Episode 003 with Spencer Hicks

[00:00:02] Spencer: Why is your own voice so enjoy yourself

[00:00:08] Jacob: Yes whenever I listen to recordings of my own voice it's so unfortunate well it's I mean really you hear yourself from your own like head poverty right we

[00:00:21] Spencer: Are live my friend so uh ladies and

[00:00:23] Jacob: Gentlemen welcome to the John Carroll of podcasts they have Spencer Hicks this is actually the second time I had on the podcast but the first time I deleted it for no apparent reason so Spencer I'm happy to have you on here man you're just you're one of my friends who's I would definitely consider you a very intellectual person and so you and I always have very in-depth intelligent

[00:00:45] Spencer: Wonderful intriguing growth

[00:00:47] Jacob: Conversations where it we learn I feel like a lot of the we were ended a lot of the same subjects as well so I'm excited to have you guys a reoccurring guest on this podcast yes it's very it's very nice to be on here I really enjoy speaking with you yeah he definitely bring up bringing out

[00:01:06] Spencer: The good and everybody around you man so um today I think we should just dive right into like you came in with a couple things written down in all three of the words that you wrote down I was like yes in those three words were I would like to define ego consciousness and mindfulness and were people to do all those three things so I would love it if you want to start off whichever of those three and your definition I will start with the ego so people misinterpret the ego as more of what it's connotated with like I had a conversation with an older generation Lee I was like well you just need to step back and look at your ego a little bit just like observe it's like well I don't have an ego okay well not really not the definition I was looking for so it prompted me to write down this question it's really just the self that you identify with but it's not necessarily the true self I would think that it's and it's different with everyone you're with as well like you could be different with other people and that's just your projection of who you

[00:02:11] Spencer: Are right and what you're about but it's not certainly you don't always have to hold on to it's a it's a very abstract concept that's not quite always easy to grasp but once you get a hold of it I see it more so if you were the media the question that pops into my mind is ego versus self I mean what it seems kinda like you're talking about like this is me like what are you saying you know the people who are listening are gonna say you're just talking about who I say that I am right my name i'm ashleigh like what do you mean I'm Ashley and I'm 14 and I Drive a pink bug that's me what the self and ego there's a little bit of a branch there yes so I would say that the ego is um what you

[00:02:57] Jacob: Would most strongly identify as in

[00:03:00] Spencer: General okay so like all these anchoring physical things like I Drive this is what I do like I'm a rapper or this is my career like these things are external things then you're anchoring your yourself too but aren't necessarily

[00:03:17] Jacob: You right yeah I always liked the you

[00:03:21] Spencer: May know this analogy and Sam Harris used it and I think waking up or one of

[00:03:26] Jacob: His books essentially if you a car if you take a car and you completely strip it down completely strip it out every single part laid out in front of you like where's the car dis where's the car

[00:03:41] Spencer: There's another one it's a few of a boat and you replace every piece one of the time until it has all new pieces is it the same boat yeah exactly

[00:03:50] Jacob: And so we think of you know are our memories the things that we own the clothes that we wear we think of that as that's who we are but it's very hard to define yeah and I think that's why it's so difficult to find you go and explain it to people because it's very much so an extremely abstract concept but in its it's much more fluid than people would let on or that most people think like you feel like you know this is who I am this is exactly what I am but it would always be changing and it's something that introspection helps you to notice quite a bit definitely is and I feel like um I

[00:04:32] Spencer: Can only do that in silence too because

[00:04:35] Jacob: Like a constant noise all the time like always listening to something I never actually get interact with it or myself I'm just kind of careening through my day yeah what so what do you do you

[00:04:47] Spencer: Are you talking like meditation this helps you even get going check even just driving with no music just if you're in a headspace to take inventory I guess

[00:04:57] Jacob: Have your own mental processes like that just like that little chatter will keep you away from you digging into this and

[00:05:06] Spencer: I feel like that's why we're so far

[00:05:09] Jacob: Removed from seeing it because it's so

[00:05:12] Spencer: Easy to be stimulated yeah and I notice

[00:05:16] Jacob: It sometimes too because I'm always listening to stuff like podcasts music yeah you know I can't even think a walk to the next room sometimes days it's so unfortunate because like it my phone dies to write aside hey I'm gonna drive to work no music today like the amount it's almost like 10 up like what is what has been holding back like all the stuff that it's been weighing like on me just is it's kind of released over 20 minutes and like wow I mean I just got me and I think about and if I did this for more than 20 minutes like if I just didn't have any stimulus for today how much would I mentally get done like how much what I figure out about myself if I wasn't always distracted right I think that what happens though is the

[00:05:57] Spencer: The barrier that our ego creates kind of when silence happens when there's silence the barrier that our ego is creating like reaffirming who we think we are through our phone or through our distractions whatever breaks down it's like silence is like okay well now it's time to bring these things up but let's picture reality here well and I'd ripped it off a little bit so back to the ego I really it like instagrams a very good representation of I preferred saying avatar than eCos a little easier to grasp I mean at least for me like this person that you are on the Internet that's a definitely a form of you go like you're projecting this like this is who I am this is my avatar this would I want you to see me but it's very curated and it's really never how people are yeah it's not right it's who we think we're well it's who we think other people think that we are so we're

[00:06:50] Jacob: Dance yeah we're dancing so the thing about

[00:06:54] Spencer: Ego though is it starts for me it

[00:06:57] Jacob: Seems like in time I talk about it with somebody who doesn't fully understand which you know me two years ago I feel

[00:07:02] Spencer: Like I didn't understand the word ego fully and I you know I thought that I did but there's an offensiveness to it so I feel like when you say like oh your ego or the there seems to be this ownership your ego that people it's silly because when they get offended if you say ego or someone stops listening when you see using the word ego or bring it up it's their ego that is putting that structure out so everybody has an ego Spencer and is it I feel like I've read about it being kind of a primitive so it's something that's left over from evolution right something to keep us safe does that make any sense to you it's definitely a defense mechanism to some degree especially though like the incessant guarding of it like being able we as humans really just don't like change and it's the ego can be incredibly fluid if we allow it to be you can be essentially whatever you would like to be and whatever you want to project but it's very scary to do that and to let go

[00:08:03] Jacob: Of like who you are these things that define you them because now it's even if these things are harmful to you thinking about being someone else doing something

[00:08:13] Spencer: Else is very hard I mean you hear people all the time say well like I can't quit my job and go do this thing like why can't you like why can't you be someone new yeah so I feel like as a society

[00:08:23] Jacob: It's extremely frowned upon to change in general which i think is a big cause of the problem yeah we're kind of always taught that we're born to be who we are you know like and it's like oh my problems I got to deal with them so everybody's got to deal with them it's kind of locks in who we think we are and I think the social connotation to the literal world ego is pretty rough to like you mentioned earlier just because it's connotated in a very poor light usually

[00:08:51] Spencer: Thank you oh you've got a big ego yeah it kinda I feel like when I hear the word ego I picture some like some cocky dude right I think that was my own that's how I always used to think authority go I'm some dude who talks about himself too much I'm like oh he's egotistical or oh he's got a big ego I mean that's I mean that whole phrasing of how he used to how I used to use the word ego is just entirely incorrect it doesn't it doesn't grasp or explain what it is at all it's very ego is I think every single human on earth needs to understand ego is something that is very gripping to a lot of us and

[00:09:29] Jacob: Just to participate in society and

[00:09:33] Spencer: Culture of today your ego is something that you have to have like it's you have to have it in check to be successful I think to be forgiving and not get caught up in every single every single Kalp **** that you step it and every single little argument that someone is challenging who they who you think you are yeah I think that ego is

[00:09:56] Jacob: One of the most important things to fully grasp I think that even you know if you gain if listeners if you gain in

