089 with Social Impact Investor and Organizational Strategist Daniel T. Matalon - The World Game

[00:00:00] Intro: Knowledge is power

[00:00:00] Daniel: I was in uh last month i was in i'm from Uh washington state originally and last Month i was i was over there uh working Doing a little traveling work but um Yeah i'm in austin now i've been Here for about a year and a half Um you know mostly been inside during Covet and everything which is actually How i ended up here i was coming to Write a book and i was gonna be here three or four Months and then covet happened a few Other things and i'm actually about to Get back on the road in september October so Yeah so you're going to be traveling is Austin going to be your main locale Though um you know uh Christie Thompson Is here uh she is kind of the Uh We like to refer to her as a leader That we use a term called first follower Which is not really meant in the way Most people think of that there's this Wonderful video on our resources page Called the dancing guy And it's all about how the person who Comes to whoever had the idea and goes that's A good idea That's the real leader

[00:01:21] Jacob: Yeah almost like giving them permission Hey that thing you're doing is okay That's good yeah And let's other people know it's also Safe too Yeah is it from Have you seen that video Of there's a music festival of a guy Dancing by himself Okay yeah okay that's the dancing Guy video and i don't know if you know the origin of it's the most popular

[00:01:40] Daniel: Piece on our resources page which has like 30 40 references including Buckminster Fuller and Hans Rosling who is one of The greatest statistician storytellers Ever to live who basically says we need To really relax About overpopulation fears and all of That sort of stuff and between all those Elements they love the dancing guy more Than anything else That's funny that's how it goes right You don't get to choose what proliferates you just got to follow what Does you know put it out there you know I think that's a good theme of Anything we want to really talk about i Was on a podcast recently and when i Shared some of our point of view You know he said i'm a quaker and i'm a Buddhist and everything you're saying is Stuff we've been saying for thousands of Years so you know how are you adding Anything new to the conversation which is a Really good question and i said well First of all you know we're framing it In maybe more of a five or six year olds Version You know and as einstein said loosely Translated if you can't explain it to a Six-year-old you don't quite have it you Know And i think that uh I think we need a thousand flowers

[00:02:48] Daniel: On the topic of how do we really Overcome War it's not just enough to call it Conflict like the way people converse is Very warlike And if you as a generality it's you know There's exceptions of course right but As a generality humanity Comes from seventy thousand years of war We use language In order to make life happen Never mind change Uh and if our conversation is an Inheritance Of 70 000 years of war we can't sort of Really expect that we just wake up in One generation the 21st century and put An end to that without a lot of conscious attention To solving that problem

[00:03:31] Jacob: Right but building that conscious Attention is it's likely a lot of what Your work is right Accidentally to be to be really frank But yes yeah Wow okay well let's um let's get Into it i was thinking uh if you don't Mind daniel I was just going to read Your one page just the first couple Little paragraphs and then we could jump Off into it after there just a little Intro cool um so welcome daniel i appreciate you Appreciate you taking time out of your day to do this So daniel is the founder of is there Enough a provocative new conversation About the intersection of survival Economics and social justice He is also the co-founder of impact Launch pad a uk-based venture studio for Social impact incubation and development Working from a book a conversation and a Unique social research experiment that Has taken him to 22 countries Mr. Matalon is asserting the humanity's Biggest existential threat is not Climate change tribalism or inequality But our inability to make agreement with Each other at the level we require to Address our challenges Yeah i totally agree um so what What is your What's your elevator pitch of your work So if someone's like hey what do You do what is usually your Sentence back

[00:04:48] Daniel: I'm working on the World Game turning it Into a business model you ever heard of That and the person usually hasn't and i say Well it was invented by this guy Buckminster Fuller who you'd know by the Geodesic dome but Also had 50 predictions for the year 2049 of those 50 came true certainly In a list of the top 100 minds of all Time And he proposed that the World Game Was how to make the world work for 100 Of humanity And he chose language really carefully So he added some other words to it like With conditions Like Uh In the shortest time possible through Spontaneous collaboration without uh Ecological offense or disadvantage to Everyone or his conditions We stumbled onto posing a question Question is really simple is there Enough just three little words And when we throw that stone in the Water into conversation and has other Sort of applications that are more Specific than the generality of that Question it deliberates a conversation And i'm reporting to you from thousands Of hours and 22 countries looking at This that takes people down a path of Reevaluating What enough is Not uh Abundance which i was hoping people Would wake up to abundance for 25 or 30 Years lecturing among why there really

[00:06:16] Daniel: Is abundance Uh and how that's actually the norm of The universe and scarcity is something i Would propose that we Manufacture that's my point of view on The question of is there enough But the deliberation of what enough is Surprise to me turns out to be highly Personal as well as global at the same Time i have no idea how it does that Um but it but it was sort of the idea In the World Game about mr fuller Talking about 100 of humanity is how can One individual think about 100 of Humanity it seems impossible And yet the posing of the question of is There enough Has generated a responsibility in people That the answer to that question Is their responsibility it's their Choice right and as some people Reinterpret it I'm reporting to you now some people Reinterpret the question a lot of Different ways and one of them is well How do i make the world work for me Comes out of this question is there Enough because it's not just 100 of Humanity but sometimes a hundred percent Of my world This can be true in a relationship it Can be true in business it can be true In a nation So i guess the only thing you could say

