# 087 Yogi, Author, Poet, Love Coach & Masters in East/West Psychology Zach Beach - A Path Of Love - Episode: 0087 - Date: 2022-05-17 - Duration: 1:27:14 - Guest: [Zach Beach](/guests/zach-beach/) - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdHBQSsx1oE - RSS: https://share.transistor.fm/s/6cfa8b7b - Spotify (show): https://open.spotify.com/show/45J7CBdM8j29doqyBp2bFs - Apple (show): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-junkyard-love-podcast/id1489118788 ## About Joining us from the Golden State - Zach Beach, MA, is an internationally renowned yoga teacher, best-selling author, poet, love coach, founder of The Heart Center love school, and host of The Learn to Love Podcast. He has taught and coached thousands of couples and individuals on how to deepen their love and connection and is the author of The Seven Lessons of Love and two poetry collections with a third out in June. He also has a Masters Degree in East/West Psychology and is actively dedicated to bringing more love into the world. Through his work, he helps people lead happier, more loving, and more fulfilling lives and we discuss some of that wisdom in this episode. He brings his wise lens, knowledge, and articulation to us as we explore some thoughts around the ego, consciousness, suffering, wisdom, history, living with purpose, connection and belonging, mental and physical well being, mindfulness, living from the heart, unconditional love vs transactional love, perceiving time, the mind-body-connection, being caught in the mind, koans, the power of poetry, spiritual short stories, metta loving-kindness meditations and more. I am grateful to hear Zachs perspective on the human condition. Check out his previous works and look out for his newest collection "Pebbles" dropping in June. Subscribe to catch the latest episodes as they release. Lots of awesome guests on the horizon. @zachbeachlove ## Chapters (none published in episode notes) ## Quotes (none published in episode notes) ## Guest links (from published notes) - Website — www.zachbeach.com: https://www.zachbeach.com - Love School — The Heart Center: http://www.the-heart-center.com/ - Facebook — zachbeachlove: https://www.facebook.com/zachbeachlove - Instagram — @zachbeachlove: https://www.instagram.com/zachbeachlove/ - Twitter — @zachbeachlove: https://www.twitter.com/zachbeachlove - YouTube — zjb407: https://www.youtube.com/user/zjb407/videos ## Tags / keywords Zach Beach, A Path Of Love, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0087, JYLP 0087, yoga, love coach ## Archive picks Extracted from the YouTube auto-caption transcript and published links already on this episode. Labeled separately from Jacob’s published About / Chapters / Quotes / Hashtags. ## Memorable quotes - [00:06:17] Zach: “Led me to love now i'm on a path of love so who knows what this one Might take me” - [00:09:13] Zach: “Of basic Idea that nirvana and samsara are the same Or the end and the means are the same” - [00:23:34] Zach: “On their head this is me Right here I'm not a little person in my head” - [00:30:01] Zach: “You will discover the myriad of teachers Both living and non-living both human And non-human that Are all around you at all times you will Open yourself” - [00:55:09] Zach: “Know some say the etymology of yoga Is simply one of linking or being Together experiencing unity and Recognizing that artificial Separation of science and spirituality Or” - [01:10:14] Zach: “Own nervous system which has a bounty of Health and positive health effects But life is hard And none” - [01:20:15] Zach: “That as Rumi would put it your task is not to Seek for love but merely to remove all The obstacles against it And part of our path of moving from Conditions” - [01:12:17] Zach: “Transactional love like you do this for Me i'll do this for you um i like it Was it was” ## Chapter-style timestamps - [00:00:00](#t-00-00-00) — Bumper — knowledge is power / Zach intro - [00:01:26](#t-00-01-26) — Body, heart, mind — yoga, poetry, love coaching - [00:03:32](#t-00-03-32) — Connection, belonging & health research - [00:06:17](#t-00-06-17) — Path of love — from truth to love - [00:09:13](#t-00-09-13) — Nirvana and samsara — end and means - [00:14:05](#t-00-14-05) — Anxiety, depression & time perception - [00:18:37](#t-00-18-37) — Buddha’s arrow — suffering & conceptualization - [00:23:34](#t-00-23-34) — Ground of being — hand on the heart - [00:30:01](#t-00-30-01) — Teachers everywhere — flower, breath, gurus - [00:35:10](#t-00-35-10) — Seven Lessons of Love / Pebbles poetry - [00:44:51](#t-00-44-51) — What yoga is — from workout to linking - [00:55:09](#t-00-55-09) — Yoga etymology — science & spirituality ## Keywords Zach Beach, A Path Of Love, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0087, JYLP 0087, yoga, love coach, The Heart Center, Learn to Love Podcast, Seven Lessons of Love, Pebbles, East/West Psychology, poetry, ego, consciousness, suffering, mindfulness, unconditional love, transactional love, metta, loving-kindness, koans, heart center, mind-body connection, Alan Watts, Rumi, Buddha, nirvana, samsara, Jacob Rhines ## Hashtags #ZachBeach #JYLP0087 #JunkyardLove #APathOfLove #Yoga #LoveCoach #TheHeartCenter #LearnToLove #SevenLessonsOfLove #Pebbles #Metta #UnconditionalLove #Mindfulness #Rumi #AlanWatts #JYLP ## Short guest bio (from episode speech + published links) Zach Beach, MA, is a yoga teacher, author, poet, and love coach; founder of The Heart Center love school and host of The Learn to Love Podcast, with a Masters in East/West Psychology. On this episode he frames his work across body (yoga/Thai massage), heart (poetry), and mind (lectures and love coaching), talks through a path from truth-seeking into love, and reads from his poetry collection Pebbles while pointing listeners to www.zachbeach.com and The Heart Center links published in the notes. ## Transcript [00:00:00] Jacob: Knowledge is power Welcome to the Junkyard Love Podcast Ladies and gentlemen I'm here with Zach Beach welcome Zach [00:00:23] Zach: Thanks Jacob thanks so much for having Me [00:00:25] Jacob: Yeah happy to have you on man you uh [00:00:27] Jacob: You messaged me um you reached out to me On instagram and i was like actually yeah let's squeeze you in i know i Had mentioned uh i have my backlog of Pod match people but uh I immediately was like cool this is Gonna be a great conversation right up My alley um it seems like you are Interested in a lot of the things that i'm interested in You excel in all these different areas So let's kind of give people who have Never heard of yet they don't know Anything about you what do you do What do i do Um i just want to thank you again for Having me and i appreciate your Listeners uh listening to me because i Am committed to one thing and that is Love and i want everyone at the end of the Show to know that they deserve all the Love that their heart can have and Handle and that you are loved and you Belong and you're beautiful and perfect Just the way that you are and there's Nothing you need to do change or improve About yourself Uh to be worthy of love and even at the End of the day when we make mistakes Where things don't go the way that we [00:01:26] Zach: Want you are still worthy of belonging worthy Of love and belonging So many years ago i decided to devote Myself to love and i do think of my work In the world as being on the level of The body the heart and the mind So on the level of the body my work Involves yoga getting people in touch With their own bodies partnering yoga And thai massage getting bodies to Connect with other bodies On the level of the heart i love poetry The language of the heart and the language of love And on the level of the mind i lecture Write and workshops and do coaching as Well love coaching helping people Strengthen their own Loving relationships And that to means the power of intention Is it's open-ended and there's a million Ways to live from whatever intention you set for Your own life whether it's peace or Compassion or love And it's taken me to really wonderful Places in the world and i also encourage [00:02:21] Zach: Listeners to live from their own Intention to think about what really Matters to them most in life to think About why they are here on this planet And to make sure they're living in line With those inner values Well so obviously this is a very uh Natural spot for you to fill um it seems Like it goes hand in hand with your personality and what you're all about how did you how did you find this Intention you know for someone who's not Really thought consciously What do you mean intention you know You just pick something and you aim at It and that's what you do like how did You stumble upon this for yourself Um that would be lovely if it was easy Right um i do kind of think of my path As that quote that you might know that a Fool a fool who persists in his folly Eventually becomes wise And mom i'm still not even to the wise Part yeah i'm kind of halfway in between Um but i would say my path originally Did not begin with love it began with a Search for truth Right a search for is there any kind of Underlying reality to that which we Perceive And really thinking about [00:03:32] Zach: Why are we here why are humans here what Does it mean to be a good person those Really fundamental questions that we all Ask ourselves And it's crazy to me because no matter Where i went in the world rather it was A Lecture hall at some university or a Church or a temple or a synagogue i Heard the same message again and again Wherever i went on this search for truth That no matter the question The answer is love And when i do talk about love some People are like oh my god this hippie Like just tells me to love everyone And i'd like to remind everyone that This is grounded in science neuroscience Social psychology the idea that we all Need love did not originate with the Beatles it originated with an Understanding of how human beings Develop we come into this world extraordinarily Dependent on others to