Episode 044 with Spencer Hicks - Operating Optimally Should Be Your Goal

[00:00:06] Intro: Hello and welcome to the junkyard hello hello welcome to the Junkyard Love podcast today's recommendation before said podcast is going to be another podcast that I like to listen to this podcast is from evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein he actually lives in Portland if that tickles your fancy I'm just gonna read the description of the Dark Horse podcast real quick it's just desirable I think you guys would enjoy it if you like my podcast you like more intelligent people talking about more intelligent things in the same manner on the Dark Horse podcast we will explore questions that matter with tools that work many episodes will be long-form discussions some guests will be well known others obscure but although all of them chosen because they have demonstrated unusual insight other episodes of The Dark Horse podcast will be solo missions in which Brett dives into issues alone using an evolutionarily using an evolutionary lens to reveal patterns in nature including human nature the state and future of civilization will be reoccurring theme so buckle up sounds great right check that out Bret Weinstein Dark Horse podcast also please like comment subscribe all those sort of things really do help me out just share if you enjoyed if it's good content if you if you benefit from

[00:01:43] Jacob: It just share and if you aren't drinking water are you out of your mind what are you doing you haven't drank water in a while has it been is there no water next to right now is it where's the nearest water cup to you when's the last time you took a drink of it come on listener drink some water alright let's roll here's the episode

[00:02:03] Spencer: Running a lot Spencer I feel very thin I did so when I was in Lake Shasta I like cuz it's like I know that we're

[00:02:12] Jacob: Gonna drink hot we did our true it's just like the time that I know you know let's prep it's prep for it so I woke up every morning and I ran like it was like

[00:02:21] Spencer: 30 flights and elevation in like four

[00:02:25] Jacob: Miles every morning you know I've liked it I'm saying that not to brag but just because it's like impressive that I'm continuously doing it and so it's just getting easier like it's not like a difficult or easy thing even it's just a thing that I do at this point with running already so it's just a **** cool place to be

[00:02:42] Spencer: We have been running a lot and then I've been eating I have a shake every day with lots of mushrooms in collagen or your suggestion and healthy greens and I think that these things are actually like thinning me out I think it's helping my digestion a ton my inflammation is down from some of the mushroom powders my cardiovascular is up

[00:03:04] Jacob: From some of the mushroom powders yeah it's so good if you try course ups yet to run a yes I think that's one of them that I'm taking is that cardiovascular that's yeah cordyceps help you utilize oxygen better and like you take it before you run you'll be noticed you'll have noticed Lee better endurance oh yeah I in and I and I so when I get gassed I can bring myself back with a slow heart rate in 30 seconds it's pretty **** sick feels good yeah but is there so the thing about mushroom powders I mean lions made does kind of give you like it's not a buzz at all but it's if you've if you're not familiar with like a head change you might feel like a little uptick with lion's mane

[00:03:45] Spencer: For sure or if I don't know maybe people feel like a big uptick but other than that the other ones you know for inflammation and in cordyceps and stuff

[00:03:53] Jacob: I don't really feel too different like

[00:03:56] Spencer: Cognitive wise so it's cool to feel you

[00:04:00] Jacob: Know like your body my body feels good it's a thing that we don't really have connection with like we don't really know when we're feeling inflamed because we're just our brain feels crappy too but when your body is loose and not inflamed your brains feeling norm it's nice to you or if you're just inflamed all the time you never know just it's just how you are I think that everybody is inflamed all the time come on over son yeah feel like that's not a plane a scratch any listener who doesn't really know that they're inflamed or they don't really know much my information give me like a one-minute information like why is it

[00:04:30] Spencer: Bad or what is it why does it happen yeah start explaining them five information what's up with it so usually inflammation good thing your

[00:04:37] Jacob: Body uses the healing process so like okay you got a bruise you get blood flow to the area it inflames it swells up and you get fresh nutrients to it but when you're chronically inflamed from like dietary choices it can happen in a lot of ways one of the really common ones is um well poor sleep it happens and a you

[00:04:57] Spencer: Need a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids so like I make it through something like fish and omega-6 is around like french fries like bad fats essentially and one of the when you get swayed too far to omega-6 is you become chronically inflamed I mean people will notice like um like my wrists will hurt your feet will hurt just kind of for no reason you love like a very puffy face puffy under eyes like you loaded yeah if you've ever become not inflamed and then become inflamed again you'll notice it isn't terrible my fingers well if you ever if you wear rings you definitely feel it in your hands a lot of times I did anyway yeah and then you'll begin to hold extracellular water so you want to hold water in the cells like in your muscles or in like just your cells in general and when you're holding it outside of it just causes all these things but this

[00:05:45] Jacob: Can cause I'm usually like brain

[00:05:49] Spencer: Inflammation it's where it's bad because it causes like a cognitive downtick I mean almost every single chronic disease is linked back to inflammation mm-hmm like Alzheimer's is an inflammatory disease like heart disease can be to some degree so you know as you explain this to me I find myself just like I was thinking like why the **** is this not the most known thing like why isn't it taught like why instead of watching like the Dems slam the Lib tardes why aren't

[00:06:15] Jacob: People who were watching on TV telling

[00:06:18] Spencer: Us how to reduce inflammation like why aren't we concentrating on **** like this like why don't people know the same thing with the coronavirus like nobody was saying here's how you get healthier though let's strengthen those immune systems guys we don't know **** about this thing but let's come together here's what I know about information we're gonna get all the top US doctors 150 of them in a room and they're gonna do a conference oh well not in room eight that probably like bad idea but because ooh meaning and zoom meetings but it's ridiculous that you know these things are actually pretty important like I don't think that I guess you know it's not like our parent my parents didn't know essentially and they still like don't know like they wouldn't know about this but I just think it should be normal taught instead we're taught the Kellogg's food guide pyramid yeah so now we got to take a step back and look at the incentive of media and government when it comes to health and as we have a 57 56 % of adults are obese did you say that's not even counting morbidly obese which is like a smaller segment of the population that's in that but we do not

[00:07:20] Jacob: It's just not a priority it doesn't make

[00:07:23] Spencer: Money like people Lobby our education you know the news is not a tool to make your life better it's a tool of control

[00:07:28] Jacob: Right so what like there's no if you're

[00:07:32] Spencer: Gonna fill 24-hours a news cycle like they don't give a **** if you're inflamed or not they just want you to pay attention right like they don't want you to feel better and they want you to feel how they feel exactly yeah so they're it's very unfortunate especially like us I mean I guess I am a health professional I mean that's sounds cooler than it is I'm a personal trainer but to see people just like everyone owns a body like you pilot a meat vehicle you do like why you should know how to operate optimally like you know like you know you need to put oil in your car and do all these things like basic maintenance like why don't people know how to do that for the body mm-hmm and it's hard to see but I mean it does make it really rewarding to tell people but the fact that like nobody's told them before they're 40 when I see them it feels really bad it's like you could have been living so much more optimally and felt so much better for so long if somebody would just told you this and this is readily available information that just nobody is peddling yeah this

[00:08:25] Spencer: Is dude it feels important to me like the older I get the more I look back at like man since I was however many it like there's my particular life I had to learn so much on my own just my whole life has been do-it-yourself so for me like even nutrition like learning about what's good for you and I feel like everybody is stuck with that everybody is like stuck with we'll just go to the internet and try to figure it out but then there's all these ads that are fed to us there's all this blah in our brain something I go on a lot about on like my Instagram story is the way we think

[00:08:55] Jacob: About our bodies and in health and weight and I don't like scales and in a unless you're someone who's actively trying to get specific goals on way it's like why do you care so much about weight and what about feeling good what about eating foods oh is this gonna make me fat so I can't fit into that swimsuit for the vacation no **** that **** that care about what's gonna make you feel good and if you feel good every day from what you're eating you know a symptom of that is you may be gonna lose some weight yeah but the way that we're kind of forced to look at everything like from a young age like you know like if you're forced to go to oh yeah I don't know I think the our

[00:09:38] Spencer: Perception of our own bodies is not in

[00:09:41] Jacob: Our own control and it feels important to me to at every step that I can since I've all this crap that I've learned and failed at and tried to learn and fail that to like get people to talk about it

[00:09:53] Spencer: And get people to like kind of learn like oh maybe I don't know that much about health or maybe I'm looking at it in a different code be looking at a different way or I don't know I don't see kids who are like 10 years old right now like they should be growing up by the time they're 15 and they should know everything that I know in a good way

[00:10:09] Jacob: Okay great awesome yeah I guess we gotta take a step back and figure out why it is the way it is you know there's no I

[00:10:16] Spencer: Mean you look at the medical industry there's no money and wellness money and

[00:10:21] Jacob: Symptoms and people like it's so hard to parse information because people are trying to sell you things like there's monetary gain involved so and like oh

[00:10:30] Spencer: I'll get on the internet figure it out well if you don't understand how biology works like your sniff test like you can't be skeptical because you don't have the means to be skeptical so you get marketed by something really flashy and you buy it and I mean there's already you I mean the biggest problem with that is you're already looking outward to try to get a cure

