0102 with Megan Hawkins From 'BetterU' Psychedelic Therapy - Ketamine To Heal Anxiety And Depression

[00:00:00] Intro: What you're listening to right now is just an intro with me if you would like to skip that intro feel free man value your time go ahead and look down in the description there should be a time that the actual conversation with Megan starts hello everybody Welcome to the junkyard love podcast it's me your host Mojo Jojo from The Powerpuff Girls That's right it's the monkey with the Hat I'm coming to you live right now from the back of an asteroid from a comet from uh from a giant space Rock Orbiting planet Earth I just so happen To have you know enough podcast reception to record this intro for you I Would sit down a little sit down a little base layer a little Foundation of What we're about to explore on this episode with Megan Hawkins from better You psychedelic therapy BetterU is The company that I went through to do at Home ketamine therapy you essentially have a consultation a conversation with somebody video chat um get your stuff all figured out ask them whatever questions that you have you go through questionnaires whatever and then they send the Kit to your house I think it goes through a pharmacy if I either way you Have to you have to sign for it when it gets to your house but uh inside the kit there's a blindfold there's a blood pressure cuff there is a journal there Is the ketamine it's in a trophy troche T-r-o-c-h-e I feel like it's pronounced different every everybody that I talked to I never know which way to say but this thing that dissolves on the inside of your lip or under your tongue and Um that is the that is the medicine itself but anyway you are also um accompanied with it is a portal that you have uh online you basically have a Profile um I'm not sure if they have an app maybe it's an app now as well but um it Walks you through everything you know there's chapters there's different sessions so if you're doing your first one you click on that it gives you Journal prompts to write it Gives you all the reminders like this whole thing you're set up for Success from the beginning you know um to do your at-home ketamine session They give you all the 4-1-1 of what To do how to set up your day itself how To treat the days in between how often to do it usually it's two Trips a week and I say trips it's a Psychedelic trip but technically Academy is not a psychedelic actually there's a lot of interesting articles on that I've been reading it's um uh it's a Little bit brainier than I can fully wrap my head around but uh some of the examples are nice but you do have what I would say a psychedelic trip I had read that it wasn't a psychedelic and it was a disassociative and Um I mean to be honest I found it to be much more like I've done mushrooms magic mushrooms psilocybin in the in the past and I really found it to be quite similar to magic mushrooms Um I had a friend use the term Cosmic when it came to ketamine and so There's something right about that ketamine does seem to be a bit more Cosmic than the uh the trip on psilocybin magic mushrooms but nonetheless you are set up through this company they give you everything that you need they give you the support along the way they give you the process you know what to do the day of you know what to do during you know what to do after Um it's great stuff I mean some of the journal prompts are just fantastic I found myself writing a ton for all these um and there's just a lot to be said about this stuff there's a lot to be said about the changes in personality identity mood self Um the holding on that we all have With our various you know ailments and there's I don't know there's a I want to Allow Megan the space to explain these Things so much more elegantly and Um you know eloquently even than I Possibly can um which she does in this episode but I Um I think as a base layer It's certainly very interesting this is There's something about this there's something very good about this there's even you know this has only been a couple months for me since I've done it and there's still things I feel like Unfolding you know um there is as Megan says psychedelics Will often give you what you need Not exactly what you want and there is some sort of Truth to that there's like some um acceptance of things in life that seems to come afterwards but uh regardless I would suggest I had kind Of gotten a little sloppy admittedly on my last three trips I was doing a lot of traveling for work and I had a lot of eagerness about um about doing these do doing this whole Process so um I kind of like split up my last half Of the sessions in a way that probably Wasn't as good I should have like I just I waited too far in between and I was traveling so I would like skip a week in between or whatever I think there's some powerful um attributes to be said towards the Eight consecutive sessions if you have that availability it's two sessions a week um yeah man if you guys want I they actually sent me um I'm so happy they said this is the cool thing about having a podcast they sent me some Swag like so I got some uh some BetterU shirts and hat and tote and just super cool uh so sweet of them and they also sent me um some 100 off gift cards so if you Um I don't know if you're a fan of the podcast hit me up email me Um message me text me if you have my phone number and uh if you're planning on doing this might as well get 100 bucks off I did want to also mention the Word disassociative that's a huge word that you hear in the world of ketamine that was a that was a mad turn off for me I actually really was kind of about that word um if you've dealt with any sort of you know any variation of these things That you're coming here with depression anxiety PTSD whatever you've probably Actually experienced the scarier crappy version of disassociation depersonalization derealization dpdr is Also known on some subreddits um I used to have a I used to have some issues with this and um I would say that I really don't find That to be a great word to use Interchange and changeably for uh this This ketamine trip this ketamine experience that you have I just maybe It's similar but I if I had it my way I would use entirely different words um it just seems like the experience that I had under the under the ketamine Is quite different than that I would consider to be disassociation Um that I've dealt with in the past so I just want to throw that out there just because that was something I totally forgot to ask Megan about but uh it was something that was really kind of like loud to me um at the beginning that would have actually kind of been helpful if somebody said like ah maybe it's not exactly what you what you think it is um perhaps I'm going to be wrong and maybe everybody's definition of disassociation is going to be vastly different it's such a strange experience anyway but um uh if there's things that we didn't cover in this podcast if there's things that I didn't cover in the in the intro um if there's if you have questions man just reach out as I say that in the podcast but just reach out to BetterU if you're interested in this I feel like they're more than willing to explain and Get you along for the ride or you know Make you feel better about uh anything you know that you're nervous or confused About I will leave you with this one thing I just want to say follow All of their prompts follow their portal do what they say to do um uh go through the process the way that they lay it out and do all of it and like just be serious about getting this stuff on your calendar setting the time aside like don't be lackluster um and then so and once you do all that then just stinking out loud like once you have that blindfold on once that music thing is going once you're In the world of that playlist for the next you know 90 minutes to two hours just do whatever is just allow whatever Is happening I mean I would do some strange things that like were really healing and Powerful to me I was like drumming on my chest and you know kind of like writhing comfortably and gently You know in my bed I'm singing and humming kind of you know it's there was a bunch of like strange vocal tonality Frequency sort of things that seem to be Happening that just felt really good to allow them to happen you know I think if there was somebody sitting next to me if I was nervous about like who could hear me or if someone's seeing me I might Be less prone to do those things um and I'm just I'm just really aware of that like we have this self-conscious nature of can I allow this thing that feels So natural to work through me without my constricting hands and I think just for this I would like to say allow it allow it do whatever weird stuff maybe you don't move your body at all and that's your experience that's super cool maybe you don't sing or hum or nothing at all that's super cool too but if you do have the inclination to do those sorts of things you know keep it safe listen to the instructions you know you're on something that is um lessening in many ways your motor functions so you know be smart but I Don't know just allow yourself to experience this thing and really uh be willing to kind of accept what's on the other side I think it has potential to be a beautiful experience anyway this uh please read the description below any info you need to know you should be able to go down below and click on links hit me up for the hundred dollars off um you know and then as usual please if wherever you're at leave a review like subscribe comment if any of that share with anybody who needs it and feel free to ask me um anything that you need to know that I can help with and I leave you in the very capable hands of Megan Hawkins you guys are going to love this episode you're gonna love the way that she lays everything out analogies metaphors personal experiences um some stuff that She's learned from working with patients she shares a lot of her personal background too after we get into it for a while she actually kind of tells the story of uh how she landed Where she is today it's this like an unbelievable story too so Um yeah stick around for that I know it's a long one but you know if there's a lot of important stuff from the beginning and to the middle end to end honestly so maybe this is one that you don't sit down and listen to for the entirety of it but you just listen to it in 20 to 30 minute chunks throughout the next couple days regardless get it in there's lots of good stuff there's a lot of people who could benefit from this information you're going to love Megan here we go guys thanks for listening to the junkyard love podcast we'll catch you next time At what age should we learn to have better conversations with ourselves Knowledge is power

[00:11:12] Intro: We'll assume going into the podcast that I've basically given you like a Partial introduction but I think I'll probably spend you know 5-10 minutes as my little intro basically saying hey I Did ketamine therapy here's what it was here's the company I got this person on from this I kind of give them a little bit of a basis because I definitely want to bring in complete newcomers like people who don't know anything about psychedelics people don't know anything about ketamine any of that as much as I like definitely want to go into the weeds if that's where we go I just want to give people I always like to bring in the Newbie like I want to leave everybody in even if they've never heard the podcast or heard about any of us in any way um they feel like they're part of the conversation so we will assume that I have done that sort of intro um and then um Yeah I mean otherwise we can get rid of do you have any questions prior do you have anything on your mind any uh not really no I mean I was gonna

[00:12:05] Megan: Talk about like I'm like allowed to say like you can go to BetterU care Like.com like the Instagram like you know things like that way it's sort of like hey like if you know if you're interested like you can check us out blah things like that yeah plug away don't be afraid to say do Anything and like yeah I'm totally fine and like I said again yesterday if you like accidentally say something or something you forgot I can throw in the description um I can add it to social media if you say something you wish you didn't say just let me know I can clip it out like it's I control everything on this luckily so I get to kind of present it how I'd like and I definitely like I said I'm like such a fan of you guys and everything you're doing so like please plug away on better absolutely well thank you I'm excited I'm ready to jump right on in cool all right well everyone

[00:12:52] Jacob: Listeners welcome to the junkyard love podcast I am happy you're here today I'm here with Megan I'm here with Megan Hawkins um Yeah I want to get into your story Megan you uh you gave me a glimpse of Your story last night and I was just mind blown I was just like you introduced it as you're not gonna believe this and I'm like okay cool and then it was it was truly an unbelievable story um and then yeah and then just your journey after that Um I really just want to let you kind of take it away in a lot of ways because I feel like you describe your journey so well and it leads right into um everything about ketamine and ketamine therapy and kind of like how you how you guys started this whole thing and um and then we'll then we'll just get going into to ketamine therapy in general and all the benefits for you Know depression and PTSD and anxiety and I'm just like so excited about all this stuff so um I would love to just start with Megan Who are you and uh how did you get into

[00:13:54] Megan: All this stuff yeah so um my name's Megan and uh I am With a better use psychedelic therapy we do ketamine currently primarily via Telemedicine but uh hopefully we're going to be uh opening up or not hopefully we are actually going to be opening up a Los Angeles uh headquarters location here very soon so that's going to be super exciting um but what we do primarily is we work With patients um with ketamine and we send it to them uh at home so you receive a brain box That's got medication a couple of like other helpful things in there for example a blood pressure cuff and eye mask some little heart fun glasses a Journal a couple other things and uh basically from the very moment that you First come to our website all the way to the point of where you're you've been just kind of getting into you know maintenance care you are having a Resource you have information you have content every single step of the way Um so much so to the point where when you come to our website before even needing to sign up you can actually just Get on a call and talk to somebody and they'll give you know some information walking through the program kind of how it works and go through pricing things like that so we really

[00:15:11] Jacob: Have an incredible team that assists you

[00:15:14] Megan: Really throughout that whole process so Um if you ever have questions things you can always reach out to us and we have a wonderful team to help yeah I felt really supported like right away everybody that I talked to is really cool everybody was super willing to like answer questions and um yeah I mean it felt like I think going into it I was like okay you're doing it out at home it's in the like alien alienating thing but it didn't Feel like that it definitely I just I'm just in agreeance from someone who has done this it's definitely you feel supported and have all the resources good yeah it's that's the biggest thing and that when we were first coming to this and figuring out

[00:15:51] Jacob: Like okay you know back in 2019

[00:15:54] Megan: Um ketamine the Johnson they Came up with their own version they patented it's about half the molecule that makes up the total molecule of ketamine and it's a nasal spray it Is covered by Insurance um but it has to be done in clinic and That is kind of what started this whole ketamine revolution in a sense with the at-home models and you know specifically

[00:16:17] Jacob: For depression anxiety as well as PTSD

[00:16:20] Megan: And um so that's really when you know

[00:16:23] Jacob: Back in that day it was about fifteen

[00:16:26] Megan: Hundred dollars for a single IV session and there was no preparation there was no post integration it was basically just you come into a room you have a Couple minutes of have you ever tried ketamine and have you ever tried psychedelics like what's your you know Baseline going into it and then basically just you know plug you in and send you off and while for some people That could be incredibly transformative and helpful um if you have never had any experience of ketamine or psychedelics and you have

[00:16:58] Jacob: No idea what to expect the thing with Psychedelics is that they can be equally as harmful as they can be beneficial so

[00:17:06] Megan: It's incredibly important to really not

[00:17:08] Jacob: Only prepare people before you go into That kind of experience of what they're getting into but also the way we do it Is we make sure that we start people off very slow so you're essentially dipping your toe in the water before you know essentially cannonballing off into that deep end so you can really get comfortable let that guard down because that makes a huge difference in the treatment as well and so basically like I said this was back 2019 it was about Fifteen hundred dollars a session and you know it's well that is it can't be

[00:17:42] Megan: Very beneficial it's just not feasible

[00:17:45] Jacob: And it's not sustainable and most of us

[00:17:49] Megan: Like you know can't even imagine spending more than a couple hundred dollars on Mental Health let alone fifteen hundred dollars for a single session and so when creating BetterU

[00:17:59] Jacob: Our biggest goals were to really focus

[00:18:03] Megan: On making this as accessible as possible But also as affordable as we can so that Not just that one percent of people can be able to utilize this treatment Um so that's really kind of our goals with BetterU've been specifically kind of what I do um you know I've been here since you know day one of the founders has been building this everyday piece by piece for almost about a little over two Years now I would say and um you know of course it was definitely much different in the beginning but we've been you know growing adding new content expanding of course you know into more and more States being very thoughtful about not expanding too quickly wanting to ensure that quality of care that really is like probably our

[00:18:47] Jacob: Number one priority is making sure that Each and every single person gets that level of care and attention that wheel

[00:18:55] Megan: Desire serve because one size does not Fit all nor should it right we're all individual unique creatures and we should be treated as such and so that's really the way that we have structured our program so that not only when you first go through it initially it's a bit more structured but then after that you can really kind of play With it and customize it to fit your needs which is really great um in terms of what I do with BetterU that has kind of shifted a little bit you know like I said since the beginning of course you know I was doing you know wearing all these different hats at the beginning and then as we've grown and built out uh the different teams of uh Departments and just different aspects of the company uh now what I really

[00:19:38] Jacob: Primarily work with is uh with patients

[00:19:41] Megan: Each day and I help troubleshoot I

[00:19:44] Jacob: Basically help run the support and Retention team so anytime somebody has an issue they have a question they're you know they're doing their sessions and something is not you know they need help they have questions they're like is it am I doing this right I don't know what to expect sort of like you can get on a call with me and I'll kind of help You know just ask some baseline questions to kind of get an idea of what's going on and based on that I can give you really help helpful you know tools advice you know things to try Making those little adjustments to kind of find that perfect dose but additionally um you know if you're wanting to continue after in the initial first round um kind of moving into more of that maintenance that's also really where I

[00:20:30] Megan: Can kind of help you to understand how

[00:20:32] Jacob: The process works what maintenance looks Like you know in terms of timeline frequency how often you're doing the sessions and just really giving helpful Tools and for people to get the most out Of this and really maximize their sessions so that's sort of what I really Focus on now with patients but uh you know among a few other things that's kind of primarily what I do now so right yeah that's how I Initially had met you because I had done my first initial sessions and then um You guys have it to where you have a conversation with one of you over there and um yeah I mean I felt I feel like I Felt really at ease after our conversation there was a lot of things that like I was kind of curious about and you explained it really well I'm like oh that makes a lot of sense and I really appreciated your perspective on a lot of those things um just to like throw in my hat just to say you do feel supported through This stuff I think like the it may be a little daunting for people to do this you know at home seems kind of weird in Some senses but as I mean I actually like I wouldn't have it any other way I really like the way that it went and I felt very supportive um okay so can you we'll continue on to With more of your story but um what is our initial what is the difference between um are different so you were saying