[00:10:04] Spencer: Some sort of insightfulness from just listening to us talk about a you go I really encourage you to dive further into the word ego there's plenty of YouTube videos plenty of searching the word what is searching what is ego on Google the first thing that comes up is just wonderful I for sure I remember doing it so yeah man so ego is kind of quite a crazy thing I think how

[00:10:30] Jacob: Have you besides silence Spencer how

[00:10:33] Spencer: Have you navigated your ego like as you understand the concept of the word as you understand yours the people around you how do you navigate ego I mean it really starts with I mean we're gonna get to another word but a mindfulness practice or a meditation because in order to I can change behavior you must notice it first right and if you never get to the point of noticing it's just moved like that's not it's not even on your radar so just um when I'm navigating my daily life I mean a lot of time it's in hindsight as well this is just very easy to just instinctively react to things and just uh no be who you are in

[00:11:12] Jacob: Quotes I guess but I will catch myself at the end of the day thinking about just the actions not in like a poor life but just like how did this affect me throughout the day and like how did it change my social interactions right yeah I mean it's really good to be introspective at the end of the day I think that's where I find myself I used to I mean I used to just not have a handle on my depression all and so I would be introspective about my day right at the end of the day and I'd be like dude you suck this you suck at this but it was you know it was the real me

[00:11:42] Spencer: Disagreeing with like what my ego self

[00:11:44] Jacob: Was doing out in the real world or you know saying or talking about like things that I'm just like huh I didn't really want to act that particular way or whatever it may be I think a lot of like depression what not really comes from not I mean the true self is like a big ideological concept that might not even be a real thing but like acting in a way that doesn't abide by that and then like you said realizing that is young it's going to make you upset and it's something like primal internal

[00:12:13] Spencer: Degree like you're just not the way you navigate yourself with other people is just not in tune with who you are though like the frequency you give but being

[00:12:23] Jacob: Aware of it and being introspective and

[00:12:27] Spencer: Just you know whether it's taken the end of your night whether it's meditating wherever you can fit it in what meditation does is it puts a little wedge in between to where when situations happen you could be like no I don't want to act that way or oh my mind is my mind is thinking like crazy and I just noticed that it was mindfulness teaches you that's go for sure so let's actually talk about mindfulness - yes so you give me your definition of mop well let's Jake

[00:12:59] Jacob: At all times we're thinking at all times there's a million thoughts going through our minds noting knowing that and

[00:13:07] Spencer: Noticing that our two things that are profound once you realize that you can do that I went 26 years of my life without really having mindfulness knowing that at all times my mind is going a million miles a minute I thought that whatever word whatever feeling whatever blah comes in that's what happens but being mindful of I guess the fact that I'm thinking all the times is mindfulness at the root for me what do you think about that definition I like it a lot I mean I really like to look at like a third point perspective like a third-person perspective on yourself so like in accordance to your thoughts so you don't really get to choose what you think but you definitely need to choose what you hang on to and mindfulness like

[00:13:56] Jacob: You said just puts that wedge in there and you instead of like that guttural instinct reaction to something and then following it like anger is an easy one to pick on because it's so like volatile and very easy to like see like this was not a feeling that you chose to feel but it's a feeling that you chose to feed so if you've you're

[00:14:17] Spencer: Mindful you can realize that you just fed that instead of just feeding it and asking for forgiveness later and then also on the his same headspace you really just get a look at way why am i angry likewise it's upsetting to me do I have am i rightfully angry or am i angry because I'm protecting my Who I am my ego which can be very fragile and it's very easy to somebody to say something's off putting to you and it's usually something that's probably critical when you probably need to hear usually the things we get really mad about or usually stuff yeah we're trying to

[00:14:48] Jacob: Protect ourselves from pain at all times

[00:14:52] Spencer: Right in our minds our brain is trying to protect ourselves so it doesn't want us to hurt if we accept those things about ourselves so we really live those true meet beings a lot of times that hurts and so our ego is projecting out kind of the opposite or we're like defending like of course I'm not like that because if you were like that it would hurt a lot and so your ego is like almost a little scorpion tail it's always working well you're like while you're looking down there's a scorpion tails that snap in people get sure they don't hurt you and I really think uh like this with realizing the ego also helps you did not feel so bad when you introspect you're mindful of yourself you're like wow this is really not acceptable behavior nice like usually if you if you've got a very strong sense of self that's gonna feel really bad because it's like it's an attack on your identity but if you can like hey I'm not the person that I think I am I'm like this fluid being and then you react in a certain way or something is very off-putting or upsetting to you mm-hmm instead of instead of the guard you to

[00:15:52] Spencer: Look at why like why am I upset about this why did this why's is off-putting to me and then stead of being like a beat up by the fact that you got upset by it you not can really realize okay this is how I'm gonna do better like this is this is the thought process that got me here and this is why it's unacceptable but I'm okay with that exactly I mean not isn't like a contentment but it's a I'm not gonna beat myself up over it aside yet I do see a lot of people that they're like anxious or depressed or have like pretty deep-seated issues and if they just start like digging through that it just feels bad and we will always try to

[00:16:32] Jacob: Avoid pain like all your biology is set up to just avoid paying our society is set up to opinion yeah the blog of happiness so I've actually done recent research and it used to be pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain and it's actually just avoidance of pain like that's a one thing that you do like pleasure is a part of that yeah because it's the opposite but it is 100 percent mmm almost all of your decisions or to avoid well it's funny you can narrow all you can follow all like pain annoyance

[00:17:02] Spencer: Boredom it all goes back to let's say

[00:17:06] Jacob: Fear right I mean it's these emotions

[00:17:09] Spencer: And it's I feel like when you just follow it back like of course I don't want to feel this because at my core being all I want is the best for myself like I don't want to get mad and ruin my life because I yelled at someone like why would I want that I want the best for myself

[00:17:23] Jacob: So we have a lot of you know I guess

[00:17:31] Spencer: Posturing that's a very good words yeah it's yeah our society is just so full of

[00:17:38] Jacob: Posturing it's funny I said I always try not to use the word society and culture alert because I just feel like people are in a widget a tinfoil hat on my head but I don't know I think that it is I mean why else are we having this conversation right it's something that's important for our culture our society to know right now and be aware of because I you know I'm victim to it

[00:18:00] Spencer: Myself I have an ego I haven't always been mindful I can always be more mindful some days if I miss my morning meditation I'm like great I mean it's mindful today maybe I'm gonna let my emotions get the best of me like and of course I don't want that so it just happens to everybody we got to work on it and I feel like it's very much so

[00:18:18] Jacob: It's such a Western problem it's like Buddhism and Hinduism I mean I don't agree with Hinduism like that like the overarching structure of it yeah but in Eastern culture the emphasis on introspection is very much so held to a high degree and we in the West not so much like whenever you speak to old people especially their like their sense of self and their egos is just so stout mm-hm it's so incredibly inflexible and you notice it I mean in their political views like they're just are so unwilling to change and it's um it's actually very

[00:18:54] Spencer: Unfortunate to see people that are very old that live their whole lives and never been able to like break the mold like who I am right yeah well I think

[00:19:03] Jacob: That what's happening though is we've had you know the two generations like that are happening you know at the boot of technology like what's happening is this huge separation between these two generations who have like we love technology like let's say us and I know us being like the top of the younger people and then the people were like four years older than us who also kind of got technology too right like the separation between our three generations and old people say 60 years old who are

[00:19:33] Spencer: Definitive in their ways very political

[00:19:37] Jacob: That separation because of the

[00:19:40] Spencer: Technology is like this very apparent

[00:19:42] Jacob: And what's really putting a wedge

[00:19:45] Spencer: Between that the conversation that needs to be happening that's like an open conversation where it can actually talk to each other is the ego and it's weird because it seems like it's the ego old people have a huge ego but also there's young people who are doing what we're doing very wrong there's a young people who are also having huge egos who are thinking like they're just throwing away every single thing little people say just because they have a posturing you know let's dance against these people so there's two different versions of ego with three different generations that are going to head-to-head and it's just weird it's funny because what old people told us the internet would do to our brains it did to them they just they will believe everything because it's like oh it's gonna melt your brain like you're gonna believe all these crazy things like they have incredibly poor opinions because they can't censor egay because they've been they just haven't taken so little information compared to us and they haven't live in a world where they have like a massive distrust or like a government and establishment so they're very much so very status quo - so it's

