# The JYLP ep. 088 with Bachelor In Arts Of Strategic Communication Spencer Hicks - Break The Hammer - Episode: 0088 - Date: 2022-08-02 - Duration: 2:41:10 - Guest: [Spencer Hicks](/guests/spencer-hicks/) - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgJutG6KCyQ - RSS: https://share.transistor.fm/s/7ad5e8fc - Spotify (show): https://open.spotify.com/show/45J7CBdM8j29doqyBp2bFs - Apple (show): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-junkyard-love-podcast/id1489118788 ## About "Spencer Hicks, Bachelor in arts of strategic communication; studies semiotics, enjoyed Hegelian dialectics and eats from the trash can of ideology." Various things that Spencer and I discussed throughout this convo: Philosophy, March Fischer, the state of modern society, hyper-realism, art, hauntology, Spencers' thesis, retro-futurism, cyber-punk, ontology, how art represents a culture, the roles of an artist to fight hegemonic belief systems, criticizing power structures, existential-dread, marxists criticisms, technology and robotic systems, ends of civilizations, kierkegaard, baudrillard, indoctrination, self-terminating systems, using the word 'inherently' too much, unusual behaviors we have, psychological quirks, Spencer shares what he’s been reading, listening to, working on and contemplating as of late, productivity, leaving a legacy as a trap, buddhist thought being captured by capitalism, self-help, I talk about myself a lot, remembering the nature of the self, Alan Watts and his book “The Wisdom Of Insecurity”, essentialism, David Fuller of Rebel Wisdom, propaganda, self-reflection, opposing political views, signs and symbols, personality, cognitive-miserliness, the apparent impossibilities of consensus, being wrong, The Intellectual Dark Web, Sam Harris & The Waking Up app, how we perceive one another, breaking stuff, nostalgia, the mandala effect, kundalini, and some more. If you enjoyed, consider hitting like or sharing with your tallest friend. cheerio ## Chapters (none published in episode notes) ## Quotes "It’s just like having your eyes refreshed all the time" "I fundamentally disagree with myself last year, every year. — Spencer Hicks" ## Guest links (from published notes) (none published in episode notes) ## Tags / keywords Spencer Hicks, Break The Hammer, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0088, JYLP 0088, semiotics, hauntology ## Archive picks Extracted from the YouTube auto-caption transcript and published links already on this episode. Labeled separately from Jacob’s published About / Chapters / Quotes / Hashtags. ## Memorable quotes - [02:03:27] Spencer: “Um I fundamentally disagree with myself Last year every year and I don't Discount and even if I objectively hate Everything that I thought five years ago I” - [01:25:57] Spencer: “Your eyes refreshed all the time it's Just really on its own Devoid of outside influence something That I just like that's it that's just How I am” - [01:55:09] Spencer: “square is to try to break the Hammer try to have somebody take the Glasses off take a step back maybe we Can look at the structures that” - [00:25:21] Spencer: “with an idea called hauntology which Is a just a just a devilishly clever Plan words because In French The word for ontology which is the Thought process” - [00:41:51] Spencer: “like I'm it's like eating Out of a trash can all of the time and You can't stop and that trash can is Ideology Delicious It reminds me” - [00:45:17] Spencer: “That it's self-terminating So So what we need is we need magical Thinking We need A real artist who isn't caught in the um The capitalism version of” - [00:18:48] Spencer: “the idea of the of hyperreality And uh he wrote a book that I'm Currently that's what I'm reading is uh Simulacra and simulation it's Actually what” - [01:49:21] Spencer: “Have this thing called cognitive Miserliness where you evolve to survive And conserve energy and your brain takes” ## Chapter-style timestamps - [00:00:00](#t-00-00-00) — Bumper — Raymundo / Spencer intro / knowledge is power - [00:17:28](#t-00-17-28) — Ghost in the Shell / cyberpunk thesis - [00:20:06](#t-00-20-06) — Baudrillard — hyperreality / semiotics - [00:25:21](#t-00-25-21) — Hauntology — Derrida / ontology of what’s not there - [00:41:51](#t-00-41-51) — Trash can of ideology / the unbroken hammer - [00:45:17](#t-00-45-17) — Self-terminating systems - [01:25:57](#t-01-25-57) — Eyes refreshed — shattering / perception - [01:33:07](#t-01-33-07) — Alan Watts — The Wisdom of Insecurity - [01:50:37](#t-01-50-37) — Cognitive miserliness / consensus - [01:56:16](#t-01-56-16) — Break the hammer — public square - [02:03:27](#t-02-03-27) — I fundamentally disagree with myself every year - [02:39:55](#t-02-39-55) — Close — lunch / backlog / knowledge is power ## Keywords Spencer Hicks, Break The Hammer, Junkyard Love Podcast episode 0088, JYLP 0088, semiotics, Hegelian dialectics, hauntology, Jacques Derrida, Jean Baudrillard, hyperreality, Ghost in the Shell, cyberpunk, retro-futurism, ontology, hegemonic belief systems, existential dread, Marxist criticism, self-terminating systems, Alan Watts, The Wisdom of Insecurity, Rebel Wisdom, David Fuller, Sam Harris, Waking Up, Intellectual Dark Web, cognitive miserliness, Mandela effect, kundalini, legacy, productivity, Jacob Rhines ## Hashtags #SpencerHicks #JYLP0088 #JunkyardLove #BreakTheHammer #Semiotics #Hauntology #Baudrillard #Hyperreality #GhostInTheShell #AlanWatts #WisdomOfInsecurity #RebelWisdom #CognitiveMiserliness #Kundalini #JYLP ## Short guest bio (from episode speech + published links) Spencer Hicks holds a Bachelor of Arts in Strategic Communication; the published notes describe him as someone who studies semiotics, enjoyed Hegelian dialectics, and “eats from the trash can of ideology.” On this episode he talks through his thesis work around Ghost in the Shell, hauntology, Baudrillard’s hyperreality, art’s role against hegemonic belief systems, productivity and legacy traps, Alan Watts, and why he says he fundamentally disagrees with himself every year. No guest contact links were published in the episode notes. ## Transcript [00:00:00] Jacob: What's up dorks it's me Raymundo from Rocket power I'm happy y'all are here I Appreciate anybody who is interacting Um listening taking any time out of your Day to listen to anything that I make or Create or do or um any of it like it's Very cool so very much appreciate you if You could if you don't mind like follow Subscribe just whatever app you're on Right now just like hit whatever it is Whatever the little Heart or the like or the whatever if you Have time to leave a review do that but Otherwise just live your life you know Do your thing I don't like lean reviews Myself so I appreciate anybody who Interacts with it uh this episode is Fantastic of course with the wonderful Spencer Hicks the uh the best of the Best reoccurring guests I always enjoy Our conversations very philosophical Often on the same page of kind of like Symbolism and meaning Um so yeah it's a great episode lots of Dope stuff that happens in the last half If you don't want to listen a whole two And a half hour whatever it is episode Just split it up listen to some today And some tomorrow so the next day whatever you got Um lots of episodes incoming [00:00:59] Jacob: Um I'm still you know trying to work out Life work schedule and maintaining Um trying to have like a good product Here and make it sound decent and you Know make the thumbnails and make the Clips and all that sort of stuff so Uh I'm keeping it going keeping it Rocking thanks again I appreciate Everybody for listening check me out um On Instagram it's where I'm most active Jacob from the internet and uh follow Interact with any of it thank you guys So much be well drink some water stretch Stretch before you run stretch after you Run Don't forget to move your body around go Outside in the morning it's good for you Live your life smile peace out let go of The tension in your shoulders read from Your diaphragm you know you know all the Tags take care of yourself love yourself Let's get into the episode knowledge is Power What are you what have you been into man I haven't talked to you in a while I Know it's been a while it's funny every Time we start texting it ends up not Being because each of our replies is Always so elaborate and long Like it's too hard every time we're like [00:02:17] Jacob: Oh we have so much to catch up on that's Why we need like a weekly catch-up Session just to like fill each other in It's hard because it's like those little Bouts of inspiration come Semi-fleetingly as well there's like two To three hours of the day where I'm like Really jazzed enough to send a seven Page text message and then also read one And respond to it yep so I'll feel like I'll be on one send you something and I'm like there's no way that you can Reciprocate this at this moment and I'm Totally fine with that and then that Will happen you'll send me a text two Days later it'll be like all right I'll Read it whenever I can comprehend this Well that's pretty much how it is and When it's not so much like hey how you Been oh not much just been working like Usually when we bring up something that We want to discuss this one with one Another it's like it's inherently Philosophical it's heavy yeah I Also can't explain it through text all The way either like it's just not a Means of communication that lends to a Like really concise elaboration so not Only is it be hard to understand anyways [00:03:20] Jacob: It's really hard to understand through a Really disjointed honestly sub-optimal Communication method yeah it's That's exactly right it's literally Already something that is near Impossible to put into words Already kind of dilute the whole thing As it is but when you're trying to text It's even worse it's like having a Serious conversation for Via Twitter or Something that's not So if I uh if I'm looking down at all I Brought like just some notes for this Because I feel like I there's like a lot Of stuff I've been into after I got out Of school I've just had the room to have My own intellectual Pursuits so I just Wrote some stuff down so I'll forget About it if I don't I would love to Um I would love to have you lead the Conversation so to say in that way like Wherever we go if you want to uh choose The next chapter that we turn a page Into Feel Free at any time to change the Subject to bring up what you've written down because I have I mean I always Glance at like what we've been texting About the last few weeks or whatever Um but I don't have anything written Down I'm just kind of here today So [00:04:24] Jacob: Yeah I actually do want to ask you about You said you went to a philosophy Meditation combo yeah I do want to Hear about yeah so pretty exciting I Went two nights ago And so it's through that app um I feel like my vocal is so it's Through that app uh In a sec I think I might just up a Little bit too high So it's the app Meetup like meetup. com And so I've like when I first moved To Austin a year ago I signed up and you Do all your interests and it shows you Like I get emails every day saying hey There's a yoga class or there's a Philosophy class or we're going to talk About this or we're um we're gonna do This book club whatever it is and I just Have not gone I finally went to my first One and I just decided I got one of the Emails and it was uh yoga philosophy Meditation and the subject was Free Will Versus Destiny and like well that's at My wheelhouse is something I'm contemplating quite often I just decided To go um it was wonderful man so uh it's a Meditation center it was just like a one Of the units of a building like on the [00:05:32] Jacob: Outside I'm like okay it's kind of like An office looking building and you walk Inside and it's basically like a warm Inviting home Um and you know there's pictures of you Know like enlightened leaders all over The all over the wall Um very welcoming there's like chairs Around Um a main area where someone would sit In the uh leader like I don't know what What to call him like I don't know if He's like the teacher or like if he Prefers some sort of guru-esque title it Doesn't seem like he does But uh yeah he led it so we did we did Some chanting Um you know as a way to like Center he kind Of explained what the mantras were And how they helped us to kind of like Get into our own body and connect to God Blah Um and then we went through basically a Lecture where he did where he discussed Uh Free Will versus Destiny it was very It was tasty I really liked it a lot it Was it was nice Um and then he was it was very open to Discussion at the end And it was what was his Free Will Conclusion I'm very curious to hear this Because and also to clarify I'm pretty [00:06:37] Jacob: Sure it gets got into like a Rousseau Incense right or like a spinosian sense where It's not like the capital G God it's Like God is everything like yeah Um yeah very yeah Buddhist you Know maybe even Hindu understanding Um it's essentially that God it's so hard to even think of like Exactly what he said just because I put So much of my own **** into it as he was Talking Um I mean it's that we that we do have I don't even know if I could summarize His overall points on it I mean Basically that we do have free will but Um I think it's kind of always in the Caveat of it's It's within a box like we You know I can't even recall I feel like I'm gonna completely butcher I was Thinking about going again tonight if I Have time because he does it like a Couple times a week but um maybe I'll Get a refresher and text you about it I Can't even I can't even pinpoint exactly What his points were on Free Will yeah For a while I was like kind of a hard Determinist or a couple things couple Reasons mostly biological reasons like Your series of neural synapses that um [00:07:52] Jacob: People can predict what you're going to Do before it happens and Because you technically didn't choose to Be born and you didn't choose your Nature any of your genetics or your Nurture or the environment you're Exposed to everything is just like a Cascading series of events that you Technically never chose it's just a Response to the last one I think that's Wrong I think that's wrong recently I uh I've Been listening to a couple thinkers and Um one of them talked about the Neurological studies where they can Predict what you're going to do before You do it immediately And yeah that posits the fact that we Can measure that neural response but it Fails to consider one the material Aspect that we exhibited enough will to Even learn that in the first place One like on a material sense and then Two the power to deliberate and say no It's like saying yes and having an Impulse to something is definitely not Your choice but like saying no kind of Is so I uh I'm bouncing back and forth on it Yeah my view is constantly expanding I've been um Something that I'm always thinking about And trying to like wrap my head around And like some days I feel like I believe [00:09:07] Jacob: It some days I've um I don't want to use the word believe Some days I embody it uh and I feel what It feels like to feel it Um and in a lot of it even the um the Meditation teacher whatever I don't know What to call it Um he has one of those long complicated Names too that like you get when you Go to the you know Tibetan mountains and You're like Ramana Like I don't know Um I probably sound so arrogant but uh The concept of Karma and past Lives comes into it and I know that on The surface that sounds like oh boy like You know Soul reincarnation and all that But there is like so I have heard people Explain it in ways where it completely Does kind of like answer certain Problems you know if you think ramdas Says um Uh I think his teacher told him you know Your lifetime uh it's like an Understanding of infinity it's uh if a Dove with a silk scarf in its mouth is To pass over the mountain in the time That it would take for that silk scarf Rubbing again or pass over the mountain Once every 100 years the time it would Take for that silk scarf to rub away [00:10:18] Jacob: That mountain is like how long an Infinity is that's how long you're alive For that's how long like your soul Reincarnates for so this is just a Lifetime within our reincarnations and So to look at free will in the sense of Like I am I am Jake with free will in These you know 100 years whatever 80 Years whatever it is Um it's not necessarily so much free you Have the free will to Um choose to I don't know like be in alignment with God or not in alignment with God I don't Know it gets complicated They're all very metaphysical Abstract it's actually really funny Though so I've been um reading at a very Notoriously hard thinker his name's High Digger he's German he Was a materialist and a phenomenological Phenomenologist from I believe he's Alive maybe 100 years ago but like a lot Of his thoughts presupposed A lot of the thinking that has come in Like modernity and he wrote a book Called I believe time and being And it kind of it's funny because it Lines up with a lot of Eastern ideas Kind of incidentally which is He retorts that The traditional logic of the I think Therefore I am like that's how we arrive [00:11:35] Jacob: At we are a being because we can think Like that is like uh evidence of being Alive or being a conscious actor Um takes one thing for granted and that's Just like being in general like you have To exist first to then have that Consciousness thing occur and all of That occurs in like a temporality so Your Consciousness is like unbridledly Connected to uh to time itself so it's Kind of got the same temporal feeling to It's just very interesting to see Through lines through very disparate Thinkers and ideas right yeah no I love It I really like when um like a newer Science comes about and it's like oh It's presented in this way and it's like Nice and organized and then it's like oh Yeah they're like it there's actually Pretty much the same thing in the Bhagavad-gita you know or some other Like Rich text you know it all kind of Comes full circle and it is Um the time thing is pretty Profound you know we are kind of locked In our perception of time and it's Interesting to think about if you think About like time travel Um we think of time travel like kind of Like Immaturely sometimes like um It's a misunder our understanding of [00:12:50] Jacob: Like the Back to the Future sort of time Travel where you go back like that is a Vast like misunderstanding of what we Are and like what reality really is and How we fit into it you know not just our Ego Persona either just our actual Experience of right now Yeah the difference between like time Itself as like a structural concept and Time as you perceive it that's anchored In Concepts and weird temporalities like You anchor your sense of time and Existence through like events objects Symbols cultural events stuff like that So it's not like it doesn't feel linear So the way we experience time is just Like not time as it is and it can be Really distorted and uh Actually Heidegger talks about that too So when he does the example for why the I think therefore I am thing is not Necessarily like the initial question to Ask he talks about so like if a worker has a Hammer you because you're steeped in the Hammer like you have it in your hand And you're using it just kind of becomes A big part of you like you take it for Granted when it breaks you're really Super immediately aware that it's broken And like all of a sudden you notice [00:14:02] Jacob: Everything so it's kind of like that That temporality is being broken And I thought that was interesting just Because It kind of transfers to just taking a Step back out of like all the stuff that Shoots you through life Where you kind of stop paying attention To anything you kind of get burdened to The mundane and you actually it does Feel like time travel right it'll be Friday all of a sudden you're like oh **** hmm yeah our ability to like adapt To something like not only just a tool Be an extension of our hand but you know Even if like even our technology is kind Of an extension of our hand like it's a You know a psychological tool in a lot Of Senses but it allows our hand And our like sense of our being to be Expanded just like yeah it goes on Notice and it's even transferable to Like ideology as well like it's Something that you're just steeped in All the time you're never looking at it Uh we're told that we live in a society That's post ideology but it is just Something that is ever present no you Just stop looking at it you just forget That it's