[00:21:49] Megan: Maintenance versus our initial dose so Is it four sessions or eight session is typically the dose that people would be um recommended so the way that we it works um we worked you know very closely with the clinicians and developing our protocols essentially and so the way that we've Kind of figured it all out is that if somebody has like if you've been dealing with something a bit more chronically let's just say about a year or more that's really where clinicians will Recommend to get started with the eight session package and what that means is essentially it breaks down to doing about two sessions per week Um that so that's really kind of the first you know the main package that a lot of people do get started with the other is the four session package which breaks down to doing about one session per week that's typically if uh you know Whatever it is that you're coming to this treatment for it's a bit more recent like something you know within the past 12 months or so that's kind of the way the clinicians will recommend If you're interested in getting started kind of in terms of being able to choose Whether you want to do that four session package or a session package initial for Getting started one thing to note is that after like the First month you really want to do it on

[00:23:09] Jacob: Much more of a like consistent basis Um meaning like you're kind of doing it for the schedule um you're following you know the guidelines in the portal you're utilizing the playlists that we have specifically curated for each of those sessions and kind of just really following as close as you can Um you know just through the program and the member portal uh kind of you know it walks at you through each step it breaks down it has different session focuses um Journaling prompts breath work meditation exercises all kinds of great Things for each time that you're doing a session so all of that's in there so know that like I was saying before is there is content there's information there are tutorial videos everything in

[00:23:52] Megan: That member portal we have created Um so you've essentially got all of that information and tools needed as you're going through that Journey um so basically that's kind of the first month the idea here with ketamine is That it typically takes and again this is not a perfect science um it's kind of just a ballpark it takes people typically around six to eight

[00:24:14] Jacob: Sessions of like at that full dosage so

[00:24:17] Megan: That you've worked yourself up to Um to really be able to uh get enough of the medicine of what It's doing in your brain um it's it compounds each time that you're doing sessions really to that point of where

[00:24:31] Jacob: You can get to a full neurobiological

[00:24:34] Megan: Reset which is essentially if you Know if you think about it I have analogies for days it's basically like the full neurobiological reset is like

[00:24:44] Jacob: Almost a control alt delete of the hard Drive it's like resetting all of your systems and establishing like this Newfound Baseline of self from there which you can then be able to build and

[00:24:56] Megan: Grow and choose the life that you want And choose to be the person you want versus having all of these things controlling you um and so some people you know they're they can literally start to feel some of the benefits uh within you know maybe the first session or two other people it can take much longer it's very Everybody is different like I was saying is it's one size does not fit all and That's the reason we've created our program in this way so essentially like If you've been dealing with something for most of your life let's just say and Um you're coming to this treatment and you're like okay like I want to get started like how long is it going to take me to start you know feeling better the biggest thing that I think when it Comes to mental health especially with ketamine therapy right most people they're coming to us they're like I have tried everything I've tried every different kind of medication therapy treatment I mean you name it and nothing

[00:25:55] Jacob: Is ever really quite you know stuck for Me or worked or you know maybe it did but it gave me only temporary relief or It came with a ton of side effects or you know just it would just Band-Aid is trying to cover up you know essentially a gunshot wound which we'll get into later but um basically the idea is that

[00:26:14] Megan: As you're going through it starts Small we tend to focus on the big things That were coming to this treatment for you know I'm severely depressed I have

[00:26:24] Jacob: Crippling anxiety how do I get rid of

[00:26:27] Megan: These huge things but the way that in You know we want that magic pill of course to just you know happen overnight and fix us and heal us because we've been dealing with it for you know a decent amount of time and we want it to go away uh but the way that this really Works is it starts off slow and it's the Little things that kind of start trickling in little by little and those small things those start compounding Into the bigger and the bigger and the bigger things so I say this to Patients probably every single day and they don't really love it because it was Definitely a hard pill to swallow with that is that psychedelics they tend to give us what we need not necessarily what we want and a lot of the times we Have to go through the things that we need in order to get to the things that

[00:27:16] Jacob: We want and sometimes the things we want

[00:27:19] Megan: We might not necessarily be able to see Or know like what it is that we need to Get there we're just so fixated and focused on the thing that we want but We're not ready to tackle or handle that's why and say for example traditional talk therapy when they're You know they bring up the significant trauma that you experienced and all of a sudden you can feel yourself like you know kind of shutting down or like seizing up or you know your heart starts Pounding and you can feel your stomach drop and it's just you know anxiety starts flooding through your body it's because there's so much that you know You're just trying to skip to the end but there's so much in between that needs to be processed and dealt with and Covered before you're really ready to kind of face that big thing again and

[00:28:09] Jacob: That's really where ketamine Um is incredible and being able to help kind of ease that Journey along the way so it's kind of like Being able to dive into your subconscious and essentially having These things being brought up that are not usually the easiest or most wonderful things but it allows you to

[00:28:32] Megan: Start processing the information and you Know the emotions the thoughts the feelings everything that's been so deeply trapped inside of us and it allows us to do that without that same emotional charge that we would normally have and say something like talk therapy that would keep us from being able to even start trying to talk about it or Process it we just freeze up and so this Is really kind of it's like quieting down that you know monkey mind that we Tend to spend the days that our day-to-days in and it allows us to just Turn that volume down and turn the volume up of our subconscious and kind of just really get that great check-in with you know what's going on inside of us and you know facing some of these things and it's really truly a unique

[00:29:22] Jacob: Experience but basically that's kind of How it works so like I said some people it can happen super fast like they could

[00:29:30] Megan: Start feeling better within maybe you Know a couple of weeks other people it could take them a few months it's just it really depends on the person right Like if you think about it makes sense if you've been dealing with something almost your whole life it's probably going to take a little bit longer to undo and unlearn all of those Things that the certain way in which you have been functioning your whole life having to just all of a sudden start changing all of that it doesn't happen overnight so just it kind of makes sense it happens you know piece by piece but What you can kind of expect is that in The beginning it starts off usually little bits of you know waking up having More you know increased motivation having a bit more interest in doing Certain kinds of things that you haven't had interest in doing in a while um a lot of people like you know say they get a ton of clarity in certain things uh the two biggest ones I would Say that people really start kind of noticing within maybe the first week or So maybe first couple of weeks I would say depending on the person of course but is usually uh response to triggers

[00:30:38] Jacob: And instead of just immediately reacting

[00:30:41] Megan: When something happens instead it kind Of will give you that little bit of a beat or a pause to then be able to

[00:30:48] Jacob: Choose how to respond instead of just Reacting that's a huge one people start noticing in the beginning as well as

[00:30:55] Megan: That internal self-talk that dialogue Going on in our head it gets to be a little bit nicer so those are kind of Some of the things that start that's where it started begins and then it like

[00:31:08] Jacob: I said those small things get to the bigger and the bigger and the bigger um yeah I'll just jump in real quick Megan with my experience um I noticed you know the self-talk that definitely resonates with me like the I Would be on job sites and kind of noticing that I would be allowing myself

[00:31:25] Megan: To be myself a lot more often Um is where whereas you know we kind of get used to it becomes our just regular running machine of you know being Self-conscious or like over analyzing every single time we walk away from conversation we're like I wish I would have said this and I said this different blah and that could be like very you know as much as we get used to it could be like very defeating and make us want you know feel small in some sort of way so I had a little bit of um I noticed a lot you know really a lot of freedom over the time um being able to like just notice that in conversations I was allowing myself to be who I was and not being so self-critical and then um one other thing that was actually really cool that this is something that took me a while to really like sit with and understand Um because I experienced it I had done a while back I had done uh micro dosing Psilocybin and I had a little bit of those effects it took me a while to kind of understand and like correlate them with what I was feeling after the ketamine treatment too but um I had like a lot of suppression of anger like I didn't allow myself to feel I was like there's a lot of ways that I'd be you know a people pleaser and I really I hate conflict and all this stuff but it would there'd be legitimate situations where it's like man like it's okay to get angry about this it's not that you need to flip tables and like you know yell at anybody or anything like that but there's a way that you gotta allow that anger to process I actually noticed after my first session Um I had I was on a job site the next day that's also something I want to Cover like if we're able to go to work right afterwards and stuff too not afterwards but the day after um but I was on a job site the day after and there was you know we could avoid the details but There was basically this like this guy that was causing a bunch of us who were um you know contractors to like be kind of wasting our day when we didn't need to be there and uh he was just being super rude and it kept adding up and after a while I was like I was able to Kind of like just be straight up with him and like kind of like cut the BS and kind of like stand up for myself again I wasn't yelling at him it's not like ketamine makes me mad or something like it was just me internally my personal thing was I wasn't allowing anger or Frustration because I'm like I don't I don't want to get frustrated I want to be a clear kind sweet nice person and And those sorts of things because I had learned you know in various ways through my life that's how you belong and you don't want to be ostracized and you don't want to disrupt the flow of whatever you know these are things that I didn't know that I was dealing with was suppression of anger and so um I Basically like was able to kind of Step Into You know for lack of a less messy Word like my masculine side of myself at work and kind of stand up for myself and tell them hey look man like you're being disrespectful to us and we need to like let's just have this conversation so I was not only able to kind of feel anger that I had been suppressing which caught me off guard I didn't know that was something that was going to come up um but I was also like less self-critical of myself I didn't walk away just being really mad at myself like oh man he didn't see you as sweet Jake Ryan's like he's not gonna like you know it was like it's okay to stand up for yourself so just as like a caveat you know or a you know a side step of we Don't always know what's going to come up I think with this but it's so interesting to me to like discover and Allow after these things and go okay that's what I was dealing with cool this really gave me some space and like you said you know I'm always talking about meditation and stuff on here it gives you the space between stimulus and Response like so something happens and you respond to it gives you like a little bit of like hmm okay before I respond to this I have a little bit of space to like gather myself and respond and adequately so just like a little bit Of my personal side but um yeah so carry on let's go with um just because I had Just mentioned it someone did have a question that they had asked me um about so we can go to work the next day so we Can like we don't we don't take this every single day and if you could also Describe why is there a few days in between why do we do that yeah absolutely so all great questions so essentially um ketamine is an incredibly safe drug

[00:35:31] Jacob: You can take ketamine once a week for The rest of your life and have no long-term issues no damage no nothing it's really boils down to dosage and Frequency so in terms of you know you if You start of course you know you don't want to be doing ketamine every day that's really where there you know it gets dangerous it can cause issues with the bladder it can cause you know like issues with your brain um it's just it's not good and uh but

[00:35:57] Megan: That's you don't want to be doing that so if you'd want to anyway like it's such like I feel like I want that couple days to like wow that was like intense I want to you know sit with that for a second absolutely well that's the other thing too right is that uh you want the ketamine you really want to allow it to kind of work itself throughout your system and let it do its thing because um typically the way it works is um from Whatever it is that you do the session after about 24 hours after that's Really when the antidepressant effects start to Peak and so that's when people can really start to notice you know some of those you know just kind of changed thought patterns or like that little bit of clarity or just feeling a bit lighter in a sense even if they can't necessarily pinpoint exactly what it is

[00:36:41] Jacob: That like they are feeling they just

[00:36:44] Megan: Feel a bit better than they did Um and so it's really important to let the medicine work itself out um and so basically with our program you Can either do a session once a week or Twice a week you always want to make sure let's just say you're doing the twice a week you want it at the very bare minimum give yourself at the very least three to five days between the sessions that way it allows the medicine to work itself through your body also You know it lets your body kind of heal a little bit up um and yeah then that way also You're not building up the tolerance very quickly because that's another thing with ketamine that you know even if you're doing it you know what but twice a week or once a week it's one of The most common things we see is that tolerance can build up very quickly Um and that's normal it's just kind of how the medicine works um but definitely just you know in terms of safety we have a lot of safety data

[00:37:40] Jacob: Over the past you know few years that

[00:37:42] Megan: BetterU has been you know up and running from just the patients that we have seen but we also have some other

[00:37:49] Jacob: Like I believe trials and places that we Have been collecting and Gathering safety data from for uh many other years

[00:37:58] Megan: Before we started better use so we have A lot of information on you know just the safety and efficacy of it but really it just it boils down to like I said that dosage and frequency so making sure that if you're doing the once a week program you're doing a session about every five to seven days if you're doing It twice a week it's about every three to five days somewhere around there Um in terms of when you're doing the session can I go to work afterwards can I drive afterwards so the answer to all These things it really heavily depends on when you're doing the session and kind of just how you feel how you and how you respond to it so let's just say For example that you're doing the session after work in the evening typically we recommend people that if You are going to do that try to do it as early in the evening as possible because Typically people can kind of fall into around two camps the first being that when you come out of the experience Academy it really kind of turns your Mind on your brain can just feel very switched on and it can make it a little bit more challenging to fall asleep or even stay asleep other people they'll When they come out of it can just put you down and they actually get the best Sleep that they've had in a while so until you kind of know which one you fall into um if you're trying to do it super late at night um it's just then it could interrupt you know your sleep going into the next day and then of course if you have worked that following day being super groggy you're tired um in terms of like if you were doing That session in the evening even if you did it a bit earlier in the evening usually I'd say like probably six seven thirtyish latest I mean It really just depends on what time it is you typically go to go to bed I usually will say give yourself at least like three and a half hours for Almost from whenever it is you're gonna start that session to like when you normally go to bed because that's typically how long if you're ingesting The medicine it will take for it to kind of process through your body um there's a couple of differences in terms of side effects feeling things the Next day can I go to work after things like that so basically we have two ways that people do the medicine um people can either ingest it or they Can spit it out so essentially how it works is it's an oral trophy or a Lozenge basically choki is kind of a fun weird word but uh that's the clinical term you can just call it a law since that's essentially the same thing um so they come in these little squares they are flavored we have a couple different flavor options available so trust me that definitely makes the experience much better um because you put the medicine in your mouth and you have to be sitting upright and you're holding you're basically kind Of biting and chewing down on the little lozenges you want to get them to dissolve as quickly as possible and then Essentially once they've completely disintegrated or dissolved into that liquid saliva without swallowing You're essentially going to be holding all of that saliva in your mouth like a chipmunk like for about 10 15 minutes or so and the

[00:41:12] Jacob: Reason for this is that when the Oral absorption that's primarily where you're going to be getting these psychedelic effects from the medicine it's when you go to actually ingest it That's where you're going to be getting more of the analgesic or the pain relief Benefits so for example we have a lot of

[00:41:30] Megan: Patients that are you know have chronic Pain and a lot of the times chronic pain is accompanied by depression because that pain takes a humongous mental toll

[00:41:41] Jacob: So we see that very often but um

[00:41:44] Megan: Basically you know we aren't prescribing

[00:41:47] Jacob: Ketamine for chronic pain but it is kind Of almost like a byproduct that can help that chronic pain a little bit while

[00:41:55] Megan: It's you know being used for the Treatment of you know the depression or the anxiety essentially but if you Struggle for chronic with chronic pain as I do um then typically those patients will ingest the medicine after about that 10-15 minutes of holding all of that saliva in their mouth and um basically There's a few differences when you ingest the medicine it is going to first It's going to make the duration of how long you're really feeling the effects of the medicine it's probably going to make it last a bit longer so typically a

[00:42:29] Jacob: Session is somewhere around about 45

[00:42:31] Megan: Minutes to usually somewhere around Maybe an hour and a half that's kind of like the ballpark window sometimes it's Right at that 45 minute Mark other times it's you know a little bit longer it just kind of depends on the day the time there's a ton of little variables that go into this but essentially Um if you do ingest it's probably going to be a little bit closer to that hour and a half if you're spitting it out probably will be closer to about that 45 minutes to an hour just to give you kind of an idea now of course not a Perfect science that's just sort of um that you know Baseline of just ballparking it pretty much um so that's the first thing it's gonna make that session last a bit longer the Second is it's probably gonna make you feel like you're going a bit deeper into the experience and the reason for this is that when you're orally absorbing That medicine for that 10 15 minutes you're absorbing about 25 of the total Amount of medicine that you were prescribed by the clinician so it's when You go to ingest it you're absorbing about 10 percent extra which is the reason why of course you know probably going to feel a little bit more but now it's going through your digestive tract your you know in your stomach being metabolized so the reason it can make it Last longer is because now you're getting that second kind of absorption Um but additionally you're also it's going to be getting processed by the liver and the kidneys for up until about three hours so if you ingest us the