[00:20:46] Jacob: Like it is so we're so polar opposites but I really tried to not I trying to

[00:20:52] Spencer: Not be upset a device ever like young team young people it's like I generally feel very bad for these people no it's terrible I think well I mean you and I were talking about this even before the podcast is the nature of our

[00:21:06] Jacob: Being whether we want it to be or not I think is a bit of an advocate a bit of a moderator a bit of a you know if there's two people arguing who clearly are just misunderstanding each other's opinion or what the essence of what they mean is we are the type to try to be like oh no just listen here's what you mean here's what you mean now have a conversation so I think that you know I guess yeah you

[00:21:30] Spencer: Us having these conversations is it's important a definition of terms and that's why I wanted to start with that - is the definition terms is so incredibly important when you're speaking about things because two people can be arguing the same point with different terms and be upset at each other absolutely that is not very helpful it's so foolish it seems like and now that I think the more that I learn and the more that I can really see it the more that I sharpened that tool of this skill like watching like Oh what does this person really mean and really trying to understand people you see it man it's like it's the essence of like most problems and again ego is what

[00:22:03] Jacob: Is just guarding us from just letting go and be like hey listen what the **** to you just let me listen to you for an hour what do you really mean here because if you just let someone talk if you get rid of your posturing your

[00:22:17] Spencer: Stance your ego and you just learn from someone talking you actually start to see things eye-to-eye and realize you're talking about a lot the same things and sometimes I mean you see a lot of political problems and like there's always give you have a hard political leaning the other side is gonna complain about stuff and it's probably the same problems you have it's just framed differently incredibly differently like they just have a wrong scapegoat for it that isn't yours so it's like we are all people together that have to live in this in a society like these are not like the reason that life is hard is not these old people like okay boomer is really funny like I think okay boomer is one of the funny things wrong but it's super not helpful because it causes divisive nosara inherent problem like they're your grandparents they're another problem like that we have systemic issues that they didn't cause like they have to deal with all the same **** that you do so they're just I mean their kin they're kind of thrown into this **** just as we are I think that we're like don't you understand that this is not real and they're like we don't know what else to do either so

[00:23:19] Spencer: We're just gonna stand here with our thing one how can you ever expect them

[00:23:23] Jacob: To just adapt to instead of so

[00:23:29] Spencer: I've read a statistic and it's like our grandparents or people above the age of 80 we've taken in more information by 25 years than they did for like 70 years I think they can adapt to that it's so incredible it's overwhelming for me and I am I try to read as much as possible and taking a lot information it's overwhelming so I can't imagine how these people feel on their age when they're not adapted to this well they're gonna feel like their usefulness has been kind of dried up right like you don't call your grandma to like hey what's the recipe for this you just look it up online and there's probably a better recipe than your grandma gave you nowadays that's a weird how do we cope with **** like that and I'm hard-pressed to say that their wisdom it's actually just it's not it's not the best because we have the internet and people they grew up in a society that didn't value introspection or any of these things and then not no fault of their own it's just not part of the culture here and they've just been fed like one news source like

[00:24:28] Spencer: All this information and force-fed to them and they've just been like this well they got there's no other objective reality for them so even their wisdom is just not as helpful now so the one thing you're supposed to have when your role this must be old wise man which I think being aged and being wise are two different things but the stereotypical person is wise of course and the Internet has profound amounts of wisdom

[00:24:50] Jacob: That they have kid barely like grass some of them this is a very large blanket statement but no Michael horse Utley soon yeah a lot of the whole people are run into I feel like that probably feels really bad like the one thing mm-hmm because old wise man teach my kids all this stuff it's like it'd be wonderful to have that the internet just does it so much better yeah I mean you read all these books you know and then you discover that like reading three books you pretty much get the summarizations of that by one sixteen-year-old kid watching a documentary on Netflix like well those three books took me four weeks and that took him four d four minutes so I mean not that it's the exact same information but I was just thinking of a of an analogy like because I can't say that where you and I get our information where we get our truth where we get our news is perfectly more truthful and more reliable than where they get theirs but we also do and know a thing or two we know like a lot of the news networks that I mean the news that is you know

[00:25:54] Jacob: Fox News CBS I don't really even know any of these I'm not saying pinpointing exactly but it's fed one wormhole of information like this is what you care about at all times and now there's 24-hour news there's something that's breaking there's something that's worth watching at all times so I was thinking when we say like hey this isn't the only truth like when we're trying to explain to old people who are you know watching the same news stations as they have been for 25 years saying like hey this is biased this isn't the whole picture there's a whole world this whatever imagine if we walked in when there was only TVs before the internet and we walked into someone's home they're sitting around family dinner six of them and you're like hey what you're watching on this TV right now I know that's the president but that's false that is wrong he's lying it's not true they'd be like what the **** are you talking about of course this is true this is the most true thing ever so the way that we get our truth in this world has been completely compromised and old people there's no anything cope with that's on they just have not been I

[00:26:58] Spencer: Mean the blanket statement yeah being skeptical is a it's a skill you gotta work up you don't just like all of a sudden don't believe anything right and these people didn't have to do it like why would the news lie like there's a very much so a systemic I mean all the news is set up to just piss them off and cause divisive news and I think that's why okay boomer is funny but also upsetting because we're just adding to that what's the okay boomer okay so

[00:27:29] Jacob: Okay boomer is like that come back for when old people say like ridiculous stuff or like they have just terrible political opinions like it's a big name you know okay boomer like this is like the Stonewall Forum in it's like going

[00:27:42] Spencer: Over right now which is funny it's objectively pretty funny but it's deadlies it's great we can't be upset of those people like we have to have incredible empathy for people to like what are we saying like our opinions is because we're like I'm no important no more important than other humans like we're all living here we have to figure out how we can I just think that the device in is a problem and I actually wanted to go over us versus them yeah us versus them mentality is not like that it's just incredibly I mean that's a one of the biggest ones I see is young people versus old people especially because the political sphere is getting very heated right now because the elections coming out like there's so much divisive NISS and there's a lot of like corporate energy entities that make a lot of money from divisive nests mm-hmm so when we just like eat that all day it's very easy to be angry like oh those are the other guys like it's like the caveman brain just wants the enemy right they want

[00:28:35] Spencer: Like an actual eyes like this person's the problem their opinions are bad and I'm going to do everything against this person we have justice because we can once we get that person we can make them feel bad and so we just got a rise above

[00:28:49] Jacob: That I really try to not do that

[00:28:52] Spencer: It's extremely hard because I really think the whole people have terrible opinions I really disagree with almost everything they believe in but I can't

[00:29:01] Jacob: They can't let that dictate how I treat individual people yeah I mean that's an us-versus-them right things

[00:29:08] Spencer: Like the self is extremely important and when you're in groups like that groupthink and that big like I feel good I got my tribe behind me all these people we all like hate is so much more rallying than love it's easier and like the corporatism especially in like Western culture really sells that to everyone us versus them is sold to us every single day I feel super bad I was

[00:29:34] Jacob: It's funny it's this left you know it does say politics is a great example red and wine door left and right it's like you don't have to choose one of them you don't have to talk about a person as if that summarizes exactly where they are in their entire being because that creates right away that even our political system and its core creates an us-versus-them conversation and so I was thinking though so like we're having conversation were saying oh we're young people and they're old people I also think that there's a nervousness there's a weirdness in like the Western cultural