[00:07:26] Daniel: That we're adding to the picture Is the posing of this question as a Prelude to a new deliberation about Agreement Because if we want to make the world Work What does that mean work for a hundred Percent 100 is like towards a more Perfect union right it's a it's a Calculus right it's an ideal but if we Talk about the work part We define that And other people would define the answer Differently so i want to be clear but we Define That making wealth more available for more People in less time is a trajectory we Can absolutely measure So my professional work is devoted to That And the question of is there enough just Sort of came out of Working on that strategy and talking to People and it just bounced out of the Space and became a phenomenon that took Me to 22 countries so far

[00:08:22] Jacob: Yeah so in your travels when you go To these different countries and when you do pose the question What do you find like what's what's The response across the table what Is typically kind of the first thing that comes into people's minds what do we think about When you ask that question If you don't mind i'd rather tell you The most surprising response that's

[00:08:40] Daniel: Consistent in 22 countries which people Come back with Am i enough Followed closely by Are we enough Very big surprise to me in fact you know I have a book coming out And i would ideally not want it to be Thought of in a self-help section i mean We categorize that's what consciousness Is largely right I don't mind that people use it though For personal Transformation Uh i'm impressed by it because it's An it's an it's a surprising thing So i have sort of more fun with that Part about it because i know what my Intentionality that i think is so Important and then there's this Surprising thing come out of it but We have found that people engaging in This conversation can make their own World work better not just the world Work better It is a it does have a personal Development transformation Think about it i mean if you're able To make more agreement tomorrow than you Made today Everything you're working on becomes Better right

[00:09:41] Jacob: Right yeah So it is sort of so it's an Inadvertent you didn't intentionally Write a self-help book but it is kind of A an automatic turning towards the self Like um So has this whole thing kind of been a Personal uh sovereignty sort of thing Like uh the essence of this is you know We have to learn how to love ourselves Or feel that ourselves is enough in Order for it to Expand out into being enough for Everyone yeah i mean People can watch this visually see me Bristle the list a little bit as you Came to it so you see my Apparent discomfort Uh with the concept of personal Development as that aspect It's simply that I think clarity comes out of the Question and when we have clarity we can Begin to make better choices it's as Simple as that My partner in our business side of what We're doing our for-profit social impact Side says people think that we're idealists But actually we're clarifiest Is that we that's how we think of it Inside the building so i I'm not sure if that answers your Question except to simply say that People use this deliberation to reassess Their values it's kind of like maslow's Hierarchy without having to talk about

[00:10:59] Jacob: Maslow which is why i can have a Conversation with a group of Kindergartners about this which i was Once challenged to do And all i did with them Strangely enough All i did was have a conversation with Them about how they got their breakfast That morning And every story was about collaboration Interesting so is that what you're Pointing to is this This expanded view of collaboration um What how is the conversation with the Kindergarteners an example of the wider View of what you guys are teaching And showing to the world The purpose of this initially was to

[00:11:41] Daniel: Make the world work in an aggregate way But of course a five-year-old's not Thinking about that they're looking After their own needs right And if five-year-olds can look after Their own needs Through this human superpower that we think we have That makes us more human than human A step towards compassion before telling Everybody they have to be more compassionate than they are You understand that distinction

[00:12:06] Jacob: Right creating some cognitive empathy before We demand and there is a little bit of Culture that demands A certain level of emotional empathy That i'm not sure we're ready to step Into fully in 100 But we can understand each other we can Tolerate each other and if a Five-year-old can understand that It's not How pretty you are how fast you run or What car your daddy drives It's how you can be valuable to Everybody around you Like that's a selfish thing if you could Turn that into a selfish thing you see Greed goes away It becomes unnecessary but mr fuller Used to say that If you really want to deal with a bad System don't fight the existing reality Just create a new one And conversation creates reality not Always of course that's why People have oh there's all talk and no Action well without talk there's Definitely no action That's new right so the question is what Kind of talk will have the tendency to Produce the most what we would call Action obviously right action Philosophically Um but it can be used for any action i Mean anybody listen to my voice knows That an agreement was made To create a slave triangle that funded The world right that was an agreement

[00:13:21] Daniel: Too there's some very bad agreements in The power of agreement right agreement Is power But can a five-year-old make an agreement with another five-year-old Yeah they just created some power they'd have To take it from each other Right and i'll just say like power is Also mystified you talk about Demystifying things or we could have a Nice conversation about what power Really is Because I would love to dive into that yeah what Do you mean what What i actually have i have not done a Lot publicly for many years Uh but somebody just unearthed a 1996 or 1997 interview with me about this topic And uh Power's just basically the simple Ability to get things done my dog Does not have the power to lift a cup But because of his relationship with me If i need to move his ball for him You know he now has the power To move the ball right Um so power can be created Doesn't have to be taken it can be taken We can fight about it but at the end of The day when we're finished fighting We're gonna have a treaty usually set by The winner which is where your inclusion Problem is in history right but it's the Agreement that create the post-war is

[00:14:40] Jacob: Where the economic boom is let's say This is throughout history not just After world war ii Right so the treaty is the engine that creates The results the same thing happening in The united states right You're getting to the place where people Going wait actually we do need some Institutions you know what i mean let's Do some deconstruction but also like Bucky would say you don't take down the System you create a new one right just a Waste of time this is the thing that i Think even people Who have created identity with Themselves around war inadvertently Right to be partisan you know before Values is sort of what that is right to Be about my common identity with each Other rather than what our common Identity is about is a very war like Prep um you know precedent What we are Uh What we're talking about is the ability