[00:44:02] Jacob: Medicine after about the like probably

[00:44:05] Megan: 45 minutes to an hour from ingesting it You can almost get a little bit of a second wave in a sense so even if you're not fully under the experience and You're kind of you know coming out of it sometimes you can get you know a little bit of that second wave where you'll feel you know kind of some of those effects coming back in a little bit so the way that we um well basically that's the second thing with the ingesting the third thing uh is that basically Um it can make you a little bit more susceptible to some of the more not so Wonderful side effects that could include anything from a bit of increased

[00:44:43] Jacob: Nausea to a bit of an upset stomach Um of course you know the prolonged feeling kind of the effects of the medicine longer to kind of really return back to that full Baseline

[00:44:55] Megan: Um as well as some people could get Um a not like a very not wonderful headache other people the next day could feel a bit hungover uh it's not Guaranteed that any of these things will happen it's just something that we have Seen everybody's different some people can ingest you know we prescribe as high

[00:45:15] Jacob: As 800 milligrams per session and we Have some patients that are taking that full 800 ingesting it and they have zero Side effects at the same time you could also have somebody that is uh you know taking what the typical standard doses That people initially start off with which is about 400 milligrams Um like that's what is initially prescribed not initially starting off with but um we have people that will try doing the ingesting at 400 and they get

[00:45:43] Megan: Horrible side effects and so we always In that first month it's really about playing around with it um I typically will recommend if people want to try ingesting to start off doing That at a lower dose so when you start

[00:45:58] Jacob: We start people off between one to 200 Milligrams for the first session that's really a good training wheels kind of just you know like I said getting your feet wet before jumping into the deep end and getting you comfortable and

[00:46:11] Megan: Familiar and a little side note the Reason that we do this is because as you know with the IV if somebody has Never had any kind of experience with ketamine or psychedelics and you know you there's naturally a lot of fear Or misconceptions or stigmas things that have you know you've read or heard about just you know over the years ketamine has been around since this the early 60s

[00:46:36] Jacob: So there's just so much you know history With it and um you know just negative things that are associated with it but when you're First coming to it of course it's natural to have a bit of anxiety or oh my gosh like you're expecting it to be this whole great big thing that's why we start you off very small so you Can really kind of start with those training wheels and then as soon as you feel safe and comfortable can be able to

[00:47:02] Megan: Then increase little by little up until That dosage that the clinician prescribed you so that's kind of how that part of it works but essentially

[00:47:12] Jacob: If you're doing the ingesting method

[00:47:15] Megan: Um typically it just kind of depends if You're going to try to ingest it I recommend trying to do that first at around like the two to three hundred milligrams just kind of see how you feel see how you respond if you don't have any bad side effects by all means you Can absolutely ingest it's totally fine it's totally safe uh it's really just more about personal preference um you guys also sent um started interrupting it you guys also said I forget the name of it's like a for your stomach like if you have upset stomach yeah so you guys also sent that too and that seemed to be to be beneficial I think my first two times I didn't use it because I'm like I think I'm tough or something um but um I was I was honestly fine both times um so the first two times I Didn't Do It Um and then after that I ended up I ended up taking it like just as a little extra thing and I felt that both times I Was I was totally fine and I think that my first maybe half times I spit it out And then the other times I ingested it and I didn't really I mean after the

[00:48:16] Jacob: Session there's like you do feel like a Little bit nauseous of course like your motor functions aren't all there so just even walking to the bathroom is a little tough that sort of thing um but just from my personal experience I didn't feel any insane side effects And I was taking um 400 milligrams was my was my dose for My trip so just yeah like I said that's

[00:48:37] Megan: Very typical starting dosage that I Would say probably percent of new patients that get and They will initially get prescribed to start off there typically um the only reason somebody would get initially starting off or prescribed a

[00:48:52] Jacob: Higher dosage would be there are certain Kinds of medications that can interact with ketamine in the sense not dangerously it's more in the sense that Um you're they make it so like you're what it's doing in your brain is you're not going to be able to feel the full effects of the ketamine as much just because it's kind of blocking it that's things like stimulants like you know any kind of an ADHD medication caffeine Things like that as well as any kind of You know benzodiazepines like anxiety medications sleeping meds um there's a couple other ones as well so that's when you're meeting with that clinician initially they go over that with you and based on medications that You're taking previous experience with ketamine or not they determine um they

[00:49:38] Megan: Essentially customize the dosage that's Going to work the best for you of what they have determined based on that appointment is going to work yeah you do have a good from my experience you have like a good conversation back and forth with somebody um to just kind of like get a base of what you're where you're at with all of it what medications you're on so can you take um can you be on ssris and take these and

[00:50:01] Jacob: Have good benefits yeah But or not the scrivato that I mentioned earlier the FDA approved version of uh Ketamines it's the nasal spray that has to be done in office typically that is actually um done in combination with an oral antidepressant so um what I've seen and actually from my own personal experience when I first came to ketamine therapy I was on uh you Know antidepressants I was on anxiety medication you know sleeping medication just for all the different you know things that I was dealing with and through ketamine uh it has helped me to

[00:50:40] Megan: Get off of basically every single thing That I was on for years and it's an Incredibly common thing you believe it or not um they're like I just the reasons I was

[00:50:53] Jacob: Taking this medication I just I've dealt With it's not a thing like I just I have more personal strength than like I Know that you know it's okay to not be okay it's not always going to be good Or bad it's just this is life it's the management of the Ebbs and flows of things and so it's allowing

[00:51:13] Megan: People to you know have that freedom of Not always when something happens oh I have to go you know reach for a pill and it's that Reliance on an external source That is that we're relying on to feel a certain way and that's really what ketamine is incredible for is it's trying to help us make the shift from You know the external to internal to internal to external and so it's giving us the tool like with our program it

[00:51:40] Jacob: Gives you the tools and you know to Really maximize you know not only just what the ketamine is doing but essentially our goal is to make you your own like pretty much like self-soothe or Self-healer giving you know your own therapist in a sense like just kind of understanding and figuring out that road map itself um I did want to jump really quick back to the nausea medicine so that is something um it's called Zofran or onsenesteron we

[00:52:08] Megan: Send that what to everybody it's

[00:52:10] Jacob: Basically it's just it's it's a Benign medication in your prop you're not going to feel any effects from it um it's really more of just a preventative for any kind of nausea even If you know never get nauseous or anything like that it's just there as you know to take if you would if you want so usually we recommend it in the beginning um you know some people can get really nauseous from this other people have no issues it's just you don't know until you try so that is something that is included with it so I wanted to throw it in yeah that's great I um

[00:52:44] Megan: What is your guys's recommendation again As far as food I remember my first um

[00:52:50] Jacob: 400 milligram session I like I was just Because a lot of this is like the prep work that goes into it's not just the trip it's not just the ketamine therapy like it's the your day your day of the Journaling that you do before um I really wanted to like be really at a good state so I like I went and worked out I went on like a little run at this at this place I really like in Austin Um I was just like listening to good content on my phone I just really wanted to be in this great space one thing I Also did was I was fasting um I you know I don't know if you guys like recommend or not recommended this is just my own personal thing but um I Was on like a just like a Shore it was intermittent so it's probably like 16 to 18 hours of fasting and that was like one of the more profound beautiful

[00:53:36] Megan: Blissful like self-love based trips uh Um for me as far as Academy session so what do you guys normally recommend is as far as food and do you have you heard other people talk about being in a fasted State and having good or bad benefits at all absolutely so I'm happy You brought that up because that's um another thing for like you know when I was earlier talking about doing sessions in the evening um you know and then going into that next day for work you definitely can go to work the next day so long as you know feel good you don't feel like you're still under the influence of it but when you fast there's a few reasons that we always want you to fast it's we require um that you fast for at the very bare minimum at least or like three four hours I would say but Prior to doing the session um the first reason for this is that if you have any Food in your stomach that's you know kind of being processed it can make you much more nauseous um so that's the kind of really the biggest one first uh the second though Is um that anything else that's in your system the ketamine is essentially going to be kind of fighting with to be absorbed so it increases your ability For your body to really absorb the medicine and so the reason why you probably had such a profound and Incredible experience was because you had fasted for that much longer and There was absolutely nothing in your body so one thing that I always will Recommend to people um if say they're doing the sessions typically in the evening and that you know that they've done you replicated the process done everything exactly the same and they're just you know some people can be like it started off really strong and then I kind of started not feeling as much that's you know it could be a few things could be you know tolerance and you know might need to increase that dosage a little bit um but a lot of the times it just I'm like what did you eat that day and they're like well I had a hamburger for lunch but I fasted for a few hours I'm like okay well you know even if you

[00:55:35] Jacob: Fasted for you know those few hours Um it's there can still be like little Remnant bits and pieces that your stomach is you know trying to break down so we will always recommend on the day

[00:55:46] Megan: Of the session to eat very clean light

[00:55:49] Jacob: You know leafy greens grains um just you Know nothing too heavy um additionally we always say that try

[00:55:58] Megan: To avoid liquids for about two hours Prior if of course we know we're not saying you can't have anything um maybe just like you know a couple little sips of water here and there but You know don't be chugging a whole drink of any kind um reason for this is that ketamine is a little bit of a diuretic it can kind of make you feel like you need to pee a bit more um and especially like you mentioned earlier when you know you're coming out of that session and you're still you know kind of you know a bit out of it a bit dizzy it's hard to get to the bathroom yeah so that's actually that's I'm happy you brought that up because um one thing that we do require um in the beginning especially is that You need to have a peer monitor there with you somebody that um basically their job and their role is they're not going to be in the same room as you but pretty much they're going to be handling everything else happening in the house so like say if you have pets or if you have kids or you know whatever it is they're going to be in charge of handling everything else and making sure That you like where you are in you know The room or whatever it is the dark and you know quiet space you're doing that session they're gonna make sure you're not going to be getting interrupted by any kind of external Source Um so that's kind of what their role is so you can really go into that session because any sort of like external thing going on In these sessions it can just pull you out of it because it's a very internal Journey inward when you're lying down you have an eye mask as well as headphones on so that's kind of really putting you just like straight into this um you know kind of internal Journey inward so like if you feel touch if you feel sound anything like that or movement uh that can you know just pull

[00:57:42] Jacob: You out of that internal journey into

[00:57:44] Megan: Back that external environment so that's The role of that peer monitor in that sense but additionally they're there for let's just say if in session you get a Little bit nervous or if you just you want somebody knowing you're not alone it really can be a very uh calming and You know helping with the nerves if you have any nerves but the other biggest real job of that peer monitor is when

[00:58:07] Jacob: You've come out of the session that if You need to get up and use the restroom they're helping you holding you know your arm they're helping you to the rest room because really the biggest safety Concern with this is falling and so that's really kind of the biggest priority is making sure you do have that person there with you to help you to the

[00:58:27] Megan: Restroom but the reason also for that uh You know not having liquids for those couple hours prior is just because again You can make you feel like you need to pee a bit more um and so our goal is by the time you're sitting down and starting the session Ideally you won't really need to be having to get up or do anything for About an hour and a half to two hours give or take um because when you come out of that session essentially you're not done You're not just like getting up and you know going about your day you're going to be sitting there for at least another you know 30 45 minutes just you know a Depending on how long you're still feeling the effects of it but B what we Have you do when you come out of it is uh we call it the post reflection stage so essentially you're sitting there you Can either pull out the journal that you received in the brain box that we send you and start basically just writing About your experience whatever came up for you well you saw how it made you feel you know whatever it is kind of just reflecting on that experience now

[00:59:31] Jacob: Of course sometimes you can be still Heavily feeling the effects of ketamine and I can tell you from my own personal experience trying to sit and write in a

[00:59:41] Megan: Journal coming out of it looked like

[00:59:44] Jacob: Kindergartner just scratch it for some Reason it's because it messes with your motor functions it's like I just I could not write to save my life and so what I recommend for people that if they

[00:59:56] Megan: Experience that is you can you know pull Out your phone and start You Know audio recording yourself additionally in the Uh the member portal that we have um it's both a web app as well as we have a Mobile app that you can access everything directly from your phone so It's super convenient and it has a journaling function in there so you can even you know pull up open that and just Start you know dictating um you know verbally dictating into that journaling entry in there if you want however it is you do it whether it's physically writing you know speaking or dictating just so long as you're reflecting and you know kind of recording getting that experience out the reason for that is that you really

[01:00:40] Jacob: Want to be able to come back and

[01:00:43] Megan: Re-listen or re-read these experiences

[01:00:46] Jacob: Is because you're doing some pre-session Journaling you know there's intentions there's session focuses um that we can you know prompt you with in the portal as you're working through it um so the idea is that as you're kind of Working through doing each of your sessions you're able to really track how you're feeling going into it how you feel when you come out of it typically we'll recommend about maybe the following day or maybe two days after You do the session come back to that journal and re-read what you wrote ask Yourself the question do I still feel the same if so that's okay maybe there's A little bit more there that I need to uncover if not then how do I feel Different and what ways do I feel better that's really going to help you to kind of start piecing together the puzzle

[01:01:32] Megan: Essentially in your journey onto that That new you is that BetterU yeah Yeah I mean I will say too from my experience I feel like you guys did a really great job at the journal prompts I really like the journal problems um I found myself I mean I'm I'm a writer in general I Like writing a lot already so maybe it was like more natural to me but man I felt like once I started going like you know you answer the first question and you're like kind of thinking about it okay cool and you use you know get some Stuff out and then you keep going I mean I found myself just lightening fingers on my keyboard I was like oh I really like these prompts these are really cool Um so yeah it really did and it was Really cool to like realize how much I wrote or like allowing myself to feel those things that I wrote out um another thing so this was actually a question that I had um for I forget maybe it was Brendan Brenda I Talked to somebody else yeah so I talked to him one of my main questions was okay so this was before my first Session I was like okay so I'm gonna write this journal prompt stuff you know this is things that come up maybe I'm like maybe I am or I am not aware of these certain things these certain things that are that are you know plaguing me inside here's why I'm why I'm doing this in the first place um I asked him I'm like so while I'm under the session am I supposed to attack these things that I wrote about am I supposed to try to intentionally bring those up I was very like curious about that and he was like no don't worry about it don't try to control it and um I was I was confused At first like whoa how does it make sense that I'm bringing these things up and then they're getting solved if I'm like you know like what Basically what does the trip have to do with these things that are apparently harming me or you know things that I Journal about um and I found that to be very interesting if you can go to that so basically like you know how does how does the stuff you're journaling about in the trip like what do those have to do with each other I guess even more broadly how the

[01:03:31] Jacob: Heck does tripping on ketamine in you

[01:03:34] Megan: Know comfortable safe environment how Does that heal our depression you know how does that great question so that's actually believe it or not one of the biggest things that I would say most patients struggle with it's the Art of Letting Go and so the whole idea with This is that I'll give you an analogy for kind of how to essentially you want To approach the session so before you go into it the reason we have you doing that pre-session journaling setting and attention you know writing out answering some of those questions is essentially the idea of what we're trying to do is We're trying to get whatever it is that's been going on in your mind whatever you've been thinking whatever you've been feeling these are just you don't absolutely have to use those things that are in there they're merely just there as suggestions if you don't Really know where to start like I said you can really kind of customize this Treatment for what you need but typically most people are like I've never drawn on my life like I don't know where to start like what do I write about like hi like welcome to my inner Like mind or something right like people just don't know where to start so that's why we give you those prompts and those tools to utilize if you need a bit More of that guidance but the idea is essentially to just whatever it is that You're feeling I always recommend people give yourself even if you don't use all