take care of Ourselves to give us the food shelter And care that we need to survive And that need for connection belonging Continues for the rest of our life Right and i love all the research that's Coming out about how important social Connection is For our own mental health and well-being And some of the research for example says That poor social connection [00:04:54] Zach: Is just as bad as smoking a pack of Cigarettes a day or being overly obese In terms of health and longevity So it didn't originate with some pie in The sky hippie ideal but it's really Grounded in how we as human beings are Built how our mind is wired to connect With others And When you were like oh what does it mean To live with intention Do you just choose it and then you're Done with it that would again be lovely But it's iterative Right so living with intention is a Matter of one reflecting like what Really matters most to you in this life And then trying your best to live from That intention right so you might wake Up in the morning and you say i'm gonna Love myself today and then you go to the Mirror and you see a big zit on your Forehead and you're like you are so ugly And you're like dang it Lost already Um but that's why it's a practice right It is an iterative Uh matter of continually coming back to Our intention whether it's for peace or Love or compassion or understanding or Forgiveness And along with that practice you're Constantly making adjustments to your Path constantly figuring out what really Works and what doesn't [00:06:17] Zach: Right And so sometimes like we think that We're on the right path we climb one Metaphor is we reach a wall we get to The top of the ladder we look over the Wall we're like wait a second this was The wrong wall And then we have to go an entirely Different path so just the same for me i Thought i was on a path for truth and Then truth led me to love now i'm on a path of love so who knows what this one Might take me [00:06:42] Jacob: Wow beautiful okay so when you first Began this journey um I'll just say for me when i kind of Started Turning my intention inwardly You know kind of asking myself these Similar things that you were saying it You know um Like what does it mean to What is my intention what is mine what Is my focus like what am i what Should i be doing you know these sort of Things that kind of make you question Yourself like what am i what's a human And why does love feel good and Whatnot did you have um Oh did you have any sort of like Breaking moment or any sort of like what You would consider a spiritual awakening Of any sorts um I don't know if you use these terminologies but you know some people Talk about stepping onto the path of Enlightenment that sort of thing i don't Know if you um stumbled in that Direction like what kind of sparked You to do this sort of thing Well i do think of my path as almost a Continuous process of awakening Or to put it a different way i do think Of the life path As a series of exercises in awakening or Spiritual awakening That our [00:07:52] Zach: Task as human beings the reason we were Reincarnated in this form that's just One way of putting it Is simply to awaken And that everything we experience in This life is all grist for the mill It's all signposts and exercises that we Can use to facilitate our own awakening And i wouldn't say at any point there Was like this sudden moment it has been This continuous process and this Continuous deepening And it's interesting kind of the way you Formulated your question because it's Like oh i've been trying to kind of Figure this out or have you been trying To figure this out Because something that you discover on The path is Thinking will not get you there Is the mind is limited in its abilities and Its conceptualizations And to me spirituality is Almost anything that goes beyond the Mind right this is what eckhart tolle Says spirituality is anything that goes Beyond the continuous movement of Thinking right or mark epstein says that Spirituality is anything that transcends Our personality right anything that goes Beyond this sense of ego this sense of a Limited self caught up in this body and Stuck in an alien universe Right so It you can't think yourself there Although the path of mental discipline [00:09:13] Zach: And mastery is an important one but it Is a matter of discovering other Dimensions to our being other dimensions To being human And one important dimension of course is The heart is the heart space Which is why i was never a big fan of The term mindfulness Because when we bring our full body our Full present moment awareness it There's no mind left so i often refer to It as either a heartfulness because You're bringing your full heart Or b Tuning into something we already talked About i think of mindfulness as being Re-mindfulness Where you continually remind yourself Of your intention of why you are here But i often also think of mindfulness as Simply loving connected Presence at the same time And again this is this practice that we Continue to do And In yoga we do have this kind of basic Idea that nirvana and samsara are the same Or the end and the means are the same [00:10:18] Jacob: And if you think that you're getting Somewhere or that you're trying to Attain something you've already Made a mistake Basically like if you're meditating to Attain enlightenment like you're not Meditating because you've already Separated yourself from some Future oriented goal And We can come to kind of a understanding That if we are looking for like an Unconditioned aspect of our experience Then it's not going to be found anywhere Than right here right now right not Anywhere outside of yourself not Anywhere somewhere in the future that You are trying to go towards Because if you can gain it guess what You can lose it And therefore it's just Back to the world of conditions Yeah wow yeah it uh it is interesting Uh i feel like My perception i've always been pretty Fascinated with time it's always just Been um the concept has always just Caught my attention um my tattoo Sleeve actually on my left side is a Representation of time is the four Seasons but it's interesting because i feel like When i got it when i first got into you Know i never really understood my Obsession with time i knew that i liked It and i knew that it was fascinating i Knew it was really cool to think about [00:11:35] Zach: And talk about with people i have i've Um you know friends who study physics And it's really cool to talk about time With them but uh the farther i kind of You know again not that we will arrive But i guess the more i get in tune with My spiritual self um the more time My perception of time is different of Like this Not you know sitting in meditation not Thinking i'm going to arrive or like Okay if i do the right things then i'm Going to like it's going to turn on or Whatever but it's more of just sitting With Of course it is exactly how it is right Now you know you just you just become Acceptance of how it is right now in Order for it to Kind of propagate the future that you maybe Believe in um So okay so As far as your world in meditation And yoga When it Let's see what question do i want to ask Um I could touch on a few things that you Just said yeah Go ahead i'll ramble on into nothingness For a while so thank you Well i love because you were like you Know i often think about time Right yeah and That is part of the fundamental inquiry [00:12:48] Zach: That we find on the spiritual path which Is the human path which is the same path That we're all walking just the series Of exercises and awakening And it does tap into like Those fundamental questions like why are We here what is life why is there something Rather than nothing and It is a matter of penetrating Whether what we experience is True Versus just like an artificial reality Created by the mind Right so then we get into okay what is Space what is matter what is existence What is consciousness and what is time Is of course wrapped into all of that And part of our Path of viveka wise discrimination is Differentiating between what is part of Our real experience and is there any Underlying truth to that And the basic idea is that once we are Able to discover that truth then we do Attain a certain level of awakening or Insight so you probably know vapasana Just simply means insight meaning that If you have insight into the true nature Of reality then you'll Awaken And you absolutely tap into this idea That we don't find it out there but we Find it in here So there's this quote by Paramahansa yogananda that i love and he [00:14:05] Zach: Says that it is not the physicist But it is the self-realized master to Understand the true nature of Reality we discover as soon as we look Within that we're just a reflection of The cosmos that this microcosm is a Reflection of the macrocosm And We look within to discover if there is Any underlying truth And of course as soon as we look in the Mind and observe the mind we realize Just the idea of time is a total Illusion Created by the mind right the only thing That ever exists is this present Unfolding now it's the mind that creates A future that no longer that doesn't exist And it's creates a past that's already Gone And then you're like okay well if time Is an illusion created by the mind if my Body sends mind complex is an illusion Created by the mind what is real right Is what is true and that's the path Um Can we expand a little bit on um because I like explaining this i've spoken With people and spoken with friends um Kind of about i've used the word you Know anxiety and depression you know so Often anxiety is you're thinking You're right here right now but you're Thinking towards into the future what [00:15:16] Jacob: Might happen um or you're depressed Often we're looking at the past where We're upset about something that might Have happened so can you elaborate a Little bit more on what you mean by you Know all we have is right now how is When we're thinking about the future how Is that not