[00:10:49] Jacob: Even though it's probably a wellness or a lifestyle thing and then there also selling you something that isn't gonna do what you think it's gonna do so I would say and then again with the image thing and weight loss like if you're eating stuff that's gonna make you feel good you I would bet my life that you're gonna lose weight if you're overweight or um like in a above

[00:11:09] Spencer: Healthy body fat range because that would be a lot of fiber a lot greens like this stuff is really filling a not very calorie dense so I mean of course you're gonna lose weight and I do think that the perspective is unacceptable

[00:11:24] Jacob: Because we have such a vain society that

[00:11:27] Spencer: Culture and just like commercialism just

[00:11:30] Jacob: Tries to hey you're without I'm gonna sell you something that's going to make you whole here's this supplement rather than the inverse of that so I think it's just like a multitude of problems with American culture and nothing I've ever been taught was helpful really I had to figure it all out of my own which is people don't have time to do that doesn't seem like you give me new Orkut blood people are overworked so they're forced to eat like **** I mean they're not forced to but it's just what ends up happening and then no one's gonna help them figure it out and this is why I mean this might be shameless plug but I feel like everyone should have a trainer in a therapist really hire someone to figure out for you right

[00:12:09] Spencer: I was talking about this and talking about this wish hailey is I think that what's going to happen in game B and our next like whatever is next hopefully there's not a war in between I'm hoping that there's some sort of something that pops up in our world in the next you

[00:12:25] Jacob: Know 10 15 years that is before hospitals because I feel like in our heads we don't understand the hospitals in that big building is for like ham bleeding can you help me sew it up like that's you know it's for so much more than that surgeries and so much more of course but it's for fixing us when we're broken but like what about optimizing yourself so you don't get broken as easily like what why isn't it taught to people like well okay so just talk to people like there's like this general almost like yelling at an audience that's not listening if like you guys you got a stretch you gotta each agree so you got it like there's that but how do we like it like how do we actively create this thing that is the personal there's--it's a

[00:13:11] Spencer: Therapist and a personal trainer and like teach you how to take care of this **** meet vehicle so you don't hurt yourself because the food you eat hurts your brain dude it hurts when you're inflamed you don't think as clearly when you're feeling crappy and we're such societal creatures when you're not when we're not comfortable with our body we're not able to think about like what do I want to do what makes me happy what uh-ohhhhh like let me remember to get flowers for my wife because we're so self-conscious about being fat like it's these long we don't see things as like a over the course of a few years like what is the effects of bad food and not knowing how

[00:13:55] Jacob: To take care of your body and the importance of you know you know just

[00:13:59] Spencer: Having your breath from your belly

[00:14:03] Jacob: Like these sort of things you know I don't know I'm hoping that there's something that pops up and helps people not think they need to just go to hospitals and then you know like then my 600-pound life is a good example like you know that's that's **** so sad that those people didn't know or they didn't have help with their addictions or habits I mean obviously this is ending the ending world hunger of course anybody would want this but I don't know I'm hoping that there's more smart people that pop up and make something before hospitals well I think that uh right now you and I

[00:14:39] Spencer: Are both frog sitting in a bucket of cold water that's slowly boiling like there is friction rising and you do see like wellness is becoming a thing like in that the response to Instagram was in

[00:14:51] Jacob: Extreme it was extremely vain and you see a lot people trying to get very aesthetically fit but from what I've seen I mean I've been falling just a fitness injury for probably nine years since I've been exercising and wellness is becoming the pibil of that people want to move better people want to feel better and it seems like that it's just gonna happen like people already have a massive distress of the medical industry they don't like hospitals they don't like doctors they don't want to take a pill people have an mean look at vaccines people don't wanna take medication if you don't like it people don't like to take this one thing they don't trust this industry but if they can go somewhere else and find this wellness in this light and personal ubiquity and just like anything that is non-invasive its I mean I've seen it in clients even over the last two years like more and more people are like do you have any like herbal supplements that I could take like how does breath work like what do you do for anxiety and it's

[00:15:44] Spencer: It's been awesome and I really think we

[00:15:47] Jacob: Like you said humans are super bad at looking at things long-term and we didn't evolve to do that I mean you want to survive tomorrow not next year so I

[00:15:56] Spencer: Really think it's happening yeah and I have a lot of faith in just the path of humanity in general even though it looks so bleak now even with culture stuff like progressive movements and people having freedom over time has just slowly gotten better and better and like the image of marginalized people will get better and better and I think that once we start looking at obesity and not like it discussed more like hey this is a symptom of a problem they probably didn't control because they didn't have control of their lifestyle factors so you're gonna get even better mm-hmm I got a lot of faith man I think it's gonna be good I think people are like waking up to the idea of just like man I want to live my life and feel well right

[00:16:33] Jacob: I mean do you think that I think that I think that there's a huge search for meaning you know like you think that's anybody's life purpose right it's to find their meaning but I think that there's like this new there's this new sense of meaning there's this more like maybe we're more tuned to it or maybe we're like waking up to you know when you're feeling like crap all the time and then all of a sudden you want to like you know what Dee I'm so sick and feeling like crap I want to get healthy there's you know that right there is enough to spark all those people who are like I want to I want to learn about this they're going to have to relook at like the meaning like what does it mean like what do I want why am i eating healthier like you know and they're gonna be we're gonna be forced to kind of look at why we do the things we do the more that this wellness thing pops up and I think that's a good thing

[00:17:25] Jacob: Yeah I talk to clients all the time about like hey why do you want this like do you think that what are answers that you get well usually it's pushed back on like stricter diets and I always tell people hey if living this lifestyle to get to this point like this is the toll that you need to do to look like this and if it's gonna make you if you're it's gonna detract from your overall happiness and this obviously if they're like healthy people they just want to like have a better physique in their eyes that this is the toll to get here and if it's gonna bring you less happiness to do that then your goal is gonna bring you happiness then you shouldn't do it that we should just look for let's just optimize how you feel and it maybe it'll come then but I do think

[00:18:07] Spencer: Though the why of health is changing and people like and like anything like you see people get stopped at their surroundings like they try to I'm gonna change my life I want to feel better I'm gonna do this thing and then everyone around them is not and they slowly get tugged back in so I really think I would love to see a big pulse like we get a lot of people I mean just like how many movement starts like it's hard when

[00:18:29] Jacob: There's not a lot but when you have a lot of people behind you it's gonna get done yeah I think the you know things like that or what give me you know I try to keep my faith I try to keep my like okay you know what like every person that messages you or every person that does listen to the podcast like those you know those are people and that's their life like the numbers when they go up like they're not they're not a crazy amount but they're it's like those are people and I'm hoping that those are ripples and I hope that not that I'm like a know-it-all and like I'm saying the only right answer that my guests are the only people who are saying the truth and everything else is not it's never what I would try to suggest I'm just saying like the more

[00:19:05] Spencer: That we can see each other as like brother and sister in like a man like I didn't choose to be born like I don't know **** what's going on either but like here's what I've learned so far what have you learned like that's what I want to like every interaction can be like that every person you meet could be like this new just vessel of knowledge

[00:19:24] Jacob: In and I think that you know as where

[00:19:28] Spencer: The internet obviously evolves our brain man like it I think that a lot a lot more and more we're seeing people just bypass the whole like I'm I don't even know like we're going underground or going above the like **** like okay I get it catalogs you're trying to sell me this thing that's why

[00:19:50] Jacob: Okay no thanks what is really healthy

[00:19:53] Spencer: You type in you type in on reddit and then you have people across the world who are like hey here's what worked for me it seems like you have this sort of thing going on I think that when we when

[00:20:03] Jacob: We I don't know so do you think like the

[00:20:06] Spencer: People who are like bypassing like the why I'm trying to think of like what the word is like what are we bypassing here in this analogy it sounds like brands honestly brands like I mean I want to say like political like the wrong info that they give us the bias info like the people who read our history books that only give us the Americans bias side I mean yeah I understand what's it I don't know I mean we're just kind of the goal is to bypass like dogma and information that's been filtered through a viewpoint like if I'm really

[00:20:39] Jacob: Like if somebody's really I mean it's just like you said Kellogg's like no **** they're gonna try to sell you Kellogg's products and people are waking up with the fact that I think people are

[00:20:47] Spencer: Waking up to the idea that most people are just trying to sell you **** and not help you mmm-hmm and beaten like they're getting kind of tired of it so we're just not listening to like we're not falling for flashy branding anymore all this I hope people aren't and like hey like looking at this product objectively is like hey what is this helping me and then you go talk to other people and maybe see what they say about it and it's just not that one click buy mentality like people are trying to dig a little more right I think that's good questioning why we're doing the things that we're doing I think why is just a really important question to ask not with why not with why yes so right

[00:21:25] Jacob: Now let's talk about let's talk about where we're at in I mean the world for sure like Australia is just **** is Australia so I'm fire and the hotels got put in them we have you know some