[01:04:53] Jacob: Of it give yourself like about a 30 Minute window prior to when you're going to start the session to sit down and you Know write answer some of these Journal prompts set your intentions clear out The space in your mind think of your mind as kind of like a hard drive right we're trying when your mind when there's too many different programs or software or files on the computer it starts short Circuiting it starts overheating it starts slowing down it's not functioning or firing properly so the whole idea is

[01:05:24] Megan: That in order to get the like prepping The computer to really kind of be able to work you know and have the software work efficiently or put like you know effectively I guess um as you're trying to clear out some of that space on the hard drive so you know that's essentially you know when you're writing these things out you're getting it out of your mind so it can live somewhere else outside of you because oftentimes when we have all of these Different thoughts and feelings smiling around inside of us we can't really make sense as to you know what things connect

[01:05:58] Jacob: Or like why I like there's the three Things there's the what why and the where a lot of the times we'll only have one or two out of the three but if we don't have all three of the pieces for whatever a problem is then that's where We can start to get you know overwhelmed trying to figure it out and the best way

[01:06:16] Megan: For our brains to be able to articulate

[01:06:20] Jacob: What our thoughts and our emotions are

[01:06:23] Megan: Trying to you know say essentially is

[01:06:25] Jacob: Really through physically writing with a Pen and paper and I think the reason for this is that you know when you're when you're texting or when you're typing on a computer even just talking you can you Know you're able to do those things much faster you can add fillers you can kind of tend to you know go off down rabbit holes as I tend to do often but when you're physically writing pen to paper you have you're thinking about What you're writing every word that you're writing down you're not just scribbling down every little thing because it would take forever to write All of that so it's kind of like a way of filtering out all of that excess noise and just really getting out the True thoughts and feelings that you're experiencing and so the idea of the Pre-session journaling is to really just clear your mind clear out that mental Space so you can go into the session feeling lighter and not having all of That information kind of circling around because the more that you're thinking About it or it's you know you're experiencing it the harder it's going to be for you to really be able to essentially let go and you know not be

[01:07:35] Megan: You know so kind of just like engulfed Or encompassed in all of that chaos going on in that monkey mind so the idea Is you know do the journaling get this stuff out of your mind clear your head uh one of the most powerful things to do prior to a session is some you know Light breath work it's incredible for just clearing out that you know the last minute things spiraling around your mind or you know letting go of some tension and just kind of shaking out any little last bits of anxiety it's incredible just kind of helps you to drop right into that state you want to be in going into it so after you do the Journal you've set the intentions the idea is to let all of it Go clear your Mind take some deep breaths and essentially just sort of surrender into

[01:08:21] Jacob: The experience so yeah exactly and we Have those few mantras we have you know the breathe the trust let go and be open Right so trusting or reading of course Connecting to your breath um you know trust the experience trust yourself trust the medicine uh you Know be um let go let go of any Expectations that you might have anything that you want to get out of This anything that you're trying to work on just letting go of all of that and then the last being open being open to a New experience letting whatever it is gonna have that happens happen and not

[01:09:00] Megan: Closing off from it and so that's kind Of the mantras that we always say to repeat to yourself before going into it and so when you then go into the session

[01:09:09] Jacob: This is the analogy I always give to

[01:09:12] Megan: Patients is imagine that you are in a Car and um essentially the music that you're listening to these pre-curated playlists That we have created and all of that is you know in the so good too they're so good I love them thank you thank you we really spent a lot of time making sure That what we what we end there um it's very thoughtful and was going to be able to deliver a certain kind of experience so basically the music aside from the Medicine itself I would say the music is probably the Most important aspect of the session because essentially that music is going To be the driver of the car the music is Responsible for navigating you from point A to point B getting you from you Know again same thing from point A to point B so the music is the driver of

[01:10:03] Jacob: The car you essentially want to be the Passenger that's you know sitting in the car looking out the window hearing the music and kind of just observing and

[01:10:13] Megan: Experiencing the journey basically

[01:10:16] Jacob: And not trying to navigate or backseat Drive like oh no you were supposed to turn left here like you were supposed to go there and it's like no like they Got this they got GPS like the music it's handling it like it's got you covered you don't need to worry about this right and so that's a really huge Thing that a lot of people really struggle with is you know especially having gone through your entire life always having to try to be in that essentially like state of control so that's really where ketamine is Incredible for helping us with depression and with anxiety because oftentimes what happens is when certain

[01:10:53] Megan: Things emotions thoughts just you know

[01:10:55] Jacob: Trauma pain when things come up and when We start dealing with them it makes us feel like we are out of control because things we're feeling these things are happening we're thinking certain things that we're like oh my gosh like what's going on this is too much and uh Like I don't know what's going on with me right and so that makes us naturally

[01:11:17] Megan: Want to try to control ourselves even More and push those feelings down and get back into that seat of control and So you know especially a lot of you know kind of type A personalities it's like This is how I work like when I'm not in

[01:11:32] Jacob: Control I freak out and so it's Definitely harder I would say for those people but it's a learned practice the more that you can get comfortable

[01:11:42] Megan: And essentially really letting go and

[01:11:45] Jacob: Surrendering not trying like letting the Experience kind of take you and show you what it's trying to show you like I was if you remember earlier psychedelics they tend to give us what we need not necessarily what we want and we have to Allow it to show us and guide us so that Like a lot of the times I'll seriously be talking to patients and they're like I was going through this you know a session and this thing came up and I was At first you know I was scared or I was trying to like you know go away for it or this other thing came up that I had it was an intention or was something that I had wanted to come up and I was trying to like run towards it when I did That then what started happening is you're trying to go back in getting into that conscious mind the whole idea with

[01:12:32] Megan: These sessions is to quiet down and kind Of separate yourself from that conscious mind so you can dive into that subconscious and just see what it's what You're holding on to what's actually happening inside of you um and so that's really where when how it helps with the depression and anxiety Is that it allows us to let go of that

[01:12:56] Jacob: Seat of control realizing that

[01:12:59] Megan: Everything is going to be okay I don't

[01:13:02] Jacob: Have to be in control of everything in Order to you know feel a certain way in Fact the more that I am trying to be in

[01:13:11] Megan: Control the less that I am able to

[01:13:13] Jacob: Actually get to be my most authentic Self and um it's trust me it took me some time to You know kind of really be able to get to that point but like I said it's something that gets easier and better with the more and more practice that you do so uh definitely something

[01:13:34] Megan: That people are gonna have some trouble With but uh we're here to kind of help You and guide you as you go through the Journey yeah huge I mean that was Something for me is like the constant you know the Mantra of allow except okay It's fine you know I mean and it's I feel like that is such an Ultimate key with all of this because it actually kind of ends up correlating to the rest of your life you know where I was talking about you know I get self-conscious or I wish I wasn't like this it's like you are like this it's okay too you know like you're not an awful but it doesn't mean this you know whatever this allowing I think that Um all the preparation and the you know with psychedelic therapy psychedelics in general the biggest thing I mean the you know science tells us that the experience tells us this anything that doesn't even have to do with therapy anything about psychedelics you what you'll hear constantly is set and setting and that is obviously your environment um you know your diet mentally and And like you know the things you're listening to that day the um you know like avoid the news that day that sort of thing the environment being set Up in a way and you check all these boxes and okay I did my journaling Um you know I made my bed before I laid in it I'm in a safe space I trust That I have these two hours I put my phone in airplane mode nobody's gonna knock on the door like you set your environment up to where you can contain continuously check back in because sometimes you get you know just to reuse your car analogy like sometimes the music takes you on like a dirt road you know and you're like oh this is okay is this and I find myself yeah I find myself asking like is this too much and then like I would go back again to like because you know when you when you're under the session there is Um you know to some extent some awareness of your body and these sorts of things too so I could go check in okay I'm still in my bed yeah I got the Blindfold on yeah I'm still listening to music okay I'm gonna trust that these people like set me up for Success I'm gonna trust the journaling I did put me in a safe you know mental environment Um I know I locked the door for sure before I did this so there's like this checking in of can I trust this can I Accept this can I allow this yep okay I'm still good and then you know within 20 seconds you forgot where you were even just kind of like tensing up about for it for a minute you know and it's just it's huge because I feel like you'll hear it a lot this is something I used to say often was I'm a control person I like to be in control you know I was like the typical Person who like you go to a restaurant and like I don't have my back to the door I don't sit with my back to the door like those sorts of things and you think that you're making your life better and freeing yourself more by trying to control it all the time but there's really a lot of um overlay with

[01:16:19] Jacob: This allowing during the session that Comes into play in your everyday life and I found that to be a huge profound thing for me was this it's okay to not have control of everything all the time you're going to be fine allow it accept it you know so that's that might be something other people have come up is this um you know you don't have to control though oh absolutely one of the things I love telling people is that you

[01:16:42] Megan: Know the universe it's got a mind of Its own right it's gonna do its thing no matter what you like what you try to do Or what you try to control essentially like all that any of us have any real

[01:16:54] Jacob: Control over is our ourselves the way That we react the way that we respond to things anything outside of us we can try To think or you know trick ourselves into believing we have control over it but the reality is that we have no Control it's you know we're just we're kidding ourselves into there's freedom in that too yeah there's so much freedom and you know it's the idea I have this Um this quote that I really do live by And that's that I think that in life it's about 10 of what happens to you and

[01:17:28] Megan: 90 how you react or respond to things

[01:17:31] Jacob: Because like I said things are just Gonna happen without you know you could not have prepared for it there's absolutely nothing that you could have done to avoid it or change it just That's kind of the way of the world right the world it's got a mind of its own it's gonna keep on spinning so why get out and push right it's gonna keep doing its own thing you don't need to get out there and be trying to you know move mountains it's essentially everything it's have having a trust in

[01:17:58] Megan: That knowing everything has a reason a Purpose whether we know what that reason or purpose is in the moment oftentimes it's the kind of thing where

[01:18:10] Jacob: Uh in it's only really in you know

[01:18:13] Megan: Hindsight that you can see that okay the Reason when this happened the reason that this didn't work out was because you know down the road I was supposed to You know do this or go this way and if I Had gone that way I would not have gone This way and so it's of course in the Moment when we're trying to do something and it's not working out or you know experiencing friction um it's of course frustrating and We're like why isn't this working like I've put everything into this is what I'm supposed to be doing but it's Really just you know kind of accepting that okay like I might not know the

[01:18:51] Jacob: Reason yet but it will reveal itself in Time how much time who knows it could be You know a day a week could be a couple of years it's just it's about really trusting that everything

[01:19:03] Megan: Works itself out in some way shape or Form that you know we will be okay and Another thing too I actually wanted to touch on that I loved that you brought up is that when you were in that session and all of a sudden you could kind of feel some of that little bit of tension or that anxiety of like oh no kind Of bubbling to the surface um that's a huge thing that we always will tell people if ever at any point in

[01:19:28] Jacob: A session you feel overwhelmed you feel Nervous you feel like oh my gosh like this is too much don't ever try to take The eye mask or the head phones off really I mean you could take the headphones off if the music is too much And just kind of like you know but don't Take that eye mask off the reason for this is that when you are under the influence of the medicine of course you know you're in this whole experience and it's you know the unnormal but when You're taking that eye mask off or the headphones you essentially like what you're trying to do is you're trying to get back into that normal where you are comfortable or you're not experiencing all of this stuff but the problem is that because you're still under the effects of the medicine your

[01:20:14] Megan: Normal is going to be distorted and very Unnormal so that can actually make you have more anxiety more um you know kind Of worked up and so really you know it's Of course that's our first Natural Instinct because we want to just oh my gosh this is too much like I need to get out of it but you know it's not like a VR headset where you take it off and you're out of the experience right it's like no this is like you know a medicine

[01:20:40] Jacob: That you have taken you're still under The effects of it so it's very important to just be like you know conscious and Aware of that and so the way in which to Do it is if you start feeling that anxiety coming up in that session is Essentially just connecting to your breath your breath is going to be your Best anchor for you know kind of reconnecting to your body remembering That you know you are safe you are okay

[01:21:07] Megan: And this is all and this is all

[01:21:10] Jacob: Temporary this too shall pass and I'll Usually say you know take one hand put it over your heart one hand to put it over your stomach and as long as you can Feel the rise and fall as long as you're breathing you are safe and you are okay And um I think that like I've had a lot

[01:21:27] Megan: Of people that I've worked with that Um you know they had a couple of those sessions where they were really overwhelmed it was a lot and they were like oh my gosh like I was kind of freaking out a little bit and so after me getting you know this is kind of like some of the calls that I get to do with patients is you know kind of helping and walking them through these kind of bits of experiences and what they've come back to me and they're like yeah I had something that was coming back up again a little bit and I tried That and you know of course in my mind I Was like oh there's no way that's going to work like just breathing like everybody tells me to breathe like that's not gonna make me feel better but believe it or not just feeling trusting That you know the medicine trusting that you are safe you are okay and just reconnecting to that breath they're like I was really able to Anchor myself back Knowing that like I was okay you know as Long as I'm breathing I am all right and they were able to then like you said after you know maybe a couple of minutes or so kind of catching that breath Calming back down and they were able to then you know go on with that session and so that's kind of how uh You know of course not every session is always going to be sunshines and rainbows a lot of the times the things that we are holding on to you know our pain our trauma these things it's Meant to kind of bring these things to the surface but like I said it's allowing you to be able to kind of confront these things without that same

[01:22:56] Jacob: Emotional uh like toll basically so that Doesn't mean that there's not going to be any kind of emotional toll with it just means it's not going to be at the same level that you know in a normal Setting of just trying to talk about it where you're not even able to like you know think about it without completely like shutting down so that's kind of like the difference of it's allowing us to start in real time processing and

[01:23:22] Megan: Working through these things instead of Just kind of it comes up and you know we Retreat or we back down and so that's really how it's allowing us to face These things process it work through it so that we can all of a sudden let go of It and before three of it right it's if it's a skeleton in the closet it can always come back and get us at any time until you know we've gone in and you Know we've taken a big hammer to the skeleton and all of a sudden it's in pieces and bye you're gone like you're I don't have to worry about you anymore and that is kind of how ketamine therapy Works with that anxiety and the depression it's giving people the Ability to instead of like traditional antidepressants or you know anxiety medications or all of these things they're designed to essentially just Kind of like turn the volume down on all of these things that we're experiencing and it's kind of just like a almost avoidance mechanism of oh gosh this is

[01:24:21] Jacob: Bubbling to the surface okay like let's Quiet that back down and you know avoid it's not dealing with it and that's

[01:24:28] Megan: Why people then become Reliant and Dependent on these medications and can find themselves being on them for you know many years and are unable to ever get off of them because as soon as they start trying to all of those emotions Those things they've been there the whole time you've just been suppressing it so now when you start trying to come off of it naturally you're going to be like oh my gosh I'm so overwhelmed this is too much like I can't deal with this so this is kind of really where it helps You to actually deal with these things so that you can let go and move on and

[01:25:02] Jacob: Essentially ultimately be free yes yeah Be free indeed that's I love that saying that's a huge thing that's like you feel free of the things that you thought you needed to do or have or hold on into for So long they become you know I was using the analogy yesterday when we talked about like the armor we put on you know I think a lot of us um whether we have something we consider trauma or not through experiences through life through you know happenstance through circumstance we put on these versions

[01:25:29] Megan: Of ourselves we harden up we shape up We put on Armor to protect ourselves from them ever happening again but through a lot of this healing real healing not just like you know putting It putting a muzzle on something was that still has teeth there is

[01:25:45] Jacob: Um I don't know there's a freedom of Allowing it and allowing it to be there and the sessions definitely do that I'll say sorry about the noise for any listeners and Megan it sounds like they're building battle robots outside of my apartment here um but so one question that came up Um I don't know how to word this I hope I'm not being insensitive by saying it but it's something that I went through to um you know even years ago like Before I really before I had even done it like any sort of psychedelics or Doven really heavily into like breath work or um I mean even like um smoking a lot of cannabis back in the day um what do you have to say about people who are afraid that they might like have