[00:15:36] Daniel: To Make power not take power you can use Fire to burn down your house or heat your House you can use a knife to you know Cut yourself free from bondage and you Can kill somebody it's the tool of how And why it's used and for what purpose

[00:15:52] Jacob: That and if you think about it if you

[00:15:54] Daniel: Ask the question is there enough hash It's a hashtag is there enough we put It as three words together a hashtag is There enough to establish this Conversation and apply that lens to Power is there enough power Oh you want to see some emotions fly in a Clubhouse room Just talking about it so it is this very General Neuroplastic Uh um vagueness designed to get people to you Know sort of have this reassessment with Themselves about their values but you Now apply it as a lens Uh jacob to a topic like is there enough Water which our company Impact Launchpad has Done about 80 hours of research on new Technology to produce Mine uh the atmosphere for water not have to Take it from the ground it's very viable Technology Um so when we have a conversation called Is enough water we'll bring some experts Together and talk about that when we talk about is there enough justice we Bring experts together to talk about is There enough justice So it has this generality of stirring up The pot for people to begin to recognize That they have more power than they Realize they do they have more ability To get things done than they give Themselves uh credit for when they're

[00:17:07] Daniel: Talking about all the people in power That are doing things to them they're Not spending any conscious time thinking About what do i have the power to do Today and what can i have the power to Do tomorrow and the power to do tomorrow Is only based on how much agreement i Can create i could force somebody into Agreement yes But it's very hard like it's very time Consuming it you know it just doesn't Make sense this is the real thing that i Think can be a breakthrough is not just Appealing to people on why they should Give up arms in a way of being you know Great for humanity because only certain Amount of people think that way but if We can make it in their personal Selfish interest To make as much agreement as they can in Their life can you imagine what ripple Effect that creates So i'll just land the plane so to speak on This point to rally it to the personal Individual in the psychology of it The first chapter of the book that we Have coming out in 23 and i say we had Something of a community project in that Sense but i'll have my name on it

[00:18:06] Daniel: Um as an author is uh it had an orphan Chapter i didn't know where it went and it Turned out it was the kickoff of the Book and it was basically about Uh how we perceive our identity I'm an amateur i'm not an academic i'm Not a professional so i'll say things in Very simplistic terms so it does a Disservice to psychology For me to simplify identity in this way But for this purpose it makes sense As i'm saying that basically we are our History and we are our choices Joe dispenza would say we are our Choices period He believes in that so much i just found Out recently i feel we carry our history And we make our choices and if we don't Recognize and embrace that history that Got us here I think that struggle is very Difficult I can embrace my history And also make choices and over time Those choices become new history And that's who we are so That's really what the this conversation Sets in motion Our goal is for people to have this Conversation themselves which is what We're teaching people to do

[00:19:20] Jacob: Yeah i really like that um I was thinking a lot about what you said About identity do you think that um Would we all have to kind of be on the Same page of what our history is i mean I kind of get down these rabbit holes of Um you know what are the pyramids Actually and uh You know where psychedelics uh to the Birth of our consciousness and all these Sort of things like They make me rethink what i was taught In school i'm like i don't i don't really know Like if we have a unified version of How our history really goes i mean of Course we do our best to put together The things that we have but a lot of It is kind of blocked off by You know um Just different people with different Interests and It benefits certain groups to not have Certain truths or certain versions of Stories you know out to the rest of the world do You think that we would all have to be Kind of on the same page of our history And kind of what we are as humans even Because i'm not sure that we all even i Mean a lot of people don't really think

[00:20:21] Jacob: About the fact that we come out of the Earth that we really are part of this Evolutionary You know thing happening So do you think that um I don't know I just i guess i just think about the Fact that i'm not sure that we all agree On or we already think about that much Our origins of what we are and i think That is probably an important piece of The puzzle right It is the name the name of the book That we're putting out is called the First agreement people ask us what's the First agreement and i say to have one Let's start with one Yeah okay Um the answer your question about do we all Have to be on the same page to have one Agreement no we don't Um Is the history Vastly important that's why i included In identity and i don't agree with joe That we're only our choices right I respect him greatly i think he's a Genius by the way yeah But i think that if you look at all Conflict As a whole let's say 90 of it is all a Debate about history Just one sec you're gonna edit right I'm on a podcast Sure No problem Okay Um So um all of our conflict

[00:21:51] Daniel: Is about our stories And we need to resolve those conflicts we Can't ignore them It's vitally important That we get to know What the other perspective is if it Feels other to me In order for us to mine through that for Agreement like disagreement is not Part of agreement i don't know how you Make new agreement without mining Through disagreement actually and i'm Now speaking from some amateur social Research at this point You know beyond my initial insights Whenever they were We have some sub conversations In is there if you go to is there Enough. org it's kind of an agreement Academy and there's like a link that Says academy and has some subsets and One of those subsets is called core Conversations or i think it's called the Core or whatever And one of them is that Again this can be artificial at first But if we started in conversation with Our sameness and then our difference We end up with a different result than If we go to the automatic like well i'm Different than most people i've said That phrase many times in my life i'm Sure you have too on whatever topic you Think is especially unique right it's like we Want people to know that about us That's us