[00:30:10] Spencer: Language where us versus them is even kind of a weirdo thing to talk about when I so I was just thinking about race

[00:30:17] Jacob: So if I'm saying talking about a black man like saying black male or saying like Mexican so like race for example talking about me versus them like as a

[00:30:27] Spencer: White man saying Mexican or a black

[00:30:30] Jacob: Person that seems weird coming out of my mouth like it feels like I'm not used to talking about it or considering us versus them out loud

[00:30:41] Spencer: Conveying differences but we seem so we like ignore that conversation and we're like we're all equal in that sense we don't even talk about like I could we're just people I'm not black you're not white we're just people we have that but

[00:30:54] Jacob: Then when it comes to political ****

[00:30:56] Spencer: It's so fast to just it's so comfortable to say oh you're a left-wing or you're a right-wing or whatever so our conversation is so we're down are so aggravating there are so incredibly aggravating to talk about because if you just have strong opinions and somebody is a divisive Lee opposing you then it's like this is what I think the good of all people is gonna be and you have somebody else who thinks the opposite of that it's inherently just gonna cause some friction right and then it's just you get the mob mentality then you go find spaces where there echo chambers and people only believe what you believe and these ideas proliferate they get more radical more radical and then you have like two entities of people that could not be more diametrically opposed yeah who are there solidified in a

[00:31:45] Jacob: Belief I believe this you guys believe this we are that but then it's like in 10 years like what

[00:31:51] Spencer: Are you still that like if you look back and I go what was I doing exactly 10 years ago on this day I could just stop and think about yourself at that moment cuz you're gonna be like oh I was representing that entire thing saying that was my entire being that's my whole that's who I am that's what I'm gonna fight against the opposite of and this really goes back to the ego as well because I mean you see it a lot in like I mean sell a tree of all kinds but especially religious zealotry because it's a belief that you've attached to yourself and now anybody that's refuting it is attacking you and not a concept

[00:32:19] Jacob: Right and that's very like people are dangerous yes it's really dangerous and if you can not identify with that a

[00:32:28] Spencer: Personal level and like as a concept

[00:32:31] Jacob: It's very helpful like because then when

[00:32:34] Spencer: You're it's you don't get like that ape reaction to like oh there this is who I am they're attacking my beliefs he's like they're defensive they're taking an idea and I've gotten a lot of mileage out of not telling people which way I lean in just talking about ideas and concepts hey this is this is the problem we're like policy I guess this is the problem let's converse about it and I won't tell people hi lien and that you will get so much further with people if you can like just do that right I think so I definitely agree with that but I also think that it's has become okay to be in a constant state of contempt and say that's a personality and so a lot of times like oh I'm so open to your opinion right and then as you're talking I'm like mmhmm I'm making faces I'm doing like that though again politics Donald Trump does that like the weird like oh I'm not believing what you're saying you're not actually listening you're solidifying I am this stance against your stance and so we can't get anywhere from that so I mean

[00:33:38] Jacob: Even just listening the US versus them

[00:33:41] Spencer: Requires you to dissolve that requires

[00:33:44] Jacob: Everyone to be a better listener and being a better listener means your body language your face you're like just

[00:33:51] Spencer: Listen and let them talk to that's another huge thing I do want to I do want to really the just the US versus them thing like that what so what how would you define I guess just even that

[00:34:05] Jacob: Sense us versus them because I think it's a huge thing that we should definitely know it helps a lot of our

[00:34:14] Spencer: Conversations I think it's really just

[00:34:17] Jacob: Like that it's just a classic tribalism you know like it goes back to those caveman days when people that don't look like you from another tribe they're like come to kill you tickler stuff like we just haven't we've ideologically and

[00:34:32] Spencer: Technologically grown so fast but we

[00:34:35] Jacob: Haven't shaken like how like your

[00:34:38] Spencer: Humanity and what we once were so trying to navigate that on like myself from SPRO yeah it's very hard to be passive fires as he as he texted me this morning phones are the great pacifier people so versus that when we're having these conversations so how do we when people

[00:34:59] Jacob: Are listening because you know even listening so say are this the previous part of the conversation my old people if I was an older person I would be like wouldn't you don't know whatever like you're talking about me like whatever you start to get a stance instead of just listening and trying to let them explain so dissolving

[00:35:16] Spencer: The us first them mentality I mean how mindfulness again I guess I think it really comes down to humanizing people true it's so easy to dehumanize somebody that doesn't believe what you believe to like a very extreme degree mm-hmm it's like oh and then you label them like the

[00:35:32] Jacob: The caveman brain and it's actually very

[00:35:34] Spencer: Novel and good that we're extremely good at categorizing things like as humans like you I mean it's just how he says that's how we survived like you see a snake some snakes are poisonous so this snake is poisonous or venomous rather and you just believe that so you put things in boxes and you can pump analyze them we start doing that to people it does not lead to very helpful conversation mm-hm and just looking at people like from where they're coming from I guess like meeting people where they're at essentially because there's a reason they're upset mm-hmm and it's probably not what they're talking about like they somebody either fed this to them as a solution to a problem they have that you also probably have like trying to understand the root of someone's pain will help a lot in this

[00:36:20] Jacob: Yeah go ahead and that requires a very

[00:36:24] Spencer: Very large deal of empathy and it's also hard to give that to people you disagree with and but these are a tough one

[00:36:32] Jacob: Though because I think that you know the news the world of news is also empathy is a weird thing I think we misunderstand empathy and sympathy

[00:36:45] Spencer: Feeling other people's pain is not super healthy all the time because then it gets us like it makes us pick up this pitchfork like I will avenge you sort of gives it the kind of hits that core of our being so being empathetic is super we can talk about that in another podcast but I yeah but so sympathy want one thing that I do for that is like how I'm able to be empathetic towards everyone I feel in my meditations I always think of people throughout their whole life so I was like okay I'm say the subject is someone that you've had a disagreement with and so I bring that person to mine and I think about them five years ago

[00:37:29] Jacob: Like what were they doing on you know maybe they were just getting their license maybe they were a young kid then ten years ago oh they were a teenager oh they were a kid you think of someone as a whole being you know they've had a whole life they have a mother there's

[00:37:43] Spencer: These things that they're trying to protect right they have a family at home when their argument with you is just trying to make sure that **** doesn't go straight right like the essence of them is to just stay safe just like it is for you and so I think for me like in meditations and then just kind of think about it once in a while when you have an argument or talking to somebody like man this **** has had a whole life they fit a baby they were a baby that's who they were they were a baby they got a mom I really uh so there's a

[00:38:15] Jacob: Full ideal I'd you earn a philosophy

[00:38:18] Spencer: Called determinism and it's basically

[00:38:21] Jacob: Predicated upon the fact that uh okay so the universe explodes and everything from then hasn't led to you where you're at now and you haven't got to chose choose any of that so if it's like nature versus nurture like that's what people say like that's the argument you don't really get to choose either of those things and you will instinctively react to your environment anyways so you you haven't got to really choose who you are and how you got to where you are it's just like almost by happenstance right so looking at other people like if I was this person I would be exactly the same way exactly his is incredibly

[00:38:55] Spencer: Humanizing and it's it for me has led to

[00:38:58] Jacob: A very large degree of empathy just for

[00:39:02] Spencer: Everyone even people that I'd like you can't even fathom how they came to conclusion they did or the way that they are the way they are but then thinking I mean I would be the same way if I was them yeah like you know you're gonna have that instant so that's the thing as so mindfulness puts a wedge in that instant reaction so what we're talking about here is everybody has these reactions of like you're an absolute idiot what are you talking about we're like this you immediately compartmentalize someone into them they know less than I do they

[00:39:31] Jacob: Know they're wrong but at the essence of what's going on that you're just misunderstanding each other so when you can see someone as a whole being and you