[01:26:25] Megan: A um like psychological break if they're Afraid that they might like oh this is the thing like I know I've always been crazy and this is what's going to push me over I think that's something we really alienate ourselves with we think that we're really alone with that but the more and more I talk to people the more and more I really assess my own experience I think that's a pretty common thing correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know if you've heard this from other people like we're afraid like oh I can't do psychedelics because it's gonna like break my mind and I'll never come back down you know we're afraid of cutting that tether into the great Abyss so have you have you had experience um talking with people about this like well what if I go crazy what's your response to that absolutely That's a huge thing believe it or not like I said uh the just you know Society There's been so many horror stories out there and you know so many things that they've been trying to you know put into our minds for years of oh you know psychedelics they're gonna make you go crazy and lose your mind but believe it or not it's actually the things like they got it backwards essentially the things that they told us are safe and are going to heal us are making us go crazy and it's killing us and the things that they told us were going to make us lose our minds and go crazy are The things that are actually healing us and helping us so they just they got It backwards they just you gotta flip that script and it's the kind of thing where you know it really what it boils down to is being open-minded right like You never know if something is truly going to work for you or not until you Are open to give it a try right and so Like I have a ton of friends still that you know we've been doing this for the basically like past two and a half years and like I'm like I know that if they

[01:28:06] Jacob: Would you know try this that it would Help them astronomically I'm like I could just I could feel it like almost in my bones but it's the kind of thing where you know you can't push somebody towards this if they are adamant about Not doing it and they're you know set in stone you kind of have to allow like what makes this effective is people need to kind of come to it on their own and The way that you can almost you know kind of get them there a lot of the times is really just through consumer and customer education right learning about what it is you know essentially changing the you know the associations The things that you when you hear the word ketamine you know a couple years Back the first things people's minds would go to is you know a horse tranquilizer or you know like just whatever it was right those are just the first things and you know now when

[01:29:00] Megan: People hear it just more much more

[01:29:02] Jacob: Commonly people are like oh like that Healed like my mom or my brother or like a cousin or like that you know changed My life or you know just it's a different Association to things and that's basically just from knowledge and understanding and education about it

[01:29:20] Megan: Um I would say that there definitely are And this is something that is uh it's screened for when you're first going through and meeting with the clinician you know they're asking you they're essentially getting it's like when you go to a doctor um you know for like a checkup or something they have you fill out all of that intake paperwork you know answering you know a bunch of questions giving a bit of like a medical history it's like you know establishing care with somebody that's basically what you fill out a Bunch of paperwork in advance we're looking at that screening through it and if you've answered the questions of like if you have any kind of a history of Um you know like schizophrenia or you know psychosis or um certain in certain cases um you know extreme versions of you know like bipolar like just certain kinds of mental disorders those definitely are

[01:30:09] Jacob: Things that are contraindications that ketamine absolutely could Um you know kind of put somebody over the edge for so it's something that you Know we will never prescribe like the clinicians but first we're going through that first layer going through the paperwork then when they meet with the clinician it's kind of like a second round of ensuring that there is none of That kind of history and if there is then you know making sure or clearing it

[01:30:36] Megan: With whoever their um you know Psychiatric professional is and just ensuring the safety because the we're

[01:30:44] Jacob: Never going to do anything that is going To like our goal here is to heal not harm and we're never going to do anything that could potentially put somebody in a situation of harm and Um so we screen for that but it's really more of you know any kind of those sort of uh you know psychiatric um you know mental disorders things like That those are the ones that are a little bit more like if there is any real room for concern of It kind of you Know like flipping a switch and then you know kind of not being able to you know get back to that stability it's more of those things I would say in general if it's you know just somebody normal that doesn't have a history of you know any kind of you know mental disorder in that sense then it Really just is more of a matter of that Kind of getting back to that idea of control right the idea of losing control

[01:31:39] Megan: And not knowing what's going on Especially you know in a side of psychedelic experience that is Terrifying because you're like oh my gosh like what's gonna happen what's gonna come up I've worked so hard to you Know keep my demons at bay or you know like just like avoided this because I'm Afraid of what's gonna happen it's most of it really is just it's fear right it's fear of you know the loss of Control or fear of what's gonna happen like it's you know people like I said It's you work so hard to have this armor

[01:32:13] Jacob: Put on this mask that protects you Essentially from any kind of external threat and you know not know knowing Essentially that you know maybe even knowing that sometimes the biggest threat is actually inside of the armor It's in our minds and you know that can Be a hard concept I think for a lot of people to kind of you know to swallow is that oh like wow like I could put up all Of this armor as much as I want but like My mind it's you know like I'm still constantly battling that and there's only so much I can do so it's you know It's up to each individual person I think um you know some people as much as we would want them to try it or think that it would help them you know we can't push them that's going to do the opposite effect right and so just Making sure that you know if somebody is interested or if they're curious um you know then you know give them some more information but it's you know not trying to push or pressure people into doing it because if you do that and they End up do trying it going into it like When you were saying earlier the set and setting it's not only just the physical set and setting that you're in

[01:33:25] Megan: It's the mindset you're in going into it And if you're going into this feeling closed off and like this isn't going to work this is going to be XYZ just like

[01:33:35] Jacob: With any kind of experience in life the

[01:33:38] Megan: Expectations or preconceived notions That or you know you go into any kind of Experience with is more likely than not going to be the outcome right if you go into a show and you're like this is gonna suck like I hate these people like I'm not going to have a good time more Often times than not that's probably going to be you'll find ways to make that true you know just to reassure yourself so exactly you're looking for any little pieces of proof so to speak To kind of validate your claim of I told You this wasn't going to work and then you know kind of just going even so much further the other way so it's you know of course we wish everybody in the world could try at least one ketamine therapy session I think the world would be a much different place but uh we just have to let everybody come to it theirself and I think that's right yeah and Like you said I mean you guys do screen for it I remember the initial um you guys have you have someone have a conversation with us and you go over like um I think there's like a question there and stuff like that so I feel like you guys do it do a good job at that um so that's all like that's all established before this and this is like maybe if you're if you don't know if you fall into this bar ballpark I mean it's worth it's worth a conversation like maybe you can have a conversation with somebody from BetterU and they'll um you know they'll give you more reassurance so they'll of them maybe they'll tell you like maybe this isn't for you at this time or whatever it is but it's certainly worth the conversation I will also reiterate you guys cover all this like so all this I feel like so far what we've talked about maybe it seems like a lot like it's like how am I going to remember all this and whatever and this is all covered like this is all part of the it's all on Like the portal um they cover this you have conversations with people from BetterU um this is like you don't have to remember literally any of this is just like good information but it's all covered again in every single session has like a step-by-step it's like you click on the thing this is your first session here's your focus and you just I mean read it and it tells you exactly what to do exactly what to think exactly how to prepare yourself I mean I just Want to reiterate you don't have to remember this seems like probably a lot for people who are maybe um wondering about ketamine therapy but you guys do a great job of covering all these bases not giving too much information like providing all the right you know ins and Out for all of this um yeah so uh okay so I did want to Um you'll notice my air conditioner turned on now it's even more loud it's probably just distracting to me but

[01:36:04] Jacob: Um the sides of you mentioned like

[01:36:11] Megan: Our story you know things that happen to Us they end up in retrospect we can kind Of see how they lead us you know they kind of lead us to our version of the water to drink from in the end you know that's been a lot of thing on this podcast for me personally um I wouldn't have this huge mental health focus and like have these sorts of conversations if I didn't have the history that I had you know I had like a what I would say a turbulent childhood I had like some tough teenage years and Having to heal all of those things and having to like learn about all this stuff on the other side now I'm in a position where I can speak about these things freely I can you know heal myself And talk about it and help other people I can I'm able to offer this space that

[01:36:55] Jacob: If I hadn't gone through those things I don't think that would have that opportun that opportunity um and this is like for your personal story Megan this is Um I would love to get into that because you know you are in this position where when that thing happened here you probably never saw your yourself here you know being like a you know a therapist for ketamine you know so Um let's explore so like how did you like

[01:37:23] Megan: Why would you need ketamine therapy you know what happened in your life to lead you down to where you are absolutely and I sort of like I told you yesterday I said you know hold on to your seats because it's definitely uh very out there it's the last possible thing you'll probably ever you know guess just you know by looking at me or You know hearing me talk it's so you're like wait hold on what like I need to hear that one more time so uh I'll try To you know kind of go through from like the beginning of sort of what happened in a little bit of just kind of the Journey of then what eventually essentially kind of led me to you know kind of my like real rock bottom and then when I found ketamine and kind of like how it's all sort of come full circle for me so uh basically uh

[01:38:09] Jacob: Your thing Um so basically when I was 19 years old Um I was well so when I was 15 years old

[01:38:27] Megan: Actually I got discovered uh to be a

[01:38:29] Jacob: Model and I started getting Um more and more into it getting it was getting more and more serious um you know I committed to a bunch of colleges was good to go um you know to Boulder and Colorado ended up deferring a year and uh was Traveling the world internationally traveling all over different countries and um and then came back home uh to Southern California in Orange County which is where I was born and raised um but was in LA for you know the a few Months just kind of trying to regroup and you know getting ready to then go back and start you know traveling much more and so at that point it was you know over a year from when I had initially deferred and I ended up deciding that you know since this modeling was really taking off that I Was this was going to be my path this was going to be what I was gonna do and so decided to not go to college and um Probably within a couple months of making that decision and like I said was you know kind of laying the groundwork for you know then going back out and Traveling to a whole bunch more places and like I said the modeling it was really taking off you know it was like in New York Fashion Week you know Paris like London Barcelona Australia it's all

[01:39:45] Megan: Over the place and um so basically when I was in LA I was at a nightclub and I Hate nightclubs they're not fun you can't talk to people it's not I don't really enjoy them but it was a one of my Good friends of the time it was their birthday and they're like hey you have to come like you have to celebrate me and I'm like okay fine so I went with

[01:40:06] Jacob: Them and uh basically long story short

[01:40:09] Megan: Uh I got shot in that nightclub there Was a um I'm not going to mention his name but there is a very not so good uh like Gangster that just happened to be there because another person was performing and it was just the venue that night

[01:40:27] Jacob: Was absolutely insane and uh they were Trying to essentially assassinate this person I had no idea who he was uh Before this but apparently he was standing right behind me I mean I didn't Know who he was I wouldn't have recognized nothing I didn't even know he was standing behind me so it was basically they were trying to assassinate him and shoot him and uh I

[01:40:51] Megan: Ended up taking a bullet and Um of course when it happened I you know The I thought they were fireworks going off like I was so naive I've never heard of gunshot before like and I was just like wait what but the chaos and um you Know just the Panic the adrenaline started coursing through my body and Um so I actually did like I felt some kind of an initial burning sensation but I didn't necessarily even realize that I had been shot until believe it or not I

[01:41:20] Jacob: Was in the ambulance so I somehow

[01:41:23] Megan: Managed to get within a few minutes from When the gunshots rang out from inside to the outside I got across the

[01:41:31] Jacob: Street and then like on the other side

[01:41:34] Megan: Of the street pretty much and uh it Wasn't until then one of my friend who bought me out was like it was a little like circle of blood on your shorts and I'm like what like fine I probably just banged into something he's like oh that's just go get you checked out so walked me over to one of you know the cop cars they had all these shotguns pointing at it of like the entrance to the club everybody's having to come out with their hands out somehow I avoided all of that I just I got out immediately and um was waiting for an Ambulance by the cop car and it wasn't until I was in that ambulance that um They told me they're like oh we have an abrasion on the front left hip and I'm like what does that mean like I don't know what that means right and I'm like does that mean like I've been shot and they didn't say yes and they didn't say no so of course that Panic naturally Starts to you know kind of roll in a bit

[01:42:25] Jacob: Um basically it looked like there was a Little kind of like thing Point like poking out of the skin on my front left Hip and um so basically like you know they took the shorts off they're trying to like look at it and see what's going on you know putting me on an IV and at that point that was when it kind of started sinking in they're like oh my God like I have been shot like are you What like just trying to process that information was you know naturally kind Of just like I don't even know what to do with that just complete shock still but that's really when the pain started coming in so anyways long story short Um the bullet it traveled about eight inches through my body it entered about Um right above my left hip and it was Very narrow so it like was kind of going like this all the way through my body

[01:43:15] Megan: And it missed every single important you Know organ um it missed my kidneys reproductive system any like my spine I mean by I'm Talking millimeters if I had been sitting any different kind of Direction I Would either be paralyzed quadriplegic

[01:43:31] Jacob: Or dead and I honestly shouldn't be Here today I shouldn't have any kind of quality of life but the way in which

[01:43:39] Megan: That it went through me it every single Person in the emergency room was like you had somebody looking out over like over you so it wasn't until like

[01:43:49] Jacob: About a month after this all happened I Was just dealing with the physical sensations of everything but my mind it Was just too much for my brain to be able to process and so mentally it was like you know nothing had happened and it wasn't until about a month after I went on uh this show where they made

[01:44:07] Megan: This like visual Recreation of how the Bullet went through me and how close it was they did this based on all of the scans and you know the Imaging they did and the emergency room that night and it wasn't until I saw that my mind was like oh my gosh like that is me Like I you know was this close like you Know I shouldn't be here I shouldn't be alive I shouldn't be able to even you know walk let alone function and you Know so of course when I saw that's really when the downward spiral began and unfortunately I had I was seeing a Psychiatrist at that time that put me on like 12 different kinds of medications all counteracting the side effects from one another there's probably like eight

[01:44:50] Jacob: To nine months of time like within about A month or so after getting shot that like I just don't really remember because I was on so many different kinds of medications and then you know of course dealing with all of that um you know the modeling it just I was in certain ways honestly just kind of Out of my mind a little bit right like I just didn't know what was up what was down I couldn't make sense of anything I didn't know what to do it just kind of stopped me in my tracks and so I ended

[01:45:18] Megan: Up having to decide about a year after That okay like I was gonna you know stop And you know give up modeling just because I couldn't you know get myself together and so I then threw myself into A completely different industry like a full 180 and uh then kind of was just Distracting myself like in throwing myself completely in that for the next like four or five years or so and Um you know it was sort of the thing where it gave me that purpose back of some something you know to do to work towards but then after about like I said

[01:45:51] Jacob: Four or five years that kind of started Um you know had a not so great ending at the same time um you know had a real like my first real relationship kind of ending very

[01:46:03] Megan: Poorly and then my idea was essentially That okay like I'm gonna let the rest of uh you know 2019 kind of just gonna you Know try to figure out what's next and then very beginning of 2020 I am gonna Dive Right In and I'm gonna figure out what's next then of course we get Coveted and the world shuts down and so that kind of puts throws a wrench in everything so then now I end up moving Back with my parents to Orange County so first it was like I lost my like professional purpose then like the Romantic then my last quite a sense of Freedom since when I had initially moved away from home so at that point that's really when I hit my real rock bottom And I was there for a pretty good amount of time where I Was just not really doing anything talking to anybody kind of just watching TV by myself you know I was like asleep For most of the day awake for most of the night just kind of like was really just not in a good space and uh I was Like that for I probably I'd say like I Don't know maybe six months seven months eight almost and then kind of started Coming out of it just a little bit um I had started seeing a therapist and that kind of seemed to help and all of a sudden I kind of had this little like realization that like okay like I need To you know take responsibility for you know my life or like this like you know it's up to me I can't keep blaming things but I was still you know definitely struggling so then that's kind of the point of where I then found Ketamine therapy and I'm not kidding you within probably the fur it like I said It definitely took me a few months in the beginning to really kind of you know consistently doing like the twice a week program really breaking up all of the Damaged Pathways in my brains and like unlearning and undoing all of the things That you know this all of these different you know the original Source the trauma um like once I hit that Rock Bottom it's like everything that I had been kind of avoiding all just came crashing back Down on me on top of all of the other things that had kind of since occurred just in me trying to run away from that initial trauma distracting myself to these other things so when it all came crashing down you know it was like that was real rock bottom and I Definitely had to kind of get to this like little bit of a certain level of like okay like I am gonna choose to get