right now Yeah i've also heard that idea and You know if you're i wonder if it was True or suzuki or one of those roshi Masters but this basic idea that if You're anxious you're living in the future if You're depressed you're living in the past And I don't know how many like therapists in Psychology would agree with such like a Blatant Reductionist statement because there Might be some other factors involved But it is really important to understand How the mind works In order to become free of it in order For us not to be controlled by the mind In order for us to realize that what we Might be experiencing might be very real As we say But it's not true right And One of the things the mind does is it's Dual and it's understanding it splits The world in its understanding and one Of the things it does is yes create a Future or create a past [00:16:34] Zach: And create any sort of abstract concept That we then get tapped into and caught Up in and thinking that it is some Version of the truth And there is a matter of turning the Mind into a slave as we say and not a Master and tapping into other ways of Being in this world Right so there's a quote by I want to say thomas merton the Christian mystic and he says that Our bodies Know that they belong It's our mind that makes us homeless Which taps into this idea that yeah if We want to be in your present in this Moment it's really not hard people think It's like oh some mindfulness some Mental trick you want to be in this Moment be in your body Your body is breathing beating its heart Pumping its blood feeling sensing in the Right here and the right now and it's The mind that is going to take you away From being in this continuous unfolding Moment Another phrase that i've heard i'm not Sure who said this but It goes the mind creates the abyss And it's the heart that crosses it Which again taps into other dimensions Of our being so first we have our body That is always in this present unfolding [00:17:51] Zach: Moment and of course we have this heart Um so i sometimes think that like yes The mind will break the world up into a Million pieces And it's the heart that will put it back Together and what i mean by like yeah the mind Will divide up the world it kind of Catches it in what i call a cognitive Net it separates things categorizes Things you know these are this species this is This far away this is the this happened In the past has to happen in the future In order for us to understand anything It comes from a level of duality comes From a level of separation Which is one way of observing and Understanding the universe but there are Of course other ways So Um you know there's this metaphor that the Buddha uses he says right now there's an [00:18:37] Zach: Arrow in your leg and you could spend a Lot of time Conceptualizing thinking about where the Error came from and who shot it and what The trajectory and the speed of the Arrow was that is now in your leg or you Could attend to the wound and attend to The suffering And that's kind of my approach to Certain things that the mind does like Potentially generate a sense of anxiety Of the future depression of the past as You could think like okay like how is This working where did it come from was It my childhood trauma et cetera et Cetera and that can be very helpful Or we can just attend to the fact that Human beings have a penchant for making Themselves miserable For making them making ourselves suffer And the mind is the one constantly imagining And wanting things to be different than The way that they are creating a certain Level of suffering Imagining a future that could be better Or a past that was better and now things Are much worse And rather than necessarily Figure out those dynamics we can Simply attend to this reality that there Is some suffering and we can bring our Heart to bridge the abyss to And we can come into our bodies to come [00:19:53] Zach: Back home [00:19:56] Jacob: Yeah it reminds me i was thinking of the I saw this meme that was like some sort Of spiritual meme that was uh when i Find the person responsible for all of My suffering and it wasn't looking You know um can we could we elaborate a Little bit more on um The difference between like heart and Mind or kind of like dropping into your [00:20:14] Jacob: Heart center you know i've done plenty Of meditations where It's so subtle you know it's so subtle But it's so beautifully subtle where um Maybe you first sit down and so your Mind's you know a little bit racy um Kind of going through you're Trying to concentrate on your breath in This meditation for example um and then I've had the uh the person guiding the Meditation would say you know drop into Your heart center they would give you different cues or different ways of kind Of like bringing your awareness from Either following your breath or your Thinking mind or just you know one Pointed on something And dropping it into your heart and um There's this it is very subtle but if You can kind of drop your attention into Your heart It's a It's very difficult to describe but like You Do become detached from your thoughts in A way um if you're able to kind of like Um You know There's a I've for the definite or the uh the Example of kind of ringing a bell and at The end you're not just trying to like where's the ringing of the bell you Listen for the end you kind of just sit In the silence of the echo as after the [00:21:23] Jacob: Bell rings Um and there's something similar to that When dropping into the heart so does any Of that spark anything for you when i Say kind of dropping into the heart does That um Does that ring any bells for you so To say Indeed absolutely there's so many Different Ways i could take this i'll just begin With a few basic ideas because one you Mentioned it's really hard to describe The heart space it's really hard to Explain And that's it right because we're trying to Use the mind To explain something that of course Goes beyond the mind Right as Alan Watts would say Just as water cannot rise above its own Level so too the mind cannot rise above the level of Thinking [00:22:14] Zach: Right And this Again to me is the entire spiritual Journey some say the spiritual journey is a Journey of 18 inches Traveling from here pointing to my head In case people can't see from here down To here from the head to the heart But i also come back to a poem by Wendell berry and he says actually the Spiritual journey is one inch it's even Shorter than 18 where we finally arrive At the ground beneath our feet where we Finally arrive in the here and now But of course human beings are we're Little chatter boxes we love to talk About things and we can try our best to Describe it and You we're starting to use Kind of a more metaphoric language right To describe the heart when we say like Oh we have to go deeper into this area Of our being And this to me is the power of metaphor The power of poetry to describe a Certain way of being that does Potentially go beyond the mind that does Tap us into Another way of being Because we are As we say in zen just fingers pointing To the moon Using words to describe a fundamentally Indescribable experience And metaphor can be a really wonderful Way to get closer to the moon [00:23:34] Zach: Because it taps more Is another way to describe the capacity Of the heart because we get so focused on Limited thoughts of the mind we don't Realize the space that is of course Around that thought or we don't we get so Caught up in The contents of our awareness rather Than awareness itself Right so there's a famous dialogue of a Monk who drew a bird on the chalkboard or the White board and he said what is this a Picture of and people were like oh it's A bird he said no It's the sky With a bird passing through it And that to me is the level of the heart Is a more expansive Spacious Level of awareness That is able to Say hold one's thoughts or even emotions But from a place of acceptance Right so when we get into our true Nature true nature is not the mind All right have you ever like introduced Yourself maybe to someone who You know english isn't their first Language and you say my name Is jacob or i would say my name is zach No one puts their Hand on their head this is me Right here I'm not a little person in my head [00:25:10] Jacob: Right you say this is me i'm here i am Coming from my center so to me that [00:25:17] Zach: Ground of being the sense of beingness The sense of being here Again comes down to our bodies Comes down to our hearts comes down to a Reality that cannot be Described by the mind but we can at Least try our best to point Our way there And that sense of beingness spaciousness Depth Is close to describe this reality that is Fundamentally indescribable [00:25:48] Zach: So do you have i mean in your Retreats in your teaching yoga Meditation do you Is this often profound to people um Because i because for me um i didn't Grow up with it with a spiritual background at all it was only you know a Few years back Where i started just going you know deep On youtube and in different apps and Reading different books and stuff and I'd have these experiences where you Know i can kind of Feel my awareness you know quote unquote Drop into the heart and it was Something i hadn't really Hadn't really i don't think i've felt Before um What's your experience when you're Teaching people is this ever kind of a Light switch for people is it What's the difference between a thinking Mind Yeah it is such an interesting question Um it's very tempting for me to be like Absolutely everyone in my Classes have a profound and Life-changing experience I do remember one time leading a Three-week yoga teacher training and at The end of it there was this student who Was getting her phd at a you know big Fancy university And she said something along the lines Of i've learned more in this course that Was three weeks right than i have in my Entire [00:27:06] Jacob: Phd program And i was like I it's so true that you know in our Society we teach a lot of things