[00:23:15] Jacob: Like meaning me versus us meaning you And i which us are we gonna start with Is what it boils down to the last Chapter of the book Is called people like us And you can find yourself using that Phrase organically authentically Truthfully in life In conversation You i feel like you're probably moving In a good direction towards what we're Talking about of this ideal value I think the history issue is critical in That cognitive understanding like We are our stories Right all of our victimization That we have suffered all of us have Basically all of our stories all of us Have suffering And we don't feel understood because Nobody's ever suffered like i have in The way that i have about this We're so alone in our suffering we think We are i mean in a way like true like You know who can understand your Suffering the way that you do like bug Mr fuller also said he said no one Again this is a guy who made up words Right so he chose every word super Carefully right he said no one has ever Seen anything Outside of themselves Wow yeah Yeah so if i can pierce through some Approximation of trying to put myself in Your shoes if i can create some

[00:24:41] Jacob: Incentive for myself to do that not Because i should or shouldn't or just

[00:24:46] Daniel: Just as a game again it's a World Game That we're talking about not a war game But a World Game and you can't have a War without a war game and bucky would Say you can't have A world that works without a world that Works game so if you want a world that Works game it all begins with Conversation That tends like you know the way we'd Say that the arc of history bends Towards justice if you want conversation That tends towards collaboration and Agreement it will come from me knowing Your story as you see your story not Telling you why your story's not real Even if by the way your story I would call false Based on some other facts like i learned This from jonathan hype The righteous mind for anybody who wants To look him up and study values of Conservatives and liberals why good People Disagree about uh Uh religion and politics basically But you know there's this Sense Uh and i don't know if our way is you Know the best way or the right way or Anything we need a thousand flowers Blooming but so far what we're Progressing on is stimulating a Conversation where people can get to Know what the other guy's enough is

[00:25:58] Daniel: That's basically what it boils down to When it comes to that Because what i see is not enough and What you see is not enough Is absolutely like a fingerprint and you Can ask yourself the question what Enough is in them in a month from now It'll be different Where have you seen and then where do You see this um Maybe slipping off the tracks like i Think about have you heard of the um The idw the intellectual dark web it's Sam harris eric weinstein brett Weinstein and those sort of guys um I was really into a lot of their Content the last couple years and i Really was fascinated by this thought of Getting intellectual people who kind of think um In a metacognitive way together and Discuss kind of what's going on in the World and why are we thinking Differently and how do we make sense of It better and where are conversations Going awry um And i heard i can't remember exactly who Was involved but i had heard at some Point there was a big meeting of all These you know smart people in a room Sort of thing and it ended up digressing Like even the mediator couldn't seem to

[00:27:00] Daniel: Pull it in it seemed to be like a all

[00:27:02] Jacob: Right whatever guys we're done and this The project kind of just fell a little Have you heard of this or do you think i Haven't heard of that event i haven't Heard of that event i certainly know the The crew and the people around it i'm a you know Avid follower of lamar and so you know i Have sort of tangents in all of those Rooms uh from other people that i work With for many years Um and i think what a testament to how Absolutely difficult it is to create Agreement and collaboration in the world Like Let me say this in the strongest terms i Know how to say Uh we are like alcoholics who haven't Admitted that we're alcoholics when it Comes to this topic right We don't admit can i tell you the number Of times that i have spoken to Leaders you and i Absolutely admire and know are making Good in the world okay Who i've dropped this conversation on at Times and wanted to accept themselves From the crew who don't know how to Collaborate because look at my life and Look how i know how to collaborate about the identity of i'm a collaborator Rather than looking at what's good about That question about how could we become

[00:28:11] Jacob: Super Human at agreement Nothing less than that mandate right

[00:28:18] Daniel: And you know i'm on Clubhouse and i'll Listen to a guy talk about 20 years of His research over three or five minutes On a topic right really powerful stuff And the next person who speaks will go That's really cool i agree with about Ninety percent of that but i noticed you Didn't include anything about that

[00:28:36] Jacob: Right this is common in conversation so i can Imagine And i'm really not trying to Judge people do that i'm just pointing Out this is the thing right when you Talk about history everything i just Said is history Up to this moment right now every Conversation i just referred to in

[00:28:53] Daniel: Clubhouse is history the question is Which is really why we ask is there Enough when people have the conversation The second question comes up and the Second question is called What are we going to do about it

[00:29:07] Jacob: Right which you do not get to ask unless You ask question number one of his Fairness wouldn't make any sense Because what are we going to do about it The it in that sentence refers to what There's not enough of Once you're getting to the it's really The not enough campaign But it wouldn't work that way if we Called it enough and so by examining what there's Not enough of With clarity now because we're not Worrying about the things that really Are enough of that's a big thing that People get out of this conversation by The way is a lot of relief About things they worry about that they Realize they don't have to but once we Then put a laser focus on things we Better freaking worry about like You know our existential threats to Humanity Once we get to that place then it's what Are we gonna do about it and you have This may sound You know Quite adamant or fixed about that but in My view you only have two roads to go There which is conflict Or agreement War agreement i mean as ben ferenz the Last living nuremberg prosecutor 102 Years old to this day still living who Put the term crimes against humanity