[01:48:30] Jacob: Help like I can't keep living like This um so it was once I made that decision that I then you know started talking therapy but then found ketamine therapy

[01:48:41] Megan: About I'd say maybe like two months or So after I started seeing that therapist when I had that okay I need like I'm Choosing me I'm choosing to you know get help and I don't want to be stuck in this any longer I can't live like this and uh that was a really scary time Because I have never in my entire life ever considered harming myself Hurting myself but I got to the point in My life like I'm just too much of a chicken like that would never happen I just couldn't even conceive it but I got to a point in myself where I was so sad

[01:49:15] Jacob: And in so much internal turmoil that I

[01:49:18] Megan: Could understand the level of pain and

[01:49:21] Jacob: Sadness that people get to the point

[01:49:24] Megan: Where they are thinking about suicide Like thinking that this is my only way forward and so that is really honestly What scared me into like okay I need to Do something like this is you know that's a slippery slow debt slippery slope down so basically within a couple Of months of starting ketamine therapy as well and the same combination of doing the talk therapy all of a sudden I

[01:49:51] Jacob: Just I mean don't get me wrong it Definitely still took me a lot of you know work and you know kind of things having to process but it was insane the

[01:50:01] Megan: Amount of progress I started making and Just in the amount of time that I had Started it right like it took like I said those few months to kind of really get to that uh you know full neurobiological reset but once I was Able to get there all of a sudden it was like I when things would happen or come up That normally would have you know set me down you know a spiral that I you know Would then get lost in for a little while instead it was now like when

[01:50:30] Jacob: Things would happen I was able to kind Of deal with it and process it knowing that I'm going to be okay and in all of This whole journey I really kind of came to realize that and I would say this to myself you know every day even though I did not believe it for a while until the point of you know after a few months started to believe it and that is that I'm stronger than I think I am I can handle more than I thought I could and I got this it's all it's gonna be Okay it'll all work itself out and also It's okay to not be okay in fact we Actually have to not be okay sometimes so that we can be okay and appreciate those times and Um you know just kind of allowing myself to similar to you feeling and

[01:51:15] Megan: Experiencing letting this pain in no Matter how much I did it want to deal with it as soon as I let it in then it Couldn't control me anymore it didn't have that same power that I was running from and you know then of course you Know when you know starting BetterU that was really when I was able to you know start you know with the ketamine and uh have been you know building this

[01:51:39] Jacob: Company every single day since and uh You know of course my roles have changed as we've been like I said earlier building and growing more and more but now to the point of kind of like what I was mentioning what I do today is I'm

[01:51:54] Megan: Working with patients I'm talking with them when they are at that Rock Bottom Place in themselves when they're first coming to this treatment you know for whatever the reason is whatever their experiences whatever they've gone through whatever pain trauma everybody has a different and unique

[01:52:11] Jacob: Experience and what I'm able to do now And this is kind of how it's come full circle for me is that I'm able to you Know I will never pretend I know exactly what it is that you're going through what your experience is it's always going to be unique and individual to yourself but what I do Know is that the ways in which US as

[01:52:33] Megan: Human beings react and respond and try To deal with and process you know pain and Trauma and suffering there's a lot of overlap in the ways in which that we can feel and that you know things that we're trying to do and that's really where I'm able to I would say like find My way in to connect to people and letting them know and feel that you're not alone in what you're going through I Might it might be it's not going to be of course I'm not going to understand exactly what you have gone through but The pain the you know the coping mechanisms the ways in which you're trying to you know like just function

[01:53:12] Jacob: There's a lot of overlap there and That's really where I can reach people and help them and um you know kind of just tapping into my own personal experiences of what I have

[01:53:23] Megan: Gone through remembering what I felt Like and what I did all the way along And through my journey you know all of my trials and errors you know trying this it didn't work or you know just all Of the different things over you know basically the past I'd say you know nine Years I've been you know learning every step of the way and I'm never going to not be learning right this mental health is a journey not a destination and it's Something that I think that a lot of us don't tend to remember as often we're like I just want to you know get here and then I'll be good it's like no like we're constantly you know we're fluid creatures we're constantly changing and evolving always trying to be a better version of who we were yesterday and um you know it's just it's reminding people a lot of the times that you know it's so easy to be so hard on Ourselves like why can't I just get it together like why can't I just be this or why am I always doing this to myself and it's you know it's important to remember that you know it's you have the Only way out is through and you have to be patient with yourself give yourself that Grace and you know knowing that Like I said it's okay to not be okay but

[01:54:37] Jacob: I hopefully I feel like I do a

[01:54:40] Megan: Pretty good job with it but I the biggest thing for people when they are you know coming to uh to BetterU when They're coming to ketamine therapy is they a lot of people they're like this is my last chance like this is my Hail Mary like if this doesn't work like I'm out of options and you know those people Are the ones they're like I need this to work like overnight right and those are typically the people that it takes a bit longer for and so when they're coming to me and they're like it's not working like and they're kind freaking out a little bit I'm like it's okay just you know remember you got to take it day at a time session at a time try not to be So hard on yourself just take it step at A time but as long as I can give them that little glimmer of hope like to see that light at the end of the tunnel essentially reaching my hand out and Pulling them up just that tiny little bit so that they can actually then see that Horizon that's the Difference Maker Is when people know that like oh like I It's you know it is a bit far away but I can see it is possible and That's the Difference Maker from at least what I have seen in working with the you know hundreds of patients that I have gotten to work with over the past couple of years and uh it's been truly a Uh it's been a journey I won't lie to you but uh getting to kind of now see Full Circle that you know I never would have wished of course to have you know been shot at you know such a young age and um you know just such a pivotal moment of my life but you know now kind Of coming full circle saying that now I can take this you know awful thing that Happened to me and use it for good you Know to help others along the way so that not like you know it wasn't for Nothing essentially it's you know my purpose and I know that I'm meant to be doing this so it's it like I said it took me many years to kind of

[01:56:34] Jacob: Get that reason or like why the modeling Didn't work out or why that other career didn't work out is because if I those things had I would not be here now doing What I'm doing and this is what I'm meant to do and what I'm you know this is this is it's honestly the greatest and most fulfilling thing and I'm just so grateful to be here to help you guys and let you know you're not alone and it is gonna be okay yeah it's so profound I mean thank You again for just being willing to share all that stuff like it's got to be you know with time I'm sure you've learned how to speak about it in a way that doesn't um like feel weird or feel uh I feel Like a lot of times when we talk about this stuff we talk about these things that happen to us to me when I would share them like am I lying about this did that really happen like you'd have to like allow it um but it's just like yeah it really is like it's so important you know what you said about being able to help other people it really creates those little it's like this it's like this sheet of thing and there's like these little holes that you get to like okay I see you in there because I've made that hole on the way out so I can see you and like you said I love your analogies and metaphors of being able to like reach in and actually access these people and it helps us again with all of This stuff we continuously think that we're alone we think that we're

[01:57:52] Megan: The worst where the we can't get over This thing that happened it was the worst thing that happened nobody could understand but just by you sharing those Sorts of things um and it really does create an opening

[01:58:05] Jacob: And it allows us to allow those things That happened with ourselves um some something that I you know really a lot of my a lot of my work and like my I mean almost Obsession like something I think about a lot because it was so profound to me is

[01:58:23] Megan: Like the self personality identity Um I mean these are really at like the core of how do I get better or why am I Thinking this way or what's going on with me or this pain that happened a lot of it all seems to point back to like the self identity um the personality structure that we unknowingly formed to get through these

[01:58:44] Jacob: Things um have you thought I mean Where do you think about this like this before and after of kind of like allowing our old self to go you know you Had to like really let go of like I guess I'm not going to be a model you know that's you know those are things we have to mourn in themselves like whether you know and then there's this in between period of

[01:59:06] Megan: Like you know you're the uh I've heard

[01:59:09] Jacob: It said like the chapter or the Chapter between stories or the story between stories you're like I know that I'm going in the right direction I know those things don't serve me any longer but I haven't like made this new identity I don't feel I think I'm leaning towards my purpose whatever the heck that means you know you're in between and I think there's a way that we have to you know mourn in allow through all Of these processes you know and a lot of it isn't until retrospect that we could really allow the morning to take place and like allow that thing to be let go to you know let something new in Um I was talking with a um I made a little post last week Um about talking to you on here and I just like seeing if anybody has any questions or inquiries I had one friend who was talking about um you know she was in I think like her late her late third or late 20s and uh She got diagnosed with cancer and she had like this like really good job before and she had her whole life set up like everything was cool she got diagnosed with cancer had to go through all that all this time off work go through all that turmoil for a long time and then you know she got she was good on the other side they got rid of the cancer but she tried going back to That job she tried going back to that whole life and she was like I don't none of this makes sense to me like she had this you know Awakening of a new version Of herself which I think you know facing being forced to face our own mortality in a lot of ways is a huge Thing in our culture that is you know massively overlooked and um it really is You know a lot of our old self has to Die off in a sense um and so she Kind of inquired about you know if ketamine therapy could help with those sorts of things like being able to let an old structure of ourself die off being able to like really adapt to and Allow to this new side of ourselves and how to trust that so um so I love that you shared your story about you know ketamine allowing this

[02:01:08] Megan: New version of who you are to take Place you know um what do you think about the

[02:01:16] Jacob: Self identity personality structure Um you know in I guess the death in In Rebirth of these sorts of things and like how does psychedelic therapy play a role in that I guess too absolutely that's a great question and you know first time you know I'm so Sorry that you know your friend had to go through something as you know in intense and terrifying as that at such a Young age and you know just as like you Know of course much different you know being diagnosed with cancer versus you know getting shot but you know still both things it's making us aware of our Mortality in a sense and I think that when you know at you know especially you know being younger and having something like that happen because you have so much life ahead of you it's uh you know It can at least for me it really rattled me to my core it made me realize that Like oh like you know I'm not gonna live forever like I'm not Invincible like I'm just human and Um you know of course through the you know just the years of you know just like the pain and the suffering and um you know just the trying this trying that one thing that I realized really Like when I started the ketamine therapy was that it's not that you have to essentially let like your old self die

[02:02:34] Megan: It's more that when kind of looking at The person that you used to be there can

[02:02:40] Jacob: Still be pieces and aspects of that Person that you still like that you still identify with that you still feel connected to and those are the pieces and parts that um at least for me through ketamine it was allowing me to be able to see they're like oh I don't just have to completely write off you know the person That I used to be the values the goals The things that I was working towards because this was the biggest thing for me is that having to kind of come to terms with that I am no longer that Person like this what I have gone through what I have experienced you know

[02:03:15] Megan: It is fundamentally changed who I am and

[02:03:18] Jacob: In doing so it has essentially altered You know it changed my you know my priorities and you know especially after something of you know like a near-death Experience or you know diagnosis or whatever it might be it really tends to at least from what I've seen put a lot of things into perspective of You know instead of just you know doing whatever kind of you know job to you know have a career it's you know I've seen a lot of people that will then go into something that is more you know like fulfilling or like that it feeds Their soul at least for me that's what this is you know getting to help Others and of course you know sometimes at the end of the day if you know literally being on calls all day of course I can be you know exhausted but my like my internal battery doesn't just

[02:04:07] Megan: Feel constantly drained you know my cup

[02:04:09] Jacob: Is still full because it's meaningful

[02:04:12] Megan: It's fulfilling and it is you know for Me it feels like it's my calling but I Really I had to kind of come to terms with that like I was for a long time Really trying to just like that's like you know who I used to be and like I can't be any of the things that you know I used to be or that I you know used to want because that's you know like that's just not where I am now or I'm not doing that anymore but what I had to kind of

[02:04:39] Jacob: Come to realize is that it's

[02:04:42] Megan: I realized that I'm like actually Like it reminded me of the pieces and parts of myself that I had just kind of closed off to for such a long time and I'm like wait but like in ketamine I would come out of some sessions I'm like wait but like I remember like when I used to do that it used to make me feel so happier like I loved it or like you know just whatever it was no matter how silly or Strange or whatever it is if it was something like a piece or a part of myself that I liked I was I realized that it's not all or nothing that I could take you know the pieces That I wanted and let go of the pieces that either you know no longer served me or that just wasn't aligned with this

[02:05:21] Jacob: New you know essentially just you know Me that I have been you know continuously growing into and Um you know I've had it would feel like a lot of different I don't know lifetimes if you could call it you know in my you know not too many years you know I'm almost 30 so it's like I feel like I've lived like 45 50 years in the Almost 30 years I've been here but um you know just I've had you know at 30

[02:05:47] Megan: I've had basically three very big Different you know career shifts so it's like you know starting over and over and over again and I won't lie that Was really hard for me having to start from scratch after just like oh like I Just did all of this I put in so much time and energy and work and like this was my everything it's all I thought about I sacrificed so much for this and

[02:06:11] Jacob: Then when it doesn't pan out of course It's you know it's heartbreaking it's shattering because it's like oh my gosh like was that all for nothing but another thing that ketamine therapy Really helped me to also realize is that while those different avenues that you Know I was doing all they didn't necessarily pan out in the way that I thought it would there were still a lot

[02:06:34] Megan: Of you know skills and things that I Learned in those two different you know careers essentially that I'm able to

[02:06:41] Jacob: Still tap into and utilize and what I'm Doing now it's not all for a waste just You know you can use some of the same sort of like you know principles or ideas or you know just you know things that you've learned of how you worked that you can bring into whatever it is You're doing and you know kind of just you know change it a little bit you know restructure it like you know take it apart and be like okay when I was trying to you know get this done for a deadline like how would I prioritize like all of the other things I needed to get done even though it's not the specific thing Of like what I'm like actually doing it's a different job or a career I can Still apply those same kind of you know just either prioritization or you know organization or just you know thought processes just whatever it might be you can still utilize the certain things in

[02:07:32] Megan: Like little ways and bring that into you Know what you're doing next and so it's kind of like you know the reason that you know they have us you know go through school and you're constantly you know you're going from middle school to then you know high school and then you know college it's sort of like all of those things it's just kind of like the next step on the path towards you know Leading you to you know of course then you know whatever career it is right and it's sort of like I kind of tried to think of it in that same sense of like okay like you know this was like you Know my steps to kind of get to where I Am now right and like a huge part of it Is in this job for me uh you know There's it's medical right so you know we're talking about very serious things and you know needing to have that level of professionalism and Um basically like what I did after modeling I went into mortgage real Estate was doing residential loans so I was dealing with you know a lot of uh you know Professionals in a much more serious environment whereas modeling you know it's a lot more uh you know fluid Creativity and just you know kind of characters I would say so like but at The same time you know in modeling and working with people from all over the world all different you know ethnicities racist is and you know just all of the

[02:08:49] Jacob: Things and learning how to kind of find

[02:08:51] Megan: That way to you know connect with any Different kind of person so that's kind of what I took from the modeling and then with real estate you know kind of taking that you know much more professional uh you know demeanor and Being able to handle much more you know sensitive things like you know talking to somebody and going over their finances and like just you know personal sensitive things um you know and like kind of also helping people going through that emotional process of real estate and Loans that's a huge part of it as well but um just I took pieces from each thing and now incorporate that into what I do Now and so it's I'm like it's not a waste it's it wasn't of course the

[02:09:32] Jacob: Plan but that's okay and you know we Never want to have to start over again but you know it's who knows maybe the

[02:09:41] Megan: Reason that you know if we can't make Sense of it right now maybe one it was

