Episode 017 with Spencer Hicks

[00:00:00] Jacob: People chew is my least favorite noise you know it's funny I was actually just talking about the other day seems like if you break down it's better for us as humans if we did chew with our mouths open like we if we all were just like I don't know that I have no idea I think it just seems yeah so welcome to the junk our

[00:00:20] Spencer: Love podcast to start things off

[00:00:21] Jacob: Spencer and I are just gonna for five minutes make ASMR sounds into the microphone okay I'm down with it already ASMR is so you know what that stands for it's the they put it in the meditation category but that seems unfair yeah it's like audio I don't know the other three words but it's Disgusting noises yeah it's a I think it is it I don't know essentially they you wear headphones and someone has a recording of them doing a bunch of like very whatever I don't think it's a sexual thing well I think it is fifty-fifty if you get on YouTube a lot of them get banned for being overly sexual like there's a hard implication that this is definitely sexually charged oh man that would be super uncomfortable too yeah they get some very attractive woman in scantily clad clothing just whispering no way what about the people who listen to that stuff do you think people let's do it like driving on the freeway like people let's no podcast that's not it some headphones though it's in their car like it's through all their speakers you just I'm sure someone does

[00:01:21] Spencer: That dude that's so definitely not good I would say I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I don't like that okay wait but we may need to learn more about it cuz there must be sure it's a something that people have done to monetize to the sexual side of it but I there's got to be people who really like have never felt the touch of another person or they don't like to I don't know there's got to be something that people are benefiting from with it

[00:01:44] Jacob: Well it's supposed to give you the tinglies like you know when you get the chills like that's what it's for it's supposed to make you feel like it does that to me but is the uncomfortable chills it's like if I was at a urinal and some dude was like hey man and put his hand on my shoulder it's that's what it gives me getting at all yeah I'm not a fan anyway so maybe next time we'll try the ASMR thing I only got a couple seconds in no

[00:02:09] Spencer: Thank you so Spencer is a professional ASMR

[00:02:12] Jacob: Teacher he runs a YouTube account called

[00:02:17] Spencer: A smart fencer mm-hmm it's also a

[00:02:21] Jacob: Website dog home um all right cool

[00:02:25] Spencer: Spencer and I are here again Spencer if

[00:02:28] Jacob: You'll notice this is the third episode that actually this is the fourth episode but the third that listeners will hear because one of them was but uh we did a but so Spencer and I you know our

[00:02:41] Spencer: Conversations always seem to peer into something that we're both very interested in a lot of our subject matter seems to be like we're both on the same page with it we're able to have different opinions a lot of times but were able to have conversation with them but frankly we have a lot of the same acquaintances so I think that the usefulness there is being able to communicate those ideas clearly and then

[00:03:04] Jacob: Also you know something else talking to Spencer about is his demeanor and his ability to have conversation his

[00:03:12] Spencer: Good-heartedness these things open up a

[00:03:16] Jacob: Lot more types of conversations with different types of people so we were talking about you know having difficult conversations with people who are completely difficult with you or different than you so you know you can't really have a religious conversation with someone who has a different religion than you in a really like ailment or in a non ill-mannered way I mean imagine if you're listening to a podcast and it's two people of different religions you'd probably be willing to bet that nowadays it's probably going to be a terrible thing to listen to because it's like a debate instead of a conversation but so it's oh I want so

[00:03:48] Spencer: Spencer will be honey often - I guess hope hopefully teach conversation and teach how things are going to go here and how we can have different types of people interacting and how different types of people can have these difficult conversation these interesting conversations difference of opinion and that's something that I think that our world has kind of let fade away and

[00:04:11] Jacob: Let float away is like just because you know one bad thing about person or a person is just because you have a difference with them just because there's different beliefs that you both have you hope we accidentally hold on to these things and then we don't let ourselves progress forward even have a conversation so it's like oh there's one thing about you that I don't believe so we're not even gonna talk about it anyway just diving into the depths of conversation exploring topics you know philosophy psychology things are we that we're very much into obviously health nutrition fitness stuff like that and then really whatever comes along if you so anyway Spencer will be on here quite often if you enjoy our content if there's if you start to get a grasp for the cut type of things that we enjoy talking about if you head over to my YouTube and just like comment like hey talk about like the origins of the tooth fairy or talk about like what is fear and what is fight or flight or you know whatever you want us to talk about that's relevant so anyway Spencer welcome buddy good to see you it's getting nice you know something

[00:05:17] Jacob: Habitual things doing things over and over we're starting to do these once a week at least have the conversations where the roof court never not and it has been nice you know I'm a very secluded person usually I've been slowly trying to like hang out with more people but just the consistency of like knowing that like Monday night we're gonna text you Heather and be like hey man what's been on your mind this week what do we kind of want to get into tomorrow so it's a nice habitual thing I kind of like to pretend that we're gonna be all 80 year old men one of these days meeting at a coffee shop once a week to talk about the books that we've read over the weekend you know it's fun man I appreciate your friendship I appreciate you as well and I can't wait to be an old man I don't have anything to do but things yeah what is the difference between us in an old man really like their view on life is so different yeah Oh old people like we slowly just get more rigid and I

[00:06:11] Jacob: Feel like if you don't flex this muscle like a lot of people don't do this at all like you I like to romanticize being

[00:06:18] Spencer: Old and just doing philosophy and hanging out and saying words right but I really hope that I don't get to the point where I'm so rigid and how I feel because I've reinforced it for so long that I just don't get to do that anymore oh yeah because yeah if you decide exactly who you are at a younger age you're like well this is exactly who I am forever you don't get explore anything cool for the rest of your life right now how boring is that it seems kind of boring it does I like the I get my hair cut down the road from the barber shop I've gotten cut there twice now in just the conversations with them couple older gentlemen their view on life I mean even outside of them being older gentlemen at all just as human beings their view on life is very wonderful I just find myself wanting I just don't want to talk and you want to listen to what they have to say and I think that a lot of our generation and especially right now we're kind of like

[00:07:10] Jacob: Relearning what they've known and like what the older people are like hey slow down enjoy your life look around do you like you don't have to like escape with all this technology you don't have to do all this intricate new entertainment stuff it seems like a lot of times older people can slow down and enjoy the world but either way I mean it's funny because we talk about old people in that sense now it's just like one little genre of human beings but last podcast I think we talked about old people in a completely different way like we're referencing the Boomer thing for hate it's a silly way to get to converse with people like the wizened old person hmm like somebody that has taken all their knowledge and applied it and it's just like this nice gentle old

[00:07:54] Spencer: Person who's just trying to help others

[00:07:55] Jacob: Right that's awesome we love those on you it's the people that haven't challenged any of their beliefs since 17

[00:08:02] Spencer: And just have lived this complete rigid I do the same thing every day life right

[00:08:07] Jacob: Yeah and they don't you know and that's the thing is if you have a beliefs that you feel strongly about I mean you don't have to sit there and defend your beliefs against other people but I think

[00:08:19] Spencer: That researching in learning about your things like if you reference the entire rap of rest of your life off of one documentary and you saw on Netflix

[00:08:30] Jacob: When you're 11 you know like maybe that's going to send your trajectory down and you're gonna like happily learn all these things of what that sent you down but like just having the one documentary and saying this is final truth and anybody who argues with this truth I'm gonna yell at or whatever you kind of just keep following knowledge because a lot of the times if you're not following knowledge you're not questioning anything if you're not questioning anything you're just not growing at all yeah and I guess it is the old people or people that have had a very fixed mindset their whole life are incredibly sour old fellows hmm right but if

[00:09:04] Spencer: People have decided that they're going to question all their beliefs especially the ones they hold to be the most true which are the ones you need a question and they continue to do that forever they will probably be very excellent old people right I don't know I think it's

[00:09:18] Jacob: Hard because you know we can't just be like you know addressing again old people just seems silly to even say these words old people but a saying that that what they think is wrong just because I haven't explored anything else we've got to make sure we're never we're never doing that like but again just being able to have differences in beliefs and differences of like in understanding that we have differences it's super important and I think that a lot of that gets lost by the wayside because there's a lot of there's a lot of wonderful teachings that a lot of older people have that are getting lost by young people just shutting down not listening so like you know meet you and I for example we enjoy learning and depth about religion and philosophy and these things but not a lot of people do so like for example let's say a grandfather is talking to his grandson and he's talking about he's trying to teach him overall what he's trying to do is turn teach Evan Morel he's trying to teach him about he's trying to teach him you know how to be a good man when he grows up but he's doing it through this feel of religion so this the Bible

[00:10:23] Jacob: Says this and the in whatever religious that you're talking to them about it

[00:10:31] Spencer: The young person nowadays is I'm not use

[00:10:35] Jacob: This word correctly but smart enough to know that there's other people have questioned that you know they maybe they've seen things on the internet their friends have different religious beliefs everything's also mixed now there's so much that we can know that the meaning of what the old person is trying to teach the grandkid is being completely lost because it's through this message this boat of religion of something that the young kid doesn't understand and we don't allow ourselves to listen to each other well enough in this culture to let to really say like okay so you said these exact words I know what you actually mean so I'm going to talk to you about that but what we're actually saying or what's happening is they're saying something we're like I don't agree with the words that you're saying we're not trying to understand like what does he mean in but it is difficult a young

[00:11:24] Spencer: Person versus some old person a younger person doesn't understand that this they may not be talking about everything so I'm metaphysical that may have been super confusing I apologize but it's kinda the lens that they are speaking to you is inherently shutting you down from even listening to them because it's at face value it is something that you reject or at least I personally reject to such a hard degree that it's just like an automatic shutdown it's like when you are attacking people's beliefs and they just completely shut down DoubleDown gonna be the same thing so if they took that same lesson and just put a different lens on it and it wasn't under the guise of something that you would disagree with as like a truth you're all gonna get a lot more out of it and if you can like look at these people and what they're trying to tell you and just kind of take like an overhead view of what they're saying to you rather than and right you extrapolate what they're trying to say yeah and then maybe apply that or at least decide that I see your reason but

[00:12:15] Spencer: And I don't believe that and then that reinforces you where you're at so even if you disagree it's helpful the people are saying stuff that they believe that

[00:12:24] Jacob: You definitely don't think is true at least gives you more data on why you think what you think is true right exactly do you think that we've accidentally trained ourselves to I keep saying that to actually train ourselves to argue instantly against things that we don't instantly agree with so like when they're presented with us we don't even realize but we're just talking and already arguing before we stop and think like oh this is a person's opinion what they said sounds like this but hmm I know them this is their background here's their let's look at this situation what they probably meant was this when you when were just in this free active state which our whole society is and not our

[00:13:02] Spencer: Whole society is in it's not allowing us to stop and be like okay this is what this person means so what I'm getting at is young or just different type of people are not being able to have conversations because we're not being able to listen to and say this is what you meant not here's what I heard from my interpretation we need to be able to say okay maybe I misunderstood you is this what you kind of said the I think just the explanation of that we were talking about conversations and going meta conversations I think that's a lot of what the important thing is that you and I are trying to make sure it's clear to is how to have conversations it's something that I'm like relearning how to do something that you don't realize it but someone letting you talk for three hours is something that hasn't happened I don't know ever in anyone's

[00:13:51] Jacob: **** life so I get talking and it's like oh I have these intricate you know things to say and I actually meant this but if someone had to cut me off two minutes ago or in two minutes of

