# 085 w Bachelor of Science/Masters In Human Rights Cetvies Cetvies - Censoring and Trafficking Humans

- Episode: 0085
- Date: 2022-04-11
- Duration: 1:01:32
- Guest: [Cetvies Cetvies](/guests/cetvies-cetvies/)
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-2nTupoHI
- RSS: https://share.transistor.fm/s/b69f8f5b
- Spotify (show): https://open.spotify.com/show/45J7CBdM8j29doqyBp2bFs
- Apple (show): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-junkyard-love-podcast/id1489118788

## About

Cetvies is a BSc/MA graduate in human rights single honor (from social sciences and political sciences departments)

She campaigns and writes on human trafficking and has a strong interest in human rights, LGBT, environmental rights, animal rights, veganism, politics, the news, IR, current affairs, society, philosophy, and spirituality in general.

We speak on censorship, inequality, child trafficking, the spirit of the law, the arrogance of oligarchs, freedom of speech, scrutiny of truth, and a lot more. Her website is www.inthenameofhumanrights.com

If you'd consider hitting like or giving a rating, I would be appreciative. Follow to see new episodes when posted. Much love and thanks for listening.

## Chapters

(none published in episode notes)

## Quotes

(none published in episode notes)

## Guest links (from published notes)

(none published in episode notes)

## Tags / keywords

Cetvies Cetvies, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0085, JYLP 0085, human rights, human trafficking, censorship

## Archive picks

Extracted from the YouTube auto-caption transcript and published About already on this episode. Labeled separately from Jacob’s published About / Chapters / Quotes / Hashtags.

## Memorable quotes

- [00:28:04] Cetvies: “Yeah Censorship is everywhere yeah Censorship is everywhere it's in every country when you study the capitalist Way of producing censorship and fight is Done for self-censorship there”
- [00:24:13] Cetvies: “law the law is the spirit of the law you follow the letter of the law but you spread over spirit of the law and means that if”
- [00:05:42] Cetvies: “instead of a job they are made slaves yeah and there's no there's no way for them to react in case of migrants it's um It's uh i”
- [00:01:28] Cetvies: “trafficking is that Trafficking is a new world It has been officialized only into the Year 2000 by the u. n and by the u. s this before”
- [00:55:22] Cetvies: “Advertisement is king that is to say anything you want to do whatever it is for your business or what you or it is for your organization or”
- [00:59:07] Cetvies: “it's very important to Spread the word on veganism and also I would like to spread the word about Lgbt people are put into prison for their sexual”
- [00:00:18] Cetvies: “and that as it has I read and i studied at university about human rights”
- [00:10:14] Cetvies: “department yeah there Is a three hundred thousand uh child um at risk of sexual uh um entry at risk of Sexual exploitation a year three hundred thousand”

## Chapter-style timestamps

- [00:00:00](#t-00-00-00) — Bumper — knowledge is power
- [00:00:18](#t-00-00-18) — Studying human rights / trafficking sensitivity
- [00:01:28](#t-00-01-28) — Trafficking as a recent legal concept (UN/US 2000)
- [00:05:42](#t-00-05-42) — Coercion, job-lure myths & migrant exploitation
- [00:07:20](#t-00-07-20) — US vs France — how trafficking looks locally
- [00:10:14](#t-00-10-14) — US child sexual-exploitation risk figures
- [00:14:16](#t-00-14-16) — Awareness, blogs, fake news & official sources
- [00:24:13](#t-00-24-13) — Spirit of the law / child-rights conventions
- [00:28:04](#t-00-28-04) — Censorship everywhere & China
- [00:45:34](#t-00-45-34) — Role of journalists amid fake news & conflicts

## Keywords

Cetvies Cetvies, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0085, JYLP 0085, human rights, human trafficking, censorship, child trafficking, spirit of the law, freedom of speech, inequality, oligarchs, China, journalism, veganism, LGBT, In the Name of Human Rights, Jacob Rhines

## Hashtags

#CetviesCetvies #JYLP0085 #JunkyardLove #HumanRights #HumanTrafficking #Censorship #FreedomOfSpeech #SpiritOfTheLaw #Journalism #Veganism #LGBT #JYLP

## Short guest bio (from episode speech + published links)

Cetvies Cetvies is a BSc/MA graduate in human rights (social sciences and political sciences). She campaigns and writes on human trafficking and related rights issues at www.inthenameofhumanrights.com. On this episode she talks with Jacob about censorship, inequality, child trafficking, the spirit of the law, oligarchic media power, freedom of speech, veganism, and LGBT rights — drawing on university study and campaigning experience.