[00:21:39] Spencer: Serious **** the last few days let's start with that you want to just fill in just if anybody's listening to this podcast at a different time you want to say what's going on so in Minneapolis I believe one to two

[00:21:52] Jacob: Days ago a black man died because he was positionally asphyxiated by the police and a and they go through training too unlike when you handcuff someone you don't want to lay them on their stomach for very long because they just can't die like that you want to roll them onto their side like they get trained for this like it very well knowledgeable on this thing not me but I'm saying police are there were

[00:22:18] Spencer: Multiple videos that are theirs you can

[00:22:21] Jacob: Glean any like content intent from it

[00:22:25] Spencer: Which is made it a very weird situation

[00:22:27] Jacob: But this police officer he was suspected of forging a what is it a check at target and he surrendered peacefully didn't resist and he died with the police officers knee on the back of his neck after asking saying hey I can't breathe help hey I can't breathe over four minutes like this we just went on and on and this is not the first time this **** has happened like that but this one no **** like this just happens every single day yeah it just does this was on film at this like very like we're in an unsettled position now I mean

[00:23:03] Spencer: They're there so what so they're riding

[00:23:05] Jacob: Yeah I was extremely egregious and you

[00:23:09] Spencer: Know every movement like black lives

[00:23:14] Jacob: Matter is extremely dismissed by a

[00:23:16] Spencer: Certain part of society like all the peaceful protests and gets dismissed like no you can't take a knee like why wouldn't you resolve this somewhere else like why oh why are you gonna do this so if you're being marginalized and you're not being heard peacefully you have one option you got you have to do this you have to at least show some kind of force and riots don't or riots don't

[00:23:38] Jacob: Really start out like looting and burning the police station but they rev up and when you have a group of people that has been just systemically shafted for so long like this is just what happens this is what happens and so they storm the police station and I love this like there's a big anarchist streak in me like I am real burn it down kind of the kind of guy so you see this is how it always once the people understand that if they band together there's very few of them and we are the reason they're there so they can't do anything about it so they band up they raid the police station take all the rag gear burn it down and they start looting and looting people are very upset about looting big corporations like Target like oh you shouldn't do that and I'm like if in a capitalist society you marginalize a lot of people and goods and services are put above human life one of the biggest signs of defiance is

[00:24:36] Spencer: To steal goods and services so like that would be why that's a tactic like that and like people are just tired of it you know I mean I'm tired of it like everyone that is seeing like african-americans minorities get marginalized in the country and we have very tense race relations right now because of how our government is running they're just very they've really scapegoat a lot of minorities it's just gotten worse and worse like white supremacy is up like they're sick of it like priests brutality has been a problem for a very long time and I'm frankly I'm really glad to see something like this happen even though there is collateral damage that is unacceptable like when you start to lose like some businesses like it's a mob so some businesses that are probably privately owned by good people like do take ahead but for the greater message I am I'm

[00:25:22] Jacob: Glad to see it happen like something like this needed to happen so what do you think I agree I think that where my brain goes is like years in the future of years in the future with optimism so

[00:25:38] Spencer: What would be we can't keep trying to

[00:25:41] Jacob: Squash these bugs as they happen like we

[00:25:44] Spencer: Need to like there needs to be an

[00:25:47] Jacob: Intelligence brought to the people who

[00:25:50] Spencer: Are unaware of their racism or their

[00:25:54] Jacob: There needs to be something that because they're you know there's echo chambers that keep this racism alive like so what in the future not just

[00:26:06] Spencer: Sucks because you just picture the big arm of the government with too much technology being a like snuff out who's who and what they're thinking but what like so how would we be in the future

[00:26:16] Jacob: How would we go about solving the root of the problem because to me that the riots and this in the like people being killed as a symptom of what like of racism being allowed of just massive systemic racism honestly and how do we get these **** smarter than like how do we who the people in charge yeah well or the or the cops who are

[00:26:40] Spencer: Apparently unknowingly racist like well

[00:26:44] Jacob: First we got to stop minimizing black lives matter you know all lives matter and blue lives matter yet yes okay

[00:26:51] Spencer: We all are egalitarians they understand that lives are important that's why they're protesting but they're extremely dismissive to the original cause because you're like hey like my if hypothetically like I'm an african-american like I see people of my

[00:27:07] Jacob: Like demographic being marginalized and

[00:27:11] Spencer: We make a movement called black lives

[00:27:14] Jacob: Matter and you see a bunch of like just like well-off other people say no all lives matter that's extremely dismissive and you're not actually looking at the problem and then blue lives matter is even more egregious cuz you're like you know what's not happening you know there's not a lot of young black men going and killing police officers all the time you know what is happening police officers are killing a lot of young African men it's the second leading cause of death and black men under 30 police violence so I mean and it's just like why would you do if you're an african-american you would be terrified getting pulled over you'd be terrified especially in these places dude I am and I'm not I hate I do not like the police they're not they're not public servants how they should be they're not trained well they give them way too much fire like why are we militarizing the police you know they serve like white why is that the thing yeah we they have they have like the you know at some point like so think about it shows you the weird position that we put police officers in so many ways and I'm not at all defending the

[00:28:23] Jacob: The police officer he points to everything but I'm just so I'm just thinking about the school playground situation during the kovat there's a mom and a daughter playing at the playground and a police officer has to get out of his car and yeah say hey guys you got to leave this part of me that gets it but there's part of me it's like his job could be utilized in such a different way than this they're there following orders right but

[00:28:49] Spencer: I don't know maybe there's a spirit of the law versus rule of the law kind of concept so it's like if you don't go 100 percent by the book you go by your gut to some degree so there's a there's a story it was in New York there was a dude selling hot dogs and a cop came up it's like hey man like

[00:29:12] Jacob: You like earns own for here like I'm like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do anything about it but I'm gonna come back later would you just plead please be gone so I don't have to in this man he had his hands behind his back because I mean he was like fallen on hard times and like was just gonna shoot this guy if he was gonna arrest him and he didn't because the guy handled it just like by the spirit of the wall like hey like this is just kind of unsafe but it's not really affecting anyone go ahead and leave so like cops really just have like this massive Authority and whenever you give people power they just they will use it inherently so if you just let

[00:29:52] Spencer: Cops like that like laws are in place to keep people safe to some degree right hypothetically if we had less by-the-book people and more spear of the law cops I think it would be a lot different but so then so look at situations like in our own town with Justin Derosier I mean he responded to a

[00:30:08] Jacob: Call and it was just a you know some sort of I don't know setup or something like in so he if he's walking in with the spirit of the law like I'm giving these people now if any was so it sucks because like one wrong player wrong one bad player is enough to like give that whole spirit that police have to work with of like hey come on guys get out of here like you know that I don't know **** we're just talking about like how to fight evil the kind of evil I will say this I being a police officer is a none M people position Oh God because indefinitely I would say probably most cops are good people everything most people are good ID well I think almost all people are good at their core they just either up and mislead some degree or not but like the problem

[00:30:59] Spencer: Like with the police stuff is it's a Brotherhood like they cover each other so when you get one really shitty racist guy out of 99 and that dude that

[00:31:08] Jacob: Dude **** up like they just cover it like that's why this riot happened because they didn't prosecute the dude who did it they just started firing people and are going to talk about it if they would have just like prosecuted this man and show that they were going to like abide by the law that they should be abiding by it like this man murdered this guy right on duty like unjustly he was trained not to that he did it anyways he's got a history of doing this so it's like it needs to come from inside police forces like they got us and it's not easy because like if you you're the one do that stands up you're just gonna get shunned out so it's like this um it's almost like a cult you know

[00:31:44] Spencer: Like you can't you can't speak out yeah I mean so I mean the human error in

[00:31:51] Jacob: This it just seems like we're gonna have so many more reasons to have some sort of like **** drone police force a society I'm making a jump but I mean I do think that I don't know next 10 years max I mean I see but robots can't buy by the spirit of law though right that's the thing is gonna be a problem it's even worse than this now because they just say you're breaking a law this is how I act so I would do not want to take

[00:32:17] Spencer: The human element out of police that's the last I don't barely want police to be the thing but I think that we're going to have so much **** to wear but we're gonna get to a point where people are in my Keanu probably is the best option or something and it's gonna be bad it's not it's not a good thing I just don't know I mean like what like what else can we do like how do we make our how do we make our police force better with actually being like

[00:32:44] Jacob: Intelligent and civilized and you know equal across the board because you know the police academy in you know Rhode Island is not the same in Minneapolis or whatever like I'm gonna at least I don't think I don't know exactly how it all works but I don't know it yeah it's gonna start with training really just better training I've seen video like I've really dive deep into this and I've seen the training videos that they show people like they hire third party or parties to train their cops just for some police forces and they're just really highly militarized that a lot and some police officers have like a like a fetishization of like Navy SEALs and wanting to be like an operator and being the guy and breaking in the door like you saw it a couple weeks ago they broke into this man's house not in police uniforms shot his girlfriend shot 20 times he shot back he's getting if he's going to federal prison because of it they broke in to the wrong house he's not a criminal mm-hmm so you know what an ABC would never do like the start is information when today when you hear about the seals break in the wrong house you don't like real military ops