we Teach chemistry we teach history we Teach physics But rarely do we teach what is most Essential And as you know in that book the little Prince what is most essential is of Course invisible to the eye But That was all just a preface to say that I have found As a teacher or facilitator i can't Teach anybody anything Especially if they're not wanting to Learn Like you know you could be like listen To something and be like this is a bunch Of crap like i don't believe any of this You can have all sorts of resistance you Probably know the story of the professor And the team master and he's like teach Me zen and the team master Is pouring tea into the cup until it Overflows and The professor is like hey what are you Doing he's like this is your mind your Cup is so full i can't put any more Knowledge into it you have to empty your Cup And So one of the things that we do discover On the path is that we all have a source Of wisdom within all of us [00:28:23] Jacob: Right and this is very contrary to what We did for the first 18 years of our Life we were Where we were told that in order to Learn something we have to take external Information and stuff into our brain Right we have to read this book we have To go to the library you have to listen To a professor who knows things and then Internalize that information and that is One way of gaining certain understanding Of the world but something we discover On a spiritual path is that our inner space Is just as vast as outer space and that There is a source of wisdom inside of us That we can get in touch with So i do think all i can do with anything That i ever teach is just point Hey look what's inside of there what Happens when you do this Is there anything beyond the continuous Movement of thinking is there any part Of your experience that goes beyond The general narrative that you have been Taught but it's up to the student to Uh to do it do it right so sometimes the The dharma or the teachings or the path Is described as a door that is being Opened but you as the student as the [00:29:31] Jacob: Practitioner have to walk through it So you've also probably heard that basic Idea that when the student is ready the Teacher will come And i I feel like people misinterpret this Lesson because there's it almost seems like Magical thinking like once you're ready Poof this teacher will just appear right In front of you But it doesn't work that way it really Works that once you become fully ready [00:30:01] Zach: You will discover the myriad of teachers Both living and non-living both human And non-human that Are all around you at all times you will Open yourself up and you can learn just As much from a flower As you can from your breath As you can from Shunryu Suzuki or amma or somebody Else that some other guru teacher that You enjoy And it's that That to me is the truth of it is that Once you're ready then You are open to learning So much from all the teachers that are Around you [00:30:42] Zach: Yeah there's so there's just a wealth of Knowledge happening Maybe even knowledge isn't the right word but a wealth of Wisdom perhaps happening at all times if You could just tune tuned to it in a way You know there's so much to be learned There's so many Sometimes i like to You know in a sense compare life to a Video game of all right what's The world what's this level that i'm on Today trying to teach me you know Because if you're open to actually Learning like uh dang this thing Happened to me oh i locked my keys in my Car well dang you know it could you know It switches you from that mindset of This always happens to me or this is so Hard for me to handle into like what can I learn from this you know um did you Absolutely so i really love um Um you know in the poetic world I like to think of I think poetry is one of one of the Closer things to koans you know it's It's that ushering in of epiphany it's That um that little you know the you have the finger pointing at The moon for sure um but so what's What's your journey with poetry yourself [00:31:46] Zach: In your own writing like how did you Stumble upon this did you have any poems When you first started writing you first Started reading that you're like oh that Is that does do that pointing to Something much more profound or did you Have any koan sort of experiences when You first started with poetry It's so lovely that you are bringing up A koan because This is something that i've found also In my teaching Because we in the west we kind of have This basic idea that a good teacher Is one who is able to sum up summarize And explain really challenging difficult Concepts in a really simple way that we Can understand Right but then you go to say like a zen Monastery and A good teacher is one that makes things So it possibly and intentionally Difficult That in your struggle to wrap your head Around it you attain a new And different level of understanding And so you know the common trope is that You go to your Zen master and you're like Why am i here what is the nature of Existence and he'll be like How much does three pounds of grain Weigh and you're like what And then later you go how much does [00:33:07] Zach: Three pounds of grain weigh and he'll be Like the coral in the ocean reflects the Light of the moon So too everything arises from the Emptiness that you are and like whatever Like if it's metaphysical they go Literal if it's literal they go Metaphysical and that to me is what a Colon is meant to do is it's meant to be Something the mind cannot grasp And then as you struggle To To find the Solution to the unsolvable problem that Occulon creates is In that struggle eventually something New gets kind of squeezed out of you So i am a big fan of colons and i am a Big fan of poetry Which is also designed to Express a new way or a different way of Being an understanding in the world And you mentioned What poets or poems have expired have Inspired me early on and there's been So many But one i one quote i particularly love Is jane hirschfield and in one of her Books she says that poetry Is both an amplification And a clarification Of the human experience I like that And you will find way more about what it Means to be human in A poetry book than you will in the Dictionary Like the mind again wants those literal [00:34:38] Jacob: Definitions they want everything to they Wants everything to be laid out nicely Organized And Um but the world doesn't work That way So Um does that answer your question no yeah It certainly does i mean i love you Bearing with me zack too because a lot Of my questions are just kind of like Rambling thoughts and then i trail off Into a question mark so i appreciate You playing along um so you've already Written a couple poetry books you've Already written um you have your book [00:35:10] Zach: Two the Seven Lessons of Love heart Wisdom for troubling times [00:35:14] Jacob: Tell me a little bit about your book and Your two works of poetry and i also Understand you're working on another Book too which or another poetry book Too which i want to get to but tell me About uh what are kind of like the summaries of Of what you've written thus far Yeah well it's interesting because the One that's most prevalent i feel to Our current conversation is my most Recent book It's gonna come out in june first i'm Not sure when this podcast will be aired But it does tap a lot into many of the Things that we haven't got discussing Because my most recent book is called [00:35:49] Zach: Pebbles which is designed to bring Imagery of just like a zen garden has Many Pebbles that represent harmony and With the nature and the universe And There's themes of zen and Interdependence and spiritual awakening And nature and of course What it does mean to live from the heart And to have a conceptualization Of this world that goes beyond the mind So earlier for example when we were Talking about the past And the future and the mind Doing a really good job at making our Lives insufferable Because it's the mind that will want Things to be different right i know many People love that phrase that pain is Inevitable but suffering is optional And I never quite resonated with it until i Came across a quote by saad guru the Great yogi And he's just said that pain is physical And suffering is Psychological which points to it's the Mind that wants things to be different Than what they are which to me is the Root of suffering is simply Any time things are Not what we wish them to be Non-acceptance yeah all right so one of The poems in Pebbles i can read it to You now says We either miss someone Or miss the missing [00:37:16] Zach: At home we long for the home that was Or will be Or never was Never content to just be Or sit with the flowers that only grow In the shadows of others You know a lot of the human experience Like is wanting things and then Getting it and realizing it's not what We want [00:37:45] Jacob: Right we're like the doc Chasing after the car and then once we Finally get it we like don't know what To do with ourselves Because it's not that you want like the Ferrari or the mansion Or it's that you want the level of peace Security and safety that you think that The material object is going to Provide for you that's big that's I think that's actually a huge thing That many people You know i was about to say wrap your Minds around it but i don't know if that's appropriate um That is that is very big you know we The feeling that comes with The thing or the accomplishment that We're striving towards or we think we Can obtain That's what we're actually looking for And um i think you'll agree that you Know a lot of it a lot of the spiritual Path is trying to find that here and now Without anything else without you know How is how is everything that i have now Okay how can i find peace with what I have now Absolutely There's that's one of the basic Teachings we have on the spiritual path Is that nothing can bring you lasting happiness Um but you have it already Until you disturb it that's uh i believe [00:39:00] Jacob: It's swami sachitananda who said that And we tend to think that we tend to be In the state of desiring You know we want We have this if only mind if only such And such were to occur then i could be Happy if only i made more money if only My boss wasn't such a jerk if only my Partner really understood me And the mind Is plastic if we are constantly desiring And wanting things to be different it's Going to that's going to turn into a state that The mind Continually comes back to So sure enough you get the thing that You want and you're happy for a little bit but You don't associate that happiness with The fact that just for a brief moment in Time you've stopped desiring Anything At all right and you were present Yeah okay so what was your process with [00:39:50] Zach: Uh with writing Pebbles um is it do [00:39:53] Jacob: You have like a daily i wake up and i Write at this time or do you kind of Like let it influence you as it comes About you know maybe you can catch a Thought and that starts your poem For me a lot of times i'm like i know i Want to write today i have some time And you know a lot of times i feel like As long as i'm open to it i can get at Least the first couple lines and then It's you know a domino effect when i Write so what was your process like and [00:40:16] Zach: What kind of sparked you at the beginning when you were writing Pebbles [00:40:20] Zach: Yeah i appreciate i love your questions Jacob here i really appreciate you Asking about my path and Um And i'll tie it back into your asking About some of my earlier works and my First poetry collection was called Drinking roses on sunday which was my Poetic way of saying that love is my Religion because roses to me Exemplified romance and love and sundays When you normally go to church So it's a lovely name by the way lovely Name i remember that It's all just like literally just Bathing and drinking of love As part of your religion And then i've always resonated with poetry Loved poetry would read tons of poetry In my classes and lessons so i have like You know a document of just hundreds of Poems that i've gathered and found Over the world In my in the world And after a while i was like you know i Kind of want to write my own poems that I read like during poses like shavasana And yoga class so i started writing my Own poems and sharing those in class and Then those poems became 108 shavasana poems Which i beta tested myself in meditation And yoga classes just reading it before During or after shavasana [00:41:39] Jacob: And you know we tend like with any Creative field there's always less some Vulnerability of putting your work out There and then having it be judged by Others you know you spend like five Years making a movie and then some Reviewer is like this is a steaming pile Of garbage you pretend like it doesn't Affect you but it kind of does but i Bring this up because there was one Amazon reviewer who with 108 shavasana Poems was like These poems are too long And i was like all right whoever you are [00:42:11] Zach: This Pebbles is for you because okay all Right my intention with Pebbles wasn't Wasn't you know inspired by that review but my Intention with Pebbles is just as a Pebble something beautiful and small That you can hold in your hand The intention was beautiful Elegant small Poems that just Brighten your day or just give you Another way to think about your day So i really came back to that quote i Want to say it's from the little prince Again that perfection is not when Nothing can be added but when nothing Can be taken away So literally the whole time i was Writing i was like what words do not Need to be in this poem This is a big word how can i turn it Into a smaller word how can i turn three Syllables into two how can i shave it Down to just capture the pure essence of What this poem is trying to get across So minimalism Elegance these were really huge Intentions when writing this there are Some poems that are like five words six Words seven words there's even a poem That's two words I love it cool but Um that's one of the beautiful things About just poetry in general Is that everything that we do when we [00:43:31] Zach: Write can become a tool and what i mean By that is Like with a book You write a paragraph and just to fit [00:43:39] Zach: The paragraph on the page you have to Take the line and put it on the next Line all right but with poetry anything Can be tool including where's the line Break like when are you going to hit That enter space Right but you can also play with Punctuation you can also play with where The word is on the page you can also Play with paragraphs or what we call stanzas right In between So in this way like nothing is Unnecessary right if you see a comma or A period or a question mark or a line Break it all is meant to Get some meaning across Yeah the The space in between is also you know Just as important as the as the Words right Yeah wow that's really cool um so It's as far as your journey with Yoga when you first started yoga versus where You are now as a teacher and you've had Many years under your belt um What's the difference in your Understanding you know and i ask that Because i like to you know if there's Anybody listening who Perhaps they don't really they haven't really explored the world of yoga and Maybe they just it's like oh well [00:44:51] Zach: It's just another workout i mean they're going to go to the gym and hit the Weights or i'm going to do yoga I like to kind of like expand um I guess yeah like what is yoga to You and how has it changed from when you First started till now If it has Yeah i mean it's a really excellent Question because absolutely when i Started up i kind of treated yoga the Way most people treat yoga nowadays is a Hour-long workout that you do You know two three four times a week And i really Got into yoga because of its physical Benefits because i had injured my back And this was my path of healing And at the beginning i do kind of think That the way you know many of us Practice yoga is it's almost like Dipping our toe Into this vast and incredible Ocean of understanding And i've been really getting into Just south Indian south asian religions Spiritualities and philosophies And one of the things i've discovered You know you don't think about this but You take a psychology class and they Almost pretend like psychology was Invented 100 years ago By young or freud right and then you Take a history class in like the united States is like 200 [00:46:15] Zach: 50 years old And you don't realize what it's like or I haven't didn't realize what it's like To be in a country with 5 000 years of History behind it And That our understanding of the mind of Ego of consciousness of did not begin a Hundred years ago but for three thousand Years there have been communities and Spiritual communities That have Tapped into the nature of the mind Consciousness and come to incredible Psychological understandings of how the Mind works and how it creates suffering And how to be free of it This is it's funny because I want to say like there's this Incredible infinite amount of knowledge That yoga does tap you into you could Take any small slice of yoga and spend The rest of your life studying it right You could become a sanskrit scholar if You want to get into that you could Become a scholar of southeast Asian philosophies you could also become A physical therapist or something like That right so But i say all of that because That still does come from a mind and one Of gathering knowledge which is Distinctly different from simply Becoming wise and i would say i've done Tons of workshops Trainings I got a master's degree in east west Psychology [00:47:46] Zach: And i'm constantly learning and by far The greatest teacher i have found is Literally the breath It's like your own breath will teach you Everything that you need to know about Yourself about life about the nature of Reality And so much more And if i Were to sum up like the way i'm thinking About yoga now which i think is really Important is There's this word in sanskrit called Darshan or darshana And we in the west would translate that to Mean philosophical school which is to Say yoga is one of the 10 or 11 Philosophical schools of Ancient india along with say buddhism And mamansa and shankya and different Things like that But when you get to this word it Literally means way of seeing Or worldview And this is something i've just been Really trying to tap into is when we do Look out into the world what do we see What do we interpret And you can have a totally Different world view depending on what You've been taught what you've been led To believe by The system and culture that you've brought Up in so just one example i often use is like When you look out and you see a tree What do you see [00:49:12] Jacob: All right well first of all tree is a Label that comes from the mind Right but you might see an organism Undergoing photosynthesis from the sun You might see a species right that's one Darshan that's one darshana Another way to see it is do you see the Manifestation of the tree spirit Right do you see mother earth offering Her gifts to the world Right do you see a home an ecosystem for Countless creatures Right or are you a buddhist do you see Emptiness there is fundamentally no Treeness to this thing Right so That's really the thing that's been Resonating with me most is thinking About like what do you see when you look Out into the world is it a scientific View it or is it something else So how do you know A lot of times I find joy in you know Explaining or kind of like Conversing Science and spirituality you know Because i always it's often One or the other like if you believe in Science then you don't believe in any of That woo-woo stuff you know it seems Like it's like that all the time and It's not exactly like that um so we In your studies with your masters i'm Sure you probably came across things [00:50:31] Jacob: That were you know i'm sure profound Profound to you um in your