[00:30:15] Jacob: Into law for the first time hit the Summation of his life is law Over war that's how he looks at it from A you know his Dean legal Expertise i look at it as an amateur Non-academic and i say Agreement Is the is the every man's law a Five-year-old can make an agreement but They can't write a law you see what i'm Saying and if we had that culture of That respect and recognition for what Giving our word means and living up to That just for the sake of that even when It's inconvenient because we trusted the Long-term economic value not Just moral value i'll leave the moral Side out for people who don't aspire to That let me just give you the economic Reality is that wealth Not money Money's a part of wealth but real wealth Is produced by agreement not resources That's completely false The idea that We would even debate this sometimes when You talk about history we debate Questions we have No benefit Debating like was climate change Man-made or not what a distraction that Was yeah so much wasted time on that subject Right and i think the one about Wealth is You know Is wealth a fixed thing do we do we

[00:31:37] Jacob: Really live on a planet of i keep Hearing this stated like it's a fact That we live on a planet of finite Resources I'm sorry that's That's never been proven in the history Of humanity Never there's not one time we ever ran Out of a resource we didn't replace with Another the problem is us not the Resources Yeah wow okay so where do you see So after you guys get this book Out um are you gonna continue touring or Like what is your what is your Process afterwards how do you keep Having these conversations and who are The type of people that i mean of course You know podcasters and just inquisitive Minds and whatnot but who are the type Of people you're searching for to Have these conversations with and maybe Kind of um you know Enlighten through conversation and kind Of open us up to um even being About being able to have these conversations sure Um so there's a few questions in what You ask that i'll break down this Way um we'll talk about uh the audience First and who we think they are And then what sort of products services Experiences that we want to provide to Them how's that yeah great So i think the people that are

[00:32:50] Daniel: Interested in this conversation Let's say the early adopters are people Who think of themselves as global Citizens In some fashion That's starting point Second are people who want to make a Difference who have that part of their Identity Or aspire to make a difference That's our audience also i think those Two references is at least 100 million People around the planet already Which is pretty comforting to think About right That there's that many And There's another third sector Which are the traditional Transformation seeking personal Development you know leadership Type of conversations Um i am absolutely Not only a derivative of Buckminster Fuller but of Marsha martin A name not a lot of people in your Audience may know but really should Because uh she is uh kind of a living griot you Know a historian and driver of Personal transformation for the last 50 Years of some of the greatest Consequences one of the Reasons why est became a global Phenomenon in the 70s And she's one of my mentors what was her Name one more time Marcia martin Marshall dot com everybody should go to Marcia martin. com Sign up for her 10 a month library which Has some of the most amazing Transformational work

[00:34:19] Jacob: Any of us have ever heard i mean she has Coached and been behind the scenes Coaching some of the greatest leaders That everybody on this podcast Uh likely follows and listens to name Brand folks you can look her up Marcia martin. com but i mention her Because um Her whole life of personal Transformation i feel one of the Greatest things most consequential Things she ever put out in the universe Is that Life lives in the conversation you want Life to move in some other direction That it's not what it is right now it's Going to be because of your conversation That's a starting point and our Entire work is sort of built around that Idea which has been germinating me for 25 years since i met her as a student So i mention all of this because there Are people who are highly transformed by This conversation as i said this is the Thing we talked about before about the Accidental personal development side of This so that's a category as well and we Have something called the agreement Academy Where people who've caught wind of the Fact that they can personally evolve Through this conversation who we just Give them a little package of why don't You go out and have a conversation 10

[00:35:28] Jacob: Times 10 people do some social research With us see what you learn from that so It's a little program like that so That's an audience as well and that gets Me into talking about some of the products and services we have The most important Which that is fun the agreement academy Is very much fun Um but the thing that we think is the Scorecard The thing that's most important to Signify we're having enough conversations out there Is the release of a treaty Remember i said that basically treaties Is where we create wealth from not During the war Um and we call this the last treaty Humanity will ever need to sign because To be signed by humans not nations We think that's unbreakable that's Beautiful it's a decentralized approach to Self-government in the same way that Blockchain is a decentralized approach To money and capital And there is kind of a unique nft Historic thing associated with that as Well and we're in pre-launch for it now So anybody listening to my voice that Says it would be great if the world could actually work this way a way that You can personally Actually move that ball further Certainly following our social media Obviously that always lets the world

[00:36:37] Jacob: Know that people are paying attention to Conversation but if you've looked enough At our argument as to why humanity needs Its own treaty and we make that argument In a another product we have which we call a Survey but it's really like a 30-minute Walk through as to why somebody would Actually sign a treaty on behalf of Themselves in humanity And we intend to bring that treaty to Fruition with 100 million signers over Five years we expect it will take us to Do and so we're in pre-launch for that now And we've told the media that we're Going to get more than 50 000 Uh pre-registrations on the day of Release which means we need people today To let us know they like this idea to Participate in that and then we actually Surpass that and gets onto mainstream Media and we can really build this Conversation around the world so be a Very historic act that people could make Every time people hear about what we Want to do they have an obvious Objection of how the hell are you going To pull that off kind of stuff and our Answer is always well we can pull it off If people like you can help us Yeah and so that um is basically our

[00:37:41] Jacob: Signature product is the treaty in Pre-release now people can look at the Language of it understand the all on our Website isaiah. org it's very clear uh From there and then they can decide if They want to support us just with their Voice and of course if they think that The media we're doing is good and want To throw some dollars into it like any Other non-profit we will absolutely Accept that for people who don't feel They can devote as much time as they Want to and they want us to devote time For them cash will do that for us Yeah i mean i see that as a Definite possibility i mean you know Look at the psychedelic world you Know all the people that are donating to That and all the research that's being Done to that and now that it's kind of The legalities are being cleaned up Around it there's a lot of people who Are like actually this makes a lot of Sense we can all uh help a lot of people In this in this You know this whole Area of exploring our consciousness and Unwinding these things of our identity That the psychedelics help us do um but Yeah you do see a lot more people