[00:33:54] Jacob: They know for sure you know that this person's in there and this is the right house you got a job and you do it very well so your riling these people up you're given them too much firepower and you're telling them to go be an operator and they want they'd like to be that guy they've seen all the movies you know they've seen like what is it like American soldier a lone soldier like all the war propaganda that like really

[00:34:15] Spencer: Feta sighs like this overt force right

[00:34:19] Jacob: But they're not trained to and I do think a lot of it comes from that and then also this is just a side note the police are inherently there just to protect so if corporations own the government and government makes the laws and they hire the police all the laws are gonna be in favor of these people so you know who doesn't go to jail anyone on Wall Street anyone that commits like way more like into the stood forward to check a target for 200 bucks probably even if he did it might not have been forged you have like investment bankers inside trading for millions of dollars like they look there's just way worse crimes that go on but they're just white-collar right so but they don't you know please Hearn they're not blowing their doors open you know it's it just seems it's a way to oppress movements to some degree like it's just the watchdog's of the status quo it's like that's why so on this hypothetical

[00:35:13] Spencer: Alright so your work you're you want a business yeah you want a big business your workers decide that they're tired of you taking a of them in reaping more benefit from the

[00:35:25] Jacob: So they make their labor provides you give them materials their labor makes your stuff more valuable you sell it for a premium but you don't pay them a lot so they are like hey man we're trying to get we're tired again shafted we're gonna band together in a strike and they pick up the phone and they're like they call the police and I'm like hey you better come get these people in line so they just protect the status quo to something like this is just a watchdog of the establishment and that's why I inherently don't like police even without all the racial stuff it's okay so when you say that when you say that the way that like it's though I mean the whole world understands is we identify with our jobs and so like there's this like instant like this one wrong but like across America right now I bet you

[00:36:14] Spencer: In any police officer is maybe like 1%

[00:36:17] Jacob: Closer to like being a little more

[00:36:20] Spencer: Afraid of their life and themselves yeah I would be too if I saw something I don't envy cops at all not even a little bit no I know and it's such a **** difficult weird conversation to have I mean I just I try to think I try to say okay here's the situation and like **** what can we do about it not like I know everything about I don't know **** about it really I just think that it's it is a big deal I think that if we're like burning **** police stations and make

[00:36:44] Jacob: You know riots it's going it could uptick something big like you know we're

[00:36:50] Spencer: Not immune to war we're not immune to like an internal war there's already a culture war happening on Twitter it's just like there's a massive divide and how people feel yeah and I mean what's the boiling point because it seems like there's like something new like this every few months every few weeks there's something is it the media is this one person I think of this the media because like I said earlier I really think that people are inherently good and intelligent and people are just

[00:37:18] Jacob: Mislead with like so it's just every corporate media station is it just mega propaganda one side or the other so you are just it causes division and I don't know if you've like looking into a man named Noam Chomsky mm-hmm okay so Noam Chomsky's thing is um

[00:37:36] Spencer: It's uh something about consent but it's a term and it's basically so Americans political spectrum is like very close together but you owe manufacturing consent you make one side look extreme and the other look extreme but they're both really close together and you make people feel like there's no ideas outside of that so then you make people like if you look at what the two parties agree on it's almost everything it's like guns abortion and immigration and that's it that's the only three things that they can't end on and it's kind of just like this circus fake wrestling kind of thing and they just tell you're either on this side or this side but they agree on hundreds of things and you don't really get to choose so they pit everyone against each other and they don't get mad at any real problem you're not this then you're that yes so they give you a **** that's a good example with some chunks noam chomsky why my noam chomsky like they give you eight it's like a yes or no question when yes or no it's not the answer that you have like it's like what if you're not blue than you're red or whatever it's weird but we

[00:38:37] Spencer: Don't understand that we're looking at things through that lens so what's what's next so at so after in a world

[00:38:47] Jacob: Where which is right now ninety percent

[00:38:50] Spencer: Of the news that everybody sees is from six different **** companies I think it's less than that actually and that's the sad part okay so in a world where that's what's going on I mean the media whoever controls the media has the power that's just you control the narrative you control the gated institutional narrative as Eric Weinstein says and

[00:39:10] Jacob: What's after this like what's a where you know everybody realizes like hey this is **** up we can't do this of course there's like an up you know some uprising like this sucks riots whatever what's after that Spencer what's like how can we not **** everything up so bad um what's after that so once people realize I mean I think dude people already have mastered

[00:39:30] Spencer: I think we're there that's the thing is like but the problem is we're still playing teams we all have the same problems and they both pinpoint that and they give you a different solution and then they just force you to fight against each other we're already here there's already a massive distrust of government news all of it everyone's **** sick of it like we're at a boiling point 100% and all that needs to happen is we need to unify so the Hunger Games so a view have you seen those movies read the books yeah seen movies yeah so in the end where it's essentially like

[00:40:01] Jacob: Turn your weapons to the Capitol you know like that's essentially it's it so are we the best is region to the best is region three the best like that's what's been happening and we're at this point where we're like we're all looking at each other all the twelve factions or whatever or the twelve whatever and we're like hey guys it's not like we don't even want to fight each other we're talking about the same **** so this is gonna be a **** up sense but who is the it was the person we aim the arrow at I guess in the in the end here like who is the who is the behind-the-scenes shadow that's like **** who's the puppet master well it's **** ass I mean corporations on the government but the federal government these are our public servants that we vote in so if you can uncheck people I mean this is so demeaning to say that people get tricked into voting for people against their own like good intentions right but the news is so you have people have such poor information that they do I mean you

[00:40:59] Spencer: See a like a lot of sites like right-wing populism so like Trump he finds a bunch of problems like he's like hey like jobs are going all these things

[00:41:08] Jacob: Are happening you know but instead of we're outsourcing and doing all these things and we're allowing big corporations to exist in other countries it's Mexicans are taking your jobs so you found a real problem you did but now you force a narrative so like that and that's how like a lot of things take off

[00:41:26] Spencer: I don't think Donald Trump is the problem I think he's a symptom of a problem right when the thing about the forced narrative now is you could find the people who are going to believe it like if you look at I think that a lot of the world isn't you're currently aware of like theta like the Internet

[00:41:41] Jacob: The people Google and **** they know so much more about you than you know about yourself like they know so much about you so that when you're running on when you're running for president like a lot of the reason why Donald Trump won is it's a narrow statement but a lot of the reason is because they found the right people who are going to vote so they know it's like who believes in these things where they act like let's feed them as they watch YouTube as they're watching these things on their phone is they're on Facebook as they're scrolling through and we know that they're the type to vote for me and believe in these things based off of their data that we've gotten from all of their searches from all of the things that they bought at Target because we own the credit company credit card companies to you like all this **** that they have on these people they're able to directly feed to the right people - yeah so but so those

[00:42:30] Spencer: People are essentially they're kind of suckers like they're not suckers they're being made to look like suckers like they're their choices and what they're

[00:42:39] Jacob: Arguing about is like it's not that you're wrong or right it's like why are you **** arguing about that what do you look around you your reality is not that what are you talking about so there's a lot of this like being fed

[00:42:52] Spencer: Things by people who want you to believe

[00:42:57] Jacob: Or be mad about the things that they believe and are mad about yeah look at I mean look at the paradigm between CNN and Fox News you know they're both making you mad about something it's just the opposite thing but it's the same problem like that's the thing like you need to be mad at outsourcing definitely like all these movements just find a real problem like as Americans we all have really similar problems no matter where you live I mean it's different in the city to the rural areas yeah but like jobs people are scared about jobs

[00:43:24] Spencer: So if somebody comes up and says hey this these people that look like this are the problem it like it gives you

[00:43:32] Jacob: Agency to like and PARP analyze that you're like oh okay I have a summary I have a distinct enemy that's causing all my strife in these are causing the problems and they also trick you into caring about **** you don't care about - that you shouldn't care about like a lot of these problems like I mean abortion is definitely like that's an ethical choice and yeah that one's not people really do care about that it's a rough that's a hard one to figure out we haven't even have to humanity figured that one out no area and humans do really bad wherever because there's not a line but dude I have to close that window cuz it pressure washer try be crazy okay what we do about it we do about you matter I mean all this what we can do at this moment is we could take the Jordan Peterson approach and just concentrate on ourselves sort of thing so how do we how do people as individuals Mike and not you know I'm jumping from how do we solve this as humanity just because I think that it's good to talk about with each other and I think that I think that

[00:44:39] Spencer: We shouldn't be afraid as just any

[00:44:41] Jacob: Everyday people to discuss these things like man what do you think about it like just you know we get so caught in arguments and like you know putting ourselves in our own anger and our own beliefs in these situations that we miss out on being able to just talk about them as like okay hmm you know what wandering out wondering about them without ever fully like believing or settling in a position so encourage anybody to just think about like what's next for Humanity or like what would be better than what we're doing right now not just on an individual level but like what you know just wonder aloud with your friends and try to have more of an intellectual conversation but also on an individual level Spencer what could we do you know