[00:14:02] Spencer: What I'm saying it's gonna get construed so I think just unwrapping understanding each other for sure I think it's hard

[00:14:09] Jacob: Because there's a you just we don't use the same language either like words don't mean the same things for us and elder folk mm-hmm and they're what they hold true in the world is not what we hold true in the world so it's almost like we're it's like an alien concept to be what they are so it's very hard to empathize with them because it's just so ludicrous to me that these people hold these beliefs so you're already starting out from an extremely disadvantaged point because you got a weave through all of this and try to get something out of it and then a lot of times people that hold really strong beliefs that they've had for a long time just don't have a lot of nuance to them and there's not a lot of extrapolation to be done because this is so incredibly true to them so they'll say a punchy statement and they're not gonna explain it because that's a truth of them they never had to explain it why will they because this is true right that's what the that's what the news has top you know it's kind of a way of thinking now though the news has taught you don't have to know that

[00:15:11] Jacob: Much to have this point in end all and all other arguments like nobody can argue it if you just say this sentence and that's the news kind of accidentally teaches that too we have a lot of people that are caught in that I think the news is a very low ego thing that happens you

[00:15:27] Spencer: Know cycle really just keeps you away from like finding who you are in your true self because it just keeps pulling you back in all this ****

[00:15:35] Jacob: Right I mean I calling you back everybody has news though I mean everybody has a different variation of news or a version of the news but I think that like with the Union that we I'd say we're on the same page the news we're talking about is let's say the on TV it made mainstream news mainstream newness right you know the main things that people are involving it's crazy to see how news has it's changed like nothing I'm something I've been watching news forever you know news has never super been my thing but uh I don't know

[00:16:03] Spencer: I just think I've seen about nine eleven

[00:16:05] Jacob: You think about the news that day right

[00:16:09] Spencer: Like nobody was probably really watching the news there's probably a select amount of people like I don't know for sure but is probably come out of people who were watching The Morning News they normally do but not nearly even half as many as like these we didn't know about threats so much and then 9/11 happens I

[00:16:24] Jacob: Remember like I guess I don't remember exactly how it happened but I was so young and I can imagine that like waking up the morning was very different like oh nine eleven on the news now I can't imagine what could catastrophic

[00:16:38] Spencer: Event would really feel like that now I feel like every day we wake up with breaking news we wake up with oh there's another school shooting and then there's also this thing when we're like we need to not talk about school shootings so it's another popular thing so we're not talking about him anymore it's

[00:16:52] Jacob: Weird I wonder like the difference between the 9/11 example is just a moment in time of so back then to now what do you think the repercussions of the changing news will be for the future when the news is different and weird now

[00:17:09] Spencer: I think the problem is like we're so desensitized to big stuff cuz the world's so bad and there's been such a big paradigm shift in how we view news and how the news gets to us because of the financial incentive and the traditional news is just dying because it's just not know nobody likes it's just **** so they got to be more and think actually more outrage more divisive nests and the monetary aspect behind this has kind of ruin all these things and it's actually not allowed us to even feel strongly about

[00:17:41] Jacob: Any of these travesties that happen and I would love it if it died off because these things are extremely important when they happen and we need to take hard note but when you have a new cycle and two days it's like when this story of like a shooting or a tragedy goes on and in three days it's something else and we just are so inundated with not actually feeling the pain of that or the gravity of the situation that it is overwhelming it's too much information yeah that's exactly right it's too much information we it's not healthy for us to have too much information like this it's like as much as a fellow human being if I did know that there's starving kids in Africa that makes my heart hurt but I shouldn't wake up every morning and see if they're starving kids in Africa I can't live my life with my heart hurting all the time you know like we can't know all the drama the things

[00:18:29] Jacob: That we have our blood pressure has risen the things that have like caused our body our chemical **** pods here to just do all these crazy things just by watching the news every hour of news that you've watched of things that actually really weren't relevant to you they were just kind of passing that time and giving you some in-between information in you know you texted people you post it on your Facebook you did these things because you saw them on the news well they don't they don't actually affect you a lot of times if you look back at the things that you cared for strongly that the news told you to care about you know the last three years really what part of your life have they changed like what have they given you like the things that matter to you in your life have they affected them in

[00:19:10] Spencer: In the correct way I think that the

[00:19:14] Jacob: 24-hour news stream is not good for our health it keeps us thinking about the wrong thing so you can't constantly like if you want to not if you stop being a drug addict you can't wake up and just look at some drugs on TV every single day and have drugs on the table every single day you know you go if you want if you want to get away from something that's tragedy something that's bad you got to insert things that are good you got to wake up and you gotta like what do I like today not what tragedy is going on what do i oh I want to learn how to play guitar so I'm gonna put like some light guitar on I'm gonna play piano put light piano on I want to learn how to sew so I'm gonna watch a sewing station we can't just like keep learning about what's bad somebody has to obviously we have to pay tests what's going on the world you can't be blind to it but I've got a fun

[00:19:55] Spencer: Little experiment for everyone to do so for the next week or pick a couple days delete all your social apps delete all your media apps and then don't watch TV and then focus on only stuff that you

[00:20:07] Jacob: Actually like to do like don't waste any of your time putting any energy into **** that it's just wasting time or just can't like taking your conscious awareness away from stuff you really like to do it sound like I like the creative right there's a lot of things that I enjoy doing that I just don't do because I spend time and taking just this **** media that is not helpful at all right and just see how you feel like it was profound when I did it didn't you just recently like do it again yeah about two weeks ago three weeks ago wait so what exactly is you just delete you the apps or what do you I deleted YouTube Instagram Twitter Facebook stopped watching news and I

[00:20:44] Spencer: Stopped playing video games okay how like to do a bunch of stuff and I just don't do it like I like to shoot I like to do archery I play D&D so I do a lot of creative writing right I like to play cards with my friends like there's like a lot of things that I enjoy doing that I don't do because I'm too busy being distracted and I feel like this news cycle like all this terrible drama that is the real life news is just so embellishing and you just get slowly more and more into it more and more into it I mean it really is just a bad drama TV I mean I would say it's equally as bad for your brain it's just watching trash TV it seems like the people who watch it though the way that they freakin award things on the news is they make it seem like if you're ignoring the stuff idiot you are so stupid if you're

[00:21:33] Spencer: Ignoring this stuff so the people who are listening to our like of course I'm the one listening to it I know people who aren't listening to it they have no idea what's going on like that's people who watch the news are walking around talking to other people who watch the news saying they have no idea what's going on but has it made your life better is it is it actually I don't know I don't want to just throw like oh I'll news or like you should ignore everything that's going on politician wise but like man this stuff is ****

[00:21:59] Jacob: Right now it's really weird there's a lot of like I mean anybody can watch any documentary it's about like what's actually going on here and all the marketing that they're doing and all the you know people in charge who are putting certain ads in front of our eyes all of our attention being purchased our data all this **** it's the news is it's not it's not fabricating real life for the for the Watchers it's just not real life it's it might be a little bit a little bit it's really something is really happening and they might be talking about a little bit of it but whatever they spin on it is not real and you got to look at the financial there's a financial reason that all these things happen like they just want to get clicks they want to make you mad so you come back Facebook puts ads in front of you that are gonna make you upset they put post in front you that are making upsets so you engage more so you make more ad revenue like your consciousness is just being sold and if your attention is just being sold on the

[00:22:51] Spencer: Other side of that I feel like it is everyone's civic duty to understand what is happening in the world it's not good to turn a blind eye to the entire world and just live your I mean you can't just live your quiet happy life and never engage with it but it is important to understand these things but it's also important to understand the thing just a lot of nuance and a lot of other factors into consideration of them just what you're being told like you need to be able to form a whole congruent opinion

[00:23:16] Jacob: On all these political things based on

[00:23:18] Spencer: Like your philosophical beliefs and that's why I think philosophy is really important because it imposes a bunch of

[00:23:26] Jacob: Questions that you need to come to terms with how you feel and it allows your worldview to be more linear and sound and then you can have better political opinions because you know you really believe and you've really actually thought about it a lot of these people that watch the news not thought about these things they just have they turned on TV one day they believe what their dad did and now they're upset but why like why is if your question why am i mad about this why is this happening is this is what's happening ethical like why am I upset this very question to ask yeah I mean people I think I think what's happening I mean just summarizes the whole news thing it sucks because I think people are being kind of catapulted into having arguments that aren't really theirs they're kind of just being used as a mouth as a talking whatever like a puppet for all these peoples whatever agendas and this is like on all like a lot of sides of the political the whole thing I mean it you

[00:24:18] Spencer: Know even saying so voting like okay I want to vote and who do I vote for like what does it mean like how do I learn to vote I'm sure there's like plenty of simple things but there's also there's probably a great answer to that there's probably like you can type in certain things and just gonna give the answer and now I'm saying it out loud I think I would love to like learn exactly like where can we send people to like you want to learn how to vote or want to know about the basics of voting here you go but a there's so much **** information and there's so much information that's biased there's so much information that has very much headlined clicky stuff there is people with more money than other people who have purchased more of your data than them there's like for example the

[00:25:01] Jacob: Election like I don't want to dive too far into like the political stuff but just as a basis of what I'm saying what I'm saying the whole thing is nutty is

[00:25:11] Spencer: There if you weren't going to vote so say that you're someone who like had just has cable and you've never voted in your life but based off of your search history you're a **** you're an **** you're a turd being and just lives by yourself out in the woods but you have cable well people

[00:25:34] Jacob: With money and power know these things know everything about you because of your data your search history your Alexa your whatever these people can then say oh this guy's never voted for it but he's likely to vote for this candidate and that's our guy right there that's our candidate so let's make sure that he particularly gets our ad six miles down the road some liberal nice really whatever people in they're gonna get a completely different ad based off of their watch history so that right there

[00:26:02] Spencer: Like the pinpointing the targeting

[00:26:05] Jacob: Of people like in their intelligence people and they're like previous beliefs just I mean knowing that information it

[00:26:13] Spencer: Changes everything to me it I don't know that I have answers for any of that like that's just craziness right that's so to me that says like okay so clearly the whole thing is broken because that's not I don't know if it's cheating but it's something kind of weird it's way

[00:26:28] Jacob: Too tactical for an election because election what's the point of it you know like we want we want it's just a bad system in the debates that they have are not actually debates they just they're okay the debates are hosted by news organizations that are for-profit that have agendas and they will throw people bad questions on purpose and I guess I'm voted in like this is so obviously just

[00:26:50] Spencer: **** **** yeah it's just obvious this isn't in one side versus the other side this is the whole thing the entire thing the structure of it is Dickie this whole system that we have and we've just allowed it to be ingrained with corporatism is just ruined everything

[00:27:05] Jacob: But if I'm gonna give some tips if

[00:27:09] Spencer: You're gonna pick a candidate go look at who was given the money and then look at like cuz you can see publicly who their donors are hmm go see who's given the money and then go look at their policies you say Oh oils given this guy a bunch of money I always got a bunch of oil tax cuts like okay like these things add up like if you can see who's paying for this you can see where this person's gonna do even in regards if they're not saying these things you know what they're gonna do because something's lining their pockets so I would say go go seek that out I'm not gonna tell you who to vote for but it's hard to seek that out though man because you start going into these rabbit holes and it's just all this I don't want any isn't