understanding East and west psychology what are some Of the bigger differences that someone Might be able to like oh wow i never Thought about that before when it when It comes to studying east versus west Understanding of psychology Yeah it's an excellent question and you Frame it really well when you talk about This artificial bifurcation that we have Created between science and spirituality Which kind of happened like in the Western world for i want to say like 14th 15th 16th century When science was coming to a different Understanding than the popular you know Christian belief at the time right we Were starting to discover that we're not The center of the universe not even the Center of our own solar system oh no it Hurts to know it And then there was this split right And Um This is our We have in the west because again we've All been raised to believe a certain Things about the world and we do have a Very particular darshan very particular World view Very particular categorization system That we have in our minds Around what science is Around what religion and spirituality is And i'll also even throw the role of the State in [00:51:56] Zach: Um to say this is just one way of being It's not necessarily good or bad but There are pros and cons to each right Like we do have a separation between Church and state and many people think It's this really incredible thing and There obviously are huge benefits and Less tyranny from you know radical Radical believers Um But there are totally other ways to organize One's entire um Society Around the sacred around the spiritual Right so you go to something like bali With the island of bali in indonesia Which practices a very unique blend of What they call a gamma hindu dharma very Interesting blend of buddhism so you'll See you know Buddha heads everywhere and Hinduism and you'll see ganesha's Everywhere and then their own kind of Indigenous belief systems And like by law like every Every little town has to have a temple In the middle of it Right and When i when i'm getting to that is um Part of our western darshan is we do Almost see religious life as what i call Like an extracurricular activity Like for most people like Every sunday you go to some church for Like two hours of your day And that's like it like that is the Extent to which you are integrating [00:53:24] Zach: These belief systems and then you go to Work which is very you know secular to The point of being completely sanitized Of any other way of being And then you might have a scientific Endeavor which again is separate is very Separate from one's own religious or Spiritual understanding of the world And as a result like we might put We don't put yoga in the same Category as science Right but absolutely in india and the East they would say this is absolutely a Mind-body Empirical Science that has been developed over thousands Not just like a hundred years of Psychology over thousands of years That shapes Uh everything that we do In the world That shapes uh what we do when we wake Up it shapes our darshan how we view the World shapes how we organize our society Organize our family structures And so like just one example is you know the Eightfold path of buddhism we have right Action and we have right livelihood Right so it's not just like you can work For the oil company over here And destroy you know valuable ecosystems and Cause global warming and then come over Here and then meditate and call yourself A good buddhist as long as you go to Church [00:54:56] Jacob: Right there's right action you have to you Infuse it into everything it is That you do So Um you know to me yoga is all about that Linking together [00:55:09] Zach: You know some say the etymology of yoga Is simply one of linking or being Together experiencing unity and Recognizing that artificial Separation of science and spirituality Or the sacred and the secular is again The mind creating a world of separation And part of our path is to bring it Bring it all back together [00:55:33] Jacob: Yeah okay i like that yeah okay so what Is um I mean i definitely want to answer The what is love question that's Always wonderful i'm sure you have a Great answer for that um You know so let's go there let's go with What is love um and then Also how can we like extrapolate it out From It's such a Such a household term but it's um It's something like so deep like it's Really is such an understanding like Everything really is all love and so Many like our entire reality is love In a sense so let's uh let's see what You what you where you go with it zach What is love All right there's so many ways i could Go with it but i tend to just start With one of the most simplest and Straightforward ideas That all love is Is a genuine concern For another person's well being And this is largely informed by some Buddhist philosophy And you might know what are known as the Four brahmaviharas or the four divine Abodes or the four noble qualities Where if you embody these qualities you Become a noble and good person And All of these qualities or three of the Four qualities are what happens when our [00:56:56] Zach: Love touches another person what happens When our genuine concern for another Person's well-being Touches that person and how they are Doing in their life So one of the brahmava horrors is simply Compassion Which is what happens when our love Meets somebody who is suffering somebody Who is having a challenging experience In their life Compassion is that desire for that Person to be alleviated of their Suffering right when our love touches somebody who isn't Suffering but they're doing pretty okay Turns into loving-kindness Which is one of my most favorite Concepts you've probably heard the poly Word meta or the sanskrit mighty tree And i often like to just use the sanskrit Words because there's never a perfect Translation So we don't even have a word for meadows We had to combine two words To combine loving and kindness And then another phrase that another Concept that Is really helpful Is the third rama vihara which is mudita Which is sympathetic joy which is joy in Somebody else's joy Which is to say that if you Love somebody and you want them to do Good or do well not to suffer and they're [00:58:16] Zach: Doing pretty good then you have medita You have sympathetic joy you are happy That they are happy All right which runs so contrary to like The enemy and the jealousy that we tend To experience when another person like Good things happen to another person That you know isn't happening to you Like your coworker comes in and they're Like oh i just got that promotion i got A big raise weren't you also wanting That right not a whole lot of modita Not a whole lot of mudita there But i love all of these things [00:58:47] Zach: I love compassion loving-kindness and Sympathetic joy or join somebody else's Joy and that concept of modita or Sympathetic joy is also really crucial To love because there's a lovely Researcher I think she was a University of north carolina chapel hill Named barbara frederiksen And she has this book called love 2.0 And does research again Scientific empirical research around What love is and then she uses this Basic idea of positivity Resonance And looks at how literally Physiologically you resonate with Somebody that you love with that you Love And when you're guess what it's amazing If you're happy if you want somebody to Be happy and they want you to be happy You get happy guess what they get happy That you're happy and then you're happy That they're happy that you're happy and Then you just resonate in this happiness Resonance that just That just takes you up it takes you up To the sky And that's one of the reasons just one Of why love is so powerful and Transformational because it has the Capacity to take us to places we never Would have dreamed of All right so and this again when you Look at relationship science this tends To be more important And more crucial towards successful and Happy relationships [01:00:12] Zach: And that by and large yes in a Relationship you want to be there for Your partner if they're having a hard Time you want to you want to Have some compassion for them But what they have found when they look At successful and happy couples is while Being there during the hard times is Important what's just as if not more Important Is rejoicing in each other's happiness When your partner comes home and says This great thing happened today the Successful happy couples are ones that Are like oh my gosh that's so amazing Yeah Yeah that's great okay so what do you In you know you're a love coach So you teach love in a sense so What does it look like at the beginning You know when you have people come In and you're i mean i think it'd be kind of strange to sit Down like all right teach me about love Like i don't know you know everybody thinks they probably have their own version of love we think we understand Love like is there Is there unlearning that you feel You have to teach often in uh you Know when you're when you're [01:01:15] Zach: In your you know love coaching scenario Situation So i got to qualify a few things because First you're saying do i teach And again you can't teach anything Okay and you've also probably noticed how Free and glib Advice can be in this world So also you know as coaches we don't Um Offer advice for example which can be Cheap and doesn't same advice doesn't Work for everyone Let me just back up a little bit because I think most people are familiar with life coaching Where you kind of have somebody and you Have your kind of you know you go Through your like eight part chart Together and you work on your career and You work on your family and you work on Your health and your wellness And What i have found And i don't i don't have too much time To explain it is it all ends up coming Back to Love and connection and belonging and if We are to get to the root The true root of our happiness and the Cause of our suffering it does come back To love And that Anything that