The JYLP Episode 097 with Kevin Foreman - Fighting For Sobriety

[00:00:00] Intro: Hello and welcome to the junkyard love podcast at what age do we learn to have better conversations with ourselves knowledge is power reality is Let's uh if you don't mind let's start with kind of just a brief bio background like who are you what is it that you do

[00:01:02] Kevin: Yeah sounds great sounds Great that question you know honestly is always kind of uh stumped me in some ways right because it's such a big question but I'll definitely dive into it um So currently I am a small business owner so I operate this company called Black Sheep Business Consulting uh I'm five and a half years sober I'm feeling pretty decent overall life still has a lot of challenges but um that's kind of where I'm at right now my story um goes all over the place of course um you know I grew up in um in a city where their middle class had a great community of friends around me and uh from a young age like lots of people maybe not like that many people but we we drink a lot you know we yeah I think I think a lot of you know young guys kind of fell into that space and girls but um yeah so as time progressed um I got really interested in having big goals in life you know I wanted to be an athlete that was really my overarching goal um and honestly like I really believe I want to bring positive change to the world so it's like I'm Gonna Be An Athlete but I'm gonna do something with it um

[00:02:31] Kevin: And that was way more General than it is now I have much more clear objectives of how it could help but yeah so as I went through life you know I just kept digging into um this cycle of addiction really in many different ways um drinking lots um it's pretty aggressive too honestly growing up and um as time went on uh the pro athlete thing didn't work out wasn't big enough to be a forward in rugby was it fast enough to be a back so there's two positions there forwards and backs and uh yeah I kept getting injured so I around 18 or 19 I stepped out of um out of that position of you know wanting to go pro and um I started working with my dad's business full-time whereas you know from 10 to 18 I was just part-time so he had a property service business I started to get more and more into that I always loved business in the back of my mind I was always like business that was the other the other option for me right so dove into that for a few years um operated business for three years just the uh the alcoholism was growing I was like I think it was the

[00:03:56] Kevin: Um it was like the definition of work hard play hard you know I would and especially when you're 19 years old and 20 you're like oh I can drink I can drink water and then I can go to work and I'm fine when you get a little older and you're like whoa what's happening here so yeah you know I did that it was awesome I learned so much through those a few years there from like 18 to 21 and then by the time I got to 21 I realized the business was not sustainable the way I had set it up I really wanted to scale the business and it wasn't really happening Plus at the same time I was pretty fatigued and stressed because I hadn't had learned about wearing yourself out which does which does happen so you need to always be conscious of that I believe so I stepped out of it and my dad agreed and um because he was kind of helping like mentoring me sort of as I was going through that stage of my life and he agreed he's like yeah step out of it so stepped out of it you know 21-22 I had a bit of cash there because I had gone out of the business

[00:05:01] Kevin: And traveled a lot so I from like 21 to 26 I travel tons like there's always more traveling to do I'm not the most well-traveled person but I'm not the least well traveled person were you traveling for work or Leisure or a bit above Leisure yeah um definitely sure yeah um and uh

[00:05:28] Jacob: Yeah I remember one time I uh the first

[00:05:31] Kevin: Trip I went on my own I arrived in Stockholm Sweden on like a Friday night at like 10 p. m or something and I was there to party anyways and the guard like I walked up and like in the purpose of the trip there's like this Swedish card this woman there and I said I'm here to party out and she's like that's not a valid reason to enter Sweden unfortunately and I'm like for leisure anyway I know that was like the beginning of my 21 year old trip to Europe that reminds me of have you seen Superbad with uh yeah but I should have I know yeah he has he has this scene where uh like a cop asked him he has a fake ID and it just says McLovin as his name it's ridiculous it's a hilariously stupid movie you should totally watch it but um uh like they asked how old he is and he says old enough to party that's his response is just so stupid but yeah that's awesome

[00:06:31] Jacob: Yeah that's straight out of that movie

[00:06:33] Kevin: My response yeah but um yeah so you know it traveled a lot there um just kept digging into um a substance abuse and whatnot came back my plan was so in one sense what happened there was awesome because I really stepped into the idea that I'm not that concerned about from a young age I'm not that concerned about you know letting go of a business at a crucial time in your life right because when you usually when you leave High School you're like what am I going to do with my life that's one of the biggest questions at plagues you and as time goes on you're either like in your mind going I've got this or I don't have this or I have some parts of it or I don't you're less about like what am I doing more about like okay where am I where am I at internally where am I at maybe even financially where am I at you know it's relationship so a lot of people are plagued by that question and rightfully so and I was more like you know what I'm gonna be fine whatever I do I'm I have a few different ideas of what I'm going to go into this isn't right in business right now