[00:27:45] Spencer: Fake news I'm a goddamn podcast but thanks me reason all fake news yeah that's what I'm saying is it's all fake news it's all **** but so here's the thing is I would never I'm not trying to advise people to not vote I'm saying we need to learn way more so like something Shane that I had a conversation with about and then I was just bringing back up I would love to you I'm not super savvy from the whole road process I want to like go through it and I want to go through it out loud on this podcast I want to try to offer not too

[00:28:11] Jacob: Strong opinions you know because I know like I crack my fair share amount of jokes about like the Trump thing but it's not so much about him in like him as a person as much as its again this whole thing is just ridiculous like a look at what happened you know but anyway I think what it is important to notice because a lot of people like let's say the far left the crazy people are getting to this conversation Spencer and they're like this whole thing is **** and they're doing this who love uh and then they're going outside and they're saying this is bad yeah we need to change this like people don't talk about these things or notice that like hey we're on a ****

[00:28:51] Spencer: Rock hurling through space and to survive and to be successful and not kill each other and not die of starvation we have to have culture we have to have society this is something that needs to happen and unless you person on the side street just yelling and complaining about it of what other people are doing unless you have a better idea it's kind of like what's happening right now so I think that speaking of things like the structure of how everything is and the entirety

[00:29:18] Jacob: Of all this is super important but like we're not trying to just **** throw it all under the bus and say it sucks or just complain about it I think that it's nice to speak about in like I don't know if like Spencer you and I we always get going down far rabbit holes of like even you know far-fetched ideas like man what if like we didn't have a president and we just had like seven dudes who you know like

[00:29:43] Spencer: It's fun to extend like your what if philosophy from and take your conversations into those areas and extend like I wonder what could we do like I don't know everything what could we do and have those conversations with your friends instead of like the here's exactly what they're doing what I'm doing and this is wrong this is right and blaming people and you got to get away from status quo bias just because it is like this now doesn't mean that's how it should be a lot of people are

[00:30:08] Jacob: Like we were capitalist nation like our government is dis out is this how it's gonna work and we can't change it at all okay this is American okay well that's pretty regressive and maybe we should think that this is a pretty **** system and everyone can see it maybe we should change it and maybe you should talk about that yeah and then but there is also love I mean we kind of hit a dead end with that because then it loops back around to a lot of people's religions like this one a lot of people I don't even want to dive too far into religion anymore really on this one but it's hard because you hit a lot of speed bumps but I think the point of it is being able to have open conversation and open dialogue in

[00:30:49] Spencer: Being able to really understand like let your brain wrap itself around that like there's seven point six billion **** in the world and they know a lot of different things 100% in their heart the same way that you 100% in your heart know them so what the **** man things are clearly like it's okay that people have different beliefs there's so many different beliefs but when they're stopping progress and stopping all these things it's frustrating but we must you go out in the world and start having conversations a lot of people are going to stow them all the **** out of you just gotta have good faith in it and then just keep going out and doing it like a lot of these people that don't

[00:31:30] Jacob: Have the mindset of hey let's have an open conversation they just want to tribe up and attack you mm-hmm it's not gonna end well like you're not gonna have a good conversations people but that is me shouldn't try to because you're never gonna get anywhere if you don't try and you're never getting where if you just attack people because they're gonna double down it's gonna make it worse so if you really want to espouse your opinion you think it's very good you should have a very nice and quiet conversation about it and then not get upset when people disagree with you yeah you're totally right but I think also taking it on your own take it where you want it like me I'm very interested in everything and I want to explore all realms of possibilities and like I want to remain a disbelief and like learn what you think but I don't

[00:32:11] Spencer: Think that I'm like why I'm owed you your opinion so I shouldn't invite someone who has a very opposite opinion of me for them to come like yell at me on my podcast or somebody like if there's somebody in your life that their opinion is vastly different from you but they don't they don't understand the conversation skills the they think that things are all debate they think that things are like facts and facts negate everything

[00:32:37] Jacob: That you just said it's whatever facts is for you and where'd you get them like theirs yeah having civilized

[00:32:45] Spencer: Conversation and that's not a champion belief because you want to be your dumb lizard brain just wants to dominate people and win I want my words to be

[00:32:54] Jacob: Your words **** you my ideas better and then and not a lot of people aren't like that because that's just how we are at our core you have to learn how to not be like that because we just come out the box like that so you most people aren't gonna be very

[00:33:07] Spencer: Helpful but we should at least try yeah

[00:33:10] Jacob: We should definitely try just meet new people and see what they think and let them to say what they think and learn about it and you can learn something from everyone if you talk to everyone like they know something that you don't you're gonna get a lot more out of conversations I mean most attend they do know something you know if you really think about what they always do everyone does something you don't know that's just I would go on a limb and say that's probably a fact I mean it's definitely a

[00:33:31] Spencer: Fact like they know if their mother's name you don't know their mother's name boom one thing they don't know that's something they could teach you oh you could have just learned someone else's mother's name you miss violent cuz you're being a **** lessons they want to teach you too and maybe you can at least you can learn how not to do stuff to people like if this is somebody that you really think is really **** in the bed like maybe you could just learn oh this is a less like you did something bad and I learned a lesson from it now you win so and if you really don't like this person they really believe stuff that you don't like you can at least learn something but when you're too busy being right you miss out on lessons yes when you're so enveloped in this person is an idiot and this person is this and your opinion of someone and I'm right and you're wrong you don't have any room in your head or

[00:34:12] Spencer: In your intake right here of taking in them teaching you anything yeah you're too busy filling it in with them being on there's a problem with this though because a lot of people make a lot of points and very bad face when you just are saying stuff to like just like dominate you in some way and they win yeah they're making bad faith arguments like this whatever they're saying is not coming from a place of kindness or empathy or reason and they don't

[00:34:35] Jacob: Actually believe these things that are saying these things to be hurtful or they're saying these things tucked own you quotes yeah dude do you think that I

[00:34:42] Spencer: Mean conversation is some the language conversation has definitely been changed and kind of like weirdly stripping away in strange ways obviously just because technology the internet social media texting like our shortening

[00:34:55] Jacob: Of texts our shortening of words I think I've talked to you before I notice when I'm writing my like if I'm writing a book like oh I'm this is a chapter for a book that I want to author one day it's very different person that is writing that when I'm typing on my Facebook wall or it's special I'm tweeting like the

[00:35:14] Spencer: The misinterpretation of language that has happened just with that just within our own selves like sometimes we changed what we really mean but it's definitely changed language has kind of broadened without any explanation of it and in our we're all trying to navigate that it's super weird but it's I think it's important for people to understand that different words and different terminologies and stuff aren't always the same to you and another person we have to look inside like okay give it a second what does this dude really mean what is he actually saying not the exact words well this word means this so and

[00:35:50] Jacob: You said this word so Mahmood no you're right and I'm wrong it's we got to listen to what they're saying not the words that they're saying intent is important but you also before people get their guard up before this gets heated you can just define terms they say like faith is like for grillage people say the word faith but it means a very different thing to a lot of people right that's like hey like what does this mean to you like would you define this more me please or like you're a political debate ask them to define a word because usually if you've been living in a different bubble than they have this word holds way different connotations

[00:36:24] Spencer: And denotations to them so if you can understand how they mean that word you can definitely communicate with them better because we're saying the same words but they just don't mean the same things dude i think that's something we should really like dig a hole like heed this part of the podcast that is actually a pretty big deal the misinterpretation that we're having of the exact same words like we are so in our heads that we don't realize that we don't know like two years ago when someone is someone was talking to me about the word spirit or whatever I would be like that's something for them that's something that they feel bah but like now that I've felt my own versions of spirituality and whatever that **** means to me like I'm able to know what they mean when in so I can have more compassion with them so that's just something like through my own experience that I'm making a connection obviously with that but I think that entire versions of words faith is another good one the word ego like our first podcast we defined ego I think that being super cocky and super confident all of us a lot of people our age especially knowing that we know

[00:37:29] Jacob: Words and we hear someone say something so we take it out of context because we're like oh they're saying this about me but we're forgetting or take we're not taking that person into consideration we're not taking oh what did they actually mean what's their knowing of this word because I mean if you're a thirty old man and you've read a ton of books and there's a seven-year-old girl who's read four books and you guys are having an argument about what faith means the word faith what the definition of it is it's going to be different you guys are arguing different points but you're both think you're wrong well there's chances that a lot of times you're arguing as the seven year old and you don't need to be arguing at all you need to just be like let's get on the same page of what we're talking about the same word right I think it's pretty important yeah words have to mean stuff and we need to at least have them mean the same thing to communicate a big thing in philosophy almost every philosopher well when they're doing a lot of writings they'll be very meticulous in describing what these words mean to them

[00:38:29] Spencer: And exactly how they're using them to

[00:38:31] Jacob: Deliver a more eloquent concise point

[00:38:34] Spencer: And we just throw words around we also

[00:38:37] Jacob: Really devalue words as well then when I condensed them yes the power of words is really devalued you see when people like younger kids will awful time say a lot of bigoted words like just says jokes because they just I mean we're just don't mean anything to you like these are just fun words that you're saying but once you just get a little older and you start to realize like these things are really potent like these words have been used in very bad ways mm-hmm these are these are powerful and then you sort of think about it and like oh maybe like everything I say is pretty potent if you make it that way in order for society to function boards

[00:39:10] Spencer: Have to mean stuff yeah I mean yeah that's a super big thing I mean in little kids knowing more words but like knowing of them but not really grasping them that's got to be like not super great super it's got to

[00:39:26] Jacob: Be a little more confusing than anything

[00:39:27] Spencer: I think dude like just **** difficult

[00:39:31] Jacob: Yeah language is so difficult in its I think that it's kind of being a little bit swiped out from underneath us like and if we're not careful if we're not you know we could we can't just shorten everything we can't just convince everything so if you're like hey man give me one give me a five-word sentence

[00:39:48] Spencer: On what religion is you can't do that that doesn't say you can give them a five-word sentence but now you have just given your view of religion on a five-word sentence you just put a box around this thing and religion is just the word that came to mind but like any of any of these words that people want

[00:40:07] Jacob: To condense so much ego for example like

[00:40:10] Spencer: That's a word that like every time we talk about it seems like it's like it we're defining come from a little bit different of a stance because it's talking about something I mean think about consciousness like I read conscious by Annika Harris and like I read the book and I'm like man I feel like I still don't know if I could fully describe what consciousness is to someone if they asked me see it's we have to remember how complicated languages and what a lot of times we're

[00:40:37] Jacob: Doing here in today's world is **** fighting people over misinterpretations of language and misinterpretations of the dude wasn't able to explain what he actually meant because he didn't have 17 hours to tell you his point but we need to work with what we're given you know yeah there's a double-edged sword of that though because a lot of people don't even know why they believe stuff so when you get them to explain it's just kind of a train wreck because they haven't actually had to think about it at all but that's the thing if one if you're explaining something you're right so you don't know what **** you're talking about be like actually you know I think I'm stupid yeah maybe just don't know this thing and it's super okay to not know stuff or but I will say that I would really like it if more people that had strong believes to held them for a reason mm-hmm you know because I think that this excess we definitely need to give people a lot more leeway and explaining the stuff that they need to and stuff like Twitter is really ruined speech because that 140 character limit is not conducive to a nuanced mm-hmm complete