## Transcript

[00:00:00] Jacob: Knowledge is power Yeah no i entirely understand that uh i tend to do the same thing listening back as i've been doing these podcast episodes i listen back to myself and i'm like i know what i was talking about but i don't think that the people listening to so um that's just fine with me so Welcome everyone welcome Cetvies I appreciate your time once again um can we just start with uh i would like to start with uh if you're willing your personal background kind of how you even got into these subjects like what led you in this direction um

[00:00:18] Cetvies: The general the direction was human rights and that as it has I read and i studied at university about human rights Uh and maybe also um Uh subject that have been sensitive to Personal experience of from having Heard stories or seen people a victim Victim of horrific situation in poor quarters for

[00:01:28] Cetvies: Example i mean in the case of human trafficking It's not it's not like a poor country's situation near live in Europe in rich countries and there is human trafficking happening Where whereas well obviously where people are more exploitable um for example um the criteria are Of being exploited Or being trafficked and this even in europe uh also what is um That uh on amplify the taboo about trafficking is that Trafficking is a new world It has been officialized only into the Year 2000 by the u. n and by the u. s this before i Was not considered a crime so for in the Example of um of sexual exploitation he was treated as Prostitution so basically um of course the term before uh Used to be slavery but uh so uh yes there are like um concepts such as rape or you know maybe coercion and so forth but he was really more confused in the law and certainly Less tackled because you the gerardic system was weak is still very weak but Was even weaker uh before sorry trafficking is um is a word by up and very recently But uh it's it you don't have to go very far to Uh um to see uh people that are Uh trafficked uh sexually in

[00:03:37] Cetvies: What was called a prostitution of Um of for example um A migrant illegal migrate migrant this Person will be criminalized um because of having no paper for example It doesn't matter and it's still the case and if this one is still the case with uh children so people under 18 but at least in the us it's still the case it's notoriously lovely case but People who are complete victim of trafficking are effect criminalized because yes or because they have been targeted because they are illegal immigrants so no one will Say oh yeah but you are trafficked because any other trafficker gets away with the vat because they are called smugglers in instead i'm not saying there is no smugglers exist but the traffickers which are not smugglers or are part of smuggling because one of the bigger uh way of luring people into trafficking is to Say well you know there's a in another country there's a good job Waiting for you and uh and uh oh simply Because they've got to migrate because of economic or safety security issue and so forth yeah it's one of them uh parameters in the definition of human trafficking is coercion or um or people that uh

[00:05:39] Jacob: Yeah that make you think that uh

[00:05:42] Cetvies: You are not trafficked but you are basically so is what is the simplest and what is done is that they make people believe they will get a job and instead of a job they are made slaves yeah and there's no there's no way for them to react in case of migrants it's um It's uh i think it's like kind of easy for The mafia because you know we can't uh before knowing that you don't think it's possible because these people if they are forced and they are in prison but in fact they are in the streets so you would think that they can go and sell the police and so forth and you know stop the circle happening but this is not their situation their situation is that they are for example illegal uh They have got nowhere to go they've got they are in economic found they are extremely poor Probably trafficking is so such a Is such an excess of torture that uh Um drugs there's drug-related addiction uh and so forth and for the illegal migrants anya and maybe also inside it's very easy for

[00:07:20] Cetvies: The mafia because they tell them you know what if you are if you go we know where you live we know we know where your family is and there will be a retribution so they can't even go back because and you have yeah so

[00:07:36] Jacob: So okay so you're coming to me from france right yeah and i'm over here in texas in america so what in where you're at and where i'm at um what does what does trafficking look like so um is this i mean because i feel that my level of knowledge on human trafficking is kind of just from movies and occasional news articles that i see like i don't really know exactly how it happens so um and where you're at and where i'm at how are people lured in and how can we um how can we spread awareness to help each other out and look out for signs and symptoms um or um to just Have more knowledge to help each other out you know before preventative wise so um I just feel Knowledge is power there so