happening and until it kind of [00:15:05] Jacob: Breaks you got to look at your own or Something really bad happens you don't Really look at it Like oh **** I've been taking all this For granted and all the things that I Thought were implicit truths are Actually subjective and taught to me Well I think it speaks to our ability to Uh like just get used to things like we Could just we could get used to any State or like I was I was actually Reading um I went on a walk this morning And was re-listening to Viktor frankl's Man search of meaning And uh it was getting to the part where Um Gosh what was it he's kind of like he's Talking about different ways they were Finding joy and like it was almost like A currency for someone to like perform Some sort of art or sing like amongst The amongst the prisoners you know Because that like it's like oh I haven't Felt joy for two months like I just Remember oh yeah oh God and then they They talk about this part where someone Came running into the chambers or Running into the um you know prison uh Their bunks or whatever he was Like come look outside and they [00:16:06] Jacob: Look outside and there was like a beautiful sunrise or a beautiful sunset Or something and uh and they were able To like in the midst of all that like See the beauty you know and so it's Just interesting you know to even for The human mind to find beauty amongst All of that suffering you know in the Concentration camps in Auschwitz and Stuff so but yeah we just get used to It in a sense and we only notice you Know I guess when it's broken it's like When the state is changed that's when we Notice yeah I mean that's like hi to Your whole point and actually he calls Those little moments when the thing Breaks or temporal ecstasies Like you finally like oh something has Been shattered it's a like some it has Become immediately obvious and relevant That something has been here the whole Time and I've just been not perceiving It because I've been steeped in it Seems like we're kind of going through Culturally civilization-wide like we're Going through a ton of those like um I hate to bring in this word right Here but Awakenings Um they're kind of like our Awakenings In a sense right like you understand Something Suddenly to where you can step outside [00:17:12] Jacob: Of it like oh I didn't realize I was Doing that or like oh I didn't realize like I was holding this tool it was just A piece of me Maybe Maybe we'll see so another uh so the Paper that I wrote uh was uh like Um [00:17:28] Spencer: It was on Ghost in the Shell which is a Anime sci-fi cyberpunk film from the mid 90s and it's Asks a bunch of questions like what is Life like it's ontological movie so it's Trying to determine like uh what is the Nature of existence like do robots live Like what is it really and that's not Really the nature that I analyzed it in Because it's like contained film but I Actually analyzed it Juxtaposed to its remake which strips All of the meaning out of that and makes It just kind of like a generic sci-fi Film and the lens that I used to analyze It through is a man named Mark Fishers And his writings are a criticism of Neoliberalism so which it can be Categorized as like Ronald Reagan Margaret Thatcher X politics where we Took away all social programs and like Anything that would help people in Society just for like Market pressure Which led to Media being recycled So Like Um instead of artists having the freedom In society to make new art they would Just repackage old art to sell it again That's why you see a lot of sequels now There's like 40 million Marvel movies Like nothing really new ever comes out It's kind of like [00:18:48] Spencer: The same thing is just remixed over and Over again And uh he posits that Like the future is dying essentially Like it's the slow cancellation of the Future and we never really experience Anything new so I used that idea to Analyze the next movie Where Oh what is it Or I mean it basically just is a worse Version or like a simulacrum Of the first one so are you saying the Remake Devoid of like the themes and just Kind of like recycled Nostalgia like Ruins the point of the movie like Like what really did your what did Your paper say like what was the yeah I'm struggling to figure out where I Want to start this because this so his Work is complex but it's built on Another person's work that's complex so Maybe I should start with that one so uh His work is inspired by a French Philosor named Jean Baudrillard and he came Up with the idea of the of hyperreality And uh he wrote a book that I'm Currently that's what I'm reading is uh Simulacra and simulation it's Actually what the Matrix is about it's In the opening scene that book that Neo Looks at which in the context of that Film it means something way different if [00:20:06] Spencer: You are aware of that versus not But so he talks about like his system is Uh on semiotics and symbols so the study Of how words and symbols mean something Are used in society which is actually Like a lot of what my education was Turns out I found out posthumously So he posits that we went from like a Normal agricultural culture where we Just like made Regular goods for a Really long time and then we traded them Everything the reality was as it was There was nothing distorting it in any Way we shifted into a production stage where People stopped having that Liberation at Work and um marketing kind of became a thing At that point in time because it's like Uh we have like a Mercantile capitalism You're making money You're buying things you need to be sold Through images and persuasion To now we have like an Information Society so it's like post-cultural or I Mean you could classify it as postmodern Where Every symbol that we see is no longer Really rooted in something that is real It's just like a copy or a simulacrum of A previous symbol So everything is self-referential that's What the use of logos are you can see it In like interior design like all of the [00:21:26] Spencer: Minutas it's all everything in the way a House is laid out is supposed to Communicate to you something like an old Victorian house it was like really Traditionally cluttered there was like Paintings everywhere and this is Supposed to communicate to you that There's like wealth and Prestige here And that is slowly morphed into now We've got like Supreme shirts right like This is like a weird symbol of wealth And uh all of the ads that we see Everything is just kind of like Self-referential in a way you can see it My favorite example is like the Travis Scott McDonald's Merger so there is like fundamentally Nothing really real about this like Travis Scott his only image is just hype You don't really know anything about him And it's just this weird Mash of like High symbolism but there's it's very Vapid right there's no way to make sense Of any of it's just like the whole Thing has become self-referential And Mark Fisher talks about that and That's why I talked about this film Because in devoid of any real true Meaning in any of these symbols because They're all hyperreal uh we are doomed To just repeat The ones that we've already seen because It seems like we've lost the ability to [00:22:49] Spencer: Make anything new which would be the Second Ghost in the Shell hmm yeah I mean That's that is this weird thing where Why aren't we creating new things why Are we recycling why are we trying To grasp at things that like once We kind of realize the illusory nature Of things why aren't we able to go like Oh and then you know take the take the Mask off our face or take the glasses Off our face and readjust or is that Kind of like what we are Approaching in society is like a Re-understanding of symbols and meanings Instead of recycling old ones and trying To make them work well there's just like No Real symbols or meanings anymore they're Just all self-referential like we Stopped to perceive a reality like this Is really through the nature of Technology too just like the way we are Engaging with images and symbols now is Uh so different than it once was in this Kind of really distorts reality in a lot Of ways and a big part of this is Market Fundamentalism so People that are making images that are Persuasive movies art needs to be able To sell it in the best way to sell that Is to make images that are Self-referential and nostalgic [00:24:04] Spencer: So it is completely handicapped and Hamstrung the ability for the artist to Make new art and you can see I mean it Is one of the most destructive things Physically imaginable for you to Hamstring art and culture it's like a Really important structure that needs to Happen it needs to be able to challenge Things and it really hasn't been able to And Mark Fisher's whole work is he was Like really into the underground Punk Scene in England so he talks about a lot Of the artists that have come out of These neoliberal periods just being Really disenfranchised and then After about 10 years in the late 90s it Just stopped happening we're just Getting repriced pop music the repraisal Of like Lo-Fi beats is a really good Microcosm example of this so it's just Like a really comforting noise with a Bunch of sound bites from your childhood That's it so it's just like Because we yearn for something new in Something that feels good because stuff Is so bad all right like the market Fundamentalism has been terrible for Everybody our generation is like Destitute houses are half a million Dollars you just need something that is Comforting and you it's the only place We can find it So what is it [00:25:21] Spencer: So what were the correlations that you Drew what was like the main things that You drew from the original To the new remake like what did you Pose was lost I think that I should talk about why I Chose to do it anyways because I really Forced it in a lot of ways it turned out Pretty good this is like a 26 page paper So It's like it's gonna be kind of hard to Condense this and honestly I would Probably need more notes than I Currently have to do it really concisely But uh it was mostly fun word play That's why I got it started so It started out with A thinker named Jacques Derrida who came Up with an idea called hauntology which Is a just a just a devilishly clever Plan words because In French The word for ontology which is the Thought process in science and Philosophy of being in existence Which is hauntology which is focusing on What is not there so it's like haunting Ontology and that the front part of that Word is actually silent in French so They are the same word but not when They're written So I'm like that is devilishly smart Wicked intelligent so and it's uh used To critique retro futurism [00:26:41] Spencer: Normally which is like okay well Ghost In the Shell is a cyberpunk film and uh What haunts things ghosts do This is a Ghost in the Shell is a movie About ontology other than being and Knowing but it just happens that the Second film is a hauntological example [00:26:58] Jacob: Yeah of the first one because it's just [00:27:01] Spencer: Like a it's a simulacrum it's a hyper Real adaptation that is just like a mimic Copy of the first one and because we Can't get new art We are haunted by old art Damn [00:27:16] Jacob: Yeah so that's so like metal and so You know our at its core but It also like too real I guess it's Metal because it's too real yeah so uh I That's why I started it and I Actually just over the course of Researching just like I have never Fallen in love with a thinker more than Mark Fisher he just speaks so collically He was alive really recently he actually Committed suicide sadly in 2017. but it Just I've never encountered somebody That is a verbalized how I feel Like I'd say so potently so nicely and In a way that is like beautiful with Examples that I understand very cleanly Yeah I mean you sent me that Video I was like at the airport or Something you sent me that video I think [00:28:02] Spencer: It was on hauntology and it was I was Like I re-listened to it when I got back Onto the airplane too because it was Just like oh my God I wanted to write Down everything he was saying because Like that's what I'm trying to put into Words when I'm talking to people Sometimes so yeah I'm totally yeah I Really it's made me think of you a Lot because in a way I felt like you are Encumbered by the situation of society When it comes to the fact that uh art is So hamstrung like culturally and the Symbols that we use are just so they're Just so reused and re-washed and the uh Ecology of Art Is just being destroyed by the fact that Uh money needs to happen and the market Doesn't accept people that are uh into Abstracts and offshoots in uh novelty We've just lost the ability to do that Just because it doesn't make money it's Not Market appealing that's why we get Avengers 12 instead of yeah new Superhero right yeah which is like You're missing the point of art you're Actually like you're draining the source Of what the art is supposed to be you Know like put pushing against the edge Of what human beings have ever known or [00:29:10] Spencer: Done or thought about is what an [00:29:12] Jacob: Artist does what do you think you Actually had started to say something a few minutes ago about Um about like the role of the artist do You have an opinion uh on let's say not To put words in your mouth but like the Importance of the artist in a society or Like the importance of the you know Poetic even comedic thinker I am you can You can remove some importance that's That's no I think that art in itself Music in particular uh poetry uh thought I guess in general Uh is Really important for society to be Pressing up against the edges of it and [00:29:51] Spencer: Most especially there to fight hegemonic Belief systems that's what art has been For like it just is there to criticize How things are and how the power Structures are so if that is usurped by The power structures Which is global Capital neoliberal Market fundamentalism if they control That art and they kind of drip feed it In we get nothing that is ever new and Nothing that ever questions that and it Leads to like just such a potent Existential dread where you just feel Like It's just everything is so watered down And the same and there's just like Nothing revolutionary about it when art From the 80s Like the Wall came out like stuff was Like really adamantly pressing against All the systems that uh technically bind Us but that is no longer occurring and The place of Art in society is to do That and if it cannot do that uh people Get very mad and they should be mad I Mean I'm mad about it's terrible We're ruthlessly boring too So boring 100 it really is I'm with you a million Percent on that where is the Where is you know the Clash of London now like where is where Are the punk rock people in a society [00:31:10] Spencer: Now like the people who were like Um you know pointing out because it's Almost like we've like they've been Creepily integrated into society and Sold back to us and it's almost like a Fake version of wearing the Leather jacket you know what I mean like It's a that there's like a faux version Of Pistols you know just like it was a joke All along [00:31:34] Jacob: Yeah so this is [00:31:36] Spencer: I um a lot of my thought process Analysis comes as a critique to Capital And it's not and it's technically a Marxist criticism but it's not because It's just capitalism bad it's because Capitalism is like a hegemonic structure It's literally just like the status quo That's what it's symbol of so if I'm if I'm going to refer to it as that it's More of how that affects the ideology of Societies I'm preempting an argument It's how it affects the ideology and Thought process and production of Society more than like the basic Economics of it the whole communication And ritualistic pathway in which that we Derive at uh culture essentially so Capitalism eats everything it just it Just does so like you get any Revolutionary thinker you can see this In um Uh in gay movements uh any feminist Movements uh the The Civil Rights Movement so this is Something that is inherently really Radical and important right it is by Nature completely going against what Capital is it's questioning the Hegemonic structures and the power Structures that are currently In place Capital will defang it Make remove it of all revolutionary Context package it cleanly and then sell It back to you And it just does that it eats everything [00:33:03] Spencer: And then people just get comfortable in That and especially so if you're a fat Artist you're the artist okay let's say You have a very revolutionary thoughts Um you get pushed through the music industry you make a lot of money [00:33:13] Jacob: Well the system that you were once Criticizing now works for you really Well so you're in the three percent of people That really have a vested interest in it Not being criticized actually so it Waters down the Revolutionary art and This is not like an explicit Behavior Right nobody is actively like hey we Gotta recruit X rapper and then make them like work For McDonald's it's just like a thing That happens because of the cultural Incentives in society I think a lot of Times we think it's like evil Billionaire billionaires are making this Happen and I think it's more what you're Saying is it's a result of what Capitalism is it's yeah which is still Bad and I actually billionaire is not Off the hook but I don't think that they On purpose do it's just a consequence And it's bad no matter what you Know I just don't think that there's Like some like Goblin somewhere pulling A lever telling like the White Stripes To be something else or whatever [00:34:08] Spencer: Whispering in Jack White's ear telling Him what to say on the record it's just And I think that's the Insidious Nature of it is it's just the way that The incentive structure of society is Will inherently defang everything it Just eats everything it's honestly Impressive That something could be so potently Hegemonic with it's so technically Really unstable every 10 years it just Almost fails like the whole all of the Economic sphere almost just like fails All the time it's like one of the least Stable systems you could probably ever Make and yet it's somehow never actually Fails all the way and also eats Everything that ever contends with it That's insane that's crazy Just keep going [00:34:57] Jacob: Yeah I mean what At what level do we as a species like Like snap out of it though like Quit putting paint over it you know quit Quit rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic so to say Yeah create a structure somehow that Do you do you think that a lot of our This might be a huge side step so we can Ignore but do you think that a lot of Our um investment into like Ai and Technology is like some sort of Answer to the fear like hopefully if we Just create this it'll answer all the Questions like if we you know lean Towards some sort of Singularity Movement it will help us all out and Then if we could take all this data that We have that we don't know how to deal With and how to you know make a workable System for the future of humanity and Hopefully these robots will help us out Do you think it's anything like that Um actually bulliard talks about this He's in semi-critical of the systems in Place because of Technology I can't remember the example Of this these are all really complex Thoughts that I didn't create and I Don't really know enough about to fully Elaborate but I'm gonna try [00:36:02] Jacob: So the way that systems work now in General their informational systems that Operate independently of each other that Act as filters based on a like at Abstract number so like the school Systems grades uh the banking system is Credit Um anything else that the medical system Is your medical history You kind of just get like ping-ponged Around this system and it's like really Strong and nobody's technically Controlling it because it's computerized So that leads to really interesting Systems of control that are technically Not [00:36:33] Spencer: Singular but they are hegemonic as in They all act as filters for any action That would operate outside of that and That's directly due to the mechanistic Actions of society that were not present Before that makes sense it's like if you Live in a village like that's not How you got filtered through Society But now you get filtered through Society In like 15 different ways with all Different numbers So be it's just so ever present Like in and it feels almost like a frog Boiling of water because when we had Kings or tyrants you knew you knew you Were