[02:09:47] Jacob: She was doing before no matter how much

[02:09:50] Megan: She tried or wanted it to it wasn't Meant to be and who knows maybe the next most incredible thing is right around the corner and uh it's just waiting For you and because you're not doing this you're able to jump into that and It's kind of the way that I try to think about it and definitely helps I would say yeah I seriously love that you went this way with that like I like so Cool because I think that's so important is a lot of times we do feel the need to Like even hearing my own language you know we feel the need to like reject our old self or like completely deny it or You know there's if we're going through a lot of change and we're you know forming a new version of our identity I feel like there's um you know especially I think when it comes in kind of like the mystical spiritual realm of things it's really Easy to you know we have these things called ego death and then we like reject everything about it like I don't have an ego anymore for a while or we have like a like just shame about who we were before or whatever but it's all LED you to who you were and I think um you know in my own Journey that's been a huge thing for me as there was a long time where um when I first got into you know meditation and breath work and yoga I was doing it like every day of the week for multiple hours and so I almost got like very um Like cold and dry and like anything that wasn't spiritual or meditative I just rejected I remember for a while um I like I wouldn't listen to anything that was like funny or like making fun Of anything or um you know comedy of any

[02:11:24] Jacob: Sorts when before I loved to laugh I Loved I loved comedy I liked you know romantic comedy stand-up comedy like all I just I loved laughter and there was a Long time where I rejected anything that wasn't like spiritual or Divine or whatever and then I had to realize that Um you know I had some things some things happen and I remember like being weirded out at how dry and just serious I was like you know like someone close to me would like had passed away and I was like just well that's the way of Life you know accepting it like I wouldn't let myself feel these actual human things and um there was a it

[02:11:59] Megan: Was just like a revamping of allowing Those things in and allowing yourself to be you know pieces of pieces of who you were there's a there's a line that I've written the ego the ego doesn't like change nor grit but loves to fill with hold so there's like pieces of your old self that you have to like you don't you don't destroy them you don't try to like delete these you know parts of your life that happen they happen and they are who you are today in a lot of sense that are only who you are today but you have to allow Them I really like that you mentioned that because there is a lot of um I don't know a lot of times there's almost like shame that could that could sneak in I think when we're trying to redevelop our you know new version of who we are now and where we're at in life and in work and

[02:12:44] Jacob: Romantic relationships all of it like we We feel the need sometimes I think to like not allow any of the old stuff in and I don't think that's as healthy as it could be like now I mean I love comedy I listen to comedy podcasts all the time every Monday at 8 pm is like my favorite time of the whole week because it's a new podcast comes out that I love it's a comedy podcast um so yeah I really like where you went with that I thank you for that like it is um forming these new versions of ourselves doesn't mean we need to reject everything about the past you know there's a lot of good juicy stuff that we've learned through our lifetime that we don't need to just throw overboard you know I think that's good I think about it like this right like when you get a computer when you first get it's running properly it's running efficiently there's not too much excess Software on there it's doing pretty good right and then all of a sudden as you know you have it for a bit longer you're like oh like I need to do this or That and so you know you start adding some new software or downloading files or you know like whatever it is adding new things to the to the computer and uh

[02:13:50] Megan: You know sometimes while we are adding a

[02:13:52] Jacob: Program or a new software there is a Reason for that there's a purpose it's designed to like either help or you know

[02:14:00] Megan: Do XYZ but sometimes what we don't Really realize or know is that sometimes some of these programs or the software can have little bugs or viruses that we Can't see when we're downloading it we only then realize it once we're then starting you know to try to you know do something else and now all of a sudden the computer is it's you know that same analogy from before it's slowing down it's overheating is it's not Working as properly you're getting the endless rainbow wheel that never ends and you're like oh my gosh why is this happening right and um so what you do is You know you when that happens you don't just throw the computer away it's Still a good piece of Machinery the computer itself is not broken it's just The files the software the programs on it I've just introduced

[02:14:49] Jacob: These viruses and these bugs that is Then messing with the whole functioning of the computer so like I said you don't throw the computer away you either you Just you know wipe the like you get rid

[02:15:01] Megan: Of the like the bad you clear out The you know the viruses or the bugs or You update the software essentially right so it's sort of like you know Apple if you have an iPhone you get new updates you know every couple of months right it's learning from the bugs and the viruses from the previous versions of the software that's how it continues to improve and work better and better and better so it's the same kind of idea with you know our ourselves of who we Are as human beings as we grow as we learn as we evolve it's you know It's such an easy thing to when you're making a radical shift and going through

[02:15:40] Jacob: A humongous change or a trauma that we Feel that we have to completely like you said get rid of all of the old so that

[02:15:48] Megan: We can you know essentially kind of jump Into this new and be this thing because that's the only way we feel that we can survive but it's really that you know It's human beings are greatest superpower is learning from past

[02:16:04] Jacob: Mistakes and experience right it goes Back to you know like caveman days right like if it's the it's how the brain works when something happens and the way

[02:16:14] Megan: Like that whatever happens we learn from That so that when it happens again uh we Know what to do and can fall back on that you know memory you're that experience right so it's like in the caveman days if somebody was like oh pretty lion and then all of a sudden the lion comes and you know bites your arm off you're like okay maybe don't go up to try and pet the lion again right it's our survival instincts that's our greatest superpower but it's also it can Be our greatest weakness right it's all about making that superpower work For you not against you and the way of

[02:16:49] Jacob: Doing that is by not you know completely

[02:16:52] Megan: Shutting off the past it's taking the The you know things that didn't necessarily work out or that was you Know causing problems or causing the computer to overheat and it's altering it's taking those pieces that did Work and that were good and it's getting rid of the parts that were you know making it slow down or not work well and Uh you know so it's just essentially it's like that consistent software update and again like you're not throwing the computer away the computer is fine there was just some bugs and viruses you had to clear out and then update so then now all of a sudden it's working perfectly again right essentially same thing as you know what I was talking about before of going into these sessions of clearing out you know your mind just getting everything outside of your self so it can live Outside of you and it's kind of like that same idea but there's only so much uh you know memory or hard drive space on a computer if you have too much on There it's just it's not going to be able it's going to be super slow it's going to be constantly overworked and overheated so you gotta get it out of The computer like whether it's you know deleting old files or downloading things onto a thumb drive like you know putting it into the cloud whatever analogy you want to put there it's getting it off of the hard drive clearing that space so that it could be able to work properly and it's one of the first Analogies believe it or not that I kind of came up with after first starting with ketamine therapy and I've really found that in a lot of the different ways when I was trying to like articulate and understand what it was

[02:18:31] Jacob: That I was experiencing the changes that Started happening inside of me of just like you know the way that I was thinking the way I was approaching certain things and like how I was actually growing the way that I just my Mind made sense of things is through analogies and that was kind of really how not only I was able to kind of Understand more like what was going on inside of

[02:18:56] Megan: Myself but I then also found that Was a really great way for me to be able to like I was talking about earlier reach and connect with those people Explaining these kind of harder to understand Concepts and ideas and putting it into very simple language that anybody could understand and it's Just it was the way my mind kind of started making sense of things and putting the you know puzzle pieces back together and uh I find that if you can

[02:19:25] Jacob: In your own ways as you're experiencing Things and going through things the more that you write it's the greatest tool That you can use in terms of understanding what it is that you're Going through and experiencing and it's actually this is a quote I got from an

[02:19:43] Megan: Apple TV show physical it's a hilarious Show but there was this great quote in it and it was that when you write things down you can't forget and if you can't forget or no it you write things down Um what was it was like you write things down um so you can't forget and if you can't forget then you'll remember and uh so It's the kind of thing where when we're going through our own Journeys typically we can kind of tend to overlook the little wins the little progresses that we're making or those little changes that you might not pay too much attention to unless given attention to It but then all of a sudden we can really start to see our progress and if we ever have you know setbacks being able to come back and re-read these previous journal entries of our journey and going like okay like you know yeah this is a bit of a setback but like look at how far I've come from when I started like I didn't remember or realize you

[02:20:38] Jacob: Know like how where this was when I Started right or actually how far I've really come and it's a great way to remind yourself giving yourself like that credit of that you know you are Changing you are evolving it's gonna take some time but in the end it's worth it and it's you know most people Don't like journaling they're like it's a chore I have to do it I'm not I'm not gonna do that but I'm telling you it

[02:21:03] Megan: Really is the greatest tool that Helped me along my journey in getting to where I was and just making sense of everything so yeah absolutely man It really is like a it's a superpower a Lot of times I like to say that I have a lot going on and sometimes it's bouncing around inside my skull and I think that I'm going to solve problems by just looping the same like craziness that's in my school yeah getting it out you know in like you mentioned too like even just pulling up a voice recorder and just speaking maybe you're not even going to show anybody maybe you're not even wanting to listen to it ever again but just speaking it out and talking about it you know talking into your phone or ride it out a lot of times once you get started with writing the initial sitting down like what am I going to write about um I think we're also we're also kind of trained in the Western World to be graded on everything like we're riding as if someone else is going to read it or as if we can write it wrong there's no writing it wrong when we're just sharing our thoughts getting them on paper so we can actually think through them I think um Jordan Peterson a lot of times has some way of saying like we don't know what we're what we're We don't know what we're thinking until we think it you know and a lot of times we think that we have this we have this like string of mess in there sometimes and we think that's okay well I did my best but a lot of times when you write it out you can see oh this is a mess I can think about this a little bit differently so um yeah I love all of your analogies and metaphors and everything they're so perfect there's like I'm just saying yes I love the it's also funny how we're how we're able to understand you know computers in ourself like it really is a way of kind of laying out the inner workings of our one of my Better ones that's for sure I will say it's it hit it on the head so like I've said that people they're like that's a Great way of phrasing it like now that I think of it they swim like it makes me see it in a whole new light I'm like that's the idea right like it just dumped on me at one point I'm like oh my gosh like it's actually so much simpler To like it gives me like a road map of like okay like rather than trying to make sense of everything of like how do I fix this or what do I do it's like okay think of it in a very simple analogy how do you fix a computer you Debug it you delete some extra files you don't need anymore and you clear out the space you get it working again it's like okay like that gives me an idea like how Do I now apply that to myself what's the Excess stuff that I'm thinking about that I'm feeling get it out of me download it off that hard drive what are

[02:23:34] Jacob: The habits what are the you know the

[02:23:37] Megan: The daily routines that I do what's Serving me what's not serving me what's helping me what's getting me closer making me feel more aligned to myself right it's like those are the programs that's the software right our habits our routines that's how we go through life Right it's like that consistency and so it's just like finding those analogies that you align with that makes Sense to you of kind of what you're experiencing and then kind of use that almost as like your like road map or navigation for however you fix or you solve you know that equation and apply That to the situation that you're dealing with and I find that really makes it a lot easier than like you know a lot of the self-help books out there that's like okay you gotta map out this Then you gotta figure this out and you're just like oh my gosh this is so Much like I don't know where to begin like it's too overwhelming and you almost just don't even want to start so it's like just start small piece by Piece and you know it'll get more and more and more and that's really just it's you start by starting that's Really the biggest thing is you just gotta start somewhere step one take step

[02:24:43] Jacob: One day or day one right hey there You go um okay uh we are getting up here in time um I wanna um I have pretty much it just one More question um and then I would love for you to just give us one more summary of better You where we can go like how people you

[02:25:04] Megan: Know get started with it what the next step is after like maybe the this podcast is the first time they've heard anything about the even psychedelics like let's say from that point so like where do we go but before we get into that um I did have a question about the future of um like psychedelic therapy the future of um uh you know like job wise I had one Friend who I'm like I'm listening loud and clear too you know I'm interested even for myself like if we're seeing maybe in the future um as this world opens up and it's like really actually helping people you know normally we have the routes of you know you go to school and you become a psychologist and or you know even like a school counselor or whatever it is how you can help people I think there's a lot of people who listen to the podcast who um are kind of like we know that we want to help people and we're not really sure how and I think that like for me personally like the it's this stuff is super enticing like if I could you know help people out and you know help people go through Academy therapy so the future of like work in the Psychedelic field like not only just for BetterU but like I don't know I guess where do you see like 15 20 years down the road like What's this going to look like how could someone who's listening who has interest like prepare themselves or lean into it or who do we reach out to any of that stuff and then um if you'll just make sure we know exactly where to go for BetterU to further ourselves with other you BetterU absolutely great

[02:26:24] Jacob: Question so a lot of exciting things in The pipeline in terms of the world of psychedelics So currently at the moment the only legal psychedelic is ketamine And ketamine actually is technically not even necessarily really a psychedelic it's actually technically classified as a disassociative anesthetic but when

[02:26:43] Megan: Given at sub anesthetic level doses uh That's really where you can get the Psychedelic experience because like Traditional Academy was uh synthesized To be um you know an anesthetic for like for Surgery or you know it was used on like The battlefields um and so it wasn't really actually until they you know people were coming Out of surgeries and they started having these crazy mental health benefits that's when they really started looking into it for the mental health side of things so um that's basically the only reason excuse me why ketamine really is the Only legal psychedelic because Tech frankly it's actually not really a psychedelic for what it was intended purpose was when originally synthesized Um so that's essentially kind of the world of ketamine in terms of other psychedelics I don't know the exact Timeline on all of them because they're you know they're always kind of changing there's a lot of clinical trials and things that you know has to kind of take Place and that they all have to go through before they can be cleared and um you know federally approved but um like for example um they've been doing a ton a ton of

[02:27:57] Jacob: Clinical trials with MDMA for uh for PTSD they've been working a lot with veterans like you know with maps they've been uh you know researching this and you know doing all kinds of things for almost I think like the past 50 years right like Rick doblin has led the Way for this and um you know it's they're almost there I think they're in like the stage three of clinical trials Like they're probably within maybe the next I don't know a couple of years or so that can be approved for uh for

[02:28:28] Megan: You know PTSD and then as well as

[02:28:31] Jacob: Um you know there's uh LSD for

[02:28:34] Megan: Alzheimer's we're seeing amazing results

[02:28:37] Jacob: In that regard again all things clinical

[02:28:39] Megan: Trials they're still illegal but they Are you know of course for clinical studies and trials and things like that's kind of where they're Gathering that data there's a lot of Hoops that kind of have to be jumped through before anything can kind of come out so I mean that's probably you know maybe five years or so I'll give or take I don't know the exact timeline again that's also very fluid constantly changing it Just kind of depends um I don't know I know like psilocybin Has been decriminalized in a couple of States I think like Oregon and uh somewhere else I'm not can't remember exactly but um it doesn't mean that it's still technically um like illegal right like you can't be you know like selling it or doing anything like that it's just been decriminalized um but so that I don't remember the exact timeline on that but probably within the next like I don't know a

[02:29:33] Jacob: Couple of years to maybe like six seven Eight years or so a lot of these different kind of psychedelics that you know have been around for a very long time um you know as soon as they've you know made their way through all of the clinical trials and studies and they've got gathered the data basically what we Think is probably gonna like how It's Gonna Roll Out is that all of these things you know it's you have to do in clinic in office essentially for any kind of these experiences which is still You know even once these other uh compounds are available or you know are

[02:30:08] Megan: Legal essentially um you know for treatment basically It's still you have to go in office and

[02:30:16] Jacob: That's what makes ketamines such a Um you know a game changer is being able to do this from the comfort of your own home it's normally in mental health we Don't see numbers of success rates above like 30 if like on the best day like Absolute best somewhere around 30 that's typically like the success rate with typical uh you know mental health uh you Know medications treatment whatever it is the numbers that we have been seeing from this at home model is I mean we're

[02:30:47] Megan: Probably somewhere of like 80 to you

[02:30:50] Jacob: Know mid 90 success rate which is insane To even think about right it's like oh my gosh like this works right and people are able to you know especially if they're in like a rural area or something and they're able to get access to you know utilize this

[02:31:07] Megan: Treatment right ship to the home now of Course a lot of the reasons of why we've Been able to do this has been because of you know covid and telemedicine laws changing um and so that's kind of how we've been able to do a lot of this now that being said the laws are still probably potentially going to be uh you know

[02:31:26] Jacob: Changing a little bit probably maybe by The end of this year um they could extend it again we're just we don't know until we get that guidance but essentially from what I understand the only change that's going to happen is that you'll have to go in and like meet

[02:31:41] Megan: With the clinician for your initial appointment versus being able to do that through telemedicine as we currently have been but then after that same thing You know the medicine everything will be getting shipped to the home and can utilize the treatment from the comfort of your own home so in terms of like