[00:45:21] Spencer: The typical watch less news the typical like how can we how can we help each

[00:45:30] Jacob: Other and help ourselves on like an individual well with the situation thinking with politics is I think people start in the wrong spot you can't start with news because they will force you to have an opinion but if you start with political philosophy and do a lot of reading okay start with regular philosophy figure out how you feel about a Galit arianism how other people's lives matter how you feel about the world around you like what is reality like all these things that are really important and like building a worldview start there and then if you actually just go from Socrates all the way up you'll just start hitting political philosophy like you'll hit Hegel Marx um

[00:46:07] Spencer: Herbert yet Herbert Spencer which is a capitalist philosopher like you'll just hit him because philosophy just leads to politics because that's just the end road that's where you apply this philosophy so if you can develop a worldview before you get tricked by CNN you're way more immune to it because you're like hey I know how I feel about stuff and how I want the world around me to look so you are you have this you're sniff test it's amazing your skepticism is just way higher than it normally would be and it's just really helpful for your life anyways to get in philosophy it was one of the single most enjoyable and helpful things I've ever done right it is it's a it's one of my

[00:46:45] Jacob: Favorite things like I absolutely love it but it's a such a huge thing that like I stumbled in because I was looking for mental health and inevitably me to try and take care of yourself you same with you - yeah dude it's like you start learning about the world around you and you start to learn like where you fit in it and how you can fit in it and what we've done in the past I mean like learning about history is some freaking finished yet but sapiens you've all y'all know Harare but like

[00:47:14] Spencer: Learning about that like it changes my worldview I remember actually I watched a **** documentary the one with Will Smith it's on Netflix one strange rock

[00:47:22] Jacob: How did you watch that one I remember watching it and I was like also you know reading all this stuff but

[00:47:29] Spencer: It like that documentary changed like my outlook like seeing these like super high def photos of the earth and

[00:47:36] Jacob: Understanding how like diatoms work in

[00:47:40] Spencer: How like really getting the **** backbone behind like hey the trees give you oxygen without them you'll **** die like really understanding how everything is one planet and how it keeps us alive when it changes your perspective and it also it seems weird to think like watching a documentary about the earth and the planet is enough to change your political views but it is so I think I

[00:48:05] Jacob: Agree with Spencer get **** smart dude like learn don't just argue

[00:48:10] Spencer: With these narratives learn a better way

[00:48:13] Jacob: To see narratives yes so there I mean what do you all say go meta go Matt I'm stuck in it I can't you know deserve the third point perspective on viewpoints so you can't you can't just show up into politics and start watching CNN and they're just gonna tell you something that makes you vote for them that's it that's what's happening they wants you to vote for them they're gonna tell you a bunch of talking points that you can throw at people that they disagree with but you didn't so just going back to Chomsky your okay so if the pit of the political spectrum is like a hundred inches long

[00:48:41] Spencer: American politics is two inches like it's just real close together so you haven't looked at so many ideas that you might really like and I'm not saying I like that I engage in a lot of political discourse with people that don't agree with me just on reddit there's a subreddit called our slash political compass and it's a it's a graph so it's four quadrants so it's two axis and set of left-right and I talk to people that don't agree with me at all the time and it's one of the best ways to understand someone's worldview and even if you really disagree with them you at least learn how to deal with their ideas better so do not insulate yourself from other people's ideas and go find a bunch of people that agree with you and then hole up and go listen because in worst case scenario you figure out why those ideas are bad and how you can make your ideas better and I think in the midst of

[00:49:31] Jacob: This a lot of times you know something I always try to improve on is like how he did you get how like when you're discussing them because sometimes you will stumble across stuff where it's like oh I do feel strongly about this and I do actually know quite a bit you know like police brutality make me kind of mad I'm not gonna lie right but you also have the ability to just see

[00:49:50] Spencer: Like your time at reddit comments I see them digress so **** quickly it hurts me which is I mean it's hilarious because the smart people like jump away from the knuckleheads and by that I mean like right out people who are just like all of a sudden they had different views and they're like **** you bro your mom's so stupid it's like what yeah you just ad hominem attack yeah so I think also

[00:50:10] Jacob: You know I observe the way I

[00:50:15] Spencer: Learned by watching other people in and learning about them and then running that through the filter of me so I watch a lot of people like my dad for example he's very exuberant and loud and being what he talks about stories and he'll be telling about this story where he's just telling you that he walked into the

[00:50:35] Jacob: Grooming shop and there was a yellow Labrador you know he's telling you that story but it's this long and he's like you know he's just all big and he's he'll lean into your face and he's so he's telling that story and it's you know he's a storyteller and it's great but when we're passionate about things that maybe were disagreeing with someone we accidentally sometimes talk at people like it like mom I used my dad as example because he's exuberant he doesn't try to be but if he was talking passionately he'll start putting his finger in your face and stuff and he doesn't see that he's like bringing it

[00:51:09] Spencer: To a position where a majority of people seventy five percent of people sitting across the table from him are gonna be an uncomfortable they don't really have the combo anymore because it's like you're like yelling at me I wasn't trying to debate I was just kind of wondering what you thought about this and we can maybe compare our Diaz I'm not saying like be calm if you're not a calm person but just be aware of when you're having these conversations like every time the other person starts talking maybe let out a belly breath man like just like okay that relax my shoulders call my eyebrows like these are kind of overly obvious things but I think that a lot of us get so caught up in talking to each other instead of with each other we can we can form a third we

[00:51:46] Jacob: Can form a third like you know Metta

[00:51:49] Spencer: Look at the problem when you just combine and allow each other to both have like a calm input so not everyone that you talk to you is gonna be good faith you know sometimes they just want to **** on you and you gotta realize when that's happening but never going to in conversation thinking that the biggest important thing that I could say and this is not I am good at this but most people aren't it's really frustrating for me to talk to people I'm close to like family members about politics they're not listening to me

[00:52:16] Jacob: Mm-hmm but I'm give I'm giving a lot of

[00:52:19] Spencer: Effort to try to understand their point and they're not giving any effort to understand mine which if they're trying to win an argument they immediately win because you're like okay yes I see what you're saying but then they don't do that with you they don't even take your ideas into consideration it's very frustrating and no one learns so like you're never gonna learn anything you don't listen to people yeah and even if they've got ideas that you don't agree with listen to him anyways because they help temper your worldview let's talk about listening like let's break the glass listening like after a while you are unaware that you're looking at each other's eyes you're unaware it's like this conversation we start out in certain areas we like wander off and we glanced over but when you're listening how do we how do we explain

[00:53:05] Jacob: Listening because I think that I was

[00:53:08] Spencer: Want to blame social media in phones but I think that there's this weird for a long time I would think that I was listening even though with my right hand I'm like oh sending up that text and go but what I would be doing a lot of the

[00:53:20] Jacob: Times is I was listening but kind of

[00:53:24] Spencer: Selectively it wasn't on purpose but I think that our attention spans jump to jump farther outside of the conversations in it's like okay what are you jumping to are you trying to be right are you trying to contribute to the conversation as you're talking to someone looking them in the eyes hearing what they're saying what are you saying to yourself in your head are you in also in your body language are you going mMmmm are you shaking your head are you going okay are you acting

[00:53:54] Jacob: Accidentally kind of body language and contempt I'm just you know another strange thing to point out but I think that becoming aware of our body language

[00:54:04] Spencer: And how we're listening like what's actually happening when you're listening what is listening how do I do it how can I do it better because I think that little kind of ****

[00:54:14] Jacob: Is a lot of like what's going wrong with a lot of these conversations are escalating to arguments and debates and so all we want

[00:54:23] Spencer: To do because we don't want to step on each other's feelings or like feel uncomfortable we just **** meme fi everything and we short sentence everything and we just like say catchphrases to each other sometimes like I think that conversations are more important than that yeah and we're deflecting discomfort too I would say just get out there and start debating people start argue who don't agree with its debating and I'm not saying isn't like a rhetoric not to it to like be not to win but to just have a discussion because there is a flow of you say something I counter you say something I counter I say something you counter that it's just inherently part of talking about things that are more than like how was your day so like debating is fine it just you've got to

[00:55:02] Jacob: Be receptive and you can't just because

[00:55:05] Spencer: It's so hard to be really clear and all your ideas that you feel really good about and then have somebody not agree with you don't have any rebuttals and I think that's what really happens you say something you think is like this is part of your worldview you really agree with and someone's like no and they're like well and then they say X Y & Z and then you don't have a response to X Y & Z so you feel uncomfortable so then you mean if I so right there yeah that's

[00:55:26] Spencer: Like a **** error like we need to put like a 404 there's something wrong here and then you get that little pit and you start breathing quick and you can't think and then you just don't display one you don't display your ideas how you want it to and to the conversation devolves so I would say really well getting go read what logical fallacies are and go read through them and then try to pick out when people do them to you because when they make a lot of bad ones you can understand when they're being not good faith they're being bad faith actor and they're just trying to stifle you and then just get into philosophy I didn't know this was ants for the other thing but getting into philosophy really helps you parse through really floaty