being controlled there was no Illusion of freedom in any way it's like [00:37:16] Jacob: Yeah I'm a certified make rice that's it So I can live here But now you feel like you have choice Because you're being you kind of have a Little bit of freedom in all of these Systems that are playing and nobody's Technically controlling them And you can like choose your health care I guess which is like a false illusion But there's like a there's a facade of Choice so people don't feel not free They don't feel controlled and they [00:37:42] Spencer: Don't feel like that there's a hegemonic Structure that is disallowing them from Breaking Free but almost all of the Informational systems that we engage With and just do that [00:37:52] Jacob: Yeah it's like we're suffering but we Have the illusion of somehow being in Control like it's like our we're Distracted from our suffering we're We're suffering and we're in a prison Cell but we got a Game Boy you know Yeah absolutely I mean it's just uh This is the systems of control they're Really Insidious and they're really hard To see if you're not looking at it's Like you got the hammer and it works Right hasn't broken yet technically I Know that's not a one-to-one example but It's the same uh recognition of that Is there is everything that we like Think is necessarily true or that is Like um Implicit in society all of these systems Like it's just how it is but because you Didn't look at it all the way like all Of these systems are communicating Something to you they're all technically Signs and symbols and that communication Is objection control But because you feel free within them Because we are told we are free with Them you um you take them as Implicit and you don't look at it the Hammer is working it's not broken yet How many like Towards the ends at the end you know as Far as if we look at our history towards [00:39:03] Jacob: The end of other civilizations It seemed like they would likely come up With similar observations that we have Been like that modern thing I mean That guy died in 2017. is it Mark Fisher That you were talking about yeah I mean That was that was bulliards thought Process on machines but no it's inspired It's basically the same like thought Line chain how do we how do we like Within with real intelligence Take where we're at and our observations Of them and um And not are like mine and your Self-importance situation but just Well like how do how do we take Like hey here's the thing that's Going on and how do we actually like Actualize it how do we you know because Because after a while if we start to Understand oh we're doing the thing that Other civilizations did right before They ended like they were able to Assess kind of their situation Um and come to these similar conclusions We find ourselves to those same Crossroads so this is a good you know uh Understanding of our future and where We're going to go like how would a Civilization A just course I think that would be all It's so close modernity can literally Not be compared to any other time in [00:40:19] Spencer: History because of that simulacrum Simulation hyperreal setting right so Because like reality was apparent and Obvious in other cultures it was more Easy to discern what is occurring even If it was technically everybody is just A part of their own specific ideology And same thought process and truths Universal in their small microcosm of The world right it's a Greek city-state There's like some basic contentions but Everybody is just like the reality is What it is Because of the way that the media Works In general which is like for better for Worse like it's just how it is Um you can be subjected to and believe a Large series of things and there's no Actual clean thought line or a belief Structure that is occurring and I'm not Saying that's good I prefer polysemic Societies where there can be many truths We just appreciate all of them and then We intersect them so here are all the Available readings of something we Conclude something new in the middle [00:41:21] Jacob: Right but It is impossible to make sense of it It's just like it cannot occur like Consensus is just not a mechanism that Can be reached anymore this is not going To happen because everybody is just like Steeped in ideology the hammer of Ideology is not broken nobody can see it So it's just like we take all these Things that we see as implicit truths it Just it's Common Sense which is not a Thing that's real it's just something That's reaffirming all the things that [00:41:51] Spencer: You've been taught by hegemonic Structure and uh it doesn't actually change it's Not going to I'm very nihilistic about This exact thing unless people can uh Question see the hammer break Which is You hear people complain about ideology All the time like as a concept like some Thinkers do that you know that's why It's because it's just like you're just Steeped in it like I'm it's like eating Out of a trash can all of the time and You can't stop and that trash can is Ideology Delicious It reminds me Um I mean I suppose so now that you've seen You've seen the good place all the way Through right yeah I love the good Points yeah I think it's great yeah There's a moment that I find myself in Often where I'm sitting on my hands Um the moment where you know towards the End of the end of the show where they Have Phoebe from friends and forget the Actor's name Um but she's in like the really Good place you know Do you remember uh her showing up Uh I don't know so I actually I don't Think I've seen it all the way through Necessarily because my girlfriend why we Watch stuff differently so she'll like [00:43:01] Spencer: Binge watch stuff we're in like a Sitting and I usually don't so I've seen Like 70 of it disparately okay so I Don't remember that too basically they Get to the to the end where it's you can Have everything you ever wanted forever And it's unlimited Margaritas it's Unlimited Daiquiris and they're Literally the best tasting Daiquiris you Could ever have and it's complete bliss All the time Um but uh and I think I've even Mentioned this to you before there's a moment where she like breaks Out and she like remembers it's like all These delicious Daiquiris but then she Remembers like oh uh yeah my brain has Completely turned to Mush like it's Nothing like I'm lost in the Illusion like she doesn't remember she Was some like a big mathematician and She completely forgot like all of her Intelligence from before because her Brain just turned to Mush from what She was doing Um and it kind of reminds it like sometimes That's where I find where I find Myself and I'm sure many you know people Who think about these sort of things Find themselves is you almost snap out Of your like Bliss and enjoying Enjoying the dance of life to go like oh [00:44:04] Spencer: Wow this is like this is this isn't it Like we're kind of going towards the Edge of something here that's not Sustainable So and um it's definitely not sustainable So Just the modes of a production that we Use in general I mean look like look at The climate crisis stuff like that and Marx had a concept that was uh it's the Base superstructure model so the base of His Society is the means of production In which that we make good Services how The fundamental economics works and this Might be reductive and it might not Necessarily perfectly apply to Everything but it's just a simple model So that this condition that people are Their material condition what they're Subjected to informs the superstructure Which is culture ideology philosophy Uh politics anything that would require Extrapolation from that and you're just Kind of steeped in that all the time It's the it's the unbroken Hammer it's The working Hammer right you just take It as implicit it's just a truth it's Not it's a construct And uh that is fundamentally Unsustainable the one that we have for Anybody and it's like pretty obvious [00:45:17] Spencer: That it's self-terminating So So what we need is we need magical Thinking We need A real artist who isn't caught in the um The capitalism version of being an Artist yeah I just uh I don't think any artist really wants to Be necessarily And it's interesting because you see the Pushback on revolutionary movements in General like People will hate feminism or just like Any movement any social movement That is in direct contradiction to that There is like a pretty big media outcry Against it in a lot of ways And then you will also see Even people who are sympathetic to it Will Commit nothing more than symbols and Gestures like hey we stand in solidarity With X movement but you're a politician You don't ever do anything about it Because you benefit from the hegemony Like the way that things are The base that has been constructed you Are direct recipient of so yeah dude to Quiet you down give you symbolic Victories and then nothing material will Ever change and changing the material Conditions is how we change the Superstructure which is how we get Actual change it blows my mind how many People don't see the symbolic Victory Thing that you just mentioned like the Um uh there's a place here in Austin [00:46:45] Spencer: Called it was called the Russian house And it's like this like big place and You go and you drink there and it's been Here forever and that's the name of it And then when the Ukraine Russia thing Started happening they changed their Name to the house They got rid of the word Russia Russian House and I'm like ironically that is also a Capitalizing something because that you Know what that does bring publicity now They make more money so it's just **** everywhere it just eats Everything there's like just nothing Kind of like mindless people are you Trying to attract to your business Though like people with money anybody That will spend money doesn't matter Doesn't matter how you come across Currency I don't think it's that smart Though like I don't think that there was Anybody like I don't think the owner of That was like uh let's get some eyes on Us like I mean maybe unconsciously they Were like virtue signaling that you know that Is what's going to happen like let's Make sure that everybody knows that we're the good guys but um I don't it's So weird like I like and then when you Go to speak about it we get caught in Between they're like oh so you so you're [00:47:44] Spencer: So you're with Russia it's like what I Wasn't even in that context so I'm like Multiple layers uh removed from that we Get caught up with um with like the Words or like the subject of it's Kind of like the arguments of free Speech like peop people get more Obsessed with the um You know like the content within what You're talking about like oh well you Don't believe in trans rights it's like Well no maybe I just believe in like This person's ability to speak about Them or whatever like the Dave Chappelle Situation But we just Like our variability not only to Like discuss the proper things but even Like see the correct angle or the Correct like setting of the argument we Completely waste time on the **** I Think that uh words and prose are Actually really important and It's not only making the criticism it's Making a criticism that is good right so [00:48:40] Jacob: Yeah I think that uh [00:48:43] Spencer: The Russian house changing their name to The house Is like whatever they want to do right That's fine you're gonna bring somebody In technically I virtue signal is Overused because technically almost Everything you do is a signal of virtue The clothes you wear it's all like Almost all human behavior is a signal to Other humans about some kind of virtue It's not necessarily something that I Can uh Crocheted at in any way like if that's That's how you want to communicate That's fine but I do think it is Short-sighted because There's been a weird thing with all the Russian stuff especially with small Businesses that are technically like Russian it's like you business owner bar owner Did not actually start a war and yes This might be just a like you're showing Solidarity which is like totally fine You know I don't even think that's a bad Move no big deal I actually think that That's kind of cool But it seems like It's a little weird Like just uh maybe you could like put a Facebook post out but if that's how You actually want to communicate you're In solidarity and you're not supporting Russia maybe they just don't want to get their bar vandalized which happened to a [00:49:54] Spencer: Lot of Russian places yeah there's a lot Of very real material reasons why the Kitchen I guess it just seems like the wrong Just seems like the wrong area of focus On it like it's or like a minuscule Area of focus over a bigger deal Like moralization or just uh having Those Uh virtue signals like that especially When it comes to social improvements is In response to having object Powerlessness to actually change the Material condition so uh I genuinely Believe the moralization of most things Is a response to the fact that we don't Have any revolutionary Pathways as in The only way that we can put up a fight Or put a front up against something that Is so oppressive to everybody which is Just the systems that currently are in Control is to uh do that Because like I mean you can't really It's so ever present how else are You gonna rebel I guess it is like it's A move we can make yeah like so like [00:50:58] Jacob: Yeah it feels like it feels like agency To be able to do that Um so I don't even I'm not even gonna Criticize that I think that's necessarily a good thing it's just um It's just unspoken I don't think my criticism was I mean I guess I use the specific example so It sounds specific at them but it wasn't So much in the subject matter as it is Like uh an example of our broader Confusion of how to like react to things And how uh yeah like you said where it's A it's a something we can do I guess yeah I do selflessness and you feel a little Bit of something well I know that uh you Don't like heuristics You don't like the oh you didn't say the Right you didn't say the right well you Didn't make the right Noise Okay so I Infer that you uh hold all opinions and Opposition to thing that I like right Which Yeah that kind of sucks and I'm really Not a big fan of being a moralist in General but it would make sense why that Would happen because there's like let's See trans rights so because of the way Of the internet And um how potently people are against [00:52:13] Jacob: That even in very uh seemingly rational According to the popular belief or ideas Of culture are against that like the Sports thing is a touch point which Nobody actually it's for you forces You to question trans issues on a Broader sense but gives you a logical Reason to want to do it so there's a lot Of people that are just putting up a Massive front against trans issues which Would cause people who are Pro trans issues I guess is a very Clumsy way to say it to infer any time That you have any detraction From any point that's being made that You like everybody else That they see is having the inverse idea Which is Their identity is not valid they're not Valid as people and they shouldn't Receive rights which is what a lot of People would implicitly believe Even if they aren't aware of that their Actions and words would say that so I Understand the moralistic response not Saying it's always appropriate but it Definitely makes a lot of sense in a Social frustration level Yeah right it's I'm Constantly Um I think you said it right I'm just Like I'm confused at the Over obsession with like the actual Language or like you're clearly [00:53:29] Jacob: Standing up for this side if you don't Whatever like it's uh Yeah I just think we focus on the wrong Parts of it of an issue and we don't Like we kind of get sidetracked as Like oh we're solving the thing and We're really going at the issue here but It's we're completely missing it yeah It's hard from our angle right Where it's like these issues even though I am in 100 support of all of them and I Wish more people to have more rides in Liberty no matter what their Creed Ethnicity identification is uh I'm Inherently not part of these communities So the way that people talk about them And interact with them inherently Doesn't affect me in any way So sometimes it's easy to feel like it's Being talked about in the wrong way or It is something that uh seems Unreasonable but it's just because I Don't have any skin in the game and a Lot of people do as well so just because That I would think that maybe some kind Of like More realistic brow beating or Um these very hyper-specific language That is used is uh Missing the point It's just not always necessarily about Me I guess that situation and I'm not Saying we should cowtail to everybody [00:54:39] Jacob: That ever has any idea ever but I do Like to temper that sometimes with like It's easy for me to say you're getting Enough progress even though I wouldn't I Don't necessarily say that but it's easy For people to say yeah we're making our Progress because that progress doesn't Affect my material conditions at all Right I like I'm a white dude Right I come from like a middle to upper Class family like I no matter what Happens I'm gonna be fine Really no matter what social pressure Occurs so I don't know bro I think white Dudes are on the out right now I don't I Think it's unpopped I don't know Dude these days I'm just joking I don't know but you should look at Congress You're like white dude's been in my Dude's been in for a while But yeah I don't know man It's all just a **** mess to be Honest because uh symbols are Self-referential and nothing means Anything Pretty much and we're just living Through our symbolism so what have you What have you found yourself I mean now That you have completed your thesis and You're on the other side of this Schooling thing what have you found Yourself contemplating lately like [00:55:49] Jacob: Even if the answer is not on a Larger philosophical level like where do You find yourself even in your in your Body in your in your life like What's been so I immediately when it was Done because I've been in school for Like seven years in a very circuitous Route I kind of spent I really was I Didn't grow up very fast you know So I spent the first couple years of College just kind of like going to music Festivals and just existing in it and Then over time I slowly became very Interested in philosophy and then I Really got into academics and my last Two years of school I had one specific Professor he was he's a doctorate in [00:56:25] Spencer: Semiotics and a doctorate and I'd maybe Like uh pedagogy which is just teaching In general but I can't remember what it Is something else Linguistics Maybe But we have almost identical worldviews I found out and I talked to him a lot we Became actually pretty close And um I slowly over time realized that all of My thoughts all the philosophies that I Enjoy and all the thinkers I like are Just in the realm of semiotics so just Signs and symbols And it really didn't all hit me I didn't Really understand that until I almost Got done writing that paper and Remembered what his major was like What He is Specializes Holy **** like this is the thing this is The thing that I like enjoy and it is Like really intriguing to me and I Incidentally I just learned a lot about When school was over I really felt Ideologically sad like I felt like a Morning of a community I felt the loss Of intellectual pursuit in the space in Which that occurs in because it is a It's a beautiful Safe free space that is doesn't have Anything like going to class together Literal just hanging out in school it's Just the one place in life that it's not [00:57:41] Spencer: About show me the money you know you can Talk about abstract stuff I just felt Like without that space I was going to Lose Lose the time and well the area to do Abstractions three of show me the money And uh to some degree I feel like that That is true but after I mourned that And had some closure it's just kind of Weird verbiage I'm using but it really Really felt like that uh winter Graduation had that weird like liminal Space emptiness feeling uh it's been Really liberating actually it's now I've realized that I still love Intellectual Pursuit and now I can just Do it as freely as I want whenever I Want that's pretty much all I've done since I've been done it's just like read And listen to stuff So you don't feel uh because I was going To jump to like well hey maybe you could Start your own weekly group and you know Maybe blah like you don't feel you Don't feel like you're um losing Something with the lack