[00:41:33] Jacob: Explanation of anything it's got to be short and punchy and Mimi and that's what's rewarding you know in if it insults them perfectly to the people who are listening to it then you get more likes and you know there's got a slap but it's not helpful it's got to be bass boosted yes cool man let's not dive too much farther and that we will in coming episodes these are thinking oh man I'm in the chair that just randomly sinks down all the time see you later I would love to talk a little bit more about philosophy go so the bio that I've like

[00:42:07] Spencer: That yours is armchair philosopher

[00:42:10] Jacob: And then mine is a junkyard philosopher I just enjoy I mean I don't know what I claim to know and I don't really know what I know yet but I enjoy a

[00:42:20] Spencer: Philosophy of all aspects um I will say

[00:42:22] Jacob: My favorite I gotta say Alan Watts and

[00:42:28] Spencer: Carl Jung probably might my top

[00:42:31] Jacob: Two Alan Watts it's like a pretty easy obvious one like anybody who likes anything in the realm of what we like usually is into some sort of Alan Watts oh you don't know Alan Watts is al an waa TTS on YouTube or Spotify and people have done some really cool **** with his lectures you probably recognize his voice it's just really nice to listen to I like to go on walks just put him in add phones Carl Jung is yeah what was he scottish i don't know much about him personally i just know about the test in a lot of his teachings yeah he's a dude yeah he's great and those are my top two who you talked to you philosophers yeah that's rough okay so

[00:43:13] Spencer: This is something i narrow down it to is though i've done like a lot of research on and I've done a lot of reading me and one of my friends he wants to be a philosophy professor so beautiful and I work out with him every night so he's probably spent three hours talking about philosophical points almost every single day well it's cool because now I'm going to make you bring him with you on the podcast I told him I want him to come here he's so cool I was great if he'd be down that really would be cool top that later my two favorite I would say also I apologize for the noise you're hearing I'll try to edit it out as best I can but I had a little bit of a basement flood and it appears that they're fixing the Plouffe the pipes upstairs right now so sorry Spencer continued buddy so rough cuz this in company this encompasses so many different like parts

[00:44:01] Jacob: Of belief mm-hmm

[00:44:05] Spencer: Politically I really like the Frankfurt School thought which is basically just all the communist guys I really like all of them as philosophers they're great if you like it hey get dick by capitalism and you think your life sucks cuz you're being you're selling your time Marxism go look up the Frankfurt School of thought and just listen to their ideas okay can you explain what he's made of the death I'm not sure the Franklin School thought is a group of people around when Marx was alive and they just kind of had a lot of they just had a lot of ideas that were pretty communist and they did a lot of poking at capitalism and like political structures and whatnot right and that's kind of what they believed I really like them there's a there's a podcast that does excellent expose on all these people that is very unbiased it's called philosophize this if you want to I think that I've heard their stuff I think they even I'm YouTube short videos to is excellent it's very good and it's very unbiased very educational philosophize this is cool and then I a manual can't I like a lot I don't like

[00:45:04] Spencer: His view on metaphysics this is like pretty deep in the weeds because you would have to like to know a lot about what he's saying but everything else that he believes I really enjoy who David Hume is great as well I can't think that is he's the ultimate skeptic he's like this a jolly Scottish man who was just like just the biggest skeptic but he was always happy like a traditional mark right of a philosopher it's like there's a sad insel who just like never sees the light and it's just internally tormented but he's like the well-spoken Scottish man who's all jolly

[00:45:37] Jacob: And enjoys everything but he was just like a really strong skeptic incredible imagine if Steven Pinker was like hit but what all he writes is just actually just you look at everything sucks isn't you know I talk about all this stuff and everything is jolly and great and we're am very optimist but realistically it's just disaster most of the fingers are really sad they're very torn I mean okay because so thinking about these things the average person versus of so a philosopher what does a philosopher think about they think about this like what everything is right like a like okay well let's define that let's back up philosophy let's define philosophy okay before I'm just gonna interject real quick two of my favorite

[00:46:16] Spencer: Grandstanding ideas come from a man he's French named Albert Camus okay he does Absurdism which is basically like a world like there's just nothing like this is just complete chaos and you must be you must be happy and the idea that nothing has meaning and that's beautiful and freeing everything is absurd yes everything Oh everything is absurd that guy was my jumping off point into doing all this like learning and I really enjoy his working so if you want to follow that it's kind of a catapult into sadness so if you're not careful yes so that's kind of the problem because Nihilism is what is before that and I was like the world means nothing like I'm sad and depressed

[00:46:54] Spencer: My life is meaningless and a lot of nihilist run back to religion because it's comfort and it's this it's as hard belief though your life has meaning but if you just take one step further I know or even hold on to that like that feeling where you don't have your feet are off the ground if you just hold on to that for a couple of months a couple weeks its life gets really fun over saying hey I really like discovering philosophies I'm like oh man okay my brain is on structuring right now I didn't realize that it's just it's so oh

[00:47:19] Jacob: I love that it's like my favorite it's so great to just unfold what you know to learn something new and you must have someone else to bounce it off to because

[00:47:27] Spencer: I have more questions than answers doubt than even when I started like I am way more puzzled like I spend every day tiling over like ethically how should I treat people like it these are my world views like right there's just so much nuance and there's no answer and it's so fulfilling to just work over it oh no and go a whole day holding on to a

[00:47:46] Jacob: Belief you like man I think this might be like the thing and you're walking around and you're having like profound insights about it and then two days later you're like oh I forgot I even thought that was the thing you know you stumble upon these like awakenings is a strange word but it's kind of what it is like just a realization it's a religion just have more you've been presented with the worldview or an idea that you don't currently have and you get a test it with yours and see if it's good if this is better than if this is a better worldview than I currently have I'm going to adopt it and yet we'll allow you if you're open-minded to constantly shift and evolve your worldview and if you do enough studying you can have a perfectly congruent worldview and then you know how to treat people you know how to act you can understand that they have different obvious - you can really understand yes and you're much more open to ideas because of this do you think that the do you think the average listener like has really had a life-altering like worldview like a I mean like so let's

[00:48:45] Jacob: Say a traumatic a person who's gone through a traumatic time in their life they've had a life-altering view okay so you for example like you talked about how like your life has been pretty like it's not too bad but like you are able to see that you know that life is more

[00:49:02] Spencer: Than just a safe bubble of whatever you've created whenever you have grown up with you've challenged that and you've explored the rest of the world like you've left the ground you walk on be shaky because it's like a what-if thing I think a lot of other

[00:49:14] Jacob: People say hmm a worldview change like

[00:49:20] Spencer: Like being able to actively change who you are so a lot of people here's a good example sorry I was flirting around it when you're 40 years old a lot of people are like oh I thought I knew everything when I was 25 and they'll give you some examples samples of whatever they're like I was a **** idiot when I was 25 I like to say things like that I think that while we're 25 we there's a

[00:49:40] Jacob: Lot of people who aren't willing to admit that when they're 40 that's likely that's gonna happen or when they're whatever yet this age it's gonna happen like these do what you think now is

[00:49:48] Spencer: Probably going to drastically change

[00:49:51] Jacob: Philosophy like you have stuff like that like every day the more you learn about these things or the more you're like oh I think maybe I believe that it's like a flip switch where we're like stuff just man I wish I could like think of like a movie scene that just like moves the person is still there but the whole setting shifts you know what I mean that sounds kind of what it does when your worldview shifts you can do ones yeah okay so say you have to describe that to a **** robot someone who doesn't understand my order someone who has never felt they've never they've lived in a cave their whole life whatever I don't know they've never had some profound shift and changing what they

[00:50:31] Spencer: Believe in I would say if anyone's ever

[00:50:34] Jacob: Left or gone to religion you know what it's like mmm definitely I mean it's just a complete reworking of how you view the world and the values that you hold so I in high school was a very

[00:50:50] Spencer: Empirically driven just like complete rational like if their numbers don't support it I don't support it like all this will **** I'm just not gonna accept it because this is not the real world sure and I took everything at face value and I denied everything that wasn't that and slowly as I grew up started think about things and I wasn't very empathetic person I didn't look at things from other people's point of view I always questioned everything but it was to be right and slowly growing up

[00:51:15] Jacob: And just doing research on how to think and all these other people that have been the great thinkers of our times I guess and seeing how they think and bouncing off how I am and then slowly adopting these things has completely changed Who I am as a core being but it didn't happen very quickly so I can't really attest to what it's like it was a very slow growth and I would

[00:51:41] Spencer: Encourage people to not completely shatter their own world yeah you don't slowly get into this your egos very you need to protect it to some degree you can't just completely be blown up like you got a slowly challenged everything you believe if you challenge everything blue it wants it's gonna be really overwhelming it in that and that is something seriously though if you if you are exploring a lot of these things a lot of like different philosophies a lot of psychology when you start to understand things like more in-depth

[00:52:10] Jacob: Alright so that's something with psychology you know philosophy is right there at hand but psychology as I start you know reading psychology books and

[00:52:19] Spencer: Exploring more into that world I

[00:52:22] Jacob: Start realizing like you know you start thinking about when you move your right arm you know like why did I move my right arm and in this way and you start connecting things to different things that's the travel example about the right arm but you start looking at things from a different lens because your lens is now more intelligent you're upgrading you're upgrading your hardware here like you're able to look at more things it I it does get shaky if you're not careful I'm definitely if you like dive pretty deep a lot of like the people healing like childhood traumas and doing like hypnotism stuff and a lot of the stuff that is in this world is a little shaky but it's super exciting so but if you if you feel yourself like man this feels uncomfortable like don't retreat from it but give yourself enough self-love to be like let's kind of explore something that I enjoy let's not watch this next documentary about AI and in what is reality and all this sort

[00:53:17] Jacob: Of stuff you know take a step back and find your sanity before you go exploring into it I mean there's an eagle whiplash with all things too whenever you're trying to change yourself like your life's like guitar string and like all things you're trying to your body's trying to achieve homeostasis or stay at a baseline and it realizes that you've survived where you're at so we should stay here because if we changed all maybe we won't survive even if it's for the better your body wants to hold on there so when you strum this guitar string it goes up and it goes down you get that pulldown effect and that if you challenge too many things at once it's going to be very overwhelming your end up a worse off than you were before so we just slowly like introduce new ideas like find just like find one school of thought to tackle like how do

[00:54:00] Spencer: I feel about like being alive or like the existence in general like do I think that there's a God like do I think that the world is just this chaotic mess that accidentally happened you're asking these things for no and you have to have an answer you can wonder no you don't have an answer yeah that's the thing I think that's the thing as people they say I don't know and they end the

[00:54:20] Jacob: Conversation that they're like you know I don't know but yeah I was just on a hike and I found myself I noticed that I was just doing a house for minutes I was literally just looking at the mountains in the sky and one position wasn't moving and I was just kept in this state of wonder like I wonder what man like what is this of all these things I've learned like you know I don't know I wonder what this is it's just it's so interesting and you start noticing that it's just beautiful is the thing is wonder leads to beauty man it really does is because you don't know in remaining in not knowing remaining in disbelief getting yourself there is great but remaining in disbelief it's just super important you don't have to know you can just wonder something that I cherish a lot is the fact that all the