[00:07:42] Kevin: And let's do something else so anyways long story short traveled Lots love to chat about that maybe a little bit later uh on the show but um yeah I mean uh as time went on um I um started working in utilities and just got into more and more um uh recreational activities with different substances whatnot and then really got into that for a few years from like 24 to 27 and then I had this life-changing event um when I was 27 I believe and that's what kind of set me on the current trajectory I'm on okay yeah I definitely want I feel like this is a phenomenal you know we could spend some time on this life-changing event if you don't mind because uh I feel like many I mean for me I had a similar you know around that age where like it's like everything seemed to change and um I don't know if you're familiar but uh like in the artist world in the world of musicians I might have mentioned this to you on our call there's like this 27 Club um yeah so there's like Nirvana Kurt Cobain uh you know it's essentially like I'm gonna party like a rock star like you know live every day you're

[00:09:01] Kevin: Gonna die whatever like so you basically are under the understanding that you're kind of gonna die when you're 27. Hendrix too there's all these different ones yeah there's so many this is something weird with our psychology there too for sure definitely yeah okay so yeah no that was definitely so yeah what changed what happened and yeah let's talk about life before and after definitely so I really enjoyed going to White Caps games so it's this uh the soccer team and uh I was actually there with my dad it was a season ticket holder and um but you wouldn't sit in the seats you'd stand because it was the Super section so I was at a game and by the way I'm completely wrong in all this I shouldn't have done this but it's just this is kind of what happened um so is that the scheme second half usually no one would be in the seats to the left of me because the whole section was just like supporters and anyways No One issues in that in those two seats for whatever reason um Yeah so basically there were the gentlemen next to me that were standing there and I guess they had like they were standing but there was a half drank

[00:10:19] Kevin: Water bottle in the cup holder to the left of me so being you know inebriated I just thought Ah that's not a big deal because I had these two beers and I dropped it behind their seat um which of course I should not have done and then I put one of the beers I was holding in there as the game continued uh one of them brought it up to me and you know was rather upset and I I believe Apollo I would apologize and I you know said that I was in the wrong but who knows um as time went on and I was pretty loud because a lot of people in that section are really loud and chanting doing things they continue to bring up the issue and call whole names and whatnot and it really continued and anyways um you know some back and forth happened and eventually a fight broke out um again eight Sonic broken record but I'm completely wrong in this and yeah but uh in the end you know the police came down um I was in like a pretty violent fight um between a bunch of different individuals there um and in the end I was charged with you know three uh charged but not convicted

[00:11:42] Kevin: In the end uh so charged with three counts of assault and um uh was asked to not return to the uh The Event Center there the stadium and as time went on I had a court date in October um that was in August and um in September I just like by fluke called a number for lawyer to send you as a lawyer and it happened to be somebody I went to high school with who I know was incredible at law and very intelligent because one of my best friends is a lawyer and he would always tell me that he was like leading the university and just incredible so it was interesting how that worked out that was on a Monday he checked my file this is at like 7 45 PM so most people aren't working you know answering calls at that time um And he as of the Friday the prosecutor had reviewed the files prior to going into court and he put out like a um put out a um like a court order that I would have to follow um pretty much stating that I would not drink um throughout the entire court proceedings like for the next however many months or years I didn't see it because I'm not checking

[00:13:09] Kevin: That system and there was like a warrant out for my arrest so it was pretty incredible this gentleman was able to communicate this to me search it find it like communicate it to me make a plan with me um secure me as a client right security is a client uh and then go on to over the next few days speak to the prosecutor set up a time for us to go into court and meet me outside of the courtroom walk me through without getting arrested because technically I should have been arrested at that point in time so no handcuffs put on me whatsoever he walked me through because he knew all the different security guards and whatnot at the courthouse and uh and then leading up to that talk to me about the court order and say to me you know if you want to do this and if you're going to agree to it if you plan to drink through this process don't agree to it because um you will face potentially jail time if you're if you're caught drinking throughout the court proceedings here over the next few months so inside I felt friggin saved because I was like this is the first time finally something's forcing me to do

[00:14:28] Kevin: This I've felt inside multiple times that I have this issue and it's like it's such a personal thing right you could drink I truly believe you could drink every single day and you could not be an alcoholic it's or you could drink once a year and you could be an alcoholic or once every 20 years like so it's such a personal thing and inside I had tried to stop my family didn't enough to play my family but they never thought they just thought it was a joke like oh Kevin's fine but inside I really I really wanted something to like get in my way so I was like holy geez I literally felt saved because I had to stop drinking there's probably a little bit of fear there too at the beginning but I also remember feeling that I can actually remember where I was standing I was on the top of a landfill because that's where I was working I was doing different uh utilities and piping because landfills have a lot of methane gas so and it was kind of cool because just the way the sun was out it was like this really interesting setting I always remember just like walking and being on