of community [00:58:39] Jacob: There you feel like you're kind Of able to more like let's do the Solo philosopher thing for a while and Really just explore what I want to Explore yeah because I feel like if I Want it I'll find it I just am an Extrovert so every time I've ever had a Hobby that nobody else wanted to do I Just went to a place where people did it And I made friends so like if I ever Want to find people to think about this Or I want to talk to somebody Let's go find it you know Right Yeah and now like I said I mean There's like that Meetup app or Whatever you can just hey I'm doing this Or hey I'm thinking about this book a Lot lately and it sucks rattling around In my head anybody else want to talk About it and make a little group and Meet up with people Yeah I've been uh really scared so I got A corporate job already And um I know I just have to eat dude Sadly But I was very scared of because my parents Work a lot like they have a very Calvinist Protestant view of work like Hard work like as a virtue and it's just [00:59:43] Jacob: Something that they are completely willing to spend a lot of time and Effort in doing which is like labor is An actualizing Force Right that's like inherently of value to Them and it's just not a value to me Like making because I just have a very Different view of the system that is in Place I mean the job I'm going to do is Fundamentally meaningless there's no Reason it needs to occur the only reason It exists in society is so Like a number can go up like line go up That's it that's why it's there it's Just to make somebody money so there's Nothing inherently freeing about that in Fact I would like to do Enough to make more money eventually but I don't want to sell my time to that and The prospect of selling my conscious Finite alive time to something that is So fundamentally meaningless it was like Really uh it's really disconcerting I Guess but I've kind of shifted away from That amount of nihilism because it's Just something that needs to occur and I Found that I can find actualization Outside of that So yeah you don't have to be such a Slave to it doesn't inherently mean Like even if you are working a lot of [01:00:44] Jacob: Hours it doesn't it doesn't mean that Everything else has to back burner but You do have to watch it if it does start To happen Hello because it's like just American Culture to overwork we just are Inherently overworked so it's Hammer Works right you just get steeped in Working too much yeah I'm really gonna Try to fight that I found Um in his it gets kind of difficult to Wrestle with because I would find Um the jobs I'm working on like it has To have some sort of meaning for me Um and it like it's you know Inherently selfish but um like working At UPS for example like I told you That before like it's just something about it that just felt so off like Every day I felt like I was um like Disobeying Something truer in myself and it's Like and it's interesting because I Feel like there is the side of me You know the like the side that I've Built up of like dude that's maybe That's your default but you've got to be Positive and look you are helping these People and you're you know you're good At your job and you're friendly to your Co-workers and you make people's job not [01:01:49] Jacob: Shitty and um you know you do a good job And you should have pride in that there's like all these things that like I could kind of add to it but that's That was like it's like this extra work And I was forcing it there was no Natural like yeah this job this I have Meaning I give people their packages you Know what I mean like there's nothing that I could find from that and It was very um very draining and it made It when I would get off work when I Wasn't working like Um Unfortunately it wouldn't like fuel me Up like okay now that I'm off work now I Could really work you know it felt like It was more Um I don't know it's difficult to line up Like purpose meaning a sense of Fulfillment you know when you when you Come to these conclusions about the Capitalistic world and then still like Try to have an actual sense of meaning While working within it Yeah well it's just like inherently Meaningless It is like the a lot of reason the jobs Happen and haven't been automated is Just so people can have something to do To make money that's it because Capitalism is predicated on the fact [01:02:52] Jacob: That you have to give money to people That aren't Rich so they can buy your Product So like so much stuff is just in so many People's jobs are abstractly and in Reality don't need to occur and it is Impossible to escape that feeling Hmm I mean it so It's just not great all-around not a Good time and it's a very Justified Feeling that you had too it's something That you really can't you already you Like cats out of the bag you already Understand that right so the moment You're trying to like abstract yourself Around it you are I can't lie to myself like I can't trick Myself into stuff I know other people Can totally fine but I just can't do it So yeah Yeah it's the uh Jordan Peterson has Actually talked about that like Um pretty elegantly you can Like if you want to know what truth Is like you know what truth is like it Doesn't matter what we're saying out Here you're like if you say something Untrue out here only you like you know That it's untrue within here and there's Like there's repercussions in your Interior mind because of that Yeah it's just like living in Discordance with whatever your insides Feel which sometimes that just requires [01:04:08] Jacob: A perspective shift and I actually think That uh truth is relative to some degree Based on whatever like ideological lens That you've been steeped in but there is That feeling of even if it's technically Only true relative to you living not in Accordance to it's definitely Detrimental Um Well man well we've painted Ourselves into a depressing corner of Philosophical thoughts here Um what uh What else do you have written down there That you'd like to mention my friend oh I mean actually so Was uh there was a man named um Max Weber he wrote a book called uh Capitalism in the Protestant ethic so it Actually refers to kind of what I was Just talking about which is something That you can see just inherently Throughout Society So Hard work Is A virtue In uh Calvinism or modern Christianity Protestantism and it really propelled Capitalism for how it was like all of The really hard hours and general abuse That occurred was done on the backs of The fact that the uh religious and [01:05:30] Spencer: Hegemonic belief system relied on the Fact that hard work is something that is implicit And really good Just with out of context it's just A thing that's good no matter what You're working hard for it in itself is A good thing to do interesting But Uh post-modern capitalism what we're Experiencing now uh really relies on uh Western Buddhism It requires you to distance yourself From the innovate meaninglessness of the Labor that's happening and this is a It's just like how I said this eats Everything it's even eating Taoist Religion so you see a lot of Corporations and uh Like hustle grinds and influencers Really into a really distorted not super True version of Buddhism [01:06:22] Jacob: Yeah Okay yeah keep going I actually Yeah you see I'm saying so it fulfills The same role that Calvinism did in the Industrial Age where hard work was Inherent now we have such a Psychologically grinding Um Condition that is attributed to work That there is no way that you could Escape the fundamental meaninglessness Of this without engaging in a Eastern Philosophy that allows you to Disassociate from it radical acceptance Yeah because it just makes it easier Yeah you can get through the day you're You're like draining children of Adrenochrome but you're like Like really though so why do you think The Nazis used Buddhist iconography So distant they had to find a way to Distance themselves and the soldiers That were engaging in abject Horrors to Distance themselves from doing these Things and uh I heard a quote and it's Good men will do good things and bad men Will do bad things and religion will Make good men do bad things Because it's an ideological framework in Which that you now are allowed to do Necessarily whatever you want because You And that's and this is not a judgment on Buddhism in any way in fact I think it's Rather quaint and beautiful in a ideal Form it's just more of an observation of [01:07:52] Spencer: How things are yeah we are we are taking Little bits and pieces it's again Capitalism eating everything it's taking Little bits and pieces like yeah this Kind of makes sense here and inserts it Into where it loses its Essence but it Does kind of work within the bigger you Know pulsivity of the system and then it Also Um lends to the pacification too so if We if Google can make your material Conditions immediately really Comfortable like hey here's a meditation Course do you want a soda you know well We're going to work you 80 hours but We're going to teach you how to disassociate from that and then you're Going to feel comfortable like a frog Boiling in water and you're never going To unionize Yeah so it's like a pacification Technique So and that's uh the thinkers that I've Been listening to and reading have Really criticized ideology which just on Its own because it's like The Unbroken Hammer it's the working hammer and it Acts as like glasses like a distortion Glasses where you cannot see anything For what it really is because you were Steeped in ideology How many more years do you think we have Of this like realistically like do You think we even have a hundred years [01:09:07] Jacob: I don't really think about it I'm just Not having kids and I'm gonna enjoy my Life regardless of this I still actually Have mostly almost exclusively good days And For the little things but I have kids And just raise a little Warlord No I'm not down for that Max at a Young age yeah hopefully that ax breaks And then he can get out of ideology but Unlikely yeah in the same boat it's hard To uh It's hard to fantasize Or hard to like Oh I hope that's gonna be all okay in a Sense the problem is so if we can learn Anything from the Russian Revolution which is The only attempt to break free from Global Capital like the entire Universal Market system Is that revolutions don't work Because they create a power vacuum and It's just not the way to apply a more Egalitarian system because we got Stalinism out of that and that was Really bad So but the contrary to that is because Global Capital which is the entire Ingrained market system of the world is Reliant on everything else and you need To participate to be a nation in it if Any Nation tries to Not do that or reorgan make a new base Right for that base super sure funnel [01:10:29] Jacob: They try to make a new base uh they will Be uh invaded usurped or excluded from all Commerce So because everything is so interlinked It is impossible to break necessarily Unless it is like a total everybody that Isn't the top three percent decides that We're not going to do it anymore like a Worldwide general strike which is not Going to happen which I do think is Potentially possible [01:10:53] Spencer: But the problem is that hyperreal Condition where Everybody kind of has like this weird Sense of reality and it's really Temporally distorted and nothing Necessarily means anything it's just Self-referential we can't really Conclude anything nobody can get on the Same page about the systems of Oppression that are occurring and it's Very easy to propagandize to people so Eating consensus to decide collectively That this shit's not that good is uh Very hard [01:11:23] Jacob: Yeah and until then we kind of just Treat the treat the it's just symptom Management you know there's like these Little things that pop up like hey this Isn't right and then we've over focus on That but it's uh they're really just you Know problems from the bigger system Yeah this is really depressing I Actually haven't really said all of this Out loud in one stream of Consciousness But I'm actually so sorry no dude I'm Not coming to it with much like um Optimism or um like any sort of like I Don't know Justice position or There's nothing there's nothing coming From my end that's like super optimistic On this particular day myself so yeah But I just mean just in general like if Anyone's listening to this like hey if It's nice out that's awesome you'll like Throw a frisbee like a lot of shit's Still great like you can still have a Good day regardless of this and you had Many good days your entire life and it Was this way Yeah I'm just like any listeners that Were planning on having children anytime Soon and probably bummed the **** out But um I mean that's kind of how it goes I was thinking about that actually you know with this podcast [01:12:27] Spencer: Like the routes of it started With like this like most vulnerable Show my heart to everybody and like you Know so vulnerable crying on the podcast Like here's what I'm going through and Then it's like uh well I'm gonna get Better and then it's like um what's Personal development what's self-help And then it's like started going into What self and then well so that opens up Philosophy well what are humans what's Got like it just start expanding you Know so it's just kind of Inherently where the podcast naturally Leads and you know starting talking About like real Philosophy from our Level of perception Um not just all sunshine and rainbows And all like positive because I Actually had a I had a couple people who Would like refer to me as like the Positivity guy okay everything to do so Positive and I'm like what are you are You like what are you listening to Because I'm not I'm not always um I don't know I like to inherently I Like to be optimistic when I can but I think when it comes to philosophical Discussions like Philosophy gets in the goddamn way of Having actual conversations sometimes Yeah with optimism does I mean well and It doesn't help that the function of any [01:13:40] Jacob: Actual philosopher is to [01:13:43] Spencer: Criticize hegemonic systems which is Inherently uh sad degrading because it's Like hey here's how things are Well maybe they shouldn't be you know Especially uh modern philosophers I mean Obviously the first a thousand years of Philosophy was more like hey what's Existence you know and that's not really Sad that's kind of just interesting but The further we get especially in like Modern philosophy it is mostly just a Criticism of Power structures So which is like uh sad it's in it Becomes hard mentally sometimes Just because you learn all this **** About all these systems then you realize That you're just like in them you know It's not like this abstract thing it's Like oh I'm like I'm in it sick like I'm Living in it so yeah you wake up From the Matrix and you're like ah I'm Gonna step out and then you're like well It's completely impossible like Everything I am and how I make all my Movements are within that so like you Gotta **** kind of put your head back Down that is kind of how it is you're Like oh I'm enlightened I know Everything I discovered that we're in These systems and I could see what other People don't see and then you're like [01:14:53] Spencer: Well to make any actual difference it's Going to take 10 years of me working Hard within the system to like it's A it's a hilarious Cosmic joke in a Sense yeah and it's like inherently Quarter to write just because you uh Like whatever wake up I don't know Whatever cheesy what you want to say it But uh you still have to engage in all of the Systems to be alive Like you gotta like eat stuff you know So I mean that's a funny thing and That's how um the Buddha still farts I apologize I'm getting over a sinus Infection so Congested as long as I can't contract it Through Zoom yeah but just kidding I Don't look at humans like they're germs That's like something I definitely like Anytime anybody coughs now or Snee like Anything I go out of my way to say bless You and stuff just because I feel like Covet left this like you're your Disease I don't want to be near you when Someone sneezes so I'm always like hey No we're humans we love each other [01:15:55] Jacob: Yeah it's funny because like more Inherently all gross like everybody's Got a butthole like it's like we're Gross like beings are dirty and that's Totally fine and uh I thought about This yesterday because I just saw this Reddit video It was just this guy and he was Definitely inebriated in some way and he Just like slowly started to vomit in a Public space like really trying to Contain it I was like I'm really disgusted by this but it's Like a just like a guy you know this Happened to everybody I don't know why I've vomited many times but I'm so Disgusted by this happening like this Guy vomiting is grosser than me vomiting It's not this is funny it is funny when Other people do something it's so I Mean even us think about how Strange we are my spit in my mouth right Now like whatever but like if I were to Spit into a cup and then you say drink Your own spit now I would be like what No way that's disgusting like we're so Weird the way that we kind of I don't Know if it's just like our understanding Of germs or understanding of um I don't know if it's a social thing like [01:17:03] Jacob: Maybe that's a deeper social thing not Being able to drink our own spit Yeah well I actually just think a lot of A lot of stuff like disgust in general And you can see this because fetishes Exist that are like actually not clean Uh is learned behavior like most stuff Is learned behavior and culturally given Learn well okay but what about have you Seen um uh on like your mom's house Podcast with Tom Segura and Christina P Um they have like people with Fetishes on like on their podcast and They'll show the videos there's this one Guy that was I mean that's his thing he Was in like a **** tank like a super Scatter some nuts dude yeah have you Seen that like he's literally just rubbing himself in human feces and stuff And that's like what he gets off on and Like how do you like how is that a Learned behavior you know like what how Do you learn that of whatever you are Observing it's not like he like his dad Did that when he was younger and he just Really loves his dad you know what I Mean So Lacon is a predecessor to Freud or a Successor rather And uh he talks about uh transference of [01:18:12] Jacob: Attributes to items in modernity like oh So let's say you somehow have a like you Get to the point where you have a fetish So now you now you like women's shoes Like those are those are attractive so It's like you have this attribute Transfer to a thing that is technically An object but it mentally to you holds These attributes So human desire is really interesting it Could be like oh I love asses oh I love Buttholes oh I love poop yeah now poop On my chest I'll give you eighty dollars You know Oh no I mean it's the amount of people That probably are really into that is Probably way higher than we think Well the internet has allowed you to Pursue more and more emulation for Better for worse which I'm like totally Down for because like everybody just Like being more sexually open is like Cool because we're just more accepting Of stuff yeah but there is a negative to That which is uh people pooping on each Other that's the one I don't kink chain but Like if I'm gonna shame one cake like Please no poopy yeah it just seems you Know it's just I mean as far as the word Unsanitary goes it seems like a moderate [01:19:21] Jacob: Good definition of it Yeah I uh my stepdad has a story about One of his friends who thought he had a Scat fetish Uh and then got some girl like willingly Didn't pay her who agreed to poop on his Chest and then the moment it touched his Uh oh it was his mouth the moment it Touched his tongue he realized he didn't Have a scat fetish and that's uh that's Hilarious to me like if that's like the Worst point of no return right you Couldn't have figured that out like 40 Minutes ago you know I mean I guess if You're really that like there's really Only way one way to know I you know Don't knock it till you try it but not At least try it he can knock it you know Yeah that's the one the only one I'm Like nah I'm good Oh like I'll try anything but not that Yeah I'm in the same boat like I'm not like immediately against Something but I guess I am immediately Against that like I don't think there's Any world where like no matter how much I love this person like if that's what They're into I just don't