[00:08:30] Cetvies: This would take you we need a professional to turn service here but a few words like i can say on this is that for example in the case of children What organization will tell you on and on and on is that there is a trap A big trap is that um there is not st stereotype Person but there is a trafficker for example okay Yeah so it's not it's not as easy as that to recognize for example for children as well There is a there is examples and in fact They are more they are really more common than one would think but is not you know a child that would be a completely um imprisoned uh into sexual slavery What uh might be the almost the common place situation is by a child by still Socialized so even if you see us as a child at school it doesn't mean that during the weekend it is not trafficked basically in the u. s in france In europe maybe in the uk it's uh it's Worse but in france i think uh

[00:10:14] Cetvies: You know we there's more social protection and so forth so it's less threatening at the moment but in the us and this is state figures and it's not organization figures it's really official figure from the u. s state department yeah there Is a three hundred thousand uh child um at risk of sexual uh um entry at risk of Sexual exploitation a year three hundred thousand uh children In the u. s and yeah so of course it is completely insane it is that but Maybe this figure might be explained because um Kind of not lessened but explained because the volume is so incredible yeah but You might be at risk of exploitation Once not in a at a regular basis here Also it's explained by the social situation big atrocities like this doesn't happen in Any so the volume of it because of course Um uh isolated example uh there's This kind of uh um they are very comp complicated to prevent yeah but so uh so A large amount of people victim of it are explained by a social situation homelessness explain a lot i mean the children that will be trafficked classically they will be from the social services the social services are the longest history of not being

[00:12:23] Cetvies: Responsible for the children they are under their care it is not obvious that if you are a child In like in care of us Cared by the social in foster family or you know omen so forth the amount of Of proportion of these kids ending up in criminality and prostitution is really high and this might be explained by of course by something that is very difficult to uh to replace uh a good quality parenting Also because there is this problem but you are dealing sometimes with children that have got the experience uh trauma sometimes extreme traumas and are eating their out of the door my 18 years certainly still a baby And there is no work for you and so forth and is the opened open door are being predated and Basically and it's what is done obviously uh and um Yeah it that is um yeah it's so terrible i didn't realize that the numbers were that high i mean you know you see yeah i insist on this figure because uh i You know um the figures about the human slavery as

[00:14:16] Cetvies: It's so impressive but from time the figures and the facts is so there's it's sort of so overwhelming and completely uh but you didn't know you were part of this culture but you spend the times checking the fact and rechecking the fact because you think at one point or no but i must have misread it okay it's been i find it 10 in 10 times But where is the official sources and you know to do and i can make the more academic job on it but every time i'm I'm like i've got to check that every time i spend like hours checking what the official source is it's very official and it is yeah wow so we're so Where are we at in the in the you know fight against it in the resolution in solving the problem so what do we i mean obviously we have people like you who are spreading awareness and your blog is very helpful for these sorts of things the work that you do um but what

[00:15:27] Jacob: Who else what other types of people do you work with what are the movements that you guys have going on um you know

[00:15:37] Cetvies: First i don't know if my blog is really useful because even as As a way to uh to distribute information we've got a bone we've got a lot of problems with fake news and so forth but it's kind of amusing when you uh when you do something with university for example where um The data and the checking from whatever i'm not sure people read because um every time we want to refer to uh Official sources right so basically what Is on the web is very wide scope but What we are um trying to aim at is Very restrictive because Yeah because i mean at university it's a beta 11 but in university you can't even say that um you know you saw uh the secondary source is from a website For example so that is regarded reviewed yeah so if you are not uh Writing this from uh from your office at university this won't be this won't be read basically right so even though even Even the guys at university are not read So you know there is a there is a question about um If really information is circulating