[00:39:43] Spencer: Can practice mindfulness to put the wedge in and be like okay I can feel this anxiety raising up I can feel this anger raising up I'm not gonna let that anger control what's coming out of my mouth I'm gonna stop and listen to them let them talk I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna wait for them to explain what they really mean not just the words that they're saying and intent is incredibly important and we lose that a lot I really think because the ego like you

[00:40:14] Jacob: You want to get the equipment like you want to own this guy that you feel so good doesn't it oh you're wrong I'm right and it's just is so reassuring but

[00:40:23] Spencer: That is not helpful rhetoric and it's not helpful for anyone involved it just usually if you want if you want to change someone opinion you can't do that like because they will always double down every single time to protect their own ego so you would just I mean I would do the exact same thing so if you can facilitate people to just kind of leech it out of them like get them to explain themselves even if even wouldn't if they're done you really still don't disagree with them at least you can now have a more open dialogue and maybe changing their mind because the moment you get on that back foot the front of your brain that does a lot of cognitive reasoning shuts off and just the stem will fire and that's just caveman protection instincts right so if you can keep people from like that fight-or-flight response when you're talking to them you'll get a lot further mm-hmm and noticing when you've locked

[00:41:12] Jacob: Into that same response you're if you're being defensive yourself just I love being upset I do I love being politically outraged especially right afterwards you don't you own someone an argument you like I felt good I've been really been trying to get away from doing it because it does feel great like it's a hard not to you something **** helpful it's so not helpful and when you look at like we're all in this together like witness we all got a navigate life like this person is trying their best I'm sure they have probably very similar problems to me right it's just not helpful discourse and it will further divide people and not doing that is extremely helpful mm-hmm yeah that's all super

[00:41:54] Spencer: Important man I'm glad that we can kind

[00:41:57] Jacob: Of summarize things and hopefully you know that's certainly what I want to be doing over time this is defining things a little better in allowing people to slow down and you know because a lot of what we're having trouble doing in our conversations in today's world is

[00:42:15] Spencer: Even getting to the conversation because we even we hit these barriers of like the oh you're wearing a red hat with that while riding on it like I'm not even gonna let you speak but it's just

[00:42:28] Jacob: Stopping things so explaining things and

[00:42:32] Spencer: Really helping us see each other as humans and just humanizing conversation to where we can actually talk to each other and realize like yeah we're vastly different we think way different things but we're also with you hurling through

[00:42:44] Jacob: **** space on this big ol rock dude once you really think about the absurdity of this existing it's like boils everything down to just me it's just like such a non-issue feeling like we're spinning around a stone that's hurling through the universe mm-hmm with a galaxy that's also hurtling through the universe and like this petty argument it just is so not important mm-hmm in its you know it's at the end

[00:43:13] Spencer: Of even just your small short life you know each of us we're going to there will be even the same laughing moment right like oh man that was so petty you're not gonna kind of think goodness I own that mo **** leftist in that argument when I was 28 I mean just

[00:43:31] Jacob: What's important to you know a bunch of stuff oh the phones are the greater dual pacifier oh I definitely want to dip into that what is your to see text me that this morning

[00:43:43] Spencer: I think of that too it's funny this podcast I feel like a lot of my episodes have been just like social media sucks and phones are evil and all this stuff like I mean I'm addicted to all these things too and I have my ways of branching with them as well but so explain to me how my phone is a pacifier okay well if you anyone goes to dinner in the u. s. you see everyone on their

[00:44:07] Jacob: Phone mm-hmm and another thing we didn't

[00:44:10] Spencer: Touch on with meditation is it just cause you to be present and the phone is the opposite of being present and I've noticed that it's really it detracted for my life and relationships and it's led me with and the dopamine tick is so important I get so bored so fast from being so stimulated that I can't enjoy stuff ever I can't enjoy mottely it's

[00:44:31] Jacob: Extremely hard to enjoy just

[00:44:34] Spencer: My everyday moments because I'm so used to just being blasted with information I know I mean it's we're constantly we have everything we ever want and then that's the truth of life though is everything ever want is never enough so so the present moment certainly pulls us away or the phone pulls us away from the present moment what you wanted to find the present moment let's make sure that's clear yeah it really is I mean it's quite literally now and you can let it slip very easily by not paying attention to it or not being mindful of it mm-hmm like when you sit on Instagram and like sometimes gramma just look at **** posts look at memes and just like in take a little laughs you get a little dopamine hit every time you click but it's not actually satisfying it's just pacifying like this is not when I have this realization so I was almost YouTube for like five hours a day like in taking helpful information but it's still it's just way too much information to me and I will find myself

[00:45:36] Spencer: Down the down the rabbit hole just watching soap water stuff and then I like set my phone I'm like what do I really care about like what like what would I be doing right now if I wasn't doing this there's definitely something that is more constructive because YouTube didn't just throw me down this what would I care about yeah like I there's things that I do that bring me much more joy than this and I'm choosing to do this right now and I chooses to do this a lot I feel like others do as well and

[00:46:00] Jacob: It really detracts from all right

[00:46:04] Spencer: But it put you pulls you out of the present moment I mean but that's the thing as a lot of times you're learning you know well you're enjoying like of course I'm pulled out the present moment I'm enjoying my life I'm enjoying this thing like so why would the why is the present moment even important than Spencer if we're just feeling better when we're doing six hours of YouTube because ultimately not constructive at

[00:46:26] Jacob: To a point yes seek your knowledge learn new things but there's a point of over stimulation and what you just cannot take anything else and I find myself in this abilities quite a bit or I've just very much so over blasted with information and it's like the little

[00:46:41] Spencer: Stuff like if you're watching YouTube and around your door like that sweet like decaying fall smell of all the dead leaves like there's so many things that are beautiful on mundane the

[00:46:54] Jacob: 100% look over you never gonna get back just because you're staring on your phone right you know so but that's funny the you know this smell of the leaves even that so that's something I think

[00:47:07] Spencer: That our ego helps us say like oh I'm just not into that sort of thing right like you say like oh I'm not I'm not a fall person or I'm not I don't like the

[00:47:18] Jacob: Outside or blah but these are like naturally healing I think these are just being a human it's important to connect these things we get you know oxygen and breath from the outside from the trees the being pulled

[00:47:34] Spencer: Constantly out of the present moment

[00:47:38] Jacob: Seems so you know doesn't seem like a

[00:47:41] Spencer: Big deal when this is better I'm holding up my phone here holding up my phone is better than reality right like so if your life sucks at home the present moment isn't is it nice this is a nice thing to escape from

[00:47:55] Jacob: Right but I think we're a little confused about what the present that the present is like we think of it like hear what the here's my reality not slowing down and being like really breaking apart what it smells like in this room you know what it what are the intricacies of how things feel and in using our senses to really breathe in and stop and slow down and stop thinking so much and read that in

[00:48:24] Spencer: And that's really a core tenet of meditation as well it's just like anchoring the five senses and just taking note of sensory input I don't know if that's how you meditate but yeah a lot of the time I really admire table eyes open mm-hmm cuz it's just this is nice a lot of people have good success with eyes open I'm not someone who has slit eyes open but a ton of people that you do very well with eyes open that patient I got to be really on top of meditating every day till I can get to the point where it's productive because I mean you get the twitch pick up your phone do it like anything these little obtrude ins under your consciousness you're like your stream of reality and they just make you want to not do what you're doing like there's something so uncomfortable about doing nothing and I feel like the old iPhone is a big part of that the old pacifier and I mean that's really one of this he mean you see like kids not being parented like even I am criminally under present my

[00:49:19] Jacob: Like relationship like my love relationship all right all right and just because I mean once you get really comfortable people when you see it at dinner tables you just well I know I