[00:15:31] Kevin: The phone and just like yeah and thinking about it so anyways from that point on yeah it was from that point on it was um it was Serenity right it was it was turning myself over and um saying I have an issue and I'm willing I'm willing for something outside of myself to guide me and as Court went on as everything went on I went through the steps of you know volunteering um I realized I had a huge anxiety issue like huge and that's really what was driving me to drink was the fact that inside I was nervous I was scared and I was I didn't feel right like a lot of us right a lot everyone feels like that right so it came to the service so it took about eight months to go through the whole process um part of it because they kept throwing it out for a little bit so they'd be like ah it's almost Christmas let's wait till after Christmas and see if this guy messes up or let's you know let's let's kick down the road a little bit let's and um yeah for me that's just all external to me and it was amazing and positive in a lot of

[00:16:46] Kevin: Different ways so as we got to the end one of the um victims or complainants um you know just was not very happy briefly so and um they pushed it and they were like hey we want to see more done so the last month was like okay I went to court and they were like okay it's gonna be an intense month basically this is what my lawyer kind of told me there's going to be you know you'll be volunteering at where the court says not where you want to volunteer like they're going to tell you where um so the X amount of hours there um there's going to be drug and alcohol counseling uh and a few other items and you're going to have a parole officer that you have to report to for that month if you do all this then we should be good to move forward out of this and drop the charges as long as you're remorseful and move forward um so in that month that all happened kind of on a Monday sort of leading up to that you know maybe a week or so and then something like that and then on the Monday went into court boom um and coming over to court you know I

[00:17:51] Kevin: Met with a parole officer spoke with them I called the place that I was supposed to go to and they were like hey look this is for people who have like serious um you know subscription addictions you know downers uh there's a wait list so they're like look we can't just let you in right now so I communicated that to the parole officer then they said hey what about uh Alcoholics Anonymous there's a meeting you know tonight and I was like great you know I inside I was like yes Something's Gonna save me something like that so I went into this meeting and I had four of those once a week um for that month and uh it was so cool the first meeting like most people in AAA you're just like what is this it was an all men's meeting which was great because I've heard that in like men's and women's meetings a lot of people get distracted they're like oh how am I how am I appearing and how am I whereas in men's or if you're you know just in a woman's one like it you're just focused on just being honest and just sharing your truth right so it was great and but the first meeting

[00:19:06] Kevin: Is really weird because everyone is for the most part sober everyone's very nice and everyone's laughing and for someone who's like a male who grew up drinking and like you know a lot of sports teams which but you're just being like a degenerate maybe and like drinking doing this and that like to go to a meeting where everyone's sober in a room and just like laughing and enjoying themselves is very strange it's like you're on another planet really yeah yeah really and everyone says the same thing too everyone always goes like first meeting I was like you guys are something's up here yeah did I walk into a cult room on accident like what is this seriously and like aha yeah I yeah I didn't know what was happening so and I also didn't know if they had someone from the courts there that was gonna like listen so I was like I did not know what so I was like can I are you guys all real like are you guys because I had my core papers too and they're like hey nobody knows anyone from your court pretty much something to that degree share chair and just whatever so like you're safe you can you can communicate freely

[00:20:20] Kevin: You know you don't have to have guards up you know exactly so you know I shared a bit and as the weeks went on um you know after the first or second meeting there's this guy called John and uh you know he just kind of said hey it's all good it's all good and just started to like call me and that was one of pieces that I used to battle the anxiety thing and my therapist that I reached out to and I still work with today said a similar thing right that's where I was really shook I don't know what happened to his job but I and that calming for psychopathic it's all good that's what I really needed so anyways as time went on I've pretty much stayed with that group since um the charges were dropped um which is you know a blessing in many ways at the same time I'm very remorseful for what happened and grateful that I'm able to see everything from this new light you know and um yeah times time has gone and uh just you know I'm still going to that same meeting that same Monday night 8 PM men's meeting and uh still seeing that therapist that I met just right around

[00:21:40] Kevin: That same time and started seeing an anxiety therapist she's fantastic and life's continued on and I've that's where really you know this spiritual part which I think is you know great for your show and for your audience to kind of chat about it like that's where that really came to light like where the light started shining real bright and where I came to my own beliefs upon personal beliefs in that regard so yeah