[00:55:03] Spencer: Philosophical ideas that I hold are not truisms and that they're subject to change and I will never know for certain so I get to spend my whole life wondering I'm getting an answer is so **** boring no I just don't want to know whether yeah what am I gonna do I just need to ponder this my whole life and then through this I get to be a more efficient effective affectionate person that's excellent and the pursuit of knowledge or thought even if it's not what I believe like at least exploring these ideas to allow yourself to view the world in a more wholesome manner that is more like you can back up your ideas like hey I feel this way because of this and this and this and this is how I see things it's very even if I

[00:55:44] Jacob: Respect that a lot I respect people that

[00:55:47] Spencer: They have strong opinions and they have all these ideas but they've got a very deep-rooted reason why and at least

[00:55:55] Jacob: Some kind of rationale to getting there it's when people haven't questioned anything and they believe things very strongly that is very upsetting right it's like hey how can you have these foreign opinions you've never explored anything yeah and you know why wouldn't you want to explore it feels so good it is very frightening and I understand that I just have the perfect personality set up to really seek these things out and a lot of people just aren't gonna want to do that but I think it's a very it will be very helpful for everyone to just maybe question where they currently believe whatever you believe the strongest you should question it ya know why do I

[00:56:25] Spencer: Believe this but not to say like I think they're trying to tell me that this is wrong and it's not the absolute truth it's like no it's because life is very wonderful when you question things like life is life is a journey I mean you dude this is at all

[00:56:41] Jacob: Times you're on you can be on a loading screen of the coolest game ever and just choose what adventure you're gonna go down like what character you're gonna be in and if you just stuck on one character the whole time you know if you forget that you can press B and go back to the **** loading screen sometimes you know like you're gonna get maybe you're super good at being a swordsman but you can try the archery you know yeah you have this like magical thing between your ears that you can flex all the time just like a muscle and if you don't flex it how you got to push all the buttons man you got to think about stuff go seek new ideas out I mean maybe there's reaffirm what you believe great maybe they don't and no matter what you are in a better spot so if you never seek out any of this information

[00:57:19] Spencer: You're just gonna I mean it I think you're just gonna be suffer really even silently even though you don't know that you're currently doing it not seeking out nuance in life and new ideas and all these wonderful things they go along with just like sitting and thinking in pursuing these ideas you're just you're just shorting yourself because we don't live for very long and you're really just gonna be you're just gonna decide at 20 that this is what you believe and you're never gonna test it again and then you're gonna go sell your time to work and then that's it you're just gonna work and die you just know you're never gonna enjoy the little finer things in life the you have that this is for sure like the stories of afterlife like I'm I don't know I mean you're here now why you worry about that you got a medal a ground you got a whole world full of people that have already thought about stuff you can go play around with these toys you can do

[00:58:10] Spencer: It in life is you can it's a choose-your-own-adventure I mean really think about it's in life we think that it's always just looking for the most happiness but it's actually just choosing what struggles you want like what's true what pain do you want to endure what suffering are you willing to take on in this 100 years of life or however long you're gonna live it's like we think it's like find something that's safe and just to hunker down and that was a way of living them

[00:58:37] Jacob: For a long time but like we're safe we have food we can we can explore like it's not you don't have to just focus on surviving now we can we can wonder about it and yeah explore like if the ideas that you hold so strongly and I've never questioned so okay if you're a caveman you get all your caveman friends do the pointy stick you find the cave with the one entrance all the ideas that you hold really strongly have never questioned or sitting at the back of that yours protect stab and everything else that comes in mm-hmm but maybe you should wander out of that cave and then go look what out look what's out there you make oh **** there's way more world

[00:59:11] Spencer: I didn't realize I was in a cave this is what I was talking about with the maze a lot of times people have their back against the wall and their maze and sometimes I feel like the conversations that I'm trying to have are above the maze now I'm above the maze saying hey dummies like remember like you put four quarters in and you get you're in the maze game like and then they're gonna back oh yeah okay we're forgot that we were in the maze we've been here four years and they're just gonna drop their sword and climb out of the maze and just come hang out with me I think when you say the maze I think it says an s awesome analogy for yes like life and thinking and whatnot because it's so easy to just believe your stuff

[00:59:45] Jacob: And barrel down it but hey maybe we should look at this stuff yeah man take a look like okay yes you're focused on your fight focus on your hat as you're swinging your sword and in your you're in the heat of the moment you know experience that and feel that then also remember like okay wait oh yeah I'm on earth and I'm and that's in the galaxy

[01:00:05] Spencer: And that's in the universe and I'm just a human being which has to do with evolution and all these thing I don't probably add evolution to that story but I just slip down again in this old chair if anyone ever finds any

[01:00:19] Jacob: Philosophical ideas new chair that they just want somebody even talk about definitely common in one of these hello yeah I'd love to go off on one I just don't really want to get into the weeds with stuff that people aren't interested in because what I'm interested is probably not what other people are interested in well and that's okay though I mean you're you're my good friend and this is this is my podcast so we had talked about we're interested in but also you know in a supportive way to teach other people who if they're as resident into they can kind of know a little bit and we could compare ideas with it to it's all about discussion you know about just kisses find someone to talk to talk about stuff yeah I mean that's the thing too as I'm like as much as I used to be like so

[01:00:57] Jacob: Afraid of comments right like you have a tiptoe so in over the last few years on Facebook and YouTube and all these Twitter especially comments just get where people find something that they disagree with and they try to rip you apart and then it becomes this argument comments are weird like we because we never decided like hey guys here's what we do with comments like we never fully decided that right and same with likes it's like do you like this product or do you dislike this product when you give it a thumbs down or do you just like the video about the product you know so I think that I have been a little bit afraid of comments but it's something I definitely want to be out about on this podcast is like amen you can kind of get it just for what we're talking about here I'm not claiming to

[01:01:40] Jacob: Me anything I'm just gonna be honest about what we're conversating about but if you think that there's something that would spark a good combo that you would like to listen to or you're like man I think that these guys might know a little bit about let's say Buddhism let's say whatever but meditation maybe they can teach me or hey I can't seem to meditate I'm not trying to like say that I'm some sort of dr. Phil here but if you can comment well we're gonna read them and we're gonna you can message me and tell me why I'm wrong about stuff -

[01:02:05] Spencer: I love to talk to you but yes yeah I don't what I'm what I'm emphasizing there is I don't want to do the debate thing I'm not trying to say these are my beliefs and we're arguing like it's not how we **** have conversation that's how the internet has started working and I'm just gonna openly say like I'm not participating in that **** I'm not trying to participate in everything being a debate and I'm right and you're wrong I just think that we need to relearn how to have conversation and remember that this is the Internet and there's human beings on the other side of that conversation so imagine you had to wait up every morning and in wave hi to your neighbor but you just talk **** to them on their avatar to their **** YouTube comments it's just ridiculous we're forgetting that we're in the maze and in comments

[01:02:45] Spencer: Have gotten weird but anyway I'm hoping to have good comments social media is the ultimate maze I was looking at my Instagram like this is just not an accurate representation of Who I am at all like if anyone approached me and then just wanted to talk about one of these things actually just wouldn't enjoy it not even a little bit like this is just not who I am and it's not who I want to talk about right but it's in my past what I posted - just get the fun clicks like this is my highlight reel look at me doing all this stuff but this is just not who I am at all but to a thousand people to follow me this is exactly who I am especially they don't know me is so strange so I'm really at a crossroads like do I just take everything down and just start

[01:03:20] Spencer: Posting some weird abstract stuff like what do I do with this weird machine I have no idea how to use it well here's the thing man is you are with that sentence you're kind of it almost seems like you're like fighting against something that's like you don't have to fight against it's like you don't have your Instagram doesn't have to represent exactly who you are in its entirety like thinking it ever did that was our problem it like I was looking at

[01:03:43] Jacob: My Instagram for example when it first came around it was it just had the coolest filters and filters at the very beginning words I can they just weren't around and I remember I had it took my first few photos I think were like me

[01:03:56] Spencer: Taking for Facebook I wanted to post it

[01:03:59] Jacob: On Facebook but I wanted a cool filter

[01:04:00] Spencer: So I used Instagram posted there and then copied in posted Facebook so that's what the start of Instagram was and I want to say that I looked at a day and half like 669 posts like I've never deleted in posts and I was thinking about a cycle I wonder if I should do because I've noticed over the last couple years what people are doing artists especially is they're deleting everything except for like four main posts and it's cool its artistic and I

[01:04:24] Jacob: Get it because it's kind of like your artistic board a lot of the times for Instagram but it's also kind of like and are we doing that because we're under the impression that people are going to your page to get the whole youth at once because that's not ever gonna happen that's you know like you can look through all 669 posts and you're not going to understand who I am at all your gonna know some things that I wouldn't been through and some things that I wore math through some things that I really went through maybe some of

[01:04:49] Spencer: My friends but there's so much more in depth about me or about anybody than just their social media right yeah well what the **** is this thing for anyways like why don't we even use this you don't figured that out we're just doing it because it's cool we haven't been like oh yeah we're just really we're drinking a lot of beer we haven't realized that like why are we doing a beer like why am I using this and every time I mean you're not even you that you were five seconds ago so every like all these pictures are someone that is not always quite literally not me anymore

[01:05:17] Jacob: Yeah so it can never be an accurate representation of who you are and I don't really know what to do with it so what is it really like what not what do we want it to be what is it like as it stands right now what is it for Instagram for a while okay I probably have a hundred poster over the first 75 is just like a hey look at me look at me doing the thing I want to be the guy with a nice cardigan you know you weren't aware that you were doing these things though it's not like and it's not like you were like oh I totally sucked and I was just like posting pictures of my bicep and like I really just wanted attention it's like it's just the nature of ego and the nature of human being and then I started I started telling myself I'm not posting here for anyone but

[01:05:58] Spencer: Myself it's just - just a catalogue

[01:06:01] Jacob: Things that's kind of **** - because if I just want to catalog stuff I would leave them in my photos so this whole thing is just a hey look at me I want cliques in general and I don't think there's really a way you can escape that unless you're on there to help people so I don't really know what the - like what I would use it for at this point well I don't know it's hard because I've noticed if I told you about like what

[01:06:25] Spencer: I've been doing like I'm back on social media and I'm kind of like it's like a little experiment for me and I tell you about the awesome trial run

[01:06:30] Jacob: Yeah I've like this may not make much

[01:06:33] Spencer: Sense to some people but like taking a year off from social media I mean I'm I would say I pretty thoroughly broke like my addictive qualities towards it and I was like super into my phone I just loved Instagram and **** but like

[01:06:47] Jacob: Now that I'm back on it for the race the podcast like I'm gonna be on it through December whatever I've been kind of like letting myself pick up my phone whenever and pull it out whenever I just find myself just like I'm refresh I post something and if I'm McClure and pull my phone and I refer see if I got any likes and all these things and it makes me stop I'm like what the **** like Wyatt you know I claim to be doing this podcast because it means so much to me why am i refreshing this post and then like oh yeah because like we you know as human beings we have addictive dopamine tendencies and we have certain ways of getting things and in the cellphone is a shortcut to get a lot of those things really fast and our brains are like I

[01:07:21] Spencer: Train remembering that way real hardcore for many years so it's just funny to like kind of let myself rip so to say and watch that I'm just like this dopamine social media hungry just like ran trying to consume more already I think that everybody needs to be more aware of what your phone is doing to you and then just say like why am i doing any of this why like what is