[00:17:23] Cetvies: And what it's worth of course it is worth but you see you ask me about what we are doing me i can only speak to for myself I try to for very particular Topic uh well i would have been interested in working for organization but uh I couldn't i mean i couldn't get employed so this is But i wanted to um not as a as a volunteer not to get paid to uh to reach people to reach organization about one topic in particular that i think was regarded even by professional especially professional uh against uh Try to fight slavery and sexual slavery in particular and this was for example the uh the fact that uh there is a religion uh who regard their highest Clerics or in the case of islam for Example their profit and so as of course the ultimate Model as we all know because it's one of on the first formula that is circulating and there and that when you Realize that the prophet of islam uh for example has Got four spars and the fourth one is Mainly uh

[00:19:12] Cetvies: From most people from the islam religion will tell you that she's underage and well on their age but most people believe in most scripture that she's under 10 when the when she's been well Well sexually enslaved by uh by mohammed basically and uh and also sexual slavery In islam was under uh this prophet was He was in the book it was in it is inscribed in what uh one of uh what is say to be holy books yes so sexual slavery murders and bleeding and so forth uh it is inscribed and so uh for example i tried to contact organization on this topic and i couldn't try to target more specialized organization And Every time the answer and then i followed foo because it's not you know i said i may have sent thousands of email uh to for to People for um to people to um to speak about uh more than human slavery but to human rights here but this uh i did follow you Fool yeah i really rang and you know and try to obtain an answer and the

[00:20:54] Cetvies: Answer is no it's not our area we can't do that it's not our area and via the other guy there is no more specialized than this than when he's slavery that is only there is also um a bizarre fact about Bizarre he's a uh it's not fast um i don't have english last sorry so sad basically uh it's only in 2017 that charlemage he has been regarded as human Trafficking only in 2017 before it was Basically not regarded as slavery basically it was like uh um regarded as you know uh traditional Certainly like this traditional or cultural uh aberration certainly but It's only uh by the u. n by the united nations just incorporated Child marriage into their slavery Figures only in 2017 He's very big to know that because it means that um uh five years ago uh camarilla didn't have um legal protection you know the cha the One it's disgusting to use this term

[00:22:30] Cetvies: Right because it's not you know it's uh It's not my age at all i mean it's just that it's slavery on a piece of paper it's like um and just and yeah so it's only since 2017 that Shall marriage benefit from slavery closure on it before it was you Know just marriage and also this ma for Example with chair marriage is really um Underestimate and the reason why it's underestimated is because for example Unesco the right of child convention has been Signed by every countries in the world the only country that didn't sign it in the u. s and somalia Why did the uf not sign it uh hello this Is uh this is a bit of a of a mock that is using at university because when you when you look at the legal perspective on it they will say the people that advocate for not signing it we'll tell you no but you know what our legal framework are really better we're not gonna sign for convention that is um but is less by our own standards but is this is absolute uh joke to say that because one you've a convention is a convention so and yeah

[00:24:13] Cetvies: Uh it's not a treaty so you don't have to follow it you know also there's the law the law is the spirit of the law you follow the letter of the law but you spread over spirit of the law and means that if you sign a paper that are promoting a child right even if there's a problem with a letter uh evil if the spirit of the law say no you protect child what is certainly not to abuse children right you see so whatever but this is a big joke the reason why uh the u. s didn't sign it is because you still practice participation

[00:24:53] Jacob: Do you think I really like you said spirit of the law i think that's very important i think that's something that we're losing a lot of is the essence the spirit of the law rather than just following the

[00:25:03] Cetvies: Like how you're talking about you keep getting transferred to different people they're like oh that's not our department or we don't handle that or whatever and we're following the script too much you know where the yeah the spirit of the law is not being followed we forget what it's all about right yeah but also the problem will be uh as well that is a constant um subject of argument This would be the problem is that i mean we are from different system from roman law and common law so uh Yes how to interpret laws and is very

[00:25:46] Cetvies: Big in the u. s or in the uk because he's the judge is doing the job basically instead of just um uh applying the law this is more european in roman law the judge will be more applying the laws you know and in the u. s and the uk so anglophone um Even so commonwealth and so forth uh the Judges are really much more important because they will interpret the a lot of more but the problem is that also with that clear letter and you know clear framework then it's a bit they do whatever they want on top they're extremely uh Powerful because they are it's the rule of precedent that is to say if they do something once uh the judge the other judges is gonna read about what they did and they will follow precedent

