and i really like that you brought it into like western self-help versus easter self-help because i'm definitely one who i have very much dove and into this western like productivity uh a lot

[02:04:20] Spencer: Like the garyvee sort of stuff even like you can you can even take some sort of like the spiritual law of attraction sort of stuff and apply it into that same realm of that self-help um but there also is this other side of like you're kind of eastern philosophy is like the uh Eastern self-help is like the um Self-help of philosophy it's itself like Uh it's just like slow mindful and introspective and causes you to not be hyperproductive and that's actually a good thing like hyper productivity will actually detract from self-actualization because you're spending too much time just generating gold and that is like Fundamentally at odds with all of the Stuff that self-help would really drive And it also sometimes creates this uh this problem of i think Alan Watts calls it the backwards law basically by being someone that needs to Improve by being someone who needs to do these things you're now identifying with someone of lack you're

[02:05:21] Spencer: That you're identifying as like the negative aspect the into the yang of the thing that you're trying to achieve and you're living through that like i am a person who needs to do this so that i can be Happier so that i can feel this you know completion or whatever well and the win condition for society is to be really productive too the way it's set up not to be slow and mindful you know so be like learning how to be This actually puts you fundamentally at odds with how we've constructed our economic system which is to be giga productive just Get make as much money as you can for someone else and kind of yourself and that is the opposite of the we need To really slow down really introspect and Really think about our surroundings and i think that's the big rift because like gary vee like hustle culture self-help i think is pretty harmful not helpful Mm-hmm yeah that's like uh that's like the pickup culture versus psychology you know like

[02:06:19] Spencer: Psychology is good but if you're using it just for uh picking up women like you're kind of missing the missing the point here yeah Cool well all right i mean i feel like i mean i feel like we did point to a lot of the important things on here um where are we at for you spencer what do you think how do you think we did on defining explaining um just addressing cancel culture from where it's really at like it's kind of hard like what exactly we're answering what is cancel culture and why does it affect us blah but how is this information useful to the Average consumer um like why is this something That is important and what else what do we need To reiterate or cover still on this castle culture subject do we do our thing uh i think so i don't know if this got clipped but i just really want people to be wary when they're seeing like a lot of if it's political cancel culture like rhetoric just either one somebody

[02:07:21] Spencer: Just having an idea and then getting criticism and then not liking criticism and saying this is cancel culture because that does happen pretty frequently it's like if you are Have a political id in a public space like the point is that it's up to scrutiny that's just what happens That's how it goes like if you're a large figure like your ideas have been put out there to scrutinize this is politics you've chosen to engage with this that's how it is so i wouldn't i would be it's just a bad Excuse to reject criticism is instead of actually having to hone your ideas against someone else's you just say no they're just trying to cancel me you're being too woke here it is so it insulates criticism number one i think it's important to recognize that Because it's allowed some people to live in a space where they never actually like have to elaborate or deal with any of their ideas they just point to the big scary word and people are like oh yeah you're right that is cancel culture Uh what else um I want people to be wary of when

[02:08:25] Spencer: Something is happening especially with social progress and people are labeling it as woke cancel culture to really look at the Underlying subtext of the situation so When a rights are revoked or when like when anything bad happens to any minority groups or any i mean just any people in general nobody really talks about it but like when trans people want better Rights when black people want better voting laws that don't systemically oppress them it's all of a sudden this is woke and authoritarian so be Careful at the narrative that is being displayed by people in power when it is obviously conflicting their power structures like nobody gets mad at the i mean people get mad at the catholic church but the catholic church has been doing pretty authoritarian cancel culture stuff forever people really talk about it's because it's only when the ideas really brush up against The current power structures that there is a massive fit thrown and you should look at that friction and like hey maybe there's something to this maybe there's not maybe there's a group of people that is actually being unreasonable but it's subject for inspection

[02:09:36] Spencer: My but my biggest worry of all time Definitely is the label woke and the label cancel Culture is just being used to stop civil rights From progressing it's just stopping it yeah so like if you can use some niche problem that nobody cares about to Uh red herring or take attention away from like real problems i'm pretty sure i mentioned this on the uh the pre-pod but trans people have a life Expectancy between 30 and 35 but media outlets are trying to force Trans bathroom bills is the problem and these actually are just people that are really scrutinized ostracized and Hated on in society and nobody asked for this you know Same with voting laws like stuff like that it's just there is a red herring a social friction that is being thrown in front of you to distract you from some real big systemic problems and causing infighting when we actually can probably agree on a lot of it so just be fair warned when you hear any Of the hot button words when you hear postmodern neo-Marxist

[02:10:44] Spencer: Um critical race theory like a lot of these words that seem really buzzy whoa cancel culture not saying that the person that is saying them is in bad faith or uh is necessarily Been wrong it's just subject to inspection Yeah i mean i like that i was thinking about how we uh our culture inevitably wants to memify Everything we want to like you know condense it down to these ideologies Um and we're so fast-paced and our attention spans are so quick that we just like oh yeah uh you know woke-ism or neo-Marxism and We completely think we understand it we just blaze for the next thing because we want to really condense it all down to one thing get on to the next thing um but yeah i think yeah introspectively Looking at these things uh questioning them um not Not falling into the trap of like talking about it all the time i think i think that's what's going to happen is canceled culture is going to fizzle out like meaning i think it already yeah i Think i think you're right there i mean it's uh it's feels like this was something