know that I'm Gonna do anything but it I don't even know if [01:20:25] Jacob: I want to endure it for them you know Because okay Even maybe In like the Heat of the Moment you let That happen there's like a five seconds So you know it's like um it's like after You finish right there's like some Clarity okay you get done even if you Like it you just have **** on you like Somebody just pooped on you and I gotta Clean it up somebody actually pooped on Your chest and now you got to deal with It for probably a while yeah that's how Comfortable like what do you like you Got **** on your chest in your bed like You can't just stand up and go to the Bathroom oh you got to put a tarp down I Know you're doing like an inflatable Bathtub or something you got this is a Garage activity you gotta set this whole Thing up in there uh as the great Philosopher Lil Wayne would say as soon As I come I come to my senses What else has been on your mind lately Spencer is that pretty much Where you're at like what have you been finding yourself studying you said You've been kind of like leaning into things that just you just you enjoy how You've been letting the um the wonderful [01:21:30] Jacob: Overlords of algorithms on YouTube Overtake your choices and just explore What's on there have you been reading Anything that's jumping at you actually No so I've been reading simulator Lockerman simulation by Jean Polo guard And then Um the whole paper that I wrote actually Sent me on this weird goose chase to Figure out how all these ideas are Connected because a big part of modern Philosophy is the fact that it's kind of Referential on a bunch of other stuff That's already happened like If you go read like slavoyag's uh Sublime object of ideology there's like In the first six paragraphs there's like Seven references to a bunch of other Thinkers that have full long books and Thoughts so it's like Okay I can't even get to this I need to Go I need to go back further figure out Where it came from so I've kind of just Been working backwards whenever I find Somebody I figure out where they are Where they got inspired Yeah because they'll maybe say it and Then I will go figure out how that Informs their world view and then it Deepens my understanding for what They're saying it is philosophy is very Much the standing on shoulders of giants Sort of thing like every time I think [01:22:39] Jacob: That I have kind of an original idea I Think there's somebody who has thought About it so much long ago and they've Thought about it and then like all of Their predecessors have thought about it And written about it and yeah it's It's strange to think that you'd have an Original idea in philosophy nowadays I Pretty much relented to even being smart In general like it's just like not a Thing that I am and it's mostly just Because of well I'm sure some actual Genuine attributes of just like not Being brilliant you know just like a Regular guy one two these people are Like doctorates and they've spent Literally their entire lives reading all Of this like a real and enough to have Their own thoughts synthesis and maybe Even ideas to reference on their own So Just comprehending that is now enough Even comprehending it a little bit is What I've accepted you know like Anything that would change my world view But I would think is good no matter what My level of total comprehension is Compared to them like I just have Relented to never I'll never be as smart Or understand as well as they do that's Totally fine thankfully they wrote stuff Down do you have any sort of [01:23:51] Jacob: I don't know how true it is in my brain But I do have this thing in the back and Maybe I just like keep the candle Burning because it somehow motivates me Or it's some sort of like here's why I'm Spending so much time doing this and it Makes it okay do you have any sort of um Thoughts about like you know what in the Future 10 20 15 30 years from now I'm gonna Write something or have discussions With people that are that are worthwhile In the in the philosophy world like Again it's you know self-important so we All but there is still sort of some sort Of like self-belief of Um that I almost find myself A lot of it is to justify why I'm Spending so much time in philosophical Thought Because it's like well why don't I like You know work on my finances like why Don't I get some more gigs like why Don't I like try to get a girlfriend why Don't I work on getting a dog like of All these things that I could be doing Um that could like bring my life Fulfillment Like why am I studying philosophy a lot Of times I find myself like thinking Okay you know what maybe I'll just have [01:24:51] Jacob: To even if it's not true I'm gonna put This thing out that it's going to be Helpful later in my life or like it'll Make sense or I don't know do you have Anything like that or is it more of just I try to just be where I'm at and study Philosophy and I don't care like what it Assumes to I don't know so I have been Plugged and characterized by having Lofty ideals for what I want to do in General like I'm gonna do a lot of Things I'll say it because it's like a Really fun idea to play with right like I'm gonna write something someday I'm Gonna create something I'm gonna do x no Matter how big or how small it is But uh it rarely ever happens you know It's just I think this is kind of a Human thing but I genuinely don't really Try to assign any inherent value or Meaning to any of it monetarily because It's just the exploratory process in General I just I'm curious and I like it It's really stimulating it's something That I enjoy a lot and the feeling when You finally hear something that is just Like shattering is just like oh Oh my Micah like it's just like having [01:25:57] Spencer: Your eyes refreshed all the time it's Just really on its own Devoid of outside influence something That I just like that's it that's just How I am people like other stuff that's [01:26:07] Jacob: Cool no that's good I it actually Reminds me uh I saw this Tick Tock that Was talking about uh it was like a gen Z Like an older gen Z person or something And he was like um if you if you call my Hobbies a side hustle I'm gonna punch You in the throat or something like that he's like absolutely side hustle is Something that late stage Millennials Made up to justify their time and Everything what they're doing it was a Funny joke but it kind of hit me I'm Like oh God here I am trying to like Justify all the time like here I'm Spending my time on this and it's not to Enjoy life it's so it has this bigger Goal and it's like I'm like Sometimes even that so That's the hammer breaking right so That's you've been implicitly told by The ideology of society and the implicit Structures that um the market system Creates to my time equals value which is Not true time does not equal money time Is time is a finite resource and Whatever you want to do with that does Not need a price tag on it like it Actually it being devoid of money is Really enriching on its own so it almost [01:27:10] Jacob: It's so it's like a degrading thought to Think that I would need to assign A monetary value that I am losing to Something that I like I just enjoy you Know I think it ruins it and it makes it Hard I'm sure you can like Um or lay this or you feel this way as Well yeah like If I thought yesterday I spent four Hours playing Total War Warhammer 2 and Listening to slavoy's gizek I lost four hundred dollars that sucks But it was a really fun thing to do I Really liked it but if I assigned money To it makes it like uh meaningless I Feel bad I feel guilty for it I just Don't do that just try my best to never Do that yes I could technically be more Productive but what is I mean is Productivity even the value I am trying To attain Yeah it's like an over focus on your Your legacy is like this um like Self-help entrepreneur like Um kind of like weird sickness of like What like what are you gonna get there Bud like you're gonna arrive you know You're gonna happen where's the Destination though you know I mean the Self-help industry has been co-opted by People that are just trying to [01:28:22] Jacob: Uh make more money so like it's so much Of that Buddhist thought that's Actually so pure and beautiful and Untainted has just been like here's how You can have mental Wellness to grind Harder babies that's Sigma Grant said I Wake up at 3am and I Edge for punishment And then I meditate for eight hours and Then I Edge For Pleasure send six emails I mean all right we're not the same I Have been stuck in this uh so I so I Will say I've actually been a fan of Like the self-help self like I mean Since I was a teen I think just Just my life of kind of this oh **** There's no but there's no adults like Taking care of you got to figure out How to do **** like at a young age kind Of made me like really obsessed with a Lot of the self-development self-help Stuff but self-help books I remember When it was just like such a small Section in the library Um and now it's like the you know the Front book section over Fantasy A lot of The times is like the self-development Sort of thing so it's been cool It's been very helpful in so many ways But I also having been part of that [01:29:25] Jacob: Scene for so many years and like you Know I've read all the you know Most like the popular books in the Self-help world it's um Definitely not all Um but I've read every self-help Book I have yes Oh God sometimes I say the stupidest **** and I'm like you're so full of Yourself like listening backwards too oh God but it's uh I do see how it's How It changed and how we could be a slave To it and I also really love you know The um like the backwards a lot of the Alan Watts would say like if you If you um are someone who needs these Self-help books you're kind of reciprocating the problem you're kind of Telling yourself that you're in lack of You know and there's kind of this Balance of accepting who you are wanting To get better and learn new things And stuff and a lot of times self-development books in the self-help World is kind of like that route and That's amazing but there almost comes a Time where it's like you know quit Reading the books and go try it out and Yeah well there's also that feeling so I [01:30:26] Spencer: Keep talking about like hegemonic Ideologies maybe the ideal that you are Trying to be well to is uh fictitious You know like you have an ideal that you Are trying to achieve and you've been Conditioned by Society Aid to think that You currently are not meeting that which Is why all of them are centered around Productivity because that is that's What's prized is you make the line [01:30:51] Jacob: Go up so you feel the void of something That is not inherently valuable or Necessarily good or part of you because Society's communicated that to you so Maybe that is not really what's broken And trying to fix that symptom is not Really going to fix it which makes sense Why people would just endlessly read Self-help books to be more productive But still sad you know Yeah I mean it just I see where it like Reifies you know old stories too where Where like even just like me reading A new self-help book like and re Revivifying the story of oh I'm Jake Who had to learn it on his own and It's just like it's sometimes it's Stopping you from being who you really Are today and it's just kind of like Rewriting you into just the next chapter Of the story you made up about yourself And your life well and we can even go Back to how the Nazis used Eastern Symbology and thoughts to disassociate From Um like horrible atrocities so just Because you figure out or To engage with any of these ideas Doesn't inherently make you a good Person that has good ethics values and Moral systems it's just somebody who Figured out how to disassociate like be [01:32:03] Jacob: Mindful that doesn't inherently make you Any better per se and it's still a Good thing to pursue but everybody's Seen there's like a lot of signaling That goes on the internet with this as Well the person that all of a sudden is Enlightened on your feed but it's like Subtly the worst person you've ever You've ever met in real life You know so it's like you're kind of Fictitiously telling yourself like oh You know I read X book I'm so much Better and then it's an excuse to just Engage in all the behavior you once did So there's like no one real ticket to Getting better or like being better that It can just be found in like a book I do Think that one Watts the books are very Beautiful though he was like a really Pure thinker well I mean I think like The core of like we both read wisdom of Insecurity and I think that like if There could be a book that's kind of Like the book like the Um seeing through the illusion of the Self is really kind of like the core of The whole thing it's kind of the core of Um I don't know even just so prolific I Heard somebody say recently like the [01:33:07] Jacob: Sign of just like a potent and really Good educator is somebody that can say Something in a way That coalets is a bunch of stuff you Already implicitly understood In a new way that you could have never Synthesized and reading that book is Just like I know this I already know What it is I can feel this is how I feel In words that are just like beautifully Poetic the prose is perfect it's paced Incredibly and it's just exactly just The modern condition in like a very Interesting way and that's why I just Think that he touches a lot of people Because of that feeling Yeah I mean I that's exactly what it Is it's not you're not learning Something new you're You're remembering and you're also Unlearning through that remembering and It's this weird thing that and it's also On I mean it's on a spiritual level Um yeah I know that word is just so Sticky but it's on a spiritual level Because it Um it It shows you what you really are as it Reminds you of what you're not and shows You kind of Where you were thinking incorrectly like Like where you where your Understanding of yourself is getting in The way of like it's making you suffer Essentially [01:34:27] Jacob: Yeah it's a I don't know I still come back to a lot Of Alan Watts he's still I mean probably One of my favorite philosophers I still Consistently listen to a lot of his Lectures um Sam Harris on his Waking Up app Actually just added like 17 lectures Um from the backlog of Alan Watts Um and I've heard most of them before But it's so nice to just have that at my Fingertips all the time I'm just really glad that he was alive Right at the time in which that audio Recording became pretty good because It's not only What he says and writes it's just the Way that he speaks like the whole Presentation and package really just Like adds to everything he was just Great just really prolific dude it Really makes me want to teach with a Chalkboard like I just want to teach People while I have a chalkboard with me Because there's so many of them you can See like if you see any videos he's you Know he's drawing simple things little Stick figures or a little feather a Little bird or whatever to like kind of Um you know hold space for his points And those little visualizations probably Help the crowd you know understand [01:35:30] Jacob: Things a lot really well and then you Can kind of hear the chalk hitting the Hitting the board and a lot of the audio Lectures and just makes me want to uh Write things with chalk or a whiteboard So I think romdas actually does really Well I spent a lot of time listening to Ramdas too like kind of um he is he is More on the spiritual like he would Say you know he teaches the path of Love Um and then he famously followed a guru Up but he his talks are kind of the Same thing and uh or gangaji if You've ever heard of her they're Like it's literally just a remembering Like the crowd is So Silent the crowd is Listening the crowd isn't really like Intellectualizing or like well how does That work and how does that work it's It's this just listening and like Feeling what they're telling you about The human condition and it unwinds all The questions that you thought you had And so it's a it's a reminding Rather than a New information so it's almost something Like we know inherently in our psyche as As humans it's just part of being a soul Vessel we're being reminded of by this Like not self [01:36:33] Jacob: Features that we hear from these people Yeah it's um I feel really interesting About that feeling because I'm just not An essentialist Like um what do you mean essentialism Would be like there is a metaphysical It's kind of what uh I think that young Thought this there's like a metaphysical Essence to a man or a woman or ex thing That is like ethereal and like true and Un unbending it's you can see a lot of like Neo-spiritual movements especially in The west like Aubry Marcus will use a Lot of language that's essentialist like Um it honestly operates on like a binary a Lot so like Men are older women or chaos stuff like That I just don't think that is Fundamentally true but it's always Interesting to listen to people who say Stuff and you feel it right like you Feel like this is inherent to The Human Condition which affronts um Essentialist which is kind of an Essential thought in a way so it's just Always interesting for me to um engage With stuff like that because it's like Impactful and I can't really figure out Why right yeah but it but it is difficult of Of the words don't quite do it and there [01:37:44] Jacob: Is like a lot of ways that you can kind Of dispute the words it's like well like What you're saying doesn't really make Sense but I do kind of get what you mean Is a lot of where that area goes you You were talking about I had sent you The other day um clips from Rebel or a [01:37:57] Spencer: Video from Rebel Wisdom weren't you [01:37:59] Jacob: Saying something about like you were recently thinking about their um Their Channel what was that for was that Yeah so I have been trying to figure out So in the in America There is a like Christian fundamentalism Just kind of lies at the base of a lot Of things and structures that we believe Whether you are a Christian or not it is Just like Max Weber and the Protestant Ethic right it's just like ingrained in The way that we have Society like you're Steeped in the ideology And in movements or people that usually Detract from social movements uh trans Rights stuff like that Um just a Left-leaning uh workers movements They all are really disparate so like Jordan Peterson is a Um he's just like a Christian Conservative so he detracts from that And he has a lot of essentialist thought Aubry Marcus has some detracting from That and he's part of the Neo spiritual Movement and I just found that in a lot of these People like in maybe an IDW there's just I was trying to figure out a through Line because they seem very disparate in Their total thought process but they all Kind of coalesce to fight against a lot Of this stuff and I determined that [01:39:19] Jacob: It's just a centralist thought to some Degree so it's like there's a real Metaphysical Essence to Gender or Um Humanity in general like it's on a Materialist thought like we have a soul There's a specific Essence to all things And it rely it's on like an astral realm It's like the young Ian ID or the Freudian idea of that And uh I wanted to know about their Channel because when I engage with them Maybe years ago I thought that they uh were the most Reasonable of the rationals the Skeptics Because there's a lot of skeptic thought That is kind of just like **** heady on YouTube well you're just gonna get it But they just seemed So coherent yet I disagreed with them in So many ways so I was just intrigued More than anything [01:40:04] Spencer: Yeah the uh David Fuller used to work For like one of the major news networks He's like one of the main guys of the Channel uh yeah you work for BBC I'm Pretty sure I looked it up after we Talked yeah and so he's very Logical and he's I think he's um as far As you know journalistic Integrity goes Or even just Um kind of like uh you know just for Lack of a better term like the essence Of what a journalist should be I feel Like he kind of like it's a thing of Importance to him he doesn't get caught Up by all like the all this stuff that Comes with being a journalist or like a News reporter nowadays this just seems To really miss the point and it seems to [01:40:40] Jacob: You know like you said be captured by Capitalism just too much to actually be An Arbiter of Truth or real useful Information it's just so painted with Bias so I just feel like um Yeah I have liked a lot of his stuff Like