[00:49:30] Spencer: Know how they feel we talked about all

[00:49:33] Jacob: The things but so that's the thing

[00:49:35] Spencer: Is to search for the present moment and make sure you're always in the present so I have that same thing because I used to be on my phone so much more often than I am now and I'll have moments where I'm like shaven I'll both be on her phone for like let's say a minute at dinner yesterday literally at Applebee's we were on our phones and I have moments now because I've kind of trained myself like oh let's lock back in that present moment I'll put my phone down and um I'll just you know try to think of something like a tie game if a meteor hit right now babe what would you do like what do you think would happen and you know all sudden you have a 20-minute wonderful conversation you know so exploring wonder talking about like you

[00:50:11] Jacob: Could even be like hey what do you think like would you ever adopt a kid you know have those conversations just I think that we also use the phone for things to

[00:50:22] Spencer: Talk right I mean it's gossip is man that's something I'm really trying to break apart I'm reading a you've all know her oddities sapiens right now and he's talking about gossip oh man I'm not super far into it but it's so good so it's very good but a gossip me and it's

[00:50:38] Jacob: The phone the click culture has

[00:50:42] Spencer: Fueled our gossip too we're pretty much there's entire people who they're never talking about anything other than what's being regurgitating to them like did you hear about this did you hear about this did you about this did you about this man that's that I feel like that's

[00:50:59] Jacob: Almost taking our phone and even though

[00:51:02] Spencer: It's down it's leaving our phone on because we're not in the present moment still we're still carrying on this thing

[00:51:10] Jacob: That's elsewhere over here but but anyway yes so I was trying to round out in your relationship in your like

[00:51:19] Spencer: Even our friendships once in a while dude like you notice like of course we love being on our phone of course red it's great YouTube's great Instagram whatever but once why you gotta be like let's try to be creative here let's try to explore my **** life and not just use the whole thing on my phone put your phone down look at the person across to you say what's happening what's going on you know like let's talk about something in depth and I've personally found it so much more enriching to just have a conversation because what's on this what's on this guy it's really just it's

[00:51:50] Jacob: Never positive new doesn't

[00:51:53] Spencer: Doesn't sell oh you're being sold that

[00:51:57] Jacob: You're inadequate people trying to sell you stuff in the way best way to sell you stuff is to make you feel like you're less than currently so I know if I have this thing I'll be better in all these sites that's just what they're doing and all the gossip I mean it's just programming your brain to also to

[00:52:12] Spencer: Want that for your own life

[00:52:15] Jacob: I mean I've recently take naps every single day and I'll be like watching YouTube and I'll go to sleep and I'll have like pretty vivid dreams that are very similar to what I was watching

[00:52:27] Spencer: And it's really heartened me to believe

[00:52:30] Jacob: That what you intake like weighs so heavily on your subconscious right and if you into just garbage all the time like he said she said I call the celebrity gossip like all this negativity like it really does affect you even if you don't realize it like it really changed who you are and how you react to the world and what you seek out for pleasures well absolutely does so if you go have a really constructive conversation or just like something fun like something playful think that's so much more helpful for you like as a person that's

[00:52:58] Spencer: Staring at that screen right

[00:53:01] Jacob: Yeah it's the screen the phone

[00:53:04] Spencer: Is kind of like that shortcut to

[00:53:07] Jacob: The chemical reaction that happens like so when you if you if you are unaware listener when you pick up your phone and you click on something so if you get the notification ding and you hear that and you immediately pick up your phone and you click like alright got it that is the chemical dopamine is being released new bright and that's how it works you get dopamine from picking up your phone but you also get dopamine from having wonderful conversations you get you get dopamine from what isn't

[00:53:37] Spencer: Dopamine like the reward chemical yes

[00:53:41] Jacob: It's very misunderstood like in like common terms but a root it is the reward he good yeah like checking something off your list like oh I did that thing or I got that thing like I posted that thing and I got this from posting that I did good is it that sort of yeah it's your brains way of rewarding you for doing something that would increase survival chances so like eating dopamine right all these things like sex dopamine yes like all these things I feel really good yes and we've been

[00:54:13] Spencer: Evolutionary like designed to if these things are happening to you and must mean you're doing pretty good because a lot of people have just died like I mean took us a while to have a sustainable culture to where we don't have to worry about just surviving it's like you're doing good you're getting that dopamine good that's what you want is to stay safe and like polios or penicillins less than a hundred years old so as people from just like dying from everything very long like you two people ago you people to go but Oh with a lot of people have ADHD as well from the phone I really believe because that dopamine so all adderall does increase your dopamine levels which inherently allows you to focus because the lack of dopamine people or the brain is set up to seek novelty to feel stimulated right that's why I like if you get into something like music's really good example you can like the real-life hoppy stuff in like four years you're listening to like underground music that's got like 400 followers and he's doing out of the basement like so you will always go more and more and more and more mm-hmm and this constant like blasts of dopamine

[00:55:21] Spencer: Makes it incredibly hard to focus when things are more mundane than that and it's so it's just so much input that

[00:55:28] Jacob: Just sitting seems hard alright it's super hard to focus and it's the that's the thing it's so hard to focus because we're used to you know we kind of when

[00:55:39] Spencer: We're online we kind of let our minds rip you don't have to focus you can look over there's an app there's not oh there's this person unlike that one not quick you we kind of let it rip I feel like sometimes the ADHD brain is kind of

[00:55:50] Jacob: Trained by just the nature of phones yeah even on a neurochemical level I think it's incredibly enhance just because you now live in a heightened state of dopamine go to your phone and then you sit down to read not as

[00:56:04] Spencer: Stimulating not colorful not loud it's

[00:56:06] Jacob: Not so novel right it's very hard well in sit and so that's the thing is finding things that you're interested in that are gossip and what so-and-so is doing and you know that's why we've got to be finding things that were interested in that aren't just negative to us so and so what I mean by that is something that's stimulating so if you're sitting through a lecture of something about music and you love music you're gonna be paying attention you're being tentative but if you're not interested in music at all you're not going to be paying attention so finding

[00:56:44] Spencer: Something that stimulates you other than gossip and passing the time and I feel like we have really gotten the short side of this when it comes to all our hobbies need to be lucrative in general so a lot of them

[00:57:03] Jacob: Are very vain very shallow okay like talking about big concepts and being real interested and like a lot of these things that don't make a lot of money is not very culturally supported they're

[00:57:15] Spencer: Just being sold things right all the time well we're always thinking about the right now right we're thinking of how do we get this right now the soonest how do we enjoy our life for the

[00:57:27] Jacob: Long run and you really feel or see

[00:57:30] Spencer: People like I really wish that uh people didn't shame each other for stuff that they like general because it's like you get the stereotypical like a young person like male or female I think you probably guess what they're into more than likely like what the 80% accuracy I think as we just saw are kind of like this homogenized like this is what's culturally cool there's not a lot of introduction to a lot of like other other things that could be really enriching I think it's a it's a big

[00:58:03] Jacob: Problem yeah it's crazy though

[00:58:12] Spencer: So much I mean it's nice that just this conversation I'm thinking they're just looping back like everything we're talking about you flew back to ego to being mindful these is such important

[00:58:23] Jacob: Concepts it really is such an anchor for everything we've talked about I really think because like you people you know I would say there's nothing more disappointing than meeting someone they're exactly who you think they are just like really normal in like that

[00:58:38] Spencer: Heteronormativity is like so championed right you just got to be normal everyone wants to be normal yeah I was very boring it really is boring to us too yes and we noticed that within ourselves and within each other we know when we're not being our authentic selves we feel it our ego reacts to it and we know when other people aren't being either it puts this weird non trusting in our

[00:59:00] Jacob: Conversation I really think that uh well

[00:59:04] Spencer: Even like Netflix like sitcoms are my favorite example of pacification cuz it's just like it's so comfy that's just the most comfy media it's not challenging which some people can write I my life is extremely easy like I don't have a lot of like real actual issues that I don't cause for myself so like all my problems are my fault and fully aware of that so it's probably nice to come home after like a long day that was pretty **** and like watch a sitcom but that is like just like a baby food for your brain it is like it's just a some people also don't really like to research like that's a personality type definitely I'd like to be like challenged in that way and so it's hard for me to empathize with them because it's like that's all I really enjoy it's just like new really crunchy