[01:07:43] Jacob: It yeah and when people delete post because they don't get enough likes that's something that's like they you know really think about that like it that's something that's rough that's you shouldn't feel that way about yourself like if you feel that way about yourself I want you to like not feel bad about that but think about it just think like man that's something that you know say a young kid or like a young like naive kind of mind would do it like well there's a part of that still runs a lot of our life a lot of us so you're a 30 old man and you posted a post and only got 5 likes in an hour and you hate that so you deleted it well that's not something that like the real you a real 30 old man would really like actually care about right like really think about that's that's a younger part of you that's something that you think that you're not getting in another area of your life in your mind your intelligence sees the shortcut this way to get it and it's doing that so just take it step and see that it's

[01:08:35] Jacob: Doing this it's funny because you probably don't give a **** about what the people that do like it think about you at a face value like if you were to meet one of the people you barely know like you actually don't care about their

[01:08:47] Spencer: Opinion at all about how they think about you cuz they don't know a lot of time yeah that's funny because people have internet friends if they don't talk to in real life we were kind of like that for a while I'd see if the gym and I'm like we talk all the time on Instagram and it'd be like ha like we definitely know each other for sure but we can't communicate at all well so that's something that like and but we can have a lot of conversation cuz that's something again that's the thing with social media it's never been addressed are these your real friends are these your like whatever and a lot of times it's not but a lot of times it's just like so you and I this is something that we'd not have a word for this but I like we get along very well I very much enjoy your company I very much enjoy talking to you on Instagram but for me going to the gym was a very huge difficult mental task for me it was hard sometimes I would get self-conscious talking to people sometimes out it would unlock it would pull me out of my like mental focus so

[01:09:35] Spencer: As much as I know people and do want to talk to him that doesn't mean that I could always be who I need to be at the gym in like that's the thing is a lot of

[01:09:43] Jacob: Times people that's a new thing I don't know like what to even put words on that like so that's something where I can't show up and be the Jake wrens that

[01:09:54] Spencer: You see on social media the Jake Ryan's that like you've known most of the time I couldn't be him when I was at the gym

[01:10:00] Jacob: Right but you know now and you knew about probably even then honestly but that like it doesn't mean that I don't actually care about you and it means that I actually only want you on social

[01:10:15] Spencer: Media for likes or something it's just something that's weird that none of us we're kind of assuming that these things mean this when you do this on social media but we're not taking a look

[01:10:26] Jacob: At like what your craziness that's that doesn't make any sense you know I we had a very odd relationship before we became really close you know yeah weird man I don't know okay what do we got so we just have a like a lot of very like all our close friends like your close friends or my close friends but we never actually really connected like until probably like a year ago yeah and I was like we'd be at your house it was always like we are both we're both attracted to being just the guy and there can't be two guys that I always felt like a not like a weird friction but it's always odd it was just like an always odd interaction that's crazy I it's crazy to me because

[01:11:10] Spencer: I didn't feel that even 1% really I was so unaware of that I had no idea I was literally just probably thinking about myself that 100 that time like I was probably like trying to do my performance I was trying to be such an outward chameleon that and that's the thing too is like a lot of people like when I talk about me an

[01:11:29] Jacob: Introverted person a lot of people are like what do you time like you're like one most extroverted people ever and I'm like yeah you know but I mean in you you know that now but um and it's so interesting we just assume that the other person is like maybe feeling the same thing and there's some sort of like not tension but it was very interesting

[01:11:49] Spencer: Because I felt like you couldn't be

[01:11:52] Jacob: You with me and I couldn't be me with you and it was like this weird it's like you're like the ultimate showman like just like the guy you're just being the guy right now and it was just it was very odd it was very odd because we have gotten we just I am so used to just really connecting with people especially if I already have friends with them it was always like this weird distance between you and I you know it's like the masks get in the way like it's like I'm so busy doing I'm so busy being the chameleon for the 16 people around me I can't be Jake Ryan's and actually have a good combo with Spencer a lot of times do you think some movie like that I don't know it was just always odd this

[01:12:28] Spencer: Is weird yeah it was very interesting

[01:12:30] Jacob: Well it's crazy that like two people can remain in the same you know in the same I guess position situation but be having

[01:12:38] Spencer: Vastly different like I've never even thought like okay here's another alpha male and my alpha is bumping up against his like it was never any sort of I don't know we're so wrapped up in our own heads a lot of the times that it's that it's interesting huh

[01:12:57] Jacob: Um Spencer you know what I do want to

[01:13:00] Spencer: Talk about dungeons direct uh I would

[01:13:05] Jacob: Like to I mean we could do it you know we can have a whole longer episode one of these days about this but can you give me so one thing that I feel pretty

[01:13:13] Spencer: Strongly about is it's kind of popular

[01:13:16] Jacob: For girls to jokingly make fun of this as a broad statement this damn chair I swear up and thrown out the door girls to make a broad statement about like

[01:13:27] Spencer: Let's say like oh if you play Dungeons and Dragons you're nerdy or oh if you play video games like oh you're a grown man like whatever I my opinions are whatever it is that you like whether that's like playing the flute with your toes or if it's dying all your white shirts blue every Friday like whatever you love to do especially if it's by yourself I really am a fan for people doing things that's like out that rips them out of

[01:13:57] Jacob: Like their friend group into a different friend group you know yeah I think that

[01:14:02] Spencer: It's important to like see things as not just like oh that's what a nerd does because we accidentally make fun of them

[01:14:08] Jacob: So I think we can humanize our interests when we learned about them that's what I'm trying to not ramble on about we can humanize our interests when we learned about them so that's Spencer we tease we please teach me a little bit about dungeons dragons do you want me to tell you why it's awesome we're going tell wanted to start with why it's awesome okay so I think it's incredibly awesome because you get to sit around with all your butt's okay let's say you were at a book but you don't know how any of it resolves okay so a little preface there the way it works is you have a group of people that are the players and then one dude that plays everyone like every character in the world makes the world writes the story or sets up all the things and then you guys kind of collaboratively improv go through all this together and kind of have like an oral collaborative storytelling moment it just allows people to okay you make a

[01:14:56] Spencer: Character in a world where you can deal

[01:14:58] Jacob: With highly sensitive issues or like really tense things in a very safe bubble through the lens of someone else so you write this really deep character and you get a deal with a really hard problem so that are really real but you can never touch them in real life because they're just dangerous you're ever in any of these situations it's like a life or death could you give a short example of maybe one of these situated and you're like dealing with the fate of Nations or you're like trying to help these townspeople like this is a very dire this is a dire moment that requires a lot of empathy for these people and you're like considering other sides but if you're really in this it's really a big problem in real life something's went really bad and you have to look at this through someone else's eyes that you have created with all their flaws so now you get a look at a world through someone else's eyes that's really torn up and that teaches you a great amount of empathy and then you get to tell the story with your friends and it's this

[01:15:54] Jacob: Big bonding experience it's actually I would trade it for any form of media forever for the rest of my life amazing yes it's a very excellent for introverts too because if you're really locked up with who you are you get it like go to this fantasy world you get to be a different person and then you get a like hang out with your friends and interact right be very boisterous you just get a play someone other than you for a while well I mean that's the thing is a lot of times we have to make these masks that we have to be in public but we get to make a mess that we enjoy now right so it is super important yeah I encouraged I think I always think like young kids there's a lot to be taught like it's probably it seems like a very intricate game but I think if they started like diving into that world um so it dungeon the dragon it's a board game I mean that's a terrible it's a tabletop game tabletop all right yeah kind of the same

[01:16:41] Jacob: Thing but it's a theater of the mind so mm-hmm I describe the setting I'm the game master that's the dude that deploys every week narrator kind of essentially so they walk into a bar I'm like okay well there's a there's a dwarf bartender she's female she's got orange hair like very cunning looks there's a man in a black trenchcoat in the back brandishing a Novus dagger he is very nervous like scouring the room looks like he's up to no good there was a bar fight in the left corner and I just paint this picture and then I say okay what would you like to do and then the characters does that what they want to do and you just have this back and forth but when you it does take a

[01:17:18] Spencer: Lot of trust in each other and writing ability I mean at first you're just not get a writing character so it's not as enthralling but once you learn the intricacies of all these things it's like riding a deep character with the love many flaws and you get a play through this world it's really fun and I would say it's the most engaging thing that I do and I would give it up for nothing and it's something that I will always do forever and I really highly recommend everyone try it at least once especially if you like video games like it is such a violently personal experience that you'd have dear friends and no one else is ever gonna have that - and all these rules that are set up in this book you just don't have to buy by them like if this is cooler for me to just not allowed like just allow this to happen like this is make pretend land and we're just hanging out and telling the story like oral storytelling is such

[01:18:01] Spencer: An important part of tradition and almost all cultures except for it's gone because we have the internet and we're gonna sit down and now if you're not if you're at a podium or around a campfire you're probably jackass yes maybe a little bit storytelling it's important but it's just a beautiful experience and I will do with my kids because it's just opened me up to so many really amazing people and amazing things and it's just allowed me to have such a strong bond with like my close friends that I do it with like in these you just get so you become the person that you're playing and you just get so embel obtain the story it's just it's awesome it's so satisfying to do did it sound so fun I feel like it's you cuz again it's people judging it off not really knowing I mean me personally before like I mean cuz Tyler's been into

[01:18:48] Spencer: It for quite a while too before he had ever like mentioned it to me I didn't really have any opinions about it but in the back of my mind I did think I knew that it was like oh it's just like some board game that like your typical nerdy guy would play yeah its foreign interference I don't have girlfriends sit on their mom's basement drinking Mountain Dew and just go roll dice and kill dragons so funny that we have these we don't even mean to but we have these postured stored with these postures towards things before we even ever interact with them it's so silly but I think that man that sounds like this thing about that without the name not knowing anything but even if you don't really like dragons the situation you just said like that is the coolest idea for a game ever okay so you make up your own situation you walk into a bar

[01:19:25] Spencer: And here's these things that are happening now what like the possibilities that are endless the excitement that I feel even as you're just telling me I just want to be a part of that so can we just make the rest of the podcast edge dragons what's our situation oh damn I'm gonna need a lot more just give me a world to work in so do you have like realistic characters like so when your friends play with you do you have a name they just play a static character

[01:19:50] Jacob: For the entire thing they play one person we've probably played for a hundred and twenty hours and they've like I have just depending on their backstories what their flaws are and like so you know their characters more over time - yeah so today you slowly get to know the stories that curates the story of antenna you just develop nuance and everyone flows together and if you write your back stories - like line up and then everyone's got and you got interpersonal problems but then you also have like world problems and it's this insane simulation of a fantasy world that it actually deals with a lot of real-life philosophical points and you get to work through maybe your own drama one of my favorite things to do is play characters as close to my chest as I physically can and I go yeah I get to deal with all my own problems and wrongs in this fantasy world where nothing Bad's gonna happen it's just it's such an amazing like and it's so good for your brain to like the so I basically

[01:20:38] Jacob: Seventy percent of the time I'm improving so there they can just do whatever they want so if I put them in a town they're like hey we're gonna go down we're gonna go up to the next town and we're gonna do this thing I'm like

[01:20:46] Spencer: Okay I didn't prep for that so now I have to improv for four hours about okay well what's in that room then you got to figure out what's in that room so the amount of like mental flexing I have to do right - so improv is a pretty

[01:20:59] Jacob: Important tool I grew up a acting and grew up I loved the stage so improv is not a foreign thing to me I think understanding improv I was thinking of if you watched the office yeah you know