I was saying I you know the last I Don't know with a lot of like the You know Um pandemic stuff and a lot of like the Ukraine stuff I just I didn't really I Didn't I didn't like their opinions very Very much I don't know I just I feel Like they kind of got caught and caught In the web of things You have a very interesting perspective On a lot of this too because I've just Found that you just like don't like Um I don't like conflict very much in these In these spaces like a non-uh agreeance And solution based response so is that Is that what's occurring here Yeah probably I mean I naturally do Not like conflict just as my person I actually avoid conflict which is Actually like a detriment to my um Personality and relationships sometimes But I to me I'm just about Solutions and I know that Sounds like douchey but it's like when There's a problem if it's a real problem [01:41:49] Jacob: Let's not stroke each other feeling good About pointing out the problem like Let's talk about a solution what's next And I don't know uh it seems like a Waste of time a lot of times to get Caught up too into the weeds and like Well you're I don't know And I think to some degree it is uh The political climate of Modernity is um It's hard because opposing uh factions Fundamentally have different values and See the world differently enough to Where it would be uh I think impossible To actually Have one have a solution because just The value structure and the way the Thought is produced is just not close Enough Yeah you'd have to have a same end goal Yeah and it's just like the fundamental Aims and goals of many disparate Factions are different enough and a lot Of these a lot of times propaganda Stoking the fire of all of this or just Causing friction because they don't want You to look at something else But um I think the consensus is not a thing That happens anymore but I will say I Think a lot of my perspective This sounds so cheesy I think a lot of My perspective comes from like This like the answer is love sort of [01:43:07] Jacob: Thing like at the core of whatever You're fighting about cool at the core Whatever arguing about cool but like What is a human what's Humanity Like what do we need to get Together what's actually important like Like not through the labels not through The menu of like bullet points of Things that are important Um you know even Beyond like our Hierarchy of needs Um or maybe even like not far removed From it like the answer I don't know like I understand that I'm like very far detached from like we Do have to solve the problem so it does Have to be discussion there does have to Be like boots on the ground like this we Can't just all decide to sit on the Ground crisscross applesauce and it's All solved I get that but uh I don't Know a lot of times the things to me I Don't even become involved with them When I see other thing other People arguing about specifics I'm just like I don't think anything That you're talking about or any of the Ways in which you're talking about have Anything to do with like the overall Goal of what Humanity should be thinking About which is you know the same like uh You know a b is collecting honey [01:44:10] Jacob: For the hive you know like we have Some sort of humanitarian there's some Sort of something that brings us all Together and we have some sort of One Direction we should be going let's say That's love If you're talking about things that Aren't pointing in the direction of that Then it's just almost pointless to me So yeah I think that feels really good But Like a lot of nuanced stuff to occur and A lot of factions are inherently Exclusionary Where it's like people that I mean just any racism that would ever Occur uh anybody that thinks anybody That lives outside of the country is any Less of a person deserving of actual Like actualization and love is uh it's For art right and there are real Factions that believe that so that is Inherently a philosophy and ideological Thought process that is not grounded Upon love itself so the only way to Fight that would be to deter from it Right so like conflict is even if that's Your goal it is just going to be a need To The Human Experience and I know it Feels like **** I don't want to happen Either I think it's fundamentally Necessary Yeah I mean it's completely I completely Agree you can't have [01:45:20] Jacob: You can't just avoid conflict at all Times but a lot of times I think we're Throwing chairs at each other when we Could be talking absolutely I just think That Um there's some fundamental misunderstandings That are innate that really don't help That are also fueled by the media Process as well Like The blatant misuse of terminology by Your political opposition to Buddy the Ideological Waters so you don't actually Have to contend with their ideas Happens a lot like the misuse of words Like uh post-modernism like as a thought Process like that is blatantly misused All the time to detract or deter from Ever having to actually engage with any Of these ideas and uh D faces uh anybody That would try to talk about them in the Political sphere so not only are we Having fundamental differences between Factions or having a actual and Concerted effort to undermine uh the What signs and symbols mean and if we go [01:46:25] Spencer: Back to like what the hyperreal Setting that we're in they already are Completely muddied in general so like Fundamentally words have to mean stuff Because language is Clumsy but it's the Only tool we have But everything that is just occurring is It making a concerted effort whether It's implicit or explicit To have the symbols and signs not mean Anything yeah it is a pretty big deal like for You know for me to say snowflake Um and for us to be and I'm not even Talking about like the political what They would call like people snowflakes I'm saying like act like in a Blizzard snow a snowflake like you Picture when I say snowflake what Pops In your head like the little you know Dimensional whatever snowflake or an Actual just piece of snow like Regardless of the word we need to be Able to know the same thing as we're Saying the word to even be able to Communicate and like make sense of Um reality really and when we're At a point where I don't know if it's Just because of the internet or it's Like really sped up by the internet We're at a point where we're saying the Exact same words it's the same mouth Movements but it's not reciproc it's [01:47:30] Spencer: It's not You know proliferating or creating the Same image within our heads like we're Thinking something completely different You know when we say the same words and Some of these words are You know like they have a lot with Them they have you know when someone Like the words like racism and stuff you Know it's There's a lot that comes with it there's A lot of baggage that comes with it but It might not be the same meaning to Every single person who hears the word And it's definitely not and you can Actually see this so I talk to my Professor about this why uh Progressive Movements in general actually have a way Harder time uh on a rhetorical level Than conservative movements Because Progressive movements are Usually light on the back of a lot of Philosophical thought Theory and a Really intense academic literature that Requires a lot of explaining forward Thought in a really specific language And conservative movements are usually Really easy to understand and they Usually hearken back to times that have Already passed or Nostalgia as a tool or Really things that appease people that Feels innate to them like Stuff that would appeal to Common Sense Stuff that appeals to uh whatever the Hegemonic ideology is stuff that when [01:48:45] Spencer: You hear you don't question it because It sounds bright so if I like say well If we allow immigration people are going To take our jobs because more people Need jobs it's like fundamentally There's like a long economic process so Why that's actually not why we have a Problem but it sounds right yeah so the The problem with progress Is a you get caught explaining it's too Easy to divert in the longer and more Complex society goes on the harder and Harder it is to do that So it's hard to make progress on like I'm just a basic debate rhetorical level You just get caught explaining [01:49:21] Spencer: Yeah it gets always getting Caught you know far farther into the Weeds and less farther away from like The meaning because I gotta like so Let's see so if I will take racism for Example There is a sect of people that believe That uh Martin Luther King who has Become a defanged symbol of himself who Was actually a revolutionary thinker and Has become just like a symbol of like Peace and racism ended right black People can vote now racism is over People think that because all the laws Are the same it's really easy to Comprehend that it's a very easy to Position to take and it actually feels Good right that makes you feel good yeah Racism's over look we're all equal but The explaining the sociological Socioeconomic and philosophical Implications of like modern racism takes Like full courses So one of these things feels good easy To comprehend one of them feels like **** super hard to understand a lot of Nuance right so which one of these is Going to be the common idea the one That's easy and feels good it's just Like part of humanity because we just Have this thing called cognitive Miserliness where you evolve to survive And conserve energy and your brain takes [01:50:37] Jacob: Up 20 of the calories of your body every Day so if you can ever Outsource an idea this is just an Evolutionary process you can Outsource An idea and then stop thinking about it Just put in a box it is evolutionary Advantageous Thinking is counter to The Human Experience in a way I think blame Falls in that category too Like we want to find a person to blame Like who is who is at fault for this it Feels good to find like there they are Let's put it all this stuff that's Chaotic that hurts my arms to carry Because my arms are weak I just want to Put it on them and that's blame and it Kind of kind of Falls in that same category we just want that one thing Like it's this it's that's why Minorities are a good scapegoat for Movements that would use them because Instead of explaining the socio-economic Pressures of a neoliberal market Fundamentalism I can just say minorities Take your jobs You know like one of those super easy to Understand and it feels better I'm sure Because it's like uh people that don't Look like me their fault you know it's Not [01:51:41] Spencer: The whole hegemonic complex structure of Global capital and all of these small Implicit details of the ideology I've Been steeped in my entire life Actually brown people yeah that's that All that other stuff is a lot of work I Like that I like the easy feels good Solution So And people are rightfully mad about Stuff that's kind of the problem with Movements that would divert social Antagonism to minorities or any Protected class of people because it's Taking a really real feeling right Economic insecurity a lack of Actualization Society is obviously not Made for you to survive or thrive in you Just are a puppet to many things and you Don't have a lot of agency And so instead of taking that energy and Diverting it somewhere where it can Change you just divert towards Minorities And now you can stop minorities from Gaining progress in society which is Usually your political goal as well and You divert all the political antagonism Away from the Oil Barons You know It's easy it's easier to do so it's like Uh having consensus is hard because There's like a lot of Bad actors [01:52:51] Jacob: Yeah I mean I suppose It's just small in increments it's Just like One step forward two steps back sort of Stuff when it comes to like really Understanding it and somehow explaining It to people where it like makes sense To them and we could stop making the Same you know kind of mindless mistakes like The like the The way that we solve problems like Running it running it through the ways That have not been working and just Continually trying the same thing yeah I Think it'd be foolish just even think That anybody that is a part of any System that is in control including Billionaires actively even trying to Solve anything because the system is Obviously working as intended Right now I mean they make a lot of Money all the time they have all the Power like why would change actually why Would they want it to occur like this is Working as intended mm-hmm Well now we live in our deterministic Universe we live in a deterministic Economy Um okay well We're creeping up uh towards the Two-hour Mark here Spencer I do want to Let's just like crazy man I know like What have we what it just it just Happens so quick Um I was thinking like just to go meta [01:54:06] Jacob: On Like our conversations I mean like When we have these on the podcast like If they're inherently philosophical like We both enjoy studying philosophy Um you are actually an academic in Philosophy I'm just a turd who like Listens to audiobooks and YouTube Lectures and reads random **** and Thinks about stuff Um but like I don't know like what Thinking about like the future of I don't know I don't want to say like How can we make our conversations Helpful like because I'm kind of over This like I'm Gonna Save the World I mean I'm not like I kind of like There's a naive side of me that's like I Want to hold on to this at all times of Like I could save the world because I Like that delusional I like that Cockiness I like that self-importance Like sometimes it like fuels a Little bit of my artistic side and uh I don't know but I don't want to get too Caught up in it like how do we how Do we continue to have these Conversations and why should we continue To have these conversations and what are Some things we could be thinking about to discuss in the future I don't know what I've decided as my Goal because [01:55:09] Spencer: Into the face of everything I've just Said it seems like you're you don't have A lot of agency to do a lot of change Right um People talk about doing direct action a Lot and I think that's really that's Really good like if you have um You want to stand up for Trans rights or And just any anything like actual go Helping in a community is like a really Good thing to do any anything that you Want whatever your political leading is You want to go help with a church like They'll be active in your community That's great But I think because uh ideology is just So like effervescent and prevalent and We're all just so steep in it the best Thing that I could do if I ever have a Public square is to try to break the Hammer try to have somebody take the Glasses off take a step back maybe we Can look at the structures that are Making life really hard and maybe I make You think about it that's it I think That out of all the things that I could Do realistically that's not really that Materially helpful but Like just getting away from the way Things are mentally thinking about it That's what I'm going to try to [01:56:16] Jacob: Do I think that's like a pretty Small thing to want and um You could ever because I really love it When it's shattered right when you Finally get to take the glasses off just If anybody if I could ever get anybody To do that in any way make you say huh Maybe I really took this as an implicit Truth but It's just a social Constructor maybe Maybe it's not true maybe there's Another way maybe there's a better way Maybe we can look at this through a Different lens well I think that's a relatively noble Cause okay yeah fair and I do I feel like that Is kind of what we do in these Conversations it is kind of a I do Because maybe it's normal for us to come To these conclusions or maybe somewhere For us to like circle around these like Subjects but a lot of the people Listening perhaps have never even heard Of any of this stuff before and so They've never even thought about it they've never really like questioned Where they're at within it and uh it's Not to say like We're trying to be the Arbiters of Truth Or trying to be the ultimate Problem Solver but I think yeah if you have a [01:57:15] Jacob: Public Square do what you can in your Public Square like I'm nothing more than Exactly who the hell I am Yes yeah I guess just the attempt is Like You are taking you know like we were Talking about the beginning you're going Through your days and everything you see Is just like implicitly occurring you Find it to be true it's a thing that Exists It's unwavering it's a real concrete Object or idea But probably not all the systems and Structures that you ever engage with Were deliberately constructed they can Be revoked they're sulfur constructs and Honestly everything that you would deem A capital T true is lowercase true and They're relatively is another truth or Thing that could exist in the same space Just need to look a little further away Everything is was put there and can be Subject to change and if it is something That is causing you pain or any system That is detracting from your life It would be bad to look at it like a Concrete reality truth Even when we come to like edges of Nihilism it's so exciting to like That's the Like It's inherently exciting to discover and Learn these things like even though like Even there is a little bit of where like [01:58:39] Jacob: You know your ego or like your sense of Self is like whoa hey you're pushing Against me like I thought I was solid And now I don't feel very solid but it's Very interesting keep going it really is So exciting too like that's a like maybe It's almost like selfishly for me too I Really like doing this stuff I like Having these conversations because it's Like it makes me feel all tingly inside it's The unknown too right I mean there are People have certain propensities For stuff like some people just see Comfort they like the security I've Always just liked chaos and the unknown So just kind of like we flinging Yourself metaphysically through whatever Is going to be as deconstructive as Physically possible it's like super Titillating that's just like not for Everybody that's totally fine but I Don't know I like to do it Yeah I like the oh **** Maybe everything I know is for sure Wrong To being wrong I realized that I think That I'm wrong about determinism Something I talked about this earlier Something that I have like been fairly Certain on in myself for a while it was Cool like damn That's awesome because I just don't like The idea of [01:59:45] Jacob: Okay I found an idea I think is true and Then it's just like that's it right yeah It's the edge of that is always the fun Part it's not the finding it's Defining the next thing I love when You um like you learn of a Philosopher an author or like somebody Or an intellectual and like for a couple Years you almost believe everything they Say you're like dude that's exactly what I believe and then I love the part that Comes afterwards we start to like hear Them say things where you're like I Don't **** believe in that and then You start to cheat like actually I can Actually kind of think differently about that thing that I was really sturdy About when he said it three years ago I Think I'm finding that um a lot with Like Sam Harris like the first few years Of me discovering Sam Harris It was like everything he was saying I'm Like there's some truth in this and I Completely believe it and then he would I'm starting to like have my own idea And it's basically saying I'm Learning more and like kind of coming up With my own opinions that are like Negating what people that I thought were On the Forefront like on this pedestal [02:00:40] Jacob: Like I'm probably never gonna like Unthink anything like that it's so fun To like unwind something that you Believe so heavily for a little while Yeah so oh actually the whole IDW so Before I was political or did a lot of Thinking I really because they say a lot Of stuff that seems like common sense And they're pretty confident so it's Really easy to eat up right if you don't Have the pretext Or the out exterior thought around it I Went from generally agreeing with them Because they were agreeable and I didn't Really know a lot to I actively disagree With almost everything that they believe And say and it's um And it's fun because you go from like Steeped in it to all criticism and it's Like a fun Evolution it was like a Growth path and they changed too maybe You actually do agree with them or eight Years ago too like you go look at their old stuff You're like this is way more agreeable Well and it's I mean I