[00:56:02] Jacob: Topics in general like a political

[00:56:04] Spencer: Theory religion like any of these things that are big no knows like having an objective epistemological view just it really helps weed through it because then you're sniff test is good like you can smell the **** if it's really coming you can tell when people are just trying to like defer you away from a topic right in go ahead and it's just it's not always about winning I mean really get it out of your head that you're trying to win you're trying to understand this person and most importantly if you make a good effort for them to understand them they might understand you and you maybe change their mind about something you're never gonna change about everything but if you attack them you're not gonna convince them of anything right you really just want them to be more sympathetic to you so when they see people like you they're not going to be so vile right yeah and

[00:56:48] Spencer: You can formulate new ideas together like it doesn't have to be like oh here's what I learned and I want to prove that it's right or wrong it's like what like what if they have what if they read the other half of what you did on that there's a podcast called stuff you should know how stuff works and those two they basically like us research their own areas of the internet like and they come back and they are like on the subject and they come back and they discuss it not like I'm more right than you they discuss like oh here's what I found about that oh that's crazy Chuck I didn't read about that part that is very incredible so you learn about a subject together and I think that's super available for everybody in their everyday I just want people to get better at conversations so we were talking earlier about conspiracy theory which we're

[00:57:30] Jacob: Gonna jump to after one more suggestion

[00:57:32] Spencer: Philosophize this on YouTube I think that's a good place to start did you ever go onto that channel that YouTube channel I've listened to everything one of those podcasts yeah dude it's a great

[00:57:43] Jacob: Place start because I think you know we learn about philosophy I think I hope that people's brains don't go well I need to go to the library and I need to check out Socrates and I mean you knew that too but also maybe listen to my podcast as well right yeah well but

[00:57:56] Spencer: I mean getting people lending your hand

[00:58:01] Jacob: Down and pulling them up off the ground getting them started like just don't overthink it go to YouTube and start to listen to these in the morning and they'll kind of make you think about the world a little bit differently and if you're in college like if you're going to school go take a philosophy class please do that it's been the most and so

[00:58:17] Spencer: Taking humanities classes I've taken every single humanities class at the Community College and it was the most enriching thing that I've ever done for me in academia it's changed me forever like the way I look at the world the way I think about things like it was very awesome and I highly recommend it I would love to do that I am a little concerned with my attention span sometimes I mean I love this subject though so I feel like I would probably be able to pay attention the teacher the professor that does most of them is the only like academic person that has ever

[00:58:47] Jacob: Actually affected my actual life yes

[00:58:50] Spencer: Like give her a million hugs she's one of my favorite people shot her name her name is Mary leach at LCC like if you can go take one her classes she is one of most excellent professors ever I really enjoyed her and all my close friends she's their favorite teacher too she's just awesome I highly recommend it oh yeah guys check out philosophy Spencer what do you think about conspiracy theories what is conspiracy theory when is it invented what do you know about MKULTRA dude oh

[00:59:17] Jacob: Okay actually a lot and that's a good

[00:59:20] Spencer: Way to start so conspiracy theories have evolved they used to be like as Bigfoot real blah stuff like that like oh they're aliens and then JFK assassination all stuff like that but I think well right-wing media does

[00:59:34] Jacob: Actually just pedal a lot of conspiracies like a massive amount like that side of the news media is just always on top of it our president does it's like a lot of people in authority positions do it and I think the reason conspiracies are getting so popular is because you know lefties have realized that we don't really have a lot of control in society and like there's no grand plan and everything is just chaos and if there's a lot of nihilism but people that will need more right this is obviously a massive generalization like one of the right-wing values is like personal liberty freedom solidarity like I want to be my own agent in the world and I want like I can do all these things like I have the power of my own life so that inherently draws you to these grand narratives that explain something that like would insinuate that there's a master plan there's something in control and I'm the one that figured it out so it gives you it gives you agency over the world of some degree because there's the thing that you can change there's like once we pull this linchpin it's the way and it's just because the world is

[01:00:38] Spencer: So hectic a narrative is very helpful JP talks about narratives all the time it's how we parse through a lot of things I mean I don't actually agree with a lot of philosophy but he we do use a narratives to describe a lot of things and these narratives are really convincing to people and it makes them feel like there's Liberty like there solidarity in the world and people get attached to them and then they attach their idea identity to them and then they find a bunch of people that believe that and now like oh I'm an activex or I'm a flat earther stuff like that but I really just think it's a it's just a symptom of that well so when we say conspiracy theories there's through in my head I think you know like CIA and aliens and in the Government and UFOs but I also think of you know like Epstein in like the **** Clintons killing everybody I think those are just beyond cancer does that just happens I mean you're like well so well but that's the thing is it's all being thrown into so conspiracy theory the terminology I think it was after JFK the assassination like it

[01:01:43] Spencer: Was essentially - there's some sort of proof somewhere that I can't pull out of my butt right now but there's some sort of something somewhere that says conspiracy theory was actually invented after I think the JFK assassination to actually diverge people away from Michael look away sort of it was this thing made up by the government the word and so it's kind of like a way to disperse crazy people like like so if like oh you're just a conspiracy theorist so it's a good way to brush off people and not make it a serious conversation but so how do we because what I think I'm saying is there's **** importance in like conspiracy theories because like there has to be a ground just like comedians have they're the ones who find the edge of like hey we're taking this thing too seriously we're gonna kill each other if we don't laugh about it because seriously theories are almost like hey this is like these people are really good at this corruption we need to help that or there's no there's an important

[01:02:39] Spencer: Spot for a conspiracy theory in the society it frustrates a colony because people so it's usually considered to start with something that might be drawn like 5% and then people paint a whole

[01:02:48] Jacob: Narrative behind it so like I don't understand why people have to dig so far to feel like the government is doing in scrupulous things like they'd tell you that they're doing them you know like they told us the war in Iran was unjustified like it they told us about MKULTRA like they're just telling us the **** they're doing like why do you even have to dig like you can just see it my favorite one that's recent is Bill Gates is going to use the vaccine to put microchips in you to track you but you know what people carry around all the time GPS is with microphones and they're called cell phones and you obligatory

[01:03:21] Spencer: Give away your rights to have one so like what seized so they just don't use a skeptical eye on all these things like they don't there's no reason that just they just take this narrative off and run with it but the problem is the government gives people no leeway and because they do a bunch of shitty things and of course that might be true so it's like I one thing I do like conspiracies though is they make people really skeptical of the government and which you need to be I'd rather have a population of conspiracy theory as being all loony rather than people that are really subservient do you see a world where when we talk about the government

[01:03:56] Jacob: They wear

[01:04:00] Spencer: We feel a sense of trust because now

[01:04:04] Jacob: It's like I'm gonna trust the government as much as I trust the **** media and it's like I don't know you know it's an uncomfortable feeling for people in a society to realize like

[01:04:13] Spencer: Oh there's not someone who's ultimately looking out for me they're looking out for like their plan for what gives them to most not only money in their pocket but I think I think it gets to a point with these people I think humans are so impressive and they can like train their brains to be such a **** machine that there's so many people who it's not like they're just trying to get more mimosas and more islands and more Ferraris I don't think it's that I think that it's like they're so like the roots are just so deep and like dug into like what they're doing that they're so detached from I don't know do you see a world

[01:04:52] Jacob: Where we trust the government say no and I hope we never do yeah never I hope that the you know what the governor should always be scared of their people we should always hold people in power accountable they serve us that's why they're there so when it comes to

[01:05:07] Spencer: When it comes to things like not specifically ubi but like that would be like the start of like this one war health government there's so **** dangerous like okay there's like separate I think that those things

[01:05:21] Jacob: Trip over each other so if we were

[01:05:24] Spencer: Trying to lean towards I think that we're at such a dissolving distrust for our governments like not only in America but like just everywhere like it's like Western democracy is just collapsing essentially right okay so how do is it okay the reason why I said one world government is because I think that the only thing that could come after this is like realize how far

[01:05:50] Jacob: Advanced we are with technology how connected we really are how we have to take action about you know the global

[01:05:57] Spencer: Warming like all these things it seems like what's coming is a we've all got it

[01:06:03] Jacob: Bound together but also with that let's all bound together there might be some sort of like one **** government or

[01:06:12] Spencer: You know I'm not trying to sound hippy and conspiracy theory what I say one-world government I'm literally just saying like more than just there's gonna be these nationalist views like it's okay Eric is still gonna exist but I think there's gonna be something that's kind of I mean that's kind of what I mean look at the banks they already are that but they're all **** corrupt no

[01:06:32] Jacob: But they already do just sit above everything like the banking system in general is very ubiquitous like this is