[00:26:58] Jacob: So it's why you why you have been So big story with your supreme court and the because judges yes so independent whatever yeah so yes so yeah we are caught in a new race yeah it's so silly we're uh yeah we're mistaking the map for the territory in many ways um you've talked You've talked about censorship i think censorship is a is an important topic because i mean it's filtering in with our advancement of technology and the internet and you know even things like youtube um we're really starting to say this is truth and this is not truth and these companies are blocking certain content you know around the uh the pandemic the corona 19 virus all this stuff it's uh it's getting more and more complicated so i think that censorship is important to talk about i know that you've spoken on the censorship in china and i think that is a good a good place to go i think it's a good place to look at um for what we don't like

[00:28:04] Cetvies: Yeah Censorship is everywhere yeah Censorship is everywhere it's in every country when you study the capitalist Way of producing censorship and fight is Done for self-censorship there is very interesting paper on On our uh basically uh the audience is sensor is on censoring the artist uh the publisher is censoring the offer And the author is censoring himself because they want to uh They want to they cannot not Be doing some sales and so forth so Censorship it's really everywhere but in china it's uh it's the top league basically yeah and also china being a one-party system This is changing the whole game by the way today they just said that At school the pupils will have to learn About qi so the president um reform and political uh Spirit of philosophy and so forth right so Is a sign from we know about chana but Is going on and on and on you know china is as a as other history of or at

[00:29:54] Cetvies: Least i have been told i've been told that of closing and opening and closing and opening and closing and so uh 15 years ago you were it was a opening uh phase and it's um Yes it's ten years ago uh Yes i think it's ten years ago maybe a little bit less where well since you see because for example he became a chief of the army for example yeah so more and More concentrated power and um and uh Yeah censorship in china well it's so full yeah you know for example um and i guess yeah yes for sure he has he has already been the case uh

[00:30:55] Cetvies: But china is still um like a secret continent almost here you know it's completely another scripture and so forth it's a bit secret it's uh it's communist so he is also kept there Their secret uh well and uh and you can't really dissent So you know the kind of research and peer-review research you know the amount of research or what is done or has been done is it's become very difficult to uh To produce uh and uh and readable in English it's really less than it should be because as we know china is absolutely huge and is very old and is super active so i guess the racial research gap is Appalling and there is no one that can speak to you in china because um Because well so we you know in china if you say something about the regime about the communist party you lose your job it's no it's not joke it's not Would say the chinese people too Are now losing hong kong because now kong is not gonna be two-party system this little island where a steel internet is not censured because in china internet is his big

[00:32:38] Cetvies: Big bigger draft of censorship in china you will go in maine and china you don't have google you are google china but you don't have you don't have a website your podcast Will never be seen by common chinese people is sensor the blogs we write never be gonna is Is not possible there's no access to channel people to blogs and podcasts from the Western world right youtube is all censored there is no one

[00:33:17] Jacob: Video from youtube that as a chinese you can watch in china and before that one he was he was not too attacked so you could if you had a little money You could have a vpn so vpn is the way To circumvent the internet and What is sensor in your country uh you in fact can view it because you are you You are a user that like if you were in another country so but this now uh and yes it's like uh ten years ago a little bit less Uh the vpn they say look if you want to watch in what is censored in china if you want let's say to the chinese people if you want to circumvent Circumvent

[00:34:22] Cetvies: With a vpn if you want to watch it with a vpn like you were not in chennai like you were in the u. s so you watch something by essential by the chinese party if you are caught doing it's prison yeah so you're just a citizen you want to watch a video on youtube from the western world it's like yes israel is a is the model of north korea at that point you go to prison just because you watch a video from the western world is this amount of censorship and it's well-guarded because okay you would say oh you know youtube and yeah and people are becoming so rich i mean the google is gonna own the place the facebook are gonna own the place so you understand why chinese What they did is that they've got a youtu the equivalent of youtube but it chinese one and the money of course come to china and that you would understand why they do it but it is not Clearly only a condom question of money is because Yes it's and there is no way you can say okay bomb but people talk will talk will go