[00:38:38] Jacob: Donating to um like even maps Um i can see it as a definite Possibility so this is this might be a Question that's a bit Not worthwhile because i haven't even Glanced at the treaty or i haven't Looked at the website um Right now but uh So say i say i sign this treaty what Does my life look like after that so say I put my name on the list how do i live Differently Afterwards are my interactions different Is my conversations with myself Different what do you see as a change after Participating in this Well fortunately i can answer that Question from real life examples of lots of People besides me who've been following This conversation for a few years And i remember the first time i had the Realization just before the treaty Existed but the conversation had started And my friend jim was at an event in Boston and he had heard me talk about This six months before And we were having a conversation in Boston at the end of the evening he goes You know when daniel first brought up this Conversation i went home that night And uh Thought about all the things that there Are enough of and the things that are

[00:39:46] Jacob: Not enough of you know and i realized i Was fretting about a lot of things i Didn't need to fret about i started to Realize the things that there are not enough of what i could do something About like it was just as if it was a Plant you know in terms of me describing It this way but it was this organic Experience and i found a lot of other People as well Uh the treaty is a great scorecard for Us But it's the conversations that produce The treaty signings in the first place That's the real product Of our work right so when we Successfully reach 100 million signers People say well of course you'll extend That no it'll be 100 million signers Because the product Of that game is all the ripple effect of The conversations even people who refuse To sign it i've had people who look at It think it's fantastic but it's missing One thing and they won't sign it because Of that one thing Um which again gets us back to how Difficult it is to find agreement like Just because of one thing that they Disagree with they can't you know and That's what it is right Um but that person who won't sign it

[00:40:49] Jacob: Loves the work enough that they're Introducing me to other people of Influence and they're still you know Kind of arguing this or that point or

[00:40:56] Daniel: Showing up at a Clubhouse or whatever And so what i believe the value we've Done for that individual who didn't sign The treaty is in some ways just as Important as somebody who signs it now Somebody who signs it If we do our job right that they really Know what they're signing and continue To educate them to the level that they Want to you know have more information On this and deepen this the way that jim Had organically over six months Is we continue to feed Content And experiences and games and events Which are all demonstrating Collaboration And if Marcia martin and i were here Having a conversation together i would Say Marcia would you agree that a lot of Our literature of transformation is About awareness she's an she's an Awareness You know guru right she really understands how to Convey to another human being how to Increase their own awareness in magical Ways but i think that all of the People that have written over the last 70 years Of this sort of Human potential movement were very Little has been put onto the literature Of demonstration and i don't think Transformation happens without both Awareness and demonstration together for The most part Um which gets you that question of how

[00:42:13] Daniel: Come i've read all these books and my Life hasn't changed Question so my answer to that is it's going to be Up to us to take that audience attention Make sure that people know that they're Making a commitment To themselves it's not to us or you know Guru daniel or some sort of silly thing Like that it's just a commitment to Themselves to just do the best they can To make agreement and really live up to That Um i don't see how they could fail you Know what i mean and i don't see how they could improve Of course some will do lots with it and Others do less but i think it's Net human positive by the way the phrase That somebody wanted me to include in The treaty was net nature positive And uh and i didn't Agree to that because Um i think that humanity's Sustainability is about itself not about The planet i think that if humanity is Sustaining itself it will take care of The planet i think trying to help people To take care of the planet versus Humanity inadvertently creates a war Between nature and humanity

[00:43:20] Jacob: Yeah i mean it creates a separation Right yes and i don't think we should be Seeing it as a default as a separation Because we yeah i mean in my eyes we are Like i said we are of nature we are the Same thing as the planet Yes and i'm not capable of Speaking from that place of nature the Way you evocatively do i am very much uh About how do we work together oh we're Talking about nature great let's do that You know what i mean look because i love That because it's the part of the People like us thing that i'm putting People already think it's too broad what We're doing but to us we're very laser Focused on this issue You know that sustainability is about It's like uh George carlin if anybody hasn't looked It up has a great thing about that the Planet will be fine just search george Carlin the planet will be fine that in a Very funny way expresses this Um yeah so does this answer the question About the scale like the idea here Is to make the treaty our Highest record of the conversation in a Way and for each individual that signs It they are able to you know aspire to a

[00:44:27] Jacob: Commitment to make agreement over Conflict wherever they can And we then are looking as a content studio Because obviously 100 million people is De facto a television network in my view Um and so how do we create those experience Including games where we bring people Together of very little likelihood of Agreeing and figuring out incentives and Ways for them to find agreement without Compromise Agreement with compromise is not is not What we're talking about at least not to Compromise values or history or tribe Or whatever it is right i don't have to Join your tribe to agree with you we can Find agreement first you know from where We sit this is why it's history and Choices together right so that's Basically where our strategy is that we Will involve people in this conversation By creating activities and games and Events and turning it into a television Network and uh and uh our business model For it was will be That the audience will In a tokenized way own that television Network uh some day near soon Right yeah i really see how the i Feel like even just you speaking About it um in me kind of sitting with

[00:45:43] Daniel: You know the hashtag is there enough it Is kind of this i do see how it opens Doors it's this uh it's this lock there's This key to locks that like creates Possibility where I mean if you just if you just word the Question a little bit differently There's not there's not possibility of Opening right There's fascinating Uh Part of the conversation we're Opening by realizing that because It's sometimes a different set of words That's the same question