think it's Like not believing all of what they say Or believing all of what they say is Just like you know nobody's really gonna Do that anyway Um I mean I guess I just said like at [02:01:41] Jacob: The beginning I was like eating up a lot Of it but um you know what I was Actually thinking about I was going to tell you this I think a lot of my like Love and Fascination for the IDW was Almost what they tried to represent like Almost because like I think Eric Weinstein was the ideal dude gave them The name which you know it instantly Like ruins it but it is like for me Again as a you know just living back to My story of this kid who like didn't Learn everything I Learned was like I Want to learn this because it wasn't Like it wasn't like oh I had to go it Was forced to go to class or whatever Like everything that I learned I'm Choosing to learn it and so for me to Feel like I stumbled across these like Intellectuals on YouTube that I could Like actually listen to and actually Learn something from and I mean really Just looking at the fact that there's Like sold out audiences to go watch Intellectuals speak on a stage wow That's so cool like what like what a Cool thing and like for me to like Notice from a meta perspective like what [02:02:37] Jacob: A cool thing for me to like get into and Like genuinely have interest in at like 26 27 years of age like I think this This seems really cool I really like Being a part of this whole thing where I'm one of the people in the audience Who's like huh listening and thinking About what like the real really smart Professors are saying and maybe It's a lot of I didn't go to school so I Didn't ever actually like see actual Professors teaching a class I never Actually got really any of that like Connection and so maybe it's like in Place of that like academic you know uh Thriving or like wanting of something Like that's kind of what IDW like filled For me that like you've now been Through school like you had a connection Real connection with one of your Teachers and I'm sure like you know it's Somewhere similar around what I was like Searching for yeah it's kind of cool and Honestly so I went through a phase where I definitely really enjoyed all of them Listen to all their stuff you know and [02:03:27] Spencer: Um I fundamentally disagree with myself Last year every year and I don't Discount and even if I objectively hate Everything that I thought five years ago I don't discount that it was important For me in the chain of thoughts to get To where I am now although yeah good Like Um usually Eric and Jordan Peterson Usually their whole thing is something That like I am really fundamentally Critical of now like I really honestly Detested in a lot of ways it was Fundamental for me to get to here in General like just the process of curiosity Was important So That was good yeah and the symbol of Them is cool too like the idea they Represent more than themselves is like Um being an Arbiter of logic or being an Arbiter of something that is being Unspoken right that inherently feels Good whether that's even happening or Not is it really not the point it's just Like it's like a young kid because I was a Very old that's probably like 1819 it Like feels cool yeah sounds good there There's something about right like Just like we were talking about the beginning there's something punk rock About it like there's something like About these guys you know in the you [02:04:40] Spencer: Know even like Sam Harris before like he Would call him and the other atheists Like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse Or some **** like that I actually love Sam Harris atheist pick he's very Anti-islam for some very probably less Than silly reasons but I still agree With him a lot in some ways he's so He's so mixed up in things that I just Don't understand a lot of the times he's Like so yeah he's lost in the sauce no [02:05:00] Jacob: Yeah but I will say man his app is Just getting better and better the Waking Up app like yeah to use that it's Great it's so good like he Continually adds more and more stuff to It he has some um you know some that are From it's like old advice but he has This woman read it who's like uh she's She's some level of enlightened for sure Um I forget her name I'm gonna forget your name but um she's Wonderful like her voice is wonderful so It's it sounds really nice they made the Recordings nice they have like some Music in the background she reads these Texts but you treat them like a Meditation so like you'd sit in the Morning or I'm gonna sit for 30 minutes Unmoving while I listen to like this Wonderful woman read this text and it's Um and kind of explaining like what you Are and what you are not and you know You know getting through the illusory Self in real time through these texts so Anyway it's very fun I'm Really liking where it's going I have a Lot of respect for Sam Harris in the app Yeah that's the best one and honestly Like even though I Sam Harris is less [02:06:03] Jacob: Egregious but even though you detract From somebody's whole political or Ideological worldview in some places That doesn't mean that other stuff they Do that is good isn't good Right like that app and all the Stuff that he does on it is objectively Awesome right you don't it's not Like a binary right like some stuff People do great I'm something not great It's like part of being a person Yep it's a it reminds me all the Time of any time I'm insecure about like I'll put out you know One Clip or like Here's one minute of my Conversation with Spencer here's one Minute of my conversation on like you Know the word God or the word spiritual Like I'll put that out there and I'm Like god dude like no someone is going To have like this is all they're gonna See of me this is all they're gonna know Of me and this is their whole opinion of Me and like sometimes overthink about That but I just mainly remember like oh That's literally just the way it is like That's up for them if they want to have That oh I know everything about This person because I saw this one clip Or if they don't want to accept other [02:07:02] Jacob: Things that they may like or dislike About a person then It's just it's interesting so I actually I faced this uh all the time in my own Life so I'm you I'm like about 225 Pounds like 11 to 10 about 12 body fat Like I look like a meathead most of the Time I just don't look like I would be Somebody that is reflective in any way You know kind of got like a douchey face I carry myself like in a way that Probably yeah absolutely no it's totally Fine it's actually really like to find This you're a beautiful man but Um it's a very funny to watch the Preconceived notion or the small little Interaction And uh how the temperaments changed and It's like oh you're just like a little goofball it's like a little weirdo They're suddenly disarmed when they're Like Jesus is this guy gonna throw me or Something yeah and then I'll inherently Act overly childish especially Um when I've got clients I'm a trainer Uh I've got clients that are like uh Middle-aged to 25 women just because It's like Like I'm safe like I'm uh totally I'm Just like just like your kid's best Friend you know yeah but it's a it's Interesting the difference between the [02:08:15] Jacob: Reality of how anyone is and uh your Perception of that and how that like Will affect your Personal Behavior decision being like Meta aware of that yeah I could Say I think uh me like being covered in Tattoos since like a fairly young age I've kind of experienced that like I Think it's unexpected sometimes when I'm Like kind of like a pretty nice Sweet cheery person a lot of the Times to strangers Um but it's not I love I love that It's that same moment I love Watching that like oh yeah like oh if You just leave room for this person to Be who they are in this moment you could You could see them for who they really Are and who you really are you know get Your preconceived ideas out of the way And just be with the person and you Can experience Um I mean who they really are right now Yeah I mean and I'm sure this is Actually a pain point for many other People like the being perceived not how You are but I've always found it to be Lovely that little moment's so fun you Could just like see it happen and just Like there's something fun about defining expectations and like a very uh [02:09:13] Jacob: Real way that's like uh handed and nice That I love it is that part of our um I know like my personal like an infj That's like an i there's something About me that likes being a mystery There's something that's like I know That's enticing like being a social Mystery like people not being able to Put their finger on like who I am and What I'm about sometimes is there do you Have any of that with your personality Type I forget Um I think that I just like to be seen As a I guess unique is such an annoying Word I'm language is failing to come to Me that encapsulates uh why I enjoy it But I just Think I like this I just like subverting Expectations and being a little chaotic In general just Throwing people off guard in like a very Interesting but not intimidating way and Just boiling people down to more of how They are and then we can have like a Really odd and fun and one-off Conversation and maybe there's like a Deeper understanding and I uh and I'm Sure some of it's for attention too you Know it's just like yeah it's somebody Like noticing anything about you or like Realizing you're not like a shallow [02:10:23] Jacob: **** how they would have thought is Like immediately gratifying and I could Never circumvent the fact that attention Feels good yeah but that's not really The whole of it you know yeah It's a it's a piece of the puzzle for Sure but it's really not like I Like I like breaking stuff I like You know I you know I like wearing Wearing all you know the shirt And tie but then you know you lift up The socks and you got yellow socks on Like that you know those little things Just kind of like breaking the thing Down a little bit like yeah well I just Like proving that all of this is silly In the first place right when we go to Rave Zone where pasties and mess T-shirts you know like just like the Most because I like look really Traditionally masculine most the time And just like the most eccentric and Oddly homoerotic clothing just to like Throw it off you know and I don't have Any uh traditionally gay mannerisms and I'm not gay so it's always just like It's just fun to play with it because It's just like a social construct I Don't know it's fun to subvert expectations I guess this is what I'll [02:11:23] Jacob: End it with you know yeah no I'm Completely with you I understand Entirely I think it's part of uh as part Of what fuels of us yeah exactly I Will still Puts on puts on denim vest uh under Eyeliner I haven't worn eyeliner in years Um all right cool man well that was Excellent sir yeah I appreciate Your time as always man thank you very Much I love that when we can make it Happen it's I know it's harder and Harder you know I mean living far away But if there's ever a world where we Could figure out you know like we had Mentioned some sort of Continuous thing with the two of us I Feel like we Conversations so now so with school I Was realistically working 35 hours a Week going to school for 30 hours a week I was getting home I was Waking Up at Like five getting home at eight so now I Only work 30 hours a week so I'm just Totally unencumbered I live like a Normal life so usually if you can make It happen I could probably make it happen too Well keep in mind I'll keep I'll keep Chugging along you know how I am about This about the podcast I have my I have [02:12:25] Jacob: My ups and downs with it but um I'm very Much enjoying it now I wanted to do a um I've contemplated doing I might edit This part out but uh like a live podcast While I'm in town early July And uh yeah that's what he said I don't Know if you'd be willing to do it I Was going to ask you first but you and I Discuss Um and we have an uh I mean the audience Is going to be 10 people Max I feel like Not very many people hanging out with Our friends yeah but just hanging out Have a couple we'll record an episode For an hour and then if there's any like Cool Concepts that come up and we'll Just discuss it and I just thought it Would be something cool to release as like my 100th episode or something so I Don't know would be Comfortable with that I think it's going To be different that'll be interesting To do yeah I would happily do it yeah I Feel there's okay I know that this is Technically going to be listened to by a Non-zero amount of people and that's Fine there's something that feels so Much more intimate and like um Vulnerable about doing it in front of [02:13:24] Jacob: People you know people that you probably Know right into something that's like uh Uniquely even though it's not uh Pretentious like although just Implicitly by coming on here I am Stating that my what I'm saying is worth Being heard and you should listen to it Going in front of actual humans is like Really saying that like I'm what I have To say is so important that you should Show up to this physical place and Listen to me and talk about it Yeah I uh dude I'm it's the Part of imposters it's a part of anybody Doing anything like if you have Something to say just **** do it but I because so I actually Um uh like a month ago I DJ for my first Time in Austin haven't I haven't played Out here but I didn't want to stand up Bro like I didn't I was like I kept what I was practicing and I was planning out Like what I was going to bring I was Like I'm not going to stand up for This DJ set because I got I got it in my Head I was like I don't really feel like I like I don't really want people like Staring at me I don't really want to be [02:14:22] Jacob: Like I'm the DJ up here and you guys bow Down to me there was something about it I don't know if this is inherently Connected but I so I did my whole set Sitting down actually and you really did It sitting I 100 did it sitting because I got into my head about like just kind Of hiding like yeah like don't and I was Also like singing and stuff a lot too Like this was one of the first sets Where I did like an eight or nine Original songs but um but it wasn't like A I wanted to make sure it wasn't a look At me sort of thing which I'm sure it Was I don't know it's something I'm Always toying with it but um I don't know I think I'm gonna I'm DJing Tomorrow um at the same location I'm Gonna stand up tomorrow I think so we'll Send this progress baby yeah but I Do I kind of like the image of I'm Over here in the corn like we're all Hanging out here and like I'm no better Than you I know But I'm I just happen to be the one Who's running the music over here like That's all like you guys oh cool you're [02:15:17] Jacob: Chilling you're drinking your beer cool like keep drinking your beer like I'll Just control the music you just do your Thing I like that you know I don't want This like we're coming to see Jacob from The internet and like they're staring at Me and every single time I make a Transition they're like just staring at My board of my fingers it's just I don't Know I let's just let's just exist and I'll Just do what I'm good at over here and you do what you're good at You know that's interesting contention Yeah I don't know how I feel about it Well all right buddy I appreciate you Much Um yeah you can edit this out or Whatever yeah I'll probably edit out This last this last minute yeah I Actually thought I felt really good About that yeah I think that one Went well yeah I'm glad that you brought Up um like huntology and stuff and Mark Fisher I think that's a really cool Thing and I think we could definitely revisit it because I think it's yeah It's very on the tongue it's very uh no I'm Italian it's very um it's very right Now you know what is the word looking Uh prudent Very relevant yeah I mean pretty much [02:16:22] Jacob: Everybody every name that I said is all Worthy of a long form explanation it Just felt bubble one I probably don't Know enough about it off the top off the Cuff to actually do that And then uh It just felt prudent to like elaborate Where hey look where the **** is all This coming from because like getting The end of the thought chain is almost Impossible Um I don't know hopefully it wasn't that Clumsy and at least it's hard to unknow If somebody else is going to understand What you're saying because I already Understand all the stuff you know so It's like I don't know what needs to be Said all the way to explain this Yeah like you already got all the stuff In the bag they might not even but I Think that's the thing about our conversations that's the thing about any sort of like philosophical conversations Is a lot of times you're not listening To solve like it really is just a Listening practice of allowing the ideas Like Um like You're kind of allowing what the person Is saying to like spark whatever like You're not really necessarily trying to Argue with it or trying to fight Justification it's kind of like a let's [02:17:24] Jacob: Listen to something new and allow it to Do what it's doing to me so you don't Have to have that much backlog of it Yeah I listen to lectures of people that Actually do what they're talking about like seven times you know Like even if it's just in the background Just like I this needs to get in here Mostly so let's just listen to the noise Well with velocity inherently like Uh Victor Frankel's man search for Meaning I was rereading this morning and It sounded like a new book and I'm Pretty positive I've read it before I've Listened to it before but I wasn't Sitting there listening to it like I was Probably like painting and like taking Notes and like allowing myself to think About the philosophies I know that Relate to it or whatever you know and so It's you don't always absorb it like That's the beauty of it's kind Of the same thing for like spiritual or Religious texts it's not meant to be Like oh I read it once and now I know All the information it's like at Different times in your life with Different information and different Moods it kind of like Sparks different Things within you so that's it's funny [02:18:24] Jacob: To say that because it's just it that is Very real but it's pretty it's Irrelevant to me currently it's um I like the Matrix as a kid I watched it Again before I engaged with these two Thinkers John billiard and Mark Fisher and then I said out loud like wow This is way less deep than I thought it Was like this is actually kind of though If we look at the simulation bro so **** deep but I'm actually was just An idiot and I didn't know what I didn't Know yet and then it became a deep again When I understood the actual contextual Meaning of the thing and it was very Humbling in a way it's like you're Actually a **** idiot all the time Maybe you should stop complaining about Stuff Oh I love it **** you know Consistently unwinding what we thought We knew yeah it's just I don't know you Did get sat down all the time which I Actually like it I think that's a really Good experience to have it was just it Was funny because it's like to somebody Somewhere if I said this to them and They already knew I'm the **** idiot And you know what nice that's cool I Definitely was I'm okay with being the [02:19:29] Jacob: Idiot I don't care absolutely I'm happy To be the idiot Okay all right brother well I appreciate You man um yeah feel free to uh any ideas you Have about the world any thoughts that You have shoot me with a text give me a Call Snapchat me whatever like I'm I'll Get back to you whatever same thing We've been doing definitely really go to unload today This felt pretty good because it's like Hard to talk to other people about this Because it's like gonna be like a I try To I'll tell my girlfriend and she'll Just **** listen she will she'll Listen to me no matter what But it's like I feel really time Constrained to explain something that is Not worthy of constraints so I'm like Yeah well yeah write my paper about this Thing and there's this guy and he's like This is what he believes kind of it's Important because you know this part of This is like yeah here's how economics Works and you know it's like just too Many things I seem to be um especially With you and I seem to be someone who Is pretty good at Understanding overall meaning like I'm Not like I'm not too literal of a person [02:20:32] Jacob: I live in abstracts yeah and um uh Symbols and uh analogies that's how I Actually watch films and engage with art It's nothing is ever