[01:06:41] Spencer: Why conspiracy theories run off because is there a hint of truth to like this probably cabal that kinda it does they don't robably don't sit in some shady dim lit room planning out the world but there definitely is people that have a lot of power that reaches through every major country and every major power that probably do we call some shots and do control money I mean because at the end of the day it is just like controlling the circulation of money what I will say is though like authoritarian governments like well we are authoritarian government China Russia they don't get along historically they want to impose their rule they want no infringement on it so we will never really have a unified government it will never happen because I mean the incentive of I mean

[01:07:18] Jacob: We're national like national pride like

[01:07:21] Spencer: We're Americans we're not gonna be we're

[01:07:24] Jacob: Not part of China we're not that you know the Russians are extremely nationalistic so is China like all these really hyper military like Iran like we're all other than the fact

[01:07:32] Spencer: That China technically is a communist regime like they are very totalitarian they've got a big police state same with Russia like we're very similar to them other than our economic platform like we're now getting along it's not gonna happen ever I really doubt it I mean if anything one will conquer the other but I don't think that ubi is gonna be the

[01:07:52] Jacob: Start of that I actually think I think that it's a good idea like why like why shouldn't people get them unlike if we're gonna bail out the cruise line industry that banks offshore and doesn't pay taxes why would you not give people money like if we're the richest nation to ever live ever in the history of forever and we spend 75 percent of our budget on military even like why can't people stop starving I would feel great you know like Wyatt why if your grandma gets cancer you have to file bankruptcy but we buy bombs and bail out the cruise line industry you know our priorities are a little misstep no because you know what curing grandma's cancers and make money and that's what it comes down to and that feels bad and that's why maybe burna

[01:08:38] Spencer: Downs not terrible the problem is that chaos ensues more chaos and every uprising has led an authoritarian government because they have the means to take over after you topple something because there's a lot of instability but then we also come to the problem of where if we do it really slowly you get one president in who's on the other side that doesn't want it who undoes the last eight years of progress so like where are we at like you can't do it slow like there's this liberal fantasy of like incremental change but it just goes away I don't see how we have just one **** like how do like you do that the president thing is just so dorky like well I mean I don't know what like again it's an it's an undesirable spot it's just like we're talking about police officers like I don't know the answer but I can see that like what we're doing doesn't seem to be working out mm-hmm now what a okay imagine this conversation we're having this conversation we're curious about the government blah but we were in China imagine like do something I want

[01:09:37] Spencer: To I want to point out because I don't think that people understand what's like also going on in China too or maybe I don't think that any of us do in America so actually so that's the thing yeah so what if every image we're seeing of China is completely like just **** made up by the media well I'm sure to some degree like go to art /sy know or see no it's a pro China sub and it's just very interesting to see the other point of view because I undead so we are having an economic war with them so everything all the footage that we see you all of it is just very forced through a narrative and I'm not I don't like authoritarianism like I'm a libertarian to some degree I'm just a libertarian left not right so I don't realize capitalism either but they're of an authoritarian police state and so are we so like yeah I mean I just point out

[01:10:27] Jacob: Because it's like so if it's true I'm just I think it's important to watch like what they're doing we may end up doing do you think yeah you I don't know if you've been on Twitter yet today No okay those pictures of the Hong Kong

[01:10:42] Spencer: Like press yeah like taking pictures of police officers and they're just allowing them and they arrested a CNN reporter this morning so we might sometimes be a little more authoritarian than China mm-hmm I just think that we

[01:10:55] Jacob: Get really conflated with America is

[01:10:58] Spencer: Like this very free ubiquitous nation

[01:11:01] Jacob: Where you do whatever you want I don't know man China's pretty interesting though like I would love to be a fly on

[01:11:14] Spencer: The wall and figure out just what uh

[01:11:17] Jacob: Like what really goes on there because

[01:11:21] Spencer: They did have the greatest growth and

[01:11:26] Jacob: Economic power and standard of living of any country to ever live in like 35 years I think it's unprecedented and I mean I've seen reports of like if you're I mean they oppress the **** on minorities but I mean so do we so like we redline districts and that they've got a really high standard of living in a lot of places they really take care of people that are native-born so what about so I've seen their like they have like a prism at camps that **** over there right now yeah that's not acceptable like that's I'm saying they like really oppressed before so that's the hard thing is it's like hard to know I mean and again it's not like it is hard for our brains when

[01:12:08] Spencer: Like even when we talk about things like okay I saw this like was that all of China is that like a bunch of bad actors like is that is that like the Joe Biden

[01:12:16] Jacob: Of China that is doing the you know bad **** like you know I mean like it's so hard for our brains to conceptualize because you know we can't juggle all this **** craziness we don't know what's actually true when we're reading it but it's it we want to watch it and we want to see like oh hey what's going on over there because we don't want that to happen to us because I think that you know look at

[01:12:39] Spencer: Like the technology that they're going

[01:12:43] Jacob: To start implementing over there is obviously going to trickle over to where were using we're using like facial recognition and stuff over there to charge people if they jaywalk sort of things like you know that could be our reality but they've just granted police access to facial recognition in Washington yeah really so dude it's happening like this is why you got to keep government in check like we the people are powerful we got a band together because writing this we cannot allow a police like a real police date to happen or we but the problem is were

[01:13:14] Spencer: Sold that we're Americans were free were sold this narrative that we are the freest country were the best country we have the most Liberty but we're actually getting police stated and we're killing minorities right but yes so the narrative they use is like hey they're taking away your freedoms and they're like well no I'm **** free they don't do that to me and then you're right it's a narrative that they feed you to spark you in certain ways yes and both sides do it and so like Trump passed some very unscrupulous authoritarian bills like and just for tracking like for gun rights like there were red flag laws he slipped in another bill so like this one thing like I think you people guns like I know gun violence is a massive problem and we should probably regulate them better not more but having an armed populace like i alt Amit Lee I'm the most scared of the government at the end of the day like so

[01:14:04] Jacob: But he even the right who's supposed to not gun snatch gun snatch more than Obama people just don't read the bills so like they're all taking away rights all the rights you think they're protecting there's this natural way and until we can like just come together and like say hey stop it and like we're unified people which the media won't allow us to do it's just gonna get worse and worse until we have like what Hong

[01:14:26] Spencer: Kong is right now well I think people just being aware trying to be aware try to realize like oh are my opinions just from the media like how much how much am I actually mad about this what are my actions here how can we

[01:14:40] Jacob: Communicate this better do I know do I

[01:14:44] Spencer: Just like a slot machine is designed to make you sit down longer and get the wins and spend more money and put more quarters in social media in the news is made to get you to keep on clicking man to keep on staying on there so the it's a runaway train it's a runaway train and get the **** off the tracks like look around and do your own research in come together yeah

[01:15:11] Jacob: And if you can build a philosophical base or an ideological base no one will ever trick you out of it you know you can change your ideas but you're never getting tricked by anyone because you know how you feel it's like learning how to learn yes it's so it's kind of like we were talking about with health I think that's another important thing with health is like okay yeah you're gonna follow this diet you're gonna do exactly what this thing wrote down and like okay but if you're not understanding it then you're gonna get to your goal in 12 months you're gonna get to your goal and you didn't look great at that for that vacation but then because you didn't learn how to take care of your body properly you didn't learn how if I'm not exactly following this regimen that this piece of paper says I if you don't know anything about your body you're just gonna fall right back on it so I think it's learning how to learn like use the tools learn how to really **** use the tools learn about new tools before you go into the in to start building you know and learn how to extrapolate data that's a big thing is it's very easy to mislead

[01:16:04] Jacob: People with data is if you don't if you just say 40% of this is this and people look into it like you can make anything say anything so you just have to be way more thorough with how they got these numbers like who's paying for these numbers to be made in any way in any form of study or data management like just figure out where it's coming from figure out where the biases and then maybe you can see hey they're trying to mislead me with this or hey this is good data what the problem is takes a lot of time it's very hard mm-hmm and that people like either of those things yeah I mean so that's the thing is like we live in such a society of headline reading I mean I'm so guilty of it myself like it's impossible to not like I will formulate I will in my head

[01:16:44] Spencer: Argue the opinion that I formed just from the art the headline of article so I'll make this is messed up but then I won't like it and I'll think that in my head without reading through it some people just are posting them whatever but I think learning

[01:17:03] Jacob: Mmm I pigeon-holed myself I would uh yeah I would say well 70 to 80% of

[01:17:10] Spencer: People only read the headline mmm oh

[01:17:12] Jacob: Okay I remember dad so think about

[01:17:15] Spencer: Percentages anyway so think about when we're looking at like we took this poll well who were the people and where were they and where did they live and what there's like all these different things like oh we took a poll and 16 percent

[01:17:31] Jacob: Of people said that they prefer this well they only interviewed a hundred people you know I mean in will for and then we'll put that up against some like peer-reviewed thing that reviewed a hundred thousand people or something the things that we look at percentages in stats so I think you know Steven Pinker is a good a good example this I haven't actually read his books but have you heard of Steven Pinker I've heard the name essentially he's just like if you look at percentages like oh we're actually if you're looking at the optoma like we're actually better than we've ever been the way of living is blah or this percentage higher in these