[00:35:45] Cetvies: On you know the chinese will talk on their own in their own their own papers or video or website and so forth no They can't if they even if they say anything wrong about the Bao is a very um Famous uh teacher at university he only said something about Fundamental freedom or and yeah he went to prison they died in prison and so forth only with a paper you know weave on this paper some kind of political ideas of some of some kind

[00:36:39] Jacob: Have you have you um heard any of or heard of me park she's uh she had escaped from north korea and she's been an author kind of doing some podcasts recently and she spoke on the state of north korea and it was so eye-opening to me it's kind of similar it's kind of similar to this um it's really seeing how similar china and north korea kind of are becoming in a way um

[00:37:04] Cetvies: Yeah wow it's very difficult for us to think like that you know to we have so much freedom over here in america that for us to not for me to not be able to pick up my phone and watch whatever i want to watch we can we can't even wrap our heads around that yeah yes it's true but yes true but i'm not i'm i mean it's true yeah but i wouldn't word it like this because of course compared to this it is what you just say in comparison We've got so much freedom right but um Me i wouldn't forget the fact of our Uh sensor we are in capitalist Country that there is uh there is no way um there is no way because for example is uh when you will see so many of these scandals uh for example um

[00:38:03] Cetvies: Financial scandals why you know that for example uh it is known the big company they cook the books there's bbc doing uh doing a series on that it's aaron and uh and uh yeah it's so it's so cooked or i mean you know it's even it's so gross usually is that is a kind of amusing is because it's so gross but uh we will we lose um the grasp of any reality basically the inequality is so gross or for example the way it's uh it's badly done the way we show that If we are in some profession we're gonna uh see how much we pollute for example do You uh just out of sheer negligence

[00:39:03] Jacob: You know if you if you were doing things properly and in a different way and if Born this is like a national level for example if we stop using the amount of plastic but we know it's gonna ruin our health run this

[00:39:21] Cetvies: Planet and so forth and no if in fact it's true there's no censorship we can talk about this you and me i don't even do it under my True name because i've written and i've written maybe in a Liberate liberal way but about slavery and about religious extremism and also veganism and the persecution of Homosexual in african countries are put in prison because of their sexuality and so forth and no one no many people know about it And also it's uh it's the way you write you know

[00:40:17] Cetvies: Yes i'm not so sad but uh I don't feel i can do this on under my own name because Because of a scottie i will be under and But i know that this is gonna be linked with my living With my job with the empire but will Look and see if they agree with what with what have been said uh also there is censorship in capitalist countries capitalist uh my Guess is that china China is capitalist as well and so it is not it is not i mean it's a communist party it's a one uh party but uh you know it's an open market so uh It's not any longer um uh doing things you know communally and So far whatever yeah but Yes for example A whistleblower have been treated This is a very excellent way of Of assessing um how much censorship Varies in the country and if i'd say even in france because you know it's a bit of a pompous Patriotic reaction yes in france they are treated up for english Also we see we see our system is

[00:42:04] Jacob: Changing because of uh what we have been told it was and how it is changing is so it's even more shocking is for example uh if you uh if you if you if you investigate on the On a company and if They choose to say that you know you don't have a proof enough proof and offense but you know to say that this uh this company really

[00:42:40] Cetvies: I've done something very wrong and so forth for journalists is becoming very dangerous to investigate And to share any information they found because if it's not proven by air plus b If it's only witnesses and so forth the The what they've got to pay the newspaper of a journalist to have a propagating the information is Is really bad so basically no one is gonna want it to investigate to say anything any longer because if you if you say anything but i mean of course it is good that you can't say anything about anyone just to slander them yeah this is this is good yeah but I'm not talking about this i'm talking about um uh company but uh completely Unscrutinized they can do whatever way they want of course they've got so many so many ways to hide what should be controlled and should be assessed and should be stopped because it creates a misery and it's uh And it's not done and there's only the journalists left trying to do their job and they can't do anymore because yeah so the level of censorship and we know it also in a capitalist system Where we know our newspapers are controlled more and more by one person only