literal I cannot Take things at face value just not how I Operate how do people watch movies and Just like focus on not the theme like Because people are not trained to one Kind of dumb to that's fine and it's not Because it's their fault they just Weren't educated to do that but I've Just always thought in abstracts so That's why I've been really into media Criticism lately not to criticism in a Bad way but as in being critical of Films to suss out analysis because it's Like there's like a basic story here but This is communicating a bunch of **** That maybe the authors didn't even know And all I got to do is look at it with The right lens to figure it out yeah Yeah I mean I think that's like the Hero's journey is so fascinating in that Sense of like what's the underlining of Like every movie we've ever watched Like in the modern you know like Christian post-christianity world we Live in is it's the hero story you know And that's yeah a lot of people just don't ever see [02:21:39] Jacob: Themes so yeah I think that's why we why We get along so well in a lot of ways Look at that well I turned my uh I don't Think I'm sweating But that's uh when I went to Germany I Looked at like we went to **** load of Museums and because of school I actually Am technically trained to analyze art And it's just as I found that if you Live in abstractions everything is more Enriching you can get something out of Everything every meaningless symbol like Oh this building is like a really acute Square with really basic Windows okay so This is brutalist architecture here's The market pressure that made this Happen here oh here are the little Nuances how this is different from its Predecessors right so it's just like This is a symbol that's communicating Something to me about Society or it Could just be a **** building right One of these things is infinitely more Interesting and a more fun way to look At the world and one is boring and lame Yeah one I can't do anything with The literal sense of things a lot of the Times in the literal sense is again on Falsivity it's like It's real if we're assuming the [02:22:39] Jacob: Story of like this whole thing is real Yeah **** we just **** talked about That in a bunch of Senses yeah it's like If you just take the **** goggles That you have and you look at the thing It's like yeah that's the thing but it's Like is it really the **** thing I Don't know take the glasses off it's Like 12 things yeah it is Actually at what level we perceive Things it's I mean it kind of brings it Back to like the concept of time again Too like I think we can I think that people like you and I Likely perceive time itself differently Than Um like a literal a literal thinker And that's the whole thing we Come back at another date but yeah we Should talk about so actually a big part Of Mark Fisher's thing is temporality Being ruined because art won't make new Stuff so like that's why Everything feels like Oh the 80s are back all the 70s are back We've lost our transition in time and we Have a sense of Um retrograde amnesia where we can Remember everything up to a certain date And then nothing Beyond it we just are Forced to relive the same four Decades Of culture over and over and over again [02:23:45] Jacob: So everything plays on Nostalgia have You have you looked much into outside of Like scoffing because it's kind of silly Like woo-woo um like the uh mandala Effect have you have you looked in or Heard anything about this Where it's like people will all Misremember the same thing like The Bernstein Bears yeah but it keeps Getting weirder and **** weirder and I think that's probably because I'm Clicking on things on the internet and So it's showing me the weird or like More you know closer to the closer to Meeting Q himself of Q Anon sort of Clicks that I'm taking but um there is Something about that too that is very Weird I think that like we're gonna Start misremembering things in like a Very chaotic way well that makes sense Though because everything's becoming a Like a shitty symbol of itself and Nothing is ever it's a real form anymore So it's like Or misremembering the simulation of the Thing That makes sense Yeah because you can't find bases like Once you misremember you can't like go Back to solidarity if solidarity was Never true it's just **** everything Is **** and that's like the Temporalness of reality art and culture Is just like suspended in time and **** a mess [02:25:00] Jacob: Because we just keep saying the same Symbols that are just like slightly Adjusted over and over and over again Until they just are self-referential and Meaningless and now it's just like a **** mess there's just like nothing Means anything and it's all Not how it should be I guess I think we Are going to upgrade like our senses Or like dude I think something is gonna **** maybe it's through technology Maybe it's like the I don't know it does it feel like to you That we're getting to a heading of sorts Like something that's going to happen Like whether that's like you know the **** end of humans as we know it or If it's like oh we discovered this new Particle and we can do things with it And now I don't know it seems like well I don't actually I don't think so it has To I think it feels like we're Approaching something but we just keep Repeating the same Loop over and over Again and every time science gets a Little better more efficient they could Actually help people it never does it Always goes to making bombs or whatever And uh it's just like a really boring Dystopian view what if science isn't the Way up [02:26:07] Jacob: Well I actually think that ideology is The way out that's kind of why I said That um If I can get you to look at your own Ideology that's the best thing I could Ever do because the only way that we can Take all that science and make it good Is if we change the lens in which we Look at everything Maybe it's not the science itself it's The application of it's oh we found Out that we can do Quantum Computing but We're not going to apply it correctly Because our ideology that we're bathed In is not going to allow us to make Anyone's lives better or make anything New because we have a very rigid view of What is true and what is real But I wonder if there's a way that we Could take the technology like the Inventions like the things that we were Doing for this certain thing and then Once we suddenly realized oh okay this Is not going to actually solve the problems that we've been like hoping it Would we just suddenly take that Technology that you know magic and just Completely apply it to something that we Never thought of applying it to before Yeah I think that's a really like one [02:27:07] Jacob: Idea and fun yeah no it actually is Though and it honestly it makes sense Why it would it would happen because it Feels really good it's like oh **** yes Someone's gonna save it somebody can't Do this thing everything's solved But it almost feels like a red herring For the real solution to things you know Where it's like what are the problems We're having really bad material Conditions for most people most of the World lives in abject poverty and is Subject to terrible working conditions Because of the machine of the market That we've Chosen and uh housing costs a Lot and rich people are too rich Compared to poor people okay so these All have really simple and mundane Answers which is like change at the base Change the economic system it's not sexy We don't need science for it But People in charge will sell you what's Called retrofuturism they will take this Is a hauntological concept too they will Take the Sci-Fi tropes of the mid-80s Package them into new products and say That they are revolutionary and they They are going to help and change Because that Tony don't guess Bitcoin I'll send you a video it's like two Hours you should watch it I really like It okay but [02:28:14] Jacob: There is like because of the stories and The ideology that we have there is like A very god-like savior complex that is Ingrained in Christianity That's like the hero is a part of Western ideology and culture So having somebody that will take all of The symbols and all of the uh Concepts From the ideas of sci-fi to save the World all the media because we really uh View the world through stories in a lot Of ways and media is really anchoring They will give you like this Tesla truck Or like going to Mars and this is a red Herring from solving the real problem Which would fundamentally make them lose Power in society so it's like a two-fold Thing like their pacifying society and Gaining social Credit Or retrofitious ideas when actually all The ideas that would help everybody is Stuff they actively don't want to happen Yeah part of me thinks like there's no Way we could get duped again but You know here we are all the time baby I'm getting duper right now guarantee it I don't even know it I'm always getting Not even real dude But maybe that's just maybe I'm just a Soy boy Beta liberal cook maybe science will Save everything I don't know maybe I [02:29:31] Jacob: Just need to like I don't know eat beef I think yeah that is your problem Actually um but Germanic and invade the Romans Really yeah I am I don't know man It's been fun though I enjoy your Company It was damn good to see you man I feel Like it's been too long I know it has Been I know I feel like we didn't we Didn't like um there's always so many things that Like I don't talk to very many people so Like there's so many things that I'm Like I want to tell Spencer I did want To um I don't like want to get too deep Into it now we could say it for another time but I want to talk to you about Like all this Kundalini stuff at some Point like I generally like the way my belief System is right now is so weird and it's Just been it's been like Kundalini like isn't that a form of yoga Divine feminine energy yeah it's Essentially like there is Um energy coiled at the base of the Spine for all humans and it can be Awakened purposely or accidentally Although they say there's no accidents If it's awakened even by you like going To some breath work class and it like it [02:30:37] Jacob: Happens to you then that was divine Whatever but essentially I believe that I have awoken something that I did not Know existed through all of my like I'm Jake and I'm gonna kill myself if I Don't figure out what the hell's wrong going on with my brain and I was doing All this breath work and yoga and Meditation and smoking a lot of weed and Blah Um I basically awaken something within Myself that um Like it is very uh psychologically Psychologically destabilizing in a lot Of ways but I think that I've like sat With it enough that um I kind of Understand it and doesn't make me like So crazy I have a very annoying and Materialist view of this stuff that's Probably pretty deflating but well I do Think that the actual sensation is **** cool and if you no matter what It comes from whatever you think it Comes from trying to get there is tight Yeah so there's so many people You can listen to that uh like their Experience of it is literally like Um like I just listened to somebody on An interview yesterday or something that Theirs was they had done a meditation Class or like it was something it was a Couple days afterwards and they woke up [02:31:44] Jacob: In the middle of the night to the only Way they can describe it was the feeling Of energy shooting out of the top of Their head and then they just like sat There staring at the wall for 20 minutes Like and then you know it's a different Kind of like weird sort of things start Happening in their life but um there's Like tons of people where they have the Actual moment of like And then some people are basically in Like a some level of Enlightenment for Like some period of time like months Weeks um like Eckhart Tolle for example Like when he had his near-death Experience he sat on a bench for **** Two years and just like tried to like Stabilize it's basically like your Perception of reality is so different Afterwards but like you don't really Have the old comparison of how reality Was to like compare it to so you're not Really understanding what you're what You're fully feeling and so you're Basically on a psychedelic trying to get Used to how the Psychedelic feels and Like this is now reality and so a lot of Ways like I had um a changing of my Consciousness it's like a changing of my Perception of reality rather and I had To like [02:32:43] Jacob: Understand it and Um I don't know in a lot of it kind of Points a lot of my understanding not That it's like capital T truth but Pointing towards things that kind of Feel right it's a lot of the Kundalini Stuff like I have this book on it um That's like it's completely based in Science but like it's so hard to connect Any of it with science even if I'm Reading like studies it almost ruins it Almost ruins it yeah I'm thinking that The scientific way if I just get it Explained to me in a scientific way then I'll be able to make sense of it and I Can explain to other people it'll make Sense to me and it's like yeah it almost Ruins it makes it more like I know For a fact I want to take LSD it binds To my um serotonin receptor two site and It closes it off and it doesn't leave For eight hours but it doesn't know but The wall still **** melts yeah okay Yeah I mean I don't actually know you Can't I know where it's going I know Words hooking up to I know that it's Safe I know it's fine for me but the **** walls melt and I can hear my [02:33:39] Jacob: Friends think okay Yeah so when you can find that on Science direct I don't really know I Remember saying at one point before I Like even kind of it was like years Before like the edge of my depression Where I like really started like looking It up I just like had dealt with Depression I had friends with depression I remember like dying on the hill I was Like so like you guys don't understand Depression is a chemical imbalance in The brain the person cannot help I'm Like what how the **** is that an answer But okay what is that what does That even mean though like how is that An answer it's like what are you even Saying like what fundamentally doesn't Change your material condition to Understand why it's happening right yeah Like oh I understand that I might not Produce enough serotonin for whatever Reason okay well I'm still **** sad Though like yeah but what Caused these cause these chemical Reactions or the lack of chemicals and Like what were the actions of the person Leading up to it and what are their Genetics and what are you know there's Like all these tons of things that come Into it not like You need to just like completely listen [02:34:41] Jacob: To the person who's depressed just Because they have a chemical imbalance It's just I don't know I come to terms With it in and out Yeah that's great I don't know well it's Like it kind of sucks The Human Experience is kind of shitty because It's just like an evolutionary process And there's nothing that is evolutionary Advantageous about not being depressed Like your biology doesn't care it Doesn't increase survival at all Really so it's like you can still Make kids so I mean well even socially It actually brings you down the social Hierarchy like there is there is an Innate yuckiness that comes with Depression or anxiety or like uh Um anxiety was a great adaptation Because like oh there's Tigers oh man I Continue to be anxious about that but Identifying as being someone Who is anxious and like allowing them to Be a personality belonging to that to be The thing that you make podcast episodes About is inherently ucky to the outside World yeah like there's not females who Are you know running for the protection of The dude who's anxious it's just it's a Different thing it's uh it changes Things it's different so for that Anxiety gets you to kill **** Tigers Bro Yeah sure yeah I guess I'm talking [02:35:52] Jacob: About anxiety versus Um like the identity of being anxious I I am here with anxiety that gets in the Way of Discussing anxiety oh man I'm so sorry I Try to cut I'm trying to cut that out it Seems that the uh the compressor did its Jobs job and so it was just hit me I was Like oh man that's loud I hope my levels Were okay I try to keep this at the same Distance from my mouth but not too far Away or closer I think they're good and I do everything in post anyway like so I record this within Zoom but then I Also like I have Ableton running in the Background recording my audio on this End just so my voice can sound that much Better but it just gives me literally Way more extra work for no **** Reason so I should just record it all in Zoom and post it as it is Sometimes I feel that I advertise myself As an audio engineer so I need to not Have a podcast that sounds shitty but Then I make music that's like inherently A Lo-Fi style that sounds like recorded Through a butthole you just like Purposely compressed the **** out of it [02:36:52] Jacob: I do a lot of weird things that I do Like for artistic yes it's artistic but Also it's like well it's going to take me another two hours if I do it the Other way this sounds bad because of art All right **** leave me alone yeah Thanks Lo-Fi you really led the way like This is giving me that Nostalgia feel to It Yeah all right cool brother well um I Think I mean we always say this but I Think we should just uh hop on a phone Call as often as we can just super down I'm finally not uncumbered enough I was Dude I was so over encumbered for like Two years just with school too that it's So liberating So I'd be super down to do that well I'm Available fairly often a lot of times Um I'm at home like I'm kind of in An ethereal realm of just creating or Just being stoned in my apartment so That's where I'm at a lot of times so Call whenever but um I just started With another company doing stagehand Stuff so hopefully my schedule isn't Like super open but um oh and I'm Working at the dock a lot too that's a **** banging job it's a cool job man [02:37:53] Jacob: It's uh it's funny because it's actually Kind of difficult like um not difficult Like mentally difficult for me like I Just I'm just not the same social guy I Used to be Um not just that it's draining but Like even just you know put 25 year old Me on a boat with like 12 you know cute Bachelorette girls and I'm just gonna be A flirt and make sure they have a good Time whatever and now I'm like I kind of Just want to sit here and like not Really talk to any of you like so it's Yeah I've found a very weird autism Creep into my own life where it's like I'm serious like this fundamental the Way that I'm thinking all the time is Just like not appropriate for reality or Anybody else you're going to talk to or It's almost like **** jarring when Somebody's like hey how are you I'm like Oh my God fine I think I get I don't Really think about it you're like you're Gonna find me a **** football right Now like uh That ain't it so sometimes I'll lit like Sometimes almost all the time I'll drive To work or I'm driving to somewhere and Like when I take my keys out of the [02:38:51] Jacob: Ignition the philosophy conversation That was just listening or like the The guided meditation about the illusory Self just shuts off and then I get out Of the car and then I'm having like a Regular ass conversation with a person Weather's nice I guess yeah it's uh yeah So but it's fun though it's good uh It's very much Um this sounds like one of those like Toxic Millennial uh things I'm bringing In but it is very much like oh I need to Be social I know it's good for me I know That it helps me to like meet new people And kind of no it is good it is good Yeah it is I do miss it a lot I see People working out together all the time Like younger kids like a gag of them I'm Like dude that looks **** awesome Just hanging out But now it's like being boys dudes being Bros you know yeah but now you're like I Gotta not waste my time in the gym and I I've got to get shoulders and buys done Today and yeah I never say anything to Him like I came here for a reason I have enough friends yeah you're like I'm a serious weightlifter you guys Aren't serious yeah kinda [02:39:55] Jacob: Yeah all right brother well um lunch Appreciate you man yeah what lunch it is I'll be in touch soon man I'll probably Yeah I still have a backlog of episodes To post but I'll probably post this one Sooner than those just because I like Posting more recent ones so I'll let you Know All right brother I'm gonna I'm gonna End this thing have a good day my friend You too much love Conversations with ourselves Knowledge is power Reality is