[00:59:47] Jacob: Information right we both love the

[00:59:50] Spencer: Novelty yeah but then I think that your personality becomes the office then and you get this extremely homogenized person from it right like just from the media that we consume as young people like you like this is my sense of humor we're all under these like pretty bland

[01:00:07] Jacob: Things that just like help us pass time

[01:00:10] Spencer: And never really questioned anything or

[01:00:13] Jacob: Anything grand but what we don't see is right beneath our eyes as we're doing these things they're becoming who we are you know if you do the same thing every day for 30 days whether you want it to or not it's kind of video art you know it's shaping your personality at least right you're just a sack of habits chasing three brain chemicals just a bunch of mush under there yeah you've got it I mean there's certain people that you know there's a growth mindset and a fixed mindset but I think that the way that

[01:00:44] Spencer: Life just inherently is now especially in the Western culture it's like you have to realize that if you don't have an active growth mindset then society and the internet and your phone is going to make you into their fixed mindset they're gonna they're gonna send you on their wild-goose chase that's gonna be your interests they're gonna give you an ego to use I've got a lot of really hard Chris it was criticisms of capitalism in general I really think that uh like the growth mindset is even misconstrued because of it because it's like monetary gain is

[01:01:21] Jacob: What's prized here like that's what we flex you know you wear the change you drive the car and the so I am like all of our like economic system is based around consuming and then being what you have mm-hmm that's uh one of my favorite things is you climb up the corporate ladder you get to the top you realize you're on the wrong building yeah I like that it's just uh and it's incredibly predatory you see when you pick up your phone - I'm never just trying to sell you stuff make you feel bad and I think that like that model

[01:01:53] Spencer: Just like constantly like you just start

[01:01:56] Jacob: Selling your time and buying stuff like that sir here be quiet don't make noise sell your time and buy stuff like that's the loop in that growth mindset can be very much so sold to people through like a lot of self-help books to just make

[01:02:11] Spencer: You make more money to bring more stuff

[01:02:13] Jacob: Right it's a sucks man it's I mean I think it's worth talking about though it's worth having these conversations and it's worth trying to teach people and trying to make sure people know it's like hey I'm not trying to judge you I'm not trying to like tell you know that you're that I'm better than you in any way it's like I'm trying to make you realize that your attention is being sold to you I'm trying to make you realize that what you care about throughout your life should not should be your own decision and it shouldn't be your primitive chemicals being used against you which is the world that we're living and it's creating way too much divided and on it just causes this sense of uh well it's a lack it's not

[01:02:57] Spencer: Fulfilling at all I mean you buy a new car you like it for two months then you stop washing it's just like how you get to work yeah like this thing that you work so hard for it's just but a little bit of satisfaction this is what's next what's next like I feel like a lot of depression

[01:03:15] Jacob: Anxiety come from systemic reasons mm-hmm that we just are like a thrust

[01:03:21] Spencer: Into this world you're just like here to make money man just here to work we're not here for that's something it's like sure you got to play that game we've got a culture as a real thing societies a real thing you gotta exist in this world but like the essence of who you should be at the end of every evident of everyday is just someone who's trying to learn what this is all about right next to a bunch of other people trying to learn what this is all about and that harkens back to the ego too because selling you stuff is so ego pandering it is I fought for I mean I have I've had a massive ego in

[01:03:52] Jacob: The past like want the nicest car want

[01:03:55] Spencer: Just big muscles and I want everyone to think I'm smart and funny and huge totally and whatever I could buy to make that happen I would whatever like attention I could get just from monetary purchases 100 percent would do that and it's really hard to not be like that because we've just been raised in a culture that's that's just how it is but so here's the thing as the jump that was always something that I could understand at the moment I was introspective about it later is in the moment you don't realize you are doing these things right like you're like that what are you talking about I'm just this is who I am I'm just buying these things that I like I'm just doing these things but what we're saying is the essence of

[01:04:32] Jacob: Why you're doing these things is your

[01:04:36] Spencer: Ego you know that's what your ego is you just mean you don't have to bow to it this is actually unintentionally been an

[01:04:43] Jacob: Excellent podcast about you go cool yeah

[01:04:47] Spencer: I like podcasts dude I feel like the essence of ego it's actually confusing concept I told you I've been like I've been doing so much research around the word ego because I feel like I in my head I want to be able to explain it in like two sentences to people but I'm not there yet by any means so I think that I mean you'll be on this podcast not in any way and we're going to have these more conversations in depth about ego and I mean we talked about mindfulness

[01:05:17] Jacob: And all these things that loop together I think over time that listeners will really have a great grasp on Iko and why it's important to understand and I don't know if it's just what we

[01:05:30] Spencer: Chose to talk about all pander to the ego or if everything I call the human decisions you make really revert back to that I would like to keep an eye on that

[01:05:41] Jacob: So we can't wait to talk yeah

[01:05:44] Spencer: Because when you keep floating I mean in what happens in conversations we keep floating above ego and keep floating like the better you get and you kind of go this meta above the conversation like we're two of course we both still have egos but we're creating this that's Terry Parker definitely pretty big at some point of times yeah I am extremely

[01:06:04] Jacob: At my core pretty argumentative love to be this market I like to be right I don't want to be the strong one like it definitely just want to be that guy like like at my being that's this is just how I've always been so trying to release that it's been pretty hard just in general like it's always like not like oh no I lost it's like every day you gotta it's when

[01:06:27] Spencer: You notice that it's your natural state I was like I'll be Marcus he always talks about he always he calls himself a monster and he's like dude am I being a monster like I gotta push these things out I gotta I gotta attack I'm like I know that like I have these things but they're not always productive to my conversation and I was productive to what brings me forth or lives I feel like you'll definitely see come to them more than once and okay I really want

[01:06:52] Jacob: Like a people any listener is gonna really start to delve into this if you

[01:06:57] Spencer: Fail that's part of it you're gonna fail for the rest of your life that's just how it is like you're gonna fail sometimes and that is more than acceptable and you just have to take note of it be better yeah you're not failure just as much as you're not your ego you know these other things we're talking about you're also not failure you just got a restart the next day and that's the thing is it's not like oh I failed now I got to redo it's like no you never really fail if

[01:07:21] Jacob: You think about it's just like oh well I didn't get to where I wanted to be today tomorrow no doubt in my mind

[01:07:27] Spencer: I'm gonna start that same thing I'm gonna do that same thing I'm gonna pick up where I left off so what do we what do we learn today kind of thing ya know I failed the day and I could beat myself up like actually journaling is really helpful - Thank You Man I'm a huge advocate of journaling scribing it's definitely important I don't do it enough mm-hmm but it's definitely really helpful because then you can see progress - you go back like two months you look at what you're writing about that's something that I like looking back at my notes I'm getting there now it's some sort of weird block that I have I have like I have so much work that needs to be oh here's the rough draft let's go sketch it out and make it a final reading back my journal or reading back my thoughts but it is important it's something that I'm also working on so to work on all these things journaling definitely helps mindfulness meditation there's plenty of apps I mean you search the word mindfulness meditation anywhere nowadays you just

[01:08:22] Jacob: Follow the directions I promise it will

[01:08:25] Spencer: Help with ego with seeing

[01:08:27] Jacob: People as other with your emotions

[01:08:30] Spencer: Getting out of control with all these concepts mindfulness meditation even not even you even necessarily have to meditate but the incessant study of these things is helpful oh absolutely what is that because it just allows you to actually see what's happening I will say that

[01:08:48] Jacob: I've taken like pretty long breaks after starting meditating and then falling off and then get back on it and by emotional state is so much more varied I don't