[02:31:58] Jacob: Psychedelics that's kind of like the

[02:32:01] Megan: Idea of timing of that you know these Things are in the pipeline they are in the works they've been you know getting studied you know trials um for a long time we're still of course you know little ways out but basically it's you know once the FDA approves these things then they will give guidance as to like how and

[02:32:21] Jacob: Who can be able to start you know

[02:32:23] Megan: Administering and you know having making

[02:32:26] Jacob: This accessible so essentially like in

[02:32:29] Megan: Terms of the workforce like right now Um you know it's this is a brand new industry right we're essentially forging

[02:32:37] Jacob: The path of a brand new Um you know industry that as you know it's just everything is new right we don't have a like a Playbook of okay Like you know if you're trying to you know like open a bank or you know open a real estate office like you know do you know x y z and then that's how you know this is the game plan here but this we're figuring it out as we go right we're trying to be very conscious

[02:33:03] Megan: Of not doing you know anything that is

[02:33:06] Jacob: Going to you know harm but we're really Trying to change the standard of care and mental health and you know changing The stigmas that are associated with mental health and like I was said a few times in this podcast now it's okay to Not be okay and you know just getting rid of all of the negative associations that mental health has had for such a

[02:33:28] Megan: Long time primarily just because most of The mental health things for the past you know 50 years they haven't really Worked that well right it's LED people to you know chronic dependence on medications and you know suicide and depression and just not being able to Actually heal and the biggest difference with psychedelics is that these things have the power to actually heal and

[02:33:52] Jacob: Allah allow you to free yourself from The pain and the suffering you know that had been plaguing you for how Like most of your life or however long it was and knowing that it's possible that honestly is the biggest difference but in terms of like the workforce

[02:34:10] Megan: Um you know it's we're trying to be especially just you know with BetterU we're being very mindful of not opening You know too quickly we're not oh just we could have very easily like a lot of our competitors out there they went and you know they raised a lot of money initially and you know they opened up in all these places but it's you know we Could have easily done that but instead we're like we want to go slow figure out

[02:34:34] Jacob: The best way of What patients actually

[02:34:37] Megan: Realistically need to maximize you know The results and get the most out of this and we realize that it's the level of Care and attention it's being able if you need help being able to call somebody text somebody get a hold of somebody on the phone have a video call have support along the way guidance Information and just having everything you need in order to do that it requires A lot of different aspects and so that's kind of you know a couple of different things you know it could be your you Want to do something that is helping people but maybe you're not the best at you know talking to people or whatever it is but you're really good at you know systems and softwares there could be the Avenue of you know being on you know

[02:35:20] Jacob: Like the care coordination teams or like You know the support like handling you know the operations of things the

[02:35:28] Megan: People that actually keep these you know Keep make this company go you know full circle and keep it running um you know so there's uh there's app um you know there's opportunities in that kind of an aspect as well as let's just say you're like I'm not that good at systems but like I really know how to Talk to people I have you know my own experiences that I've gone through and you know like I've learned a lot I have a lot of wisdom you know whatever it is that could be the kind of Realm of more of say something like an integration guide which is um another aspect of our company is like what we do is after like when people First come to us they have an intro call just to learn more information that second step then is they meet with the Clinician determines they are a good candidate for treatment will prescribe medicine and then as soon as

[02:36:16] Jacob: They receive their box in the mail you

[02:36:19] Megan: Schedule a treatment preparation call with you know someone from our team they Essentially walk you through how to take the medication the steps the process kind of just everything you need to know preparing you before you even start with

[02:36:33] Jacob: The medicine then after you have you Know started with the medicine you start slow you work your way up from those acclimation doses then after you've Completed it's usually after about every like third or seventh session like

[02:36:47] Megan: Depending on which package you initially signed up for um but typically it's about every like three or four sessions you do that's when you would then at that point schedule an appointment with one of our integration guides and essentially what their role is they you know they get on a video call with you and you know they kind of everything that you have That's kind of come for you so far that You know you've journaled that you've experienced just everything that has been happening for you so far they Really help you to just kind of hold space and like you can either you know kind of share what's been happening and then they can kind of give you some helpful tips and tricks to really bring That and incorporate that you know and integrate it really into your everyday life so that you can actually make those lasting changes or additionally Um you know they could you know they can give you know some more helpful you know pieces of advice or you know tips or tricks it's you know up to whatever it is that you want out of that session essentially and then additionally if at any point throughout The whole process basically if you need help if you need to troubleshoot something you can always you know like this is what I do right is you can get on a video call with myself or anybody else from my team and we can kind of you know just help you with if it's an issue with the medicine if you aren't sure how Like Continued Care or maintenance works and so essentially that's kind of the process from when initially getting

[02:38:15] Jacob: Started as a patient all the way till Once you've kind of completed that whole first round which is it's about a month is like each round of treatment whether you're doing either the four or the eight session package as I mentioned before you are either doing a session Once or twice a week so depending on that it varies a little bit but pretty Much like the steps of like how many different appointments and touch points that you get throughout the process Um as well as you know you're getting check-ins you have the portal to kind of follow through everything you've got every single thing laid out for you so as uh Jacob said earlier don't worry you Don't have to remember all the stuff we've covered it's all very laid out clearly in that portal for you so Um basically after that first month that's typically where people will get on you know say another call with me and they're like hey like you know like I'm feeling good but like how does Continued Care work like do I like am I Done do I still do I need to do more like I just I don't really know how this Works or what I'm supposed to be doing and that's usually where I'll just be able to have a conversation kind of just to assess how you're feeling where you're at how much how much progress you've made and um you know it's really it's up to you right and the other thing too is let's just say you initially sign up with you know the eight sessions that Doesn't mean you have to always do that you can always go down to the four session and that's actually kind of part of the idea is we want to get you to you Know in the beginning you kind of start doing it much more frequently Um and then kind of as you start moving forward and you know getting to that neurobiological reset then it kind Of gets into more of that maintenance so it's like okay I started with twice a week then once a week then once every other week once a month then all the way almost to as needed and it's kind of It's great because you know one per person might need to do this another Person might need that and So based on where you're at and how you're doing we can help you to kind of give you Um you know like a guide map of like okay like what are your goals what are you trying to accomplish like how do you feel like you know asking you questions kind of just determining like where you are how much progress you've made and we'll be able we're never going to try to you know push like hey like you need to do another round like or you're not going to get better it's more that like hey like if you're interested you can give you the information kind of give you just like what we have seen you know With previous experience and then kind of just go from there but ultimately it's up to you and you can always like you could even stop for a few months And come back to us right like I have patients that like I took a three-month break and they come back to us and it's literally as simple as like just picking Which package they want to do confirming the dosage and then getting you know collecting payment and sending that refill in so it's a super easy process to pick back up after you've already established that care in terms of where to go to find out more

[02:41:13] Megan: Information you can go to Www.BetterU just the letter U

[02:41:20] Jacob: Care.com and you can also go to our

[02:41:23] Megan: Instagram which is BetterU same thing just the letter U care uh and that's on Instagram we've got a lot of great content patient Testimonials um you know just we've done a lot of conferences activations all kinds of great things that you can check all that out on the Instagram page Um and we're always adding new awesome content and uh you know just great Recommendations for things so in terms of you know Workforce with BetterU those are the kind of different Avenues in that sense as well as you know as the Markets and things change there could be more opportunities also in you know becoming you know like an integration guide or a like a facilitator right for Some of these experiences it's until these things kind of come through in the pipeline we just don't know exactly what It's going to look like yet but it's something to you know if you're interested can follow but Additionally You know if you're interested in you know working with you know ketamine now or you know in any kind of a different aspect um you know there's lots of opportunities and lots of different ways to get involved and to contribute Um so it's you know again like one of the great things is that currently we're doing a lot it's all very remote right So you're able to uh you know help people from you know the comfort of your own home until the point of plan you know of course we're going to be opening up our first brick and mortar here in Los Angeles like our first you know mental health or like wellness center basically where we can be able to be doing you know IVs and IMS and having Like little integration pod rooms and people can come in and you know meet with the doctor they can come in and you know meet with a you know talk therapist just like all kinds of things as well as Um some fun stuff we've got coming in the pipeline is that we're going to be doing some regenerative Health Sexual

[02:43:14] Jacob: Health couples therapy all kinds of

[02:43:17] Megan: Really exciting us of course you know with talk therapy as well a lot of exciting things coming in the pipeline so definitely will be much more opportunity in all of that sense I know I blurted it all out a little bit out of order but I had to get all of it out there so I didn't forget anything so there you go no it's perfect it's all great information and I will of course include in the description a couple links um and then you know I'll probably include whatever like Clips or whatever I make I will include that info there and um yeah anybody who's listening uh You know if you have my info feel free to message me if you have any questions about my personal experience um or like if for whatever reason you're confused about anything like I will um do my best to kind of be an usher of Sending you on over to BetterU or just emphasize I mean I've had great experience with these with all these people from over there um it's been really like there's been so much yes from me like I'm just like down to The music is just straight gas I love it um like the initial you know at the Beginning you know there's they mentioned breath work there's uh meditations that they send you like all of it I'm like oh this is so cool I'm so glad that they included this you know I didn't think that it was going to be that in detail when I first got into it and I would just um you know so happy along the whole way so um I feel like you guys do such a good job at BetterU of supporting all these aspects and in your very um aware of the future and like how you could continue to improve it too you know we had some discussions yesterday about kind of some of the things you guys are looking forward to in the future and um yeah it's just so much yes for me I think there's so many great resources and the future of uh not only your Guys's company but just healing and you know wellness centers and just I think we're Really starting to look at um the term mental health in such a new way it's like it's been such like a weird icky somehow only controlled by Orange pill bottles and like big daddy Pharma that if we can find a way to Make it actually help people out you know in introduces like all aspects of

[02:45:24] Jacob: Of Being Human I think that's the

[02:45:27] Megan: Way out man it's so good so

[02:45:31] Jacob: Um yeah um if there was anything else Megan from you uh I thank you so much for your time like this is so cool that you're willing to come here and chat with me for so long and give me so much your time like I really hope it sends people over your guys's way um was there any other knots that you wanted to tie or anything else you wanted to make sure you mentioned um I mean the only one I the only analogy that I did not say was my puzzle Piece analogy which is I think really helpful in terms I've kind of covered a little bit um but it's I say this to people probably almost every single day and it's probably like just as effective I Would say as the um like the computer analogy um but in terms of like kind of giving you an idea of how this like treatment

[02:46:14] Megan: Works like kind of what to expect Um it's essentially when you first come to this imagine that you have a puzzle piece and this puzzle piece represents your entire life story all of your experiences everything that has essentially LED you up until this point and made you who you are and basically You dump out all the puzzle pieces on the floor now of course you're trying to look at this you can't make anything else just one great big you know pile of Chaos nothing is you know you can't see how anything is connected to one another or how it's related to anything else you don't have any context you just hop all of these individual little random pieces That you can't really make sense of again I told talked earlier about the What the where and the why and when you don't have all three of those pieces of information that's what can tend to overwhelm us and make us like oh my gosh like I don't know what's going on here I can't make sense of it because I don't have all of the pieces that I need so It's essentially like when you start with the sessions it's pretty much like you kind of start finding a Couple of puzzle pieces at a time so it's like okay you know I've done a few sessions I've I found these pieces right Here and I was able to reassemble these right here and then this over here you know so on and so forth and then to the point of where you're like okay now like you know I've reassembled enough to the point where I can kind of make out what this is looking like what's happening over here and then there and on like basically so on and so forth to The point of where you've really been able to essentially reassemble this Whole puzzle piece accidents really only until this point this is the idea of Once you kind of really get that neurobiological reset where you get you know a crazy Epiphany or a breakthrough and it's kind of just like all of the little pieces of information that you've been kind of just having running around Or bouncing around your head and trying to make sense of now all of it just kind Of can seem to fall into place and you're able to just look at this full You know puzzle piece for what it Actually is versus what you thought it was when you only had the individual little pieces and you like now you can see how everything actually connects to one another and relates to it so now you can get those three pieces of information the what the where and the why right when you're looking at this part of the puzzle you're like okay I can see how this it connects to this Piece over here and why when this happens like it makes me feel like this or why I then think that I know where it's coming from why it's happening and I get that full picture essentially and That's really once you've been able to see everything for what it is getting

[02:48:57] Jacob: That kind of outside perspective that's Really where you can look at it objectively and all of a sudden you know That shift in perspective that is everything that's what ketamine

[02:49:10] Megan: Is incredible for it's the biggest thing That it allows us to do is when we're so stuck seeing something from one vantage point we can't see all the other aspects That goes into that we're just so fixated on this one thing it's not until we then you know move and shift and now Come over here and we're still looking at the whole same thing but just now That we're at this angle I can see oh I couldn't really make this out before because it just wasn't in my line of sight now I can get that full picture And you know take it for what it is and Be able to then now build on this new Foundation of now that I understand what's going on where it's coming from

[02:49:51] Jacob: And why it's happening now I can Actually make the changes and start doing the things that I want you know That I want to keep that I want to get rid of and getting to choose what I want And who I want to be versus having these Things always this essentially choosing for me and so that's like probably like My favorite one I would say that I always like to share because I think it really helps especially if you have not started with the treatment yet it gives you kind of like I said before those analogies giving you that little bit of the road map in terms of understanding setting some expectations of it's not going to happen overnight it can take some time it's important to remember that it does require some patience Um and a little bit of time in the beginning but just you know keep going like I said take a day at a time session at a time and you just keep putting Those puzzle pieces together and that journaling as well that's what's also going to really help you to kind of find those puzzle pieces and you know connect those dots essentially so that's That's basically the only one that I wanted to include that's uh definitely probably my favorite aside from the computer analogy but uh I hope it helps and also you can always Um like I said we have a whole team of people that if you just your interest did but you're not quite sure if you're If you're ready to you know take the leap but you just you want to learn a little bit more about how it works our program you know pricing so on so forth you go to our website

[02:51:21] Megan: Www.betterucare.com uh you can schedule An intro call with somebody from our team where like I said briefly before they'll walk you through our program the Pricing the process and we do have Financing options available so we've tried to make this as affordable as possible so that everybody can have access to it so just want to learn more you can always have an intro call it's free of charge you don't have to pay or commit to anything um but yeah that's basically like step one or you could always just go to the website and you know just take the plunge and you know sign up and then basically you're still gonna you know have that communication and the whole process with us so yeah really I'm glad that you threw that one in there your analogies are just you're slaying with the analogies they're all so good um yeah you guys I mean if you're listening and just like just do an intro call at least you know you're not committing to anything yet maybe you're worried about the finance and they'll explain all that to you just do an intro call it's worth getting your questions answered if um if You've made it this far and like you're really interested in healing something that's ailing you then you know why not take the next step maybe this is your this podcast is your sign to at least do The intro call you know just check them out um wow this was so great I feel like

[02:52:35] Outro: This was you know even better than I could have expected so I'm so again grateful for your time grateful for everybody over at BetterU um you know give Derek my thanks again it's all it's all so good Um uh yeah so reach out on social media I think you guys are a good follow too anyway I like following you and seeing what you post on your stories and in the new content you come up with too um I will be um yeah I'll include just look down the description if you're looking for anything else listeners you know the deal love yourself drink some water stretch make sure you're getting some morning sunlight give yourself a break you know take the next step in healing if that's what's uh whispering to you so we will see you guys next episode Megan thank you once again for your time see you later everybody this has been awesome I love to get to see you and connect to connect as you know persons you know To Patient now just you know getting to talk as to people along our own healing Journeys this has been it's been wonderful thank you so much for having me yeah it was so cool I'm so glad that I just like decided to send a little email I was like yeah let's see if I can if Megan's available I mean I want to talk to anybody from over there really but it was cool that you were available and um I mean you've been such a perfect guest for this so I think everybody will be very grateful with all the information you've provided so thank you thanks so much have a great rest of your day everybody