Brings us on the path of happiness is [01:02:32] Zach: That brings us more on the path of love And our suffering in life is that Of a result of lack of love So indeed i love Coaching people into helping them Resource themselves [01:02:50] Zach: Right Recognizing that everything that you Need is already within you And all you have to do is Bring it out all we have to do is reduce It all we have to do is recognize that You're already strong Already capable Already know what it is that you need to do and this Current Challenge that you are experiencing So People do experience challenging things Around love in a number of ways we can Easily divide it up between self other And well let me divide it up into Self love Love between individuals and love Between groups and communities right so Family for example would be in groups And people struggle in all those Categories at different times in their Life so there are people that struggle With self-love you know loving and Accepting themselves there are people That are struggling in their friendships They want deeper more authentic more Connecting friendships There are people that struggle with groups like their family believe it or Not i know it can be hard to believe but Some people don't have the most loving Supportive relationships with their Family Wow [Laughter] But also what's really crucial too is Just is this community Is we have really forgotten that uh We've really evolved to grow up in a [01:04:17] Jacob: Network of supportive people that know Us and understand us And all those things are of course kind Of connected to each other So everything from romantic relationships To dating to long term to sex and Sexuality There are lots of people out there who Are struggling with Having an experience of love in their lives With themselves with a romantic partner With their community And i helped them along On that path That's beautiful what a great field To be working in that's so great that You do any of that Everything you do is awesome as far as i Would send zach um so you have had a Podcast for a while now you're almost i Notice you're uh you're up right around 100 episodes so you have i don't know if It's a new guest every single episode But 100 episodes you've got to have Learned something Through that series by now is there Anything like a blanket statement like What have you learned from podcasting So you're a good interviewer jacob You've done your research this is Awesome i should i would if i was there I would give you a hug or pet back or Something hug received virtually Virtual zuma Thanks zach Um it's true you know i [01:05:32] Jacob: I used to run this workshop series [01:05:34] Zach: Called Learn to Love where i'd bring in A new speaker to speak in a new topic And it was just a lovely community and a Lovely community event that we were to Have And covet up ended all of our lives And everything shifted online so i was Like okay i can shift this online so i Did start a podcast around covet Happened and i called it the Learn to Love Podcast and i was like we'll see how long This goes You know how long we're isolated from Each other and as you as we have all discovered Things have gone a lot longer than any Of us ever would have two weeks lasted a Little bit longer But with every crisis there is Opportunity And i have kept it going so every week i Interview a new guest it's either a Therapist or a coach or an educator or a Researcher And i we have questions on love sex Intimacy and Relationships and i have really been Enjoying the entire experience You know i've been learning about and Researching the nature of love for at Least 10 years now so i like to think That i know a thing or two about a thing Or two but me myself i've learned so much [01:06:48] Zach: From all of my guests it's been really Incredible And it's also been nice that we get to Connect with anybody wherever they may Be in the world we're no longer Geographically limited and we also get To reach an audience that is Anywhere in the world So Absolutely i've learned a lot about Communication the importance of Compassion We've talked about sex love intimacy Monogamy non-monogamy long-term Relationships all that And You know there's Again there's all sorts of lessons that I've learned But I do want to just go back to this basic Idea because i do feel i still have to Convince people that love is the reason That we are here on this planet because There's always that resistance yes yeah Tell me because i'm telling you it's not Just some it's not just some far out Ideal But You know everyone that i've been talking To from psychologists at stanford University To a therapist in the deep south To Um you know recovering Evangelical christians and Coaches and therapists They all have expressed the same message That we all need love from The cradle to the grave So to speak We all need to be Seen understood Recognized for who we are And there is nothing more special Or essential As love [01:08:34] Zach: And just to give you like one example When i talked about Love affecting our health [01:08:40] Zach: Right and what's interesting is The presence of Love in one's life lowers the risk Factor one has for all All of them all causes of death Right every last one from heart disease To cancer To suicide right you think that would be Like on the front page of every news Station if you think but Well you probably saw again saw that Like there was this longitudinal Study at harvard university i'm pretty Sure it was done by george vallant who Also wrote this amazing book spiritual Evolution and after 70 years they also Of you know harvard scientific long-term Longitudinal research they also came to The same conclusion Right and And you're like how does that work right What do you mean all causes right and It's like what i often point out it's very Interesting what evolution has wired us To do and not to do So for example i can easily take my arm Up i can move my arm down What i cannot do is take my sadness up And take my sadness down We were wired to regulate our emotions Our stress With other people around us What does help you bring your sadness Down bring your anger down Talking with somebody sharing it with Somebody being vulnerable with somebody So Obviously [01:10:11] Zach: Love does help us regulate our [01:10:14] Zach: Own nervous system which has a bounty of Health and positive health effects But life is hard And none of us can do it alone So when we look at like well why is love A risk factor for suicide well it's like One way to say measure somebody's Um subjective experience of love and Connection you know you give them a Survey right so what are you going to ask them so one thing you might ask them Is do you have anybody in your life that You can share a secret with or Emotionally confident right you might Also ask them is there anybody in your Life that you could borrow 500 from If you like really needed it right and Unfortunately with each subsequent Generation we're more lonely and Isolated than ever before so the numbers Are getting worse But you know even a quarter of people Now have nobody in their life That they can talk to right So what happens when you can't borrow 500 from somebody well When you're behind on rent Guess what you get kicked out guess what You're homeless guess what you can't get Mail you can't get a job right it easily Puts you on this downward spiral that Will end up with some Over overall bad effects you know [01:11:26] Zach: Suicide alcoholism different things like That So this is this is real this isn't again Some kind of sky ideal this is real Life and this basic idea that we absolutely Need others To be happy and to survive Yeah beautiful that's Yeah that's a it's something In so many ways it seems so obvious you Know but we forget you know we get We get too caught up in the To caught up in the details you know and We forget the importance of just love so Um one thing that did pop into my Mind um something that i You know i think is something that i still that i still am trying to unwind In many ways in my own psychology is [01:12:17] Zach: transactional love like you do this for Me i'll do this for you um i like it Was it was something that i think that I learned at a young age as like a Survival technique sort of thing Um and i think it took me a while to Kind of Unfold it and um you know you know trust The people when they're like dude if you Need anything call me like you know to Really trust them like well i you know What if what if i don't answer my phone when you Called though and i missed my miss the Phone call and you know i don't know It's um Does anything spark to mind from that When i say transactional love and Unwinding that belief Uh yes the fundamental Inquiry around unconditional love If it's possible If it's worth it can it be done You know you might read something like Osho you probably know And he has this dialogue and he says Something along the lines of You know what most people call love is Not love it's just a transaction it's Just i will love you if you do these Things for me You know if you tell me i'm beautiful And you meet my emotional needs and you [01:13:32] Zach: Do these things for me then i will love You if you cease to do these things My love will be quite conditional You know if you I'll just like Cheat on me if you do some terrible Transgression my love will very quickly Turn to hate And um it is it is Kind of incredible you know there's a Certain the relationship that people do Have with their exes right the things That you sometimes hear people say and i Don't want to diminish like the very Real emotional pain and trauma that one Can experience in a romantic and loving Relationship but just merely to observe That somehow we have gone from you're The most important person in my life i Love you with every fiber and cell in my Being to I mean now you're just somebody i used to know Two here's my restraining order [Laughter] [01:14:27] Jacob: Yeah so Um The question you know so the question Kind of begins