[00:46:17] Jacob: Okay i'll give you an example

[00:46:19] Daniel: Our for-profit company is called impact Launchpad that's a venture student Special impact venture studio And we ask a question on there That says how will we find the three and A half trillion dollars necessary to Invest in the future of humanity and When i say necessary The sustainable development goals you Could think of the 17 sustainable Development goals the united nations for For those who don't know what that is Um have a price tag associated with them That's estimated we might debate on the Number whether it's three and a half or Five and a half or whatever it is but There's a deficit In what we've already identified Needs to be spent To save humanity and it's not come from Our existing sources being nations Philanthropy and private investment So asking that question is kind of is There enough money Where are we going to find three and a Half trillion dollars to invest in the Future vending does that exist I mean there's 24 trillion in the ground in the Democratic republic of congo one of the Poorest countries on earth that has Guess what not very much agreement in a Whole lot of war We have uh something from seven to nine Quadrillion estimated worth between real Estate Um financial assets outstanding credits

[00:47:46] Daniel: Uh art artwork i mean on and on before We start mining asteroids so do we have Three and a half trillion dollars I would say we do But we don't have the agreement somehow Again this is why this is so central to Our professional work everything we've Talked about to this point is if we had The agreement some agreement Of how we'd actually come up with that Money we could invest that money in Stuff we know it's like saying we're not Going to build that ridge or bridge or Road as far as i'm concerned it's human Infrastructure So you take the is there enough Conversation you make it much more Specific to that situation in My relationship with my significant Other there could be an is there enough Style question There too and that really gets us when you talk About opening up possibility which must Take place for transformation which is Why Marsha you know is such a guru of Possibility and awareness in her work And so are all the great people we Follow always about possibility that Is something we've taken out of our Online conversation so let me be Specific so it was accidental this Conversation of is there enough but once I saw the effect it had with people

[00:48:55] Daniel: Realized it was a thing oh let's get a Website And to me it was always about the Hashtag With a question mark And you can't put a question mark in a Hashtag And you can't put it in a domain name We've called these things special Characters as they're not part of Regular conversation was that any wonder Why people are just shouting stuff at Each other and telling people you're Looking at the wrong facts interesting

[00:49:21] Jacob: Yeah

[00:49:24] Daniel: And Clubhouse has been a real Breakthrough and social audio in general The Clubhouse like saying kleenex right But Clubhouse and social audio has Given us a way for people to start Asking each other questions which is why I think it's a breakthrough You know when first when Clubhouse first Uh when i first heard about it i had a Couple weeks of just like spending so Much i thought i was like this is the most revolution there's something about This i was like this is this is This is something it was uh It took the social media um condensing Everything down and the The display of Kind of like the inherent Virtue i don't know virtue signaling is The best word but the inherent like Display that we all put on when we're Communicating through social media everybody's reading what you're saying but you're just talking to this person Um yes something about when the Clubhouse just the audio only Conversations came about i'm like oh This is something this is this is really

[00:50:16] Jacob: Cool so what have you guys you guys Have had a lot of um uh would you say

[00:50:19] Daniel: Fruitful conversations in Clubhouse and In these audio chat rooms has it changed The game a lot for you or For all for everything we do we look at It as social research all the Conversations we've had around the world And all that stuff So this became a mecca of conversation For us as well i mean i've had conversations With some really interesting unsavory Characters On there that i've been able to actually Make a little agreement with here and There um just because i'm always testing Myself how can i make agreement and very You know it's just kind of my jam at This point you know in difficult Circumstances and i've learned a lot From that um And uh Up to now we've just been visiting other People's rooms And talking about what we're doing And the reaction Let me say it's been so strong it's been a little Scary And It's it also unveiled something when you talk About what we need to learn and research And stuff like that

[00:51:24] Daniel: If you think about it's obvious when I say it but over the last 15 or 20 Years the global world order as a concept has Become a nefarious thing after world war Ii it was an aspect of creating freedom Around the world with all of its Hypocrisy of course because it's really World war ii never ended it just Converted into another war But the but the u. n declaration of human Rights is a really admirable document And it's really mostly an american Document it really looks amazingly like Like the bill of rights Um and like there's a lot of americans Who've never even read it so this is why I'm you know stating that it's worth a Read But over the last you know particularly Last 15 20 years the whole concept of a Global world order has become something Of you know little men sitting in a Corner sort of trying to run world Government kind of thing And i think it's made us safer Environment for nationalism which is Very war-like And i'm talking about how to make the world Work for 100 of humanity so if you're Very fearful about world order i sound Like an enemy And so there were like a group of people

[00:52:32] Daniel: That got together in a room and had like An important discussion about whatever Daniel's saying and is he part of the Cabal Oh yeah so this is one of the extremes That we learned about and what i like to Do is i like to take a weakness and turn It into a strength if i can legitimately And um so what i've come to do Proactively in my conversation is Emphasize uh that we're building a world Game not a world order That we're engaging people to Participate in the only real purpose of