[00:44:19] Cetvies: And this person are multi-billionaire and so independent in independence in publication is uh is all but gone and in university Is the same university and here are funded by a detector ship yeah a university there's a big amount of university receiving an enormous amount of funding from a Country such as saudi arabia china qatar And so forth yeah so what if you receive funding from dictatorship we know about capta who is living and thriving on pure slavery on Pure trafficking they all their staff they don't allow them to To do anything but work if they if they go outside they are caught by the police and their passport for phone out of window and this is yeah and And with this system uh are totally linked with western one university nonetheless

[00:45:34] Jacob: Yeah it's scary how interchangeable or like intertwined everything really is Cetvies where do you see um Where do you see the role as a journalist yourself Where do you see the role of journalists right now you know in this time of um You know fake news in all of these um conflicts of interest there's a lot of journalists who are not doing their job uh well so what if you Had like if you had to say something to the other journalists you know what would it be i mean because i think we need we need some courageous people right now we need some courageous journalists who are doing the hard work and speaking the truth you know and not censoring themselves yeah but

[00:46:20] Cetvies: I'm not sure about that because there is a legal framework and if anything that you do is gonna you're gonna be sure it's gonna be the enslavement of yourself uh if you if you know that uh for example you will such as whistleblowers yeah because in that case journalists are whistleblowers and such as whistleblowers i mean you know it's typical uh um The way it's a good example of The framework we will work for example You witness something so you know there is a big problem as an employee yeah but of course you are not the ceo so there's papers to prove that is Happening uh you that you cannot produce this only the only the senior that can pronounce this paper yeah but nonetheless you go to court and you say there's this and this and this Only what the judge had to do is to say okay so you are a ceo or you are a manager of This place i need you to give me this amount of paper to prove that you are doing things well okay it's all but what should be happening yeah but the judge is never ever will Never ask for this paper never

[00:47:51] Jacob: Yeah so they are let so it's impossible For you to report anyone because the legal framework is not there here and so only what is left to you is to do your own justice which you cannot and on top of it you just lost your job doing this in case of whistleblower and certainly the legal framework here will work perfectly to say that you have been bad you have been blah so you've lost your job but not only this you lost your Uh you see is civic credibility and also when you've got to find another Job in another company who will do the Same because if they can get away with it and earning more money by this And so being more competitive or more widespread vegan is these criminals are going to rule at the end because they just make money out of the misery they are creating and therefore rule so it's a vicious circle and as well i would be very You know asking my if for example is

[00:49:16] Jacob: Just what i've heard on the radio today is to say to you know to be positive and to say oh maybe african people you know it's so cool i just the courageous people and resilient people and uh and there is um there is many people in the west that have heard many not many but there's a few saying that they will react against Talim taliban being back but this is crazy because if an Army such as the u. s army cannot fight the taliban if the taliban is protected by pakistan yeah Like he has been for years and years by is pushing for this but there is what What we know about the isis and And al qaeda even i think it's isis that don't like battalion doesn't matter and yeah it's is the same hell they have to they are here to offer yeah and on top of it that this

[00:50:26] Cetvies: That the taliban is backed by china and pakistan because pakistan and china are friends and so forth and the was the only thing that you say that we can say because this is the situation wherein is no we have to you know if we have young people is resilient and They will have a courage to resist there's no courage to resist because they are done basically they are done by the Uh i in fact is beyond me because um Because of this situation is so bewildering that um but uh yeah is there is no co Courage in their uh i mean yes very discouraged but uh they're gonna be executed yes

[00:51:20] Cetvies: They are they are being executed right now yeah of course uh yeah i mean obviously there's certain uh liberties that we have by being able to even be courageous so even someone being able to start a podcast is something that not everybody has the um you know the chance to do so do you think do you think that a lot of these important conversations are going to start happening on places like podcasts and um like the clubhouse app if you've heard of that just because clearly we need to get away from our institutions to have these important conversations because our institutions have their own versions of corruptions and blind spots so the future of these types of conversations where we talk about important things do you think i mean do you think stuff like this is kind of how it's going to go can this make it better like if we look at the next you know 20 years 10 years whatever it is how do we get away from the institutions controlling what's being said and not said uh i'm not sure um As i would say but i'm not full because it's so again it's not really relevant to your point but uh like i asked human trafficking you know there's and