[01:18:05] Spencer: Areas it's basically giving you two things to look at to compare but life is not just this or that life is so much gray area yeah maybe were the best in economy but like what about **** happiness what about people killing themselves like what's going on with that I think that we compare and we look at pigeonholes or just double use that word for no reason we look at what the media tells us to look at we don't really compartmentalize and sit back and say like what is this data like what does this mean this percentages what does that have to do with the subject that I'm pursuing what does this have to do with the why of humanity I think yeah I guess just

[01:18:46] Jacob: Running it back through the lens of

[01:18:51] Spencer: Numbers not being afraid exactly what I started with the economy's a good example of being misled because having a really on paper strong economy doesn't actually translate to how people's lives are and you could see this deck from one picture on CNN three weeks ago Dow Jones up 700 M unemployment rate up to 30%

[01:19:10] Jacob: Same screen it's like well okay so all these numbers like the stock market isn't only good indicator of how wealthy people are doing and when you look at Oh our stomachs are so high it's our the Dow Jones is at 28,000 or like a record high but you look at it we've had wage stagnation since 1970 and you've got 30% less buying power than your father would with the same job 30 years ago okay it's our people really doing better no they're not they're not even if the unemployment rate is low like that kid that doesn't account for people that are underemployed for education either so it's like there's just like a massive amount of factors that go into this one number that they're selling you like there's a lot of externalities that go along with things and if you can sum up a whole massive economic system and one single number well you can and you

[01:19:56] Spencer: Shouldn't believe that's the truth yeah it's this smoking gun like this is such a typical sentence a statement but that smoking gun thing is like well no the percentage of this and the Dow is this how is that not better clearly so-and-so has done the best for our Bubba and you're like somebody's doing Waldo somebody is sure but sure like what are you talking about here like what do you win why are you pigeon holing this comparison thank you we just we need to start with why man

[01:20:23] Jacob: When you start with why and we ask ourselves all these questions well and you're gonna see a lot of bad data coming out really soon because as the economy starts coming back online it's gonna be like GDP growth was 25 percent this month well yeah no **** we didn't do any GDP for three months so if like if you have a hundred percent of something you take fifty percent away your need a hundred percent of that new thing to get back to 100 percent that makes sense because you're gonna need double what you had so it's like numbered percentages get really conflated when you drop them down and bring them back up so like let's say we drop 99 percent

[01:20:59] Spencer: And then we gain a hundred percent it's at two it's not at a hundred yeah so people you can be really misconstrued by just percentages in general and sometimes you got to look at raw numbers

[01:21:12] Jacob: Yeah I mean either way but that's inherent that's pretty misleading though that example definitely is because it's like 100 percent that's good can't be higher than that right yeah they simplify our shift for us like it's not a good thing so I guess just don't be don't be a sucker yeah don't it'll be a day really hard though because you can't know everything about anything or you can't know everything about everything and I'm definitely a sucker sometimes you know yeah like my girlfriend is an aesthetician and I don't know anything about skin like she could fool me about anything doesn't matter anything involves skin I'm a sucker you got me I'll refer to somebody else that knows more to me but that's a good thing though so if you have skin problems so you have skin issues or just questions thinking back hey you tell me about makeup can you tell you about this it's actually so nice because I don't have to deal with it you know like having it I like that to have experts around you

[01:22:03] Spencer: About stuff that isn't super interesting to you but you can just refer to them with your trust and I wish the news was like that yeah that's B's it's so nice it's like you just you already know this tell me please yeah I texted my I have a group message full of friends and there's probably like five of our female friends and there I was like all

[01:22:22] Jacob: Right girls my hair looks ridiculous how

[01:22:25] Spencer: Do I make it not look like total **** but I do also don't want to do anything like I was hoping for something to put in it right after I get on the shower and then I don't touch it and they gave me that they told me exactly what to get and it's all the Plex I don't know anything about it but I put it in my hair and it looks nice

[01:22:39] Jacob: Yeah so when you go into experts dude you can have a friend circle full of experts so just learn your **** and then you can combine your **** with other people **** and that's a folk community like a couple of my friends just know a lot about computers and I was like maybe I'll learn about it but now I'll just ask them to do it no just tell them about fitness and then we win everyone wins yes that's great yeah that's it's so

[01:23:05] Spencer: Important um we're getting up here in time you got a head out here pretty soon let's send it off with Neuralink have

[01:23:12] Jacob: You have you watched the Elon Musk episode with Joe Rogan do you know about

[01:23:18] Spencer: Neuralink within a year owner Oh link yeah Neuralink yessir what's your

[01:23:26] Jacob: Thoughts on this like did you see he's like this is gonna you know it's what do

[01:23:29] Spencer: I think about a Neuralink oh I think well there's new like he named off all the **** that it's gonna do it's within a year it's gonna be done so what I think is well this is I mean just riding I repeat like tabletop RPGs like D&D but sci-fi versions you get in a lot of sci-fi tropes like in a capital society some people are gonna be able to afford the brain chips that makes them think better and then they can make more money and now you have a bigger wealth gap that's frightening the gap you get somebody that and then they can communicate essentially telepathically so now you've got a race of people a new

[01:24:01] Jacob: Race that can communicate without talking perfectly like you know how words fail you know like when I drove to describe something and you don't know what I'm talking about all the way I can just send you exactly what I'm seeing yep so now they can communicate better silently and make more money because they can think better and make better rational decisions because they have a computer in their brain while poor people don't get to do that so I honestly wouldn't I don't want it to happen until you can make ubiquitous until everyone can have and until everyone can do it if they want because it's gonna cost such a massive divide and we already have such a big class divide but unlike sci-fi nerd' do I think it's the coolest **** ever yeah that is the coolest thing that I've ever heard so I think I have this like this

[01:24:41] Spencer: Intuition that Elon Musk is not evil like there's a lot of people who are just like he's a Bond villain he's just a narcissist but I love him yeah I think that he's awesome I don't know I think that I think that he is going to try his

[01:24:53] Jacob: Best to make sure that it gets to the people who like II like II if he can get it to poor people in different third-world countries I think he just might you know I have a more a less optimist if you on Elon Musk I think a lot of people did yeah well no but not bleh is bad so at the end of the day he is a billionaire and he's accrued a lot of money and he that's what he does he makes money and he's trying to do the minimalist thing no he's like planning on like selling his house and **** I will say I really like what he's doing for technology Big Ups to you were making everyone's life better you're trying to save the planet but he does have some very catastrophic opinions on other things that he's not an expert in but since he is big smarty pants boy he just goes and has all these opinions and he's an authoritative force but it's like hey if like I was a doctor like would you talk to me about like herbology or like plants see this is where I don't know because there's so many people who are I start to think

[01:25:46] Spencer: That some people are just good thinkers

[01:25:49] Jacob: Like I think we should have people who are really smart they've shown them to be smart in they're good at problem-solving without extreme bias I don't know there's parts of me that think of that like just because you don't have the degree doesn't mean that your opinion isn't as good doesn't mean that like the way that you see the thing isn't as important I don't know no but yeah I agree

[01:26:15] Spencer: I mean I don't think you need a college degree to have good opinions you just need to have good rational skills and epistemological skills and you need to

[01:26:23] Jacob: Be able to reason through things so what so what I think I was hinting at is like I think that his opinion is actually like important like III I value his opinion because he's such a smart **** um you may have less experience I guess but it's hard to know but if you look

[01:26:38] Spencer: At somebody who's basically socially inept because he's so smart and you tell him to have a bunch of ideas on social issues they might not be the best through that's true yeah and that's kind of what I was hitting that like a lot of is like mmm social things are probably not great and he also it just is a narcissist that debt definitely and that's fine he does the world a great service and you can be narcissist there's a lot of them and they do a lot of worse things that he does but that doesn't always lead to admitting your

[01:27:05] Jacob: Own faults when you're wrong about social things because your image of you is a big smartypants boy genius and my opinion is correct even though maybe you have not taken the time to look at this idea very much hmm well Spencer it's been great I do want to say one thing though after like all the catastrophic talk about how the world is going so historically I have a lot of faith in humanity you know things have just always gotten better even though if we're in like a little setback period over the course of time effort like more

[01:27:35] Spencer: People have had more freedom in more rights over the thousands of years that humans have been alive and I don't think that's gonna stop I think that Goods gonna win and I think that like all this bigotry and all these bad things that are happening or slowly just gonna it's gonna take a lot of work and a lot of pushback but people are willing to do that and it's just going to get better and better excellent I agree man I think so too I'm optimistic about the future I'm curious it's gonna be

[01:28:00] Jacob: Crazy I hope that we don't have open there's not a bunch more bad before good sort of thing but I'm optimistic about future of humanity

[01:28:11] Spencer: It only gets better all right

[01:28:14] Outro: Listener drink some water and if you have a stretch today man what it like what's wrong with you what are you doing you **** together in stretch a little bit he's up bye-bye