[00:53:04] Daniel: Is there enough in the end result with All the transformations all that Wonderful stuff we talked about is that The way you win the World Game is you Enroll everybody in the World Game I'd love talking about Marcia in this Conversation but so much uh that I'll emphasize her history a Little further Is when i showed her some of the work That we've done like showing my teacher You know this proud work that i'd come Up with and um and i put up two slides in front Of her and i said how do you make the World work for 100 of humanity by Enrolling everyone in the game and this Treaty and this conversation is like a Baby step into the World Game and she Looked back and she said you know when We founded the hunger project which is One of you know the more important ngos Of the last 35 years Um which was founded by est and warner Earhart she said that werner announced everybody What they were going to do they were like a seminar company at the time and Somebody in the back of the room raised Their hand and said uh we're going to End world hunger how And his like immediate response was he

[00:54:04] Daniel: Said the first thing we're going to do Is persuade people it can be done And that's all we're really doing is Selling humanity and the fact that we Can overcome our existential threats we Can survive we do not have to go down This road of eschatology and oh the end Of the world is a wonderful thing no It's not right we can survive that is Our job that's what we were put here for And if we can rule enough people in that As a mission it but the fact i mean we Have some ideas about how to make the World work by investing in it okay Those are not the only ways to make the World work by far right so if we can Just enroll people that the World Game Is their responsibility Boom That's what we're after

[00:54:49] Jacob: Wow you know I must say daniel i feel uh I feel this sense of uh hopefulness i Think is the right word it's strangely Uh um uh because a lot of the You know when we i think just the basic Narrative of the state of the world you Know it's kind of this nihilistic like i Don't know it seems like we're kind of losing our minds and we don't seem to be Able to get on the same page and make Sense of what's going on and hopefully We face in the right direction hopefully Somebody figures it out you know i feel Like uh the things you're bringing up in In this conversation give me this sense Of hopefulness of oh yeah we do have the Power of uh Um you know just through Conversation in inquiring and uh um you Know discussing these things we do of Course have more than enough power to Kind of handle the quarrels that Seem to face us or may face us in the Future this is uh i think It's a Thing for us to be highly compassionate Of ourselves That in our fear of our existential Challenges we're being responsible in Recognizing what those are At the end of the day we're still going

[00:55:56] Jacob: To have to ask the question what are we Going to do about it as well And i do believe that over time We'll have less impact By getting to that question what are we Going to do about it's not Uh unreasonable or Or unfeasible for people to be worried About our destruction uh in 20 It's estimated we'll have a billion People homeless and without a passport Uh i mean just think like uh-huh uh If it was 100 million was the was The projection that would be a hundred Times the syrian crisis and look what That did to destabilize the world right So We're not even beginning to approach a Really big problem like i mean we're Doing our part to hopefully to invest in Some solutions for that how people will Be housed and you know 3d printing and You know growing food on site and all That wonderful tech that's out there Again which just needs money in Agreement because money is just an Agreement But at the end of the day uh I hope that it isn't just hope But feasible possibilities that are Worth failing at compared to doing Nothing you know what i mean at least Agree with me on that it's worth Trying to do something about

[00:57:13] Jacob: As opposed to just coming up with our Stories About why we can't That's i hope the part that is giving You the experience of hope Yeah no i think i think it very Much is it's a Yeah like i said just to Re-emphasize just like the door Opening um of this conversation it does Seem like it's uh No you get to see more lights on Down the hallway okay want to check out Over there it doesn't seem like there's Any sort of door closing it seems like Um i don't know hope seems like to be the word that Sprouts in my mind um daniel we are Getting up here in time i do actually Have to head to the airport like not After too long um i would love to get Like a just one more summarization of Where to send people um your website um Do you have a date for when the book is Coming out yet do you have that set yet I don't but it's definitely in the first Quarter of 2023 Great um people will see links to it on The israelites. org website or they can Go to the firstagreement. com Um i would encourage everybody to follow Our social media so we can express to

[00:58:20] Jacob: The world uh you know the people are paying Attention to our conversation i think The uh desire to become part of our Relaunch or a pre-launch and sign the Treaty they may need some more Investigation before they do that and i Hope they do i want them to knowledgeably know what it is that they're signing up For so to speak Um and uh i think they'll find you know

[00:58:42] Daniel: If they're on Clubhouse joining our Clubhouse room is where they can really Engage us in conversation about This and then what is it what is your Guys's social media You'll find it all on is there enough Dot org it links to all of our social Media right there Um and um And uh if you even just join our mailing List every time we add and we have we're Adding social media in pieces as we get Community managers and all the various Social media um but uh If they go to Isthereenough.org They'll find what is in existence right Now gotcha okay well and i'll include um

[00:59:18] Jacob: Links to that in the bio so Listeners if You're listening just look down below there should be a link to what you need To go to and definitely check it out um Daniel i really appreciate your presence And your time and in your discussion Here with me today man i really um I'm glad you guys are doing what You're doing i think it's awesome i'm Very intrigued um i'm definitely gonna Be diving through that website myself And i look forward to the book coming Out man it's been a real honor being With you jacob and i think your Questions are so insightful i can see Why this podcast has so much tension Thank you appreciate you man all right have a good Rest of your day daniel and then hey Maybe i'll see you around you're in austin so Maybe i'll cross passes yeah stay in Touch man i would truly love that and i Would love to introduce you to christy

[00:59:59] Daniel: Thompson who is that dancing guy uh Individual with a fascinating story of Transformation yeah it sounds amazing

[01:00:06] Outro: Yes shoot me an email i'd love to make That happen man let's do that okay all Right take care Better daddy At what age do we learn to have better Conversations with ourselves Knowledge is power