[00:52:44] Cetvies: Mirroring censorship i would say yeah is um i would give a semen size but we are I don't think that it looks like if it's Going to get better for the simple fact that yes there is awareness and an opening and information circulating maybe more awareness i'm not sure because for example uh They are very unclose community to answer to answer a question here Before of my own experiences are you circulating the information yeah so the only uh um thing that i have i've got an experience in a little bit is for facebook you know a lot of social media uh information is circulating on facebook well facebook is a great example right um the circulate the circular relation of information is just only done within circles and very similar circles basically on Facebook if you want information of human trafficking first you need to be a member of one of a group of human trafficking basically is this yeah but maybe on group on human rights it means that you are already one that some That knows that this problem exists

[00:54:22] Cetvies: And then you sign up and then you know you become like a pseudo specialist amateur but uh if you want if you are on facebook i am on facebook i know i've got a very important information for you for me to give to you i've got to pay i cannot come in into your profile and say you know what jacob did you know about that right i cannot if i want to do that or we are from the same group already we are signed up on human trafficking because if i do something on human trafficking and we are we are exchanging uh while we wear a group of cat lovers is not gonna happen here i'm gonna be all censored or removed all my comment is gonna be removed or i'm gonna be removed from the group you know what i mean yeah so basically we are trying to um to build some kind of awareness and So forth and it's why but it's not possible because it's very on close group and we've got a problem facing with capitalism is the

[00:55:22] Cetvies: Advertisement is king that is to say anything you want to do whatever it is for your business or what you or it is for your organization or your newspaper is it you've got to pay to contact your service not free not free and um so yeah and you've got this and force and also for human trafficking When the question is you know is it gonna get better yeah uh The con the context is a context Where This word is facing so many Problems already and that there is so many problems that we know are too to come due to our negligence due to a menace to be honest Because the amount of problem we're gonna have with nature for example but Can't survive what we are doing to the planet it cannot yeah so there's climate change reversing there as well the level Of pollution and a poison that it's every everywhere on air on Soil on water and so forth and one day The plants will stop to grow away and there's diseases of course diseases on the before we had like i don't know 1000 variety of cereals and legumes and so forth and now we've got 10 or 20.

[00:57:25] Jacob: Yeah we're not living a very sustainable future right now at all no wow um well i mean We are getting up here in time so i do want to round the corner i thank you for not only your time again but um for just all the work the work that you do uh it really is important uh it's powerful and um i mean

[00:57:47] Cetvies: I appreciate everything that you do Cetvies it's wonderful and it's uh it's the right thing to do so thank you Thank you very much for having inviting me is very nice yeah of course um so i will include in the texted written out description down below um this will probably be a few weeks out i'm getting a little bit of a backlog but i will uh include your website and whatnot is there anything else you'd like to include is anything anywhere else you want to send people any listeners yes Well um we talked about the rest so the rest of what i had to talk in priority is veganism and the torture we inflict on animals instead of feeding ourselves with plants that very healthy and so forth it's not because i like killing plants but Is to avoid killing animals as it's a bit complicated philosophically but yes to stop torturing uh Cars and you know mammals and any animals here to just to feed ourselves is i think very important because people People funnily and we are in culture by so tightly um

[00:59:07] Cetvies: Linked with meeting as a inspirational and linked with strength and wealth and so forth but there is many people that love animals and that but don't get they are eating them at the same time so it's why i think it's very important to Spread the word on veganism and also I would like to spread the word about Lgbt people are put into prison for their sexual orientation in africa in middle east and uh in Any country in i'd say like which country but even a country benefiting from Tourism such as kenya for example

[01:00:03] Jacob: Wow well i mean Thank you Cetvies i really appreciate it thank you for spreading the word on all of these things i'll clue that in the description um it looks like you've been being featured on some other podcasts as well so if they search your name um even just on youtube you can find some more interviews with Cetvies if you enjoyed um or you found it interesting what we talked about today so Cetvies uh thanks one more time i hope you have a good rest of your day Listeners take care of yourselves love yourself drink some water stretch just try to be centered and look out for one another all right take care bye Cetvies At what age do we learn how to have better conversations At what age do we learn to have better conversations with ourselves No Knowledge is power You