um what What are we to do about this and is Is that love is it real love and what [01:14:40] Zach: Does unconditional love look like And i've Personally Again there's many different ways i Could kind of approach it from But One thing i often find that people Forget on the path towards unconditional love Is the most important person You Is You can love everyone [01:15:08] Zach: Okay this is the path our path is to Love everyone without conditions believe It or not And who else You are included in that everyone Because that to me it tends to be one of The biggest obstacles Um because you do find i say like oh you Should love everyone open your heart as Much as you can and people will say Oh so someone in an abusive partnership Should just stay there because you know They love their partner or they're Staying together because they love their Kids it's like hold on i think you Forgot somebody You also need to love yourself you also Need to have a genuine concern and love For your own being So there's absolutely more like tender Versions of love like i've been had a Really rough day i'm gonna have a bubble Bath take care of myself And they're also more young more fierce Versions of love such as In order for me to love myself i need to Set up this boundary i need to Um Protect myself in a certain way Right so No absolutely not don't stay in an Abusive relationship because Of the love you have for your partner or Your kids because once you have a really Healthy and supportive love for oneself [01:16:27] Zach: Which again has to be unconditional are You gonna stop loving yourself because you made a Mistake no you have to recognize we all make Mistakes we're all human we're all as Ramdas would say walking each other home We're all uh our actions are unfolding according To our own karma and conditioning And You can so when you do have this that Healthy self-love an important part of That is appropriate boundaries Is being like i respect myself and honor Myself and i expect the people in my Life to respect me honor me take care of Me if you cross this boundary part of my Self-love practice will be to Separate and believe it or not i know This might be tough for you know some Folks to hear But you can Absolutely Love somebody And I'll say push it's kind of an active Word but i'll say and push them out of Your life or make the appropriate separation that You need between you and them so that They are not causing you unnecessary Suffering and you can say listen i love You're an incredible human being There's a fundamental goodness in all People including in you And no longer can you be in my life For these reasons Right yeah So [01:17:48] Zach: Opening one's heart to other people Doesn't mean you're gonna be some rug That gets walked over It doesn't mean that you have to tolerate negative Behavior toxic relationships abusive Relationships And that does start with In my mind a Love for oneself And part of that love recognizes that You are imperfect and still worthy of Love you make mistakes and still worthy Of love and we can extend that also to other People but we can also decide what people we Want in our life and what people we Do not want in our life right So even ram dot like ram das The late ramdas you probably know Richard alpert who turned into ram das Like he used to stay like on his Altar he would have a picture of you know Jesus and Buddha and then Dick cheney dick cheney And you look at like how can you know What is stopping me from loving this Person right and Then that's that is part of the path is Looking at their own resistance to Loving another human being Yeah i love that i find um a lot of Times in my meta or you know love loving Kindness meditations the thing that Really clicked for me the thing that [01:19:13] Jacob: Really worked for me um i use uh sam Harris's waking up app is one i like To use a lot but The act of you know visualizing someone That you know you know your dick cheney Or whoever it is visualizing that person You know as a child you know they were a Child once and uh you know they had a Whole life but before they were who they Were and you know they had parents and It kind of helps it's this little Doorway in you know and as a little tip And trick for anybody if it's Difficult often with meta um it's Difficult to immediately like think of Yourself and bring self-love to yourself So um sometimes you could use that as a Little doorway you know if you're Imagining someone else as a child well Can you think of times when you were a Child like wouldn't you wish yourself Love too and if you could visualize you Know yourself as a seven-year-old or Something and Okay i can feel love for them it starts To open a little bit of that heart Doorway in a sense you know into Yourself Absolutely i mean i sometimes repeat This quote and i think people have heard It so much it's almost turned into a bit [01:20:15] Zach: Of a cliche but i'll just say it that as Rumi would put it your task is not to Seek for love but merely to remove all The obstacles against it And part of our path of moving from Conditions to unconditional love is Recognizing the own obstacles our own Obstacles that we have put in the way of Our love and a huge part of that is looking at The people In our lives that we are Not loving and looking deeply at those Obstacles and i absolutely resonate very Much with that meditation we where you Progressively go to more challenging People right Because that's that challenge is those That challenge you the most that will That are pointing out um Exactly where it is you need to grow the Most yeah wow beautiful okay man well we're Getting up here in time um this has been Amazing like a whole episode about love I couldn't ask for anything better it's So great um so time has flown my friend Yeah it definitely has We had a great conversation zach um i Do want to make sure everybody knows you Know where to find you um you have an Instagram you're active on instagram you Post your new podcasts on there they [01:21:26] Jacob: Learn to Love podcasts um they can they Can find can they find all of your past Writings on amazon or is [01:21:32] Zach: Yeah all my books are available on Amazon for sure okay and then when [01:21:35] Jacob: Is when does Pebbles come out June 1st June reorder it now yeah cool yeah um Again i'm not i'm strange when it Comes to posting episodes so i'm not Sure exactly when this is going to when This is going to post Right now yeah it could be um I would love to if you're willing zach i Would love to um again if i didn't Mention anything that you want to make sure everybody knows mention that but i Would love to go out on another poem if You have another one you'd like to share Sure Um [01:22:07] Zach: So there's three sections of Pebbles for A second's Pebbles second one is leaves Which has slightly longer ones longer Poems kind of designed to look like Leaves and the third one is petals Designed like a beautiful blossoming Flower And I bring this up because i don't want to Make it seem like love is just sunshine And rainbows Or even that i'm just living in a state Of blissful sunshine rainbowy love Um and i have found That often on the path that A broken heart is a gateway to an open Heart And Definitely it seems like right now Is a Time frame that breaks our heart more And more Uh maybe You know 10 years ago he would say the Same thing but there's so much going on In the world from I don't want to politically ostracize Anybody but i'll just say from abortion Rights to Ukraine to A dying World that is under threat right now and That was another huge uh motivation for Pebbles is to cultivate a love for the Natural world For mother earth madrithira pachamama Mother gaia Because in our expanding our love to More and more people We of course cannot forget the non-human Non-living uh not living but uh Non-human creatures [01:23:48] Zach: And that is our task to me is to keep Our heart open Uh throughout it all To have the courage to Face Whatever it is that needs to be faced [01:24:00] Zach: Right now the most pressing Issues Um And who knows maybe by the time this Airs another Resting issue will be the main Event hopefully not hopefully we can Keep the camera angles not at the new New thing yeah But part of our path to me has always Been to widen the circles of our Compassion To more peoples and of course to the Natural world So this is one of the poems that's in Petals so He stands as just one petal on a big Flower And it goes like this They say the center of god's sphere is Everywhere And the circumference nowhere I have found the same to be true of an Open heart It feels all things Those choosing wallpaper and those Wondering if they will make it to the End of the day The hawk missing its babies And each blade of grass being cut No stacking of selfish justifications Will ever take you near enough to the Sky To taste its light where we live Drunk on cherry trees Dreaming of their bloom That's lovely man that's lovely Well man thank you for sharing thank you For sharing your poems um i'm looking [01:25:33] Jacob: Forward to checking out Pebbles when it Comes out um Thanks again for your time thanks again For sharing and uh of course you Know answering my rambling questions I appreciate it thanks for hanging with Me thank you so much jacob i love your Open-ended questions and your Thoughtfulness just really cares through In this work that you're doing so it's Been really wonderful to connect with You yeah absolutely likewise zach well Thanks so much um Listeners love yourself take care of Yourself you know breathe through your Nose breathe slowly Check out uh check out a yoga class and See what you can learn from it besides Just the physical things so Yeah all right man we'll uh we'll be in Touch zach i w Ill shoot you an email When this does post and otherwise have Good rest your day buddy thank you jacob Namaste At what age do we learn how to have Better conversations At what age do we learn to have better Conversations with ourselves Knowledge is power