[01:21:10] Spencer: Ever see Michael Scott when his improv he'd just like ruin he just train wrecks every situation he's again I have a gun and now it's just different I think that's another thing like problem solving that you learned from games like that because so your people can't just be like and I threw a smoke grenade into the bar and everybody had to leave because that just derails little thing

[01:21:29] Jacob: Right you can but what's the social repercussions okay now you killed a bunch of people in the town now the guards are after you and now you got to deal with this Heywood your character do that you're like oh this is value you're a good nature character would you really kill these people like if you actually write a character and you abide by it will we'll just tell you how to act can we just say that real life is exactly like this yeah it's a simulation of real life yeah big-ass simulation of real life and you actually learn a lot this is your adventure here you guys you can choose your adventure I this is I'm in the cool I'm in a studio

[01:22:00] Spencer: In my home and I'm talking to like one of my very good friends on microphones that I know about and I purchased them in like when I was a little kid I was just like I like music and like you can choose your adventure your adventure could be like music makes me happier or paintbrush makes me happy or car hearts make me happy or being in the woods doing whatever it is man just use the Smurf shirts make me so **** happy size large Smurf shirts I just want to spend the rest of my life with them and you just point at that and they're gonna open a bunch of other doors I was like music that opens all these other doors so um something to do improv is a huge thing obviously with D&D its most of it I would say it's an 80% of what happens if you actually were like a like a thespian we really should do this together cuz you would really enjoy it what's the thespian is find that theater person okay can you also define

[01:22:52] Jacob: Improv like make sure that's well it's the it's yes and so it's like you okay you're in a dark room and there's a light switch okay well I go flip it and then you slowly just work off this thing that's you're just bouncing off each other mm-hmm so can you give an example of someone who would potentially like let's say quote-unquote ruin that bar situation you're just talking about like how could they come in as like a train wreck who doesn't understand like the rules of what's going on and they just kind of hold you guys okay is that possum like a player yeah like it likes it's a what I'm hinting at is kind of like a social unawareness right like you're trying to be yourself so much you're trying to be the funny guy that you just kind of ruin this game there was there's this thing called being a murder hobo that's just

[01:23:35] Spencer: What it's called is epic and so like usually if you're telling a big narrative you want to have a pretty congruent worldview and your characters want to be deep and they just like don't fly off the rails and like it so like okay if you're playing Grand Theft Auto I just go kill everyone that's what being a murder hobo is like you're just like it just causing mayhem for no apparent reason and it doesn't go like your character is no point you're just killing stuff and poking the world huh that what else can play with you and that gave you that real stuff because you just aren't abiding to a story we're not telling a story we're just rolling dice and killing stuff and that's not the fun part if you want to do that just play games like video games mm-hmm that will

[01:24:09] Spencer: Derail it because it's just you're just not abiding by our social contract that we're about to tell the story you're just gonna go kill stuff and grab the loot yeah you have to have rules for games to exist I mean if you like football even you if there was no rules in football like okay you just score a touchdown but you just keep running and you go home with a football cause it's mine now and nobody else gets to play anymore yeah you have to have rules I will say though if you can get everyone together to tell this story and they all agree on some stuff you can just like really fly off the rails if you follow in that like there's a very large section of

[01:24:41] Jacob: What is okay culturally in this setting yeah and I will say that if you don't

[01:24:47] Spencer: Have a creative outlet and start to do creative writing like read a sci-fi book read fantasy book read a true-crime see what you like study themes go enjoy stuff I was always told myself I was this rational being and I just not an artsy guy at all I may learn to play guitar pretty easily but not to any real proficiency when I started doing this and like really writing like a lot it just for like five people that we sit down on the table at and then watching them really enjoy it and this has been one of the most rewarding beautiful things I've ever done and it's made me flex my creative brain to such a high degree and I really think those people that tell themselves that they aren't creative are just lying to themselves and it really can be and it's such an excellent way to express yourself and it feels so incredibly good I agree dude I always say it's like a feedback loop for Shay if she says anything like I'm not creative I'm like hey babe will you like sketch this out

[01:25:41] Jacob: For me where you draw this or like what do you think something like I don't know I can't because I said I'm creative I'll show her song and she bug I don't understand and I'm like you she says that she's not creative but I'm always just like you're wrong yes and you gotta believe me I just gotta allow yourself to let go just letting go of the words that you say that you are like oh I'm not creative that **** and go do it yeah it's a human ability is to

[01:26:03] Spencer: Be creative it's a thing that you get to do you get to synthesize things your ideas you get to put them all together in a very specific way that no one cut of and that is definitely art and I don't care if only one person likes it the beauty about D&D is I get a value my own ideas and only four people have to think it's cool it's the only four people that's just four these four people yeah that's **** awesome and it feels so it just feels great it's one of the most rewarding experience I've ever had and I really think that people should try it there's a bunch of other games that are like more real-life setting to like it's not like this yeah under that same genre of games that yes

[01:26:40] Jacob: So that so that's the world of course ducks and Dragons but that's so tabletop game do you think a lot of them kind of have that have a little bit sort of the same yeah you got like sci-fi games you got like vampire games you start games it's all about romance like I really and I don't want females to

[01:26:54] Spencer: Think that this is just a dude thing like this is an awesome thing you should get your girl friends together and do and just like hang out and you can just test all these things it's like a very excellent thing to do so one thing with we're texting earlier this morning about it The Improv reminded me of it I think I was telling you this morning about running a bit of

[01:27:13] Jacob: A like a Saturday Night Live things I tell you about that I'm in high school I ran it I didn't run it I was in a Saturday dive thing essentially we were shut down halfway through because someone in the crowd was offended that's something that we specifically had done oh that's what you're trying to tell me yeah so yeah I didn't want to say it all in text but um so what happened when I was in high school we had just like the coolest had been in drama classes and acting and all that in our drama class you turn of this like

[01:27:47] Spencer: Lenient super cool awesome thing like we were pretty self-sufficient with our own stuff so we basically made for like a senior night a Saturday Night Live thing to where it's in between like some other performances of art of like the choir and stuff like that we would go out and we would take the stage for 10 minutes in between and kind of mix it up but um so we have like individual funny skits and we ended up doing one and this was way back away and like this may seem like absurd now but way back when I was in high school this is 2010 and we did a skit where something about the swine flu this is how far along it was this is this everybody was freaking out about swine flu our joke was like maybe everyone's taking the swine flu a little too seriously and we have like a fake like death on stage like a fake gun

[01:28:32] Jacob: Like fake again like please put yourself back in 2010 like this wasn't what you're doing but what happened was someone in the audience had recently had someone in their life that committed suicide and so she I don't up chin like stand up and point her finger you know but she like it happened to know someone who was in charge she came and said like this is not okay blah and that person who came up to obviously like we don't know what to do with these situations apparently so we got shut down like literally they're like I'm sorry you guys can't go and were like what your time right we haven't even done half of our skits we've been working on this for four months what are you really saying and we literally had to like leave like we were done like we weren't allowed to finish it because our skit on stage not of all like the you know whoever at the admit whatever amount of people were in the crowd that person was offended so I forget exactly what the pinpoint that with the cornerstone of our conversation this morning but it wasn't in regards to that the crowd so the question is this person's one feeling valid enough to ruin every else's

[01:29:34] Spencer: Viewing experience like are you as a person allowed to just say I think this is wrong and I want to shut down or should you just say hey I'm personally not comfortable this I'm going to leave yes like is that because this is a that's a valid opinion to have like that is product I do my best to never say like oh I'm gonna kill myself or like

[01:29:54] Jacob: This makes me want to kill myself especially when I'm around mixed company because I don't know like what that's gonna trigger yeah but you're gonna end up tiptoeing around a lot of people if you're if you're following that same suit you know like yeah but like where's the line like how much am I supposed to dance around other people's internal problems in speech because you can't just like walk around in the world like it's just there's eggshells everywhere yeah but you also need to be considerate about others like I do think that lady was probably in the wrong I mean good intentions understand it let me she was assuredly she's in pain someone next to her just took their own life and she it hurts her enough to like I'd be like I need to escape this pain that I that's starting to come up so bad that I need to go tattle or not at all but tell someone I mean it's a pretty intense feeling that she's feeling right yeah but should she have just left and yes hey I don't think this is good so I'm gonna leave I'm not going to grace this area with my presence or yeah I

[01:30:48] Jacob: Think this standing up for what you believe in is being thrown into like situations like that which is just like hey you know tragedies happen like this is of course again this is talking about this right now is just like there's a lot of weird ironies because like I was going to kill myself and like all these weird that now with society you know things are way more offensive but it's kind of what I just want to address like even that whole thing I just think we can't continue this was in 2010 and these are the kind of things that happened hardcore now it seems like anyway seems like the person who is in the crowd gets this like stand up for what you believe in confused with I'm an audience you know when you're an audience member you be an audience member you don't shout at the person on the stage you don't have an interjection with the person on the stage you leave it you don't try to shut it down you it's I mean just where's the line as

[01:31:43] Spencer: Always the question yeah like how much

[01:31:46] Jacob: Are we supposed to pander to people when they're quote offended I really do taking consideration everyone's feelings when they're offended about something because I'm sure it's very valid but the problem is a lot of people are offended of bad faith just because they don't like the person that is offending them so they're gonna go they're gonna say whatever they need to say to get this person away from them or not speaking anymore like do we complete the altar

[01:32:11] Spencer: Society because some people are offended

[01:32:13] Jacob: I mean this is a very sensitive topic and it's also very lot of nuanced in every single in so many different corner yeah every situation deserves its own consideration but when do we just make being offended a personal problem and when is it a societal problem sometimes being offended as kind of a your problem if your sensibility is very sensitive and you or it's your personal duty to stay away from things that offend you but something should offend you no matter who you are and definitely need to be changed like slavery and **** like that like race there's certain things where you totally should stand up for but I just think that we our efforts would be

[01:32:56] Spencer: Better focused if we reserved all our outrage for things that are extremely important and not in minutiae because we get lost and being really upset about a lot of really small things that I definitely do matter but on a overall

[01:33:12] Jacob: Level if we if people that are more sensitive or chronically offended would just focus their efforts to some really big things they'd probably get a lot further mm-hmm because but the regular average person that knows nothing about these small details of society in life and they just are not empathetic to this person will just think they're being a whiny little baby and then not take anything they see her seriously right yeah we have to have empathy but we have to have again you know self-awareness of our own self in that situation like this situation is it's a lot bigger than me these this situation

[01:33:47] Spencer: My past my recent history of my personal life doesn't really have anything to do with this situation I'm an attendee in my job in this crowd as an attendee

[01:33:58] Jacob: So whatever like stretch whatever that stretches out you know I'm like this is a theater analogy here but whatever the

[01:34:05] Spencer: Expansion of that maybe life's so weird Jake and so we're dude I don't get it I

[01:34:12] Jacob: Just what's it what's the I don't know you know what we're just trying to figure out the point of it all right like we don't without knowing an answer again like we're just accepting that I may not know an answer but I think I'd have found life and just knowing that it's weird in exploring the weirdness of it yeah and there is no answer and that's kind of the fun part it seems extremely daunting but that's the beauty in it mm-hmm my personal belief is that we just this is just completely meaningless everything's an accident the world is complete chaos that's super frightening but you got to look at it like that's really freeing as well because there's no anchors on you there's no purpose of this you're just gonna live your truest self and then be what you want to be so there's an old Greek proverb not