[02:11:49] Spencer: We were talking about for a while and it feels so much less important than just a couple months ago i'm like dude yeah it's just it's a it's a whatever i don't care about it yeah and just a lot of times in the news cycle a it's A red herring these social issues so like a few months ago when the amazon strikes were happening they hired off-duty police officers to break union rallies and then they illegally voted against the union inside to not allow workers to get rights but if you look in that time there was more than likely some other social drama meaningless dribble that was thrown in front of the public eye to distract from this real thing that's happening so yeah i mean that is a bigger problem in general like media really is going to start um i mean it start it's going to Continue to cause a lot of havoc and destruction in our society if it's not i don't know If putin check is the correct um phrase to use

[02:12:42] Spencer: But we do need to do something different about our not just the media by itself but even how we consume media and what we what we care about and talk about and think about yeah and with uh my one last thing that i would hope people would do is um now that old media is dying and There's no authoritarian place you will go to youtube you'll go to these other places where you can hear anyone talk about anything and i would really be Careful at who you give your time to and who

[02:13:10] Spencer: You're listening to as a definitive source because a lot of times like i said before we have a lot of these unconscious bias we have a lot of these things that we just innately believe and subconsciously when we hear something that we might agree with but with a little extra flavor into it we're just gonna we're just gonna go right to that but really inspect what people are actually saying like if somebody's making a claim make sure that they support it understand what is being claimed and decide if you agree with the conclusion don't let other people think for you like you'll see it and just like a lot of uh really just new sites in general You'll somebody will force you to see A problem through their world view and then come up with a lens or solution that is favorable to their cause so just hey what is this person what is the claim and what is the elaboration and conclusion of this claim

[02:14:06] Spencer: Yeah okay and i think one more important thing is just to go back to the entertainment versus like news and how it's been all meshed together entertainment versus things that are very important i think observe how your mind listens like if You're listening to someone like me i'm not someone who's ever claiming to be like the arbiter of absolute facts i don't know exactly what's going on i'm someone who i stumble through my thinking in real time um and i think that listening to me in The exact same way that you would listen to you know let's say someone that an important news anchor who's giving you something that's supposed to be considered as fact um i think it you listen to them a bit Differently like there is an openness that you need to bring into casual conversation versus this uh reality overlay that we Have of our of our news and them saying hey here's what's going on and here's what we know about it and here's what you should do about it those are things that maybe you should be uh um you know questioning at the very

[02:15:02] Jacob: Least yeah so yeah just that definitive line between entertainment and This wasn't so bad spencer no i think we

[02:15:11] Spencer: Uh we did all right we definitely touched on a lot more than i thought we were going to today but that's how it's going to be and i just for sure enjoyed it yeah it was good stuff i feel like we uh i feel like we can kind of put cancel culture to bed i mean i know we always like dabbling into anything when it comes to mind viruses or just any sort of sense making sickness um or inability to sense make as a General population we're always going to love talking about those sorts of things and we will continue to talk about those sorts of things but i'm thinking that this cancel culture thing can be put into the back seat Yeah i mean i never really i've never looked at it as really problematic i think now more than ever it is i mean it might have been a problem maybe five years ago but this is so far beyond the scope of society and what

[02:15:58] Spencer: People are actually worried about or any of these groups that you're scared of or heard bad things about or focusing on that it's just uh this is a complete red herring and non-issue and for people personally Don't worry about it don't worry about it just work on being a good person forget about it just focus on yourself

[02:16:18] Jacob: Take care of yourself who else is going to do that all right dude um well I appreciate you i appreciate your brain i appreciate your thoughts i appreciate your time um i always love uh having chats with You and i'm grateful that you're Willing to come on to the podcast and express your feelings and Thoughts and ideas and uh i mean undoubtedly Helping people you know that's what we're here to do is try to help people understand uh not saying that we are correct we're right but kind of just i like saying the Ushers of epiphany so i like to uh our

[02:16:52] Spencer: Conversations i feel like they point to things within other people's minds that they can then go oh huh i don't even think about it that way cool and maybe your life's a little bit better because of it so i appreciate you maybe truth isn't real but we're going to think about stuff anyways yeah There is no capital t in truth but we're going to look for it anyway All right all right jake welcome yeah um

[02:17:17] Jacob: Listeners have a good rest your day as usual drink a lot of water if you're not drinking a ton of water today you're a big dummy um and i hope you get Canceled so take care of yourself love yourself Stretch uh spencer uh do you have any content Online yet that you want to direct people towards yeah okay uh Everybody message spencer and Tell him that you want him to create his own channel because uh he has an important mind and perspective on these topics and i would listen to it myself to be honest so i mean and if you have any um questions about

[02:17:49] Spencer: Left-leaning political views or anything that i've discussed today or anything you want me to elaborate on you can Find me on instagram at Spencer Hicks underscore for sure just shoot me a message i'll be Happy to partly with you and even if you uh disagree with

[02:18:05] Jacob: Everything he says and he thinks and you think that um you want to debate the guy let me Know and i'll be like all right i'll i will be the middleman of this debate via this podcast if it's i mean if i do deem it to be uh important and valuable i think that would actually be kind of fun so cool All right spencer i love and Appreciate you i'll text you just here in a little bit and uh listeners i love and appreciate you just as well and uh i won't text you But i thank you for listening to the podcast and take care of yourself goodbye and Don't forget to breathe Don't forget to breathe from your belly to diaphragm and your nasal cavity Goodbye Knowledge is power