[01:09:00] Spencer: Meditate like my I find myself being

[01:09:03] Jacob: Reactive much more so than I normally would be if I was meditating consistently do you notice it in the moment like oh **** like two minutes ago I just did that or do you notice it you know say like oh I meditated this week I noticed last week I kind of wasn't sure cut is it is it retrospectively or it's it depends how long I've meditated for like I took probably meditate for like six weeks and by the end of it I just kind of found myself back on my **** really doing all the stuff like oh just my habits just doing my habits mindlessly like a careening through days looking at my phone not taking note of things and just like not living now and at all to any meaningful degree and it really detracted from like my day-to-day experience right there's a saying that I really like that Albert Marcus says hit me with it today's a good day to die do you think I'd like if you just live in a way that you be content with I mean I lived I lived I laughed I danced I played today yeah a good day I think

[01:10:00] Jacob: That if I died today that'd be except like I lived my life to the utmost potential today right yeah don't put all like that oh I have done everything I've wanted to in this life and I'm good to die now it's not like that it's just today in this moment I'm being what I

[01:10:14] Spencer: Can be I have done what I can do today and I don't want to misconstrue that with like being physically productive like how I checked on my list off so just like enjoying the intricacies of conversation and laughing and letting

[01:10:27] Jacob: Yourself just genuinely enjoying

[01:10:30] Spencer: Every second did you slow down did you

[01:10:33] Jacob: Did you know maybe take a breath outside just one second extra longer and breathing in like man I'm so grateful for my backyard I'm grateful for me yeah I think gratitude definitely helps like the a good day to die today it's

[01:10:49] Spencer: Definitely like you need gratitude to be able to feel grateful for today being that good day most certainly I've got a I'm very lucky I've got a very excellent family dynamic I sold my parents they're just very good people I walked on my house about 2:00 a. m. one night and I was like I'm so thankful that this is a

[01:11:05] Jacob: Place of like happiness for me like I know that many people walk in their house and the source of pain I like to think about your safest space being like a place of discomfort to any real degree it's just so unfortunate enough like there's a very gracious of it yeah like that yeah that's you know that sparked something in me that's I'm very grateful of my space here as well it's just cool to see you know you're someone who I've you know I had a riddled upbringing you know and you're someone who like you know we talked about multiple times today like you've had a great you know you say you've had your own experiences of course just as anybody has but to know that you're still grateful for like having a home you know cuz there's I'm so grateful for what I have here but for me I'm so grateful because there was you know many years of my childhood to where I was my feet were in the air I was homeless you know was like it didn't have a consistent that place and so man I just

[01:12:04] Jacob: I just want to say thanks for being grateful in your own life because it just is like I think it's so important that you're taking time to be grateful for what you have and not being you know greedy about because there's plenty of people who greedy is not the right word there's plenty people who just aren't grateful for what they have and there's a lot of people who would love to have anything that they have and that's such a close a thing they hear all the time but it's important to your life

[01:12:27] Spencer: It's not you owe this person you should be grateful because this person has left it's like it has less it's a gratitude that you gave to your life you were really just cheating yourself by not being grateful for where I have to be honest because it really doesn't affect anyone else but you mm-hmm for the most part like if you just are constantly and one if you're not grateful you live in a constant state of discontent that's very unfortunate

[01:12:52] Jacob: Because then you will seek outside sources for contentment you'll never be grateful for it I was a I was at lunch

[01:13:01] Spencer: With like a multi-millionaire gym owner for like a business lunch and his kid was there with him he's probably like 14 I was about 18 and we were on the water on the East Coast and he was complaining to his father that uh their yachts not

[01:13:16] Jacob: Big enough and at that moment wow what a sentence that's insane this

[01:13:22] Spencer: Is madness right well it's the thing

[01:13:25] Jacob: About it though is that kid you know he was eight or no you were 18 he was to what 14 years probably sophomore your husband it was nothing is he's not he's not born like he just knows all this language he knows gratitude he knows all these things like he knows about yachts I mean he needs to be taught these things like you have to be able to take a second and slow down and he needs to have I have a way of that being talked to him you know these are things that as parents it's important for us to do like you need to show your kid why they're grateful for what they have it's a tenant of Stoicism to go live

[01:13:57] Spencer: With the poor for a few days right get in touch with the people it's probably honestly important it's probably great I mean I know Megan went over to South Africa Ghana I think if she was

[01:14:10] Jacob: There and helped out and taught it like a school and stuff remote she came back she's like man it's obviously eye opening you know that's a pretty profound way to go about it but seeing people with less it definitely makes you grateful for what you have and I love I love them people go to Africa I've never been but when they come back and they're like everyone was so happy there they're just so grateful for everything or in

[01:14:32] Spencer: Weird content with not much not much that's why stuffs doesn't matter like stuff is not important stuff sex stuff is definitely perishable and you will get over it but if you can find like the

[01:14:46] Jacob: Wherewithal to just accept what it is or like who you are or what's happening around you and just like genuinely taking the good parts and enjoy them right you're just gonna constantly be sad be discontent yeah and I see that

[01:15:01] Spencer: With body issues a lot so I'm a personal trainer and if people you can't you gotta enjoy the process like if you're like I will be happy when I get here you're never gonna be happy because when you get there you want more but if you can find it in your being to accept yourself now you will be content the whole way yeah you can't put your happiness in the outcome because you don't control the outcome I've heard

[01:15:25] Jacob: That analogy with tennis players so like I will only be happy like Serena Williams I'm only gonna be happy and proud of myself if I win but you don't have control over that if this person is more physically and if they're better at this game or whatever happens and they win this game that's you can't control that what we can do is you can be present and you can go give it your all and you can you can you can be content with the

[01:15:56] Spencer: Outcome that you gave your 100% whether you won or lost and if you have the first mindset who does it hurt ultimately it doesn't change the outcome if you lose and you were only gonna be happy if you want your you're the only one suffering from it right so we really just create our own torment just some degree we create order we create our own fear and then we get into a boxing ring then we try to box it I really think the I really don't like capitalism then we're gonna people are definitely gonna find that out well I

[01:16:28] Jacob: Mean because it's a come on comrades

[01:16:31] Spencer: It's the winning the winning mindset got

[01:16:34] Jacob: Ya right thinks there's no it's all about efficiency no time to live now I gotta live tomorrow I gotta do all these things mm-hmm and that's just not what's the point of that what's the what we don't get to the end do you think you don't get to the end like all right well at one see you later good night I'm gonna go die just go do stuff for other people yeah your life is in between you just end up and if you're really good at it upon a pile of gold alone realizing you didn't cherish a single moment because you're not in that rat race I'd rather what's the saying Mike stud had a lyric I'd rather be broke than rich alone I always like I wanted scrooge mcduck on the pile of gold sad man okay sad van scrooge mcduck well Spencer let's uh let's round it out is there anything that you want to go over one more time for listeners let's take a look definitely take a look

[01:17:32] Spencer: I'll just live like today's a good day to die wavelength today is a good day to that I'm just like really think about that enjoy the present moment as much as you can yeah I agree man it's very important

[01:17:46] Jacob: Spencer Hicks I love you so much man I'm glad I be on the podcast I'm glad to have you a million times more I hope thanks for your friendship in your conversation and your enlightening words too if you enjoy that podcast go ahead and give it a like give me a follow whatever you got to do on the social media thing and make sure to send it to a friend if there's somebody in your life that you think would benefit from any of the things that we discussed in this podcast and of course pay attention to what whatever app you're using they're gonna I don't play some song or

[01:18:16] Spencer: Podcast or a YouTube video next so just

[01:18:19] Jacob: Be wary of your day be conscious stay

[01:18:22] Spencer: Mindful have a good day check our love

[01:18:24] Jacob: Podcast out

[01:18:32] Spencer: You