[01:34:57] Spencer: Proverb with the story so believed Sisyphus is one of the Greek gods or

[01:35:03] Jacob: Demigods and he came here with the trick

[01:35:06] Spencer: Zeus he tricked one of the other gods and he was forced to roll a boulder up a hill while a vulture endemic for ever forever and to look at that he was like oh this is it this is perpetual suffering but this is an allegory for life I think you're always pushing this Boulder up this hill like this is a constant struggle but you must see the chaos in this and you must be a smiling Sisyphus like you must relish in this like this is what you have so you must enjoy it this is your only option

[01:35:35] Jacob: Yeah I think that I mean complaining is a strange think a lot of times people like you can't just stand there like here's what's happened to me here's what life is okay like you're still living it

[01:35:48] Spencer: Though so I'm gonna go over here because

[01:35:51] Jacob: You're kind of grumpy yeah being a being a victim only hurts you to some degree yeah like people are rightfully I mean if you are literally a victim of something you're rightfully a victim but you choose whether to continue on being like that or not and it's only gonna attract from your own life if you constantly just refer to these things in your life that have been terrible and you let these anchor you and hold you back and you just constantly feed into this is just like a very low ego like

[01:36:18] Spencer: **** that goes on mm-hmm and people

[01:36:21] Jacob: Just use it to stay comfortable like if

[01:36:24] Spencer: They can just come just justify all their bad actions and all their missed plays in life because of this one thing that happened to them mmm Dori that is never gonna grow like if you never break the chains of that you're never gonna you're never gonna feel content or happy you're just gonna live in this perpetual cycle of **** and blame and once you

[01:36:46] Jacob: What I've come to realize that all my problems are my fault ultimately they really are and if they weren't put there by me they still are my problem you're the only one who could solve them we're not solving this and not solving them as it's pointless like I am the curator of my own life and to put my problems on other people is just unreasonable and not helpful and I will never get anywhere because of it so I think spending time you know granted like just

[01:37:11] Spencer: Conversation and gossip is an existing thing but spending time pointing out other people's problems to know prevail to is like I think that's a lot of passing the time it's a lot of what news does to you again is it presents other people's problems so you have something to talk about with other people who also have watched those problems I mean why not talk about your problems and be like hey man what would you do for this problem and you could try that and then you can make your life better like don't just stay stag and you know a victim when you're in the victim mindset it sucks that word has like it sparks offended 'no sand it sparks like I mean offensiveness and victim those are both words that have been like catapulted and stolen by political whatever but when you're in the seed of the victim you don't see your own

[01:37:59] Jacob: **** like in order to get better you have to stop being a victim it's kind of like oh okay so a victim you know the 12-step program like that for like getting support soap sober the first step they always say well we heard the movies like admitting that you have a problem well the step right before

[01:38:18] Spencer: Admitting you have a problem is victimhood I don't know that I haven't studied Tulsa programs I could be just like it don't let me like ruined 12-step programs with that but I'm just saying the state of being that you're in of like here's what happened to me and I'm never gonna get better because of it and blah so in turn you're kind of a **** **** to the people around you right and it's like when they're like hey you got to be nicer to us and you're like I can't be nicer because this thing happened well you're in the

[01:38:44] Jacob: Victim part and like that's the thing is what happened to you **** valid you know a lot of times these people have gone through traumatic experiences but when you're stuck in the victim spot you can't move you can't be budged you'd like well you would do it too or of course I'm like this because this happened and it's like no you are like this because that's happened but you need to understand that the only person who could change it now is you know when you're in the seat of the victim you can't change and improve and move forward you have to realize that you've been a victim in that you know with me with the depression thing it was like it wasn't you it doesn't have to be self-imposed to make you know I finally realized that I was on keeping myself and depression thinking that I needed to suffer thinking that this is just how it is thinking that every single thought that came up out of thin air was just me and that's who I am and all these like evil thoughts and bad thoughts or just me and the self hate thoughts are just the only thoughts that I'm capable of having but you gotta grow

[01:39:41] Jacob: Out that victim thing man it'll keep you down it's just not safe and people living at their whole lives - yeah I mean you could make a

[01:39:49] Spencer: Whole personality out of it how does that even happen that's people just get beaten down by the world and the pressure of life and you just fall in this perpetual victimhood and you just go to work Center time come home watch TV eat and be sad and dude **** that when you have that absolutely **** that don't be sad and then your suffering is also a push onto other people and I would say that's not ethical right like as a person that I hope cares about other people you would want to reduce the suffering of others and if you are internally suffering and

[01:40:20] Jacob: Then in turn other people are suffering because of it you're now way more of a problem than who thought you were and that's and don't be upset about that but

[01:40:31] Spencer: It's just something like hey I'm

[01:40:33] Jacob: Suffering I'm making other people suffer and I would like this to not happen anymore I don't want that dude you don't want to like you know you don't want to be mean to the people around you like if you're if you're if things are causing you to be mean to the people around you just I mean listen I don't have to know you whatever listener if you're being an **** to the people around you don't want to do that I don't have to know you at all to know that you don't want to be doing that do you want to be happy right like if you're being mean and you're being like in the or your anger or you're lashing out at people if you don't know how to handle situations you're screwed whatever it is that you're going through because you're in the victim mindset or if you're stuck in it these things that happen to you they haven't dealt with it's like you what's happening is your intelligence is sabotaging your life you know like you're turning against yourself and just knowing like just saying that to yourself like now cramp

[01:41:23] Spencer: Okay I'm doing nothing I don't want to be here though and that's all it takes from there you just you can start healing you start changing and start not being the victim to start okay let's see it see what I can change let's be let's be aware of my actions my the person that I am when I show up to the people around me my family whatever so probably I think was about two years ago I had a very traumatic experience that I would rather not have documented so I'm not going to actually talk about the any of it but it left me with crippling anxiety and depression and I had never felt either of those things ever and they left me with like a lot of like weird body sensations so I became a hypochondriac and I just was this perpetual victim for probably six months and I completely suffered and I'd never Intel my outlook and view changed on life and I decided that if I saw that was happening and decided to just not be like that anymore it just was never gonna change so you can control only yourself and it is only detracting from your own life to stay like this and I really encourage people to not be so

[01:42:21] Jacob: Beaten up beaten down by life rather and maybe just take the steps to not be that way it will only help you and what hurts you the most is just remaining this stagnant pool of sadness and depression that it's just it feels like you're drowning and I know that personally but there is there's air above that if you just allow yourself to relinquish some of these things you have to the air

[01:42:46] Spencer: The god the air after victimhood and

[01:42:50] Jacob: Depression and the colors after all that the beauty of the world that's returned to you when you have a such a change of perspective of like oh okay I can help myself I mean that's the thing that I want to be clear and I want to like overly explain to people is that like you can't you can't remain in the victim place and get better with whatever you're going through I want to go back to what you just said there is a you know six months your life where you had a lot of anxiety and stuff too you're in the victim mentality the word victim again like I said is it's just confusing nowadays it's something that when you say like oh you're being the victim it feels like it's like oh yeah that's offensive that you just said that you don't understand all these things it's so can you give me an example of kind of like maybe a victim but like what's a conversation that you and I maybe would have had in within those six months if I was like trying to say like hey you can get better by doing this what would your reaction be as a victim well I thought so anxiety left me one like a lot

[01:43:55] Spencer: Of bodily tingles and like a lot of chest pain and whatnot and I was really convinced that I was just dying mm-hmm cause I'm like oh and I've always taught myself like how long this rational reasonable person like of course I'm not being melodramatic or I'm not taking these things to be ridiculous so telling myself I'm smart rational made all these feelings more valid and if you would tell me that hey like yeah you're fine I'd be like well I mean I do know that but I'm not like you don't live my body you don't know what it's like so right but I think yeah like you don't understand these feelings and I understand them but really what was happening is you had a misunderstanding of the own your own feelings yes right and they're all self perpetuated as well like I did all this to myself like my internal workings is the reason I was here and everyone could see it and even I could see it on my hardest of hearts but the irrational because I mean I was kind of just boiled down to like caveman instincts chimp brain just like always in a hyper aroused state just always

[01:44:52] Spencer: Anxious always in this fight-or-flight state and your prefrontal cortex or the front part of your brain that does all your like cognitive thinking like oh you're real thinking shuts off when you're in fight or flight so it's really hard to reason so and it's **** up saying just know all this stuff and I did then and it's like you can be as rational as you want to but it's very hard this game and until I made a conscious effort to like start meditating and enjoying the things and just realizing that this is just the way it this is the way it is like and I'm just going to enjoy my life I'm not gonna let this be me because I've seen other people my life just become completely wilted right beaten by things that I don't think are worthy to be beaten by and I was currently doing that and I'm like I will not accept this from my cellphone I live the rest of my life like this and at one point in time I really thought I'm like I'm gonna be like this forever there's never gonna not be like this and that is the lowest of low that ever got to just to feel

[01:45:45] Spencer: Like I'm just and this is just my life

[01:45:48] Jacob: Now and learning to not accept that and

[01:45:51] Spencer: To seek out ways to mitigate these things I think it all comes down to mastering the thing between your ears mm-hmm like your third eye yeah just

[01:46:01] Jacob: Kidding but actually a little bit you do die I think that yeah I think thanks for sharing that for one it's so yeah cuz I got in the middle of it you don't understand that you can get better it's you that's gonna do it though yeah you're really amazed yeah you're deep in the maze you're like you tripped up yeah yeah I think a lot of the like genetics is always a good thing that happens to a good our intelligence like

[01:46:29] Jacob: Saying well it's genetics you know like if your mom had knee problems and your knee starts to kind of hurt a little bit you're like oh here it goes here wait there's the near the knee thing that my family has a personal trainer limb and say don't **** succumb to barley pains just because you think that's the way it is being in pain is a failed state you don't have to live like that so seek out ways to mitigate that you just don't have to be like that just because your parents needs her doesn't mean your f knees have to hurts stop putting hard labels on everything that's wrong with you like these all these things can change for the most part other than like obviously extreme cases but even in those things if you come to terms of that you'll find more inner peace and just like if you have back pain don't just except for your back

[01:47:09] Jacob: Pain dude like that **** sucks and you shouldn't really not accept that I'd see that's something that we accept the victim mentality allows you to accept what is happening to you like this has happened to me okay here's another thing that's happened to me you don't when you won't get out of that victim mentality when you watch it out of it you say here's the thing that happened to me all right well gotta work a little bit harder oh okay well the know this

[01:47:28] Spencer: Weight is on my shoulder or well this weights on my shoulder I gotta keep doing things though if you don't like a lesson like that's what I started looking at all my problems is like this is just a chance to be better than I am now right all right Manuel will touch more

[01:47:42] Outro: On that the old body-mind connection is definite some that I do want to touch on so on that wonderful note Spencer I appreciate you and listeners if you're listening wherever you're at unless you're in a car because you might just die stretch right now whatever you're doing drop and give me 50 but don't actually give me 50 give me 50 seconds of stretching just stretch your neck tuck your chin to your chest whether your toes would be your fingers something we don't do enough is stretch and I think that everybody should stretch so don't forget to breathe don't forget to breathe from your belly and stretch I love y'all Spencer loves y'all Junkyard Love Podcast out e