[00:22:11] Jacob: Um yeah okay wow so I mean when I'm when I'm sensing from you what I'm hearing from you is just like this overflowing cup of just gratitude for this situation you know it's like you're trying to find this way of speaking about this thing that actually happened you know you made an ass out of yourself when you were drunk at a baseball game you know or at a sporting event and um you know and you don't want to talk about it in a sense of like I was in the right you know I definitely hear you saying like man I was just totally unconscious to my actions you know and and um this anxiety Factor really really sneaks in here on me because I wonder about this like I feel so many of us you know myself included in my own Journey um like you're almost like you don't you don't necessarily realize why you're drinking so much like why can't I have an okay time without the drinking like what it like and then when you hear someone say well I had an anxiety problem I was like running away from someone I'm trying not to feel this like uncomfortable anxiety that's like still in here all the time trying to shut it

[00:23:09] Jacob: Up or whatever it's hard to hard to hear that unless you're on the other side and then you can kind of admit oh yeah I had that you know that I had that anxiety too it was eating me alive totally and like I always with all of this it's like most people we speak about this and hey I want to quote a but this is my own kind of thing so

[00:23:32] Kevin: Most people are in the middle of everything they're in an okay job and I'm not trying to down play like people in general but just they're stuck in the middle it's like it's everything's okay maybe with the relationship's okay maybe they feel okay about themselves maybe their goals are okay they're kind of going for everything's okay it's just kind of in the middle one great thing about going all out in life is that you're gonna fail and you're gonna fail real big sometimes like it's like things are going to blow up potentially yeah figuratively speaking and that was kind of the crash course that I was on and this was like the huge big major fail and through that I was able to realize you know that I had a huge that I was way too aggressive that I had an anxiety challenge like a really big one that I was using alcohol from a very young age to like numb myself right majorly not myself and other substances and so that's just the one like if I could share one thing with anyone who's kind of in the middle on stuff it's like go all out just because the failure like at that time I was like this is the end of

[00:24:47] Kevin: Everything this how am I going to get through it that was always a plan right like how am I gonna get through this in life how am I going to get through that and by letting everything blow up you're able to kind of just step back and go

[00:24:59] Kevin: Okay where was I completely wrong but if you just are always in the middle you're just always going to stay there right and that's a great thing about alcoholics and maybe anyone who's it could maybe even extending outside of Alcoholics like somebody who's in a relationship or maybe somebody who's abusive himself it's like when you're able to kind of step out of it you're able to examine it with like a new light so yeah it's not always the worst to kind of run into these major issues because you can you can learn so much more but just from the alcohol standpoints like are we grateful alcoholics or even like uh in any in even in like relationships we're in a better relationship are you grateful that you were in that bad relationship the idea is that we are grateful because without this trauma and without these challenges we wouldn't have been able to learn this right so can you imagine just being in the middle of everything oh I've got I'm going from one okay relationship to another okay one my job's okay it could be better it could be worse you're never going to learn anything right so anyways it's just going all out and almost like

[00:26:10] Jacob: My the way I think is really visual and

[00:26:14] Kevin: In rugby so you play a lot of rugby we would always talk about when you're going to crash a ball so you're taking the ball it's kind of like football in a sense you're looking to go as far forward as you can before you go to the floor before you go to the ground taking somebody else with you like literally grabbing one of your fellow teammates and running in so that they help push you like another you know a yard forward that is what I always think about when I think about um like failing in life is like with your team go as far as you can crash and then get up again and do it again right like so anyways it's kind of a physical way of thinking about it but that just always comes to mind in business and a lot of different things this is reference right you know just taking something to the extremes that you can learn from it right even for marketing like you do a lot of marketing with the business there's a guy called Alex harmasian he says marketing is just a fancy word a fancy nine letter word for test it's all you're doing right you're just testing how something works so anyways it's

[00:27:26] Kevin: It's good it's good to fail it's good to fails yeah and I like that I feel like what was coming to mind is this um and I've said it on here a lot and I butchered it just as many times um I forget exactly if it was like Vikings or what but back in the day there's this story of um you know Landing getting a bunch of ships together the Army lands boom and they all start you know approaching they're approaching the enemy of camp and then they look back in the leader of it has burnt all the boats he's burnt the ships and he's and they're like what are you doing and he's like we can't lose now like we can't go back there's no option to go back you know and so sometimes you almost got to like hear that you got to hear that catalyst is a great word I feel like Catalyst for like um you know this A Spiritual Awakening or really just the Catalyst for living through a more true version of who you are in a lot of ways you know and you know I guess what I think um how did you I mean

[00:28:21] Jacob: It seems to you like you had this beautiful moment of being like at the Waste Control place you know and uh and you said like these you notice this is the colors in the sky and whatever you know it's yeah how did you because a lot of this thing like for me with my own addictions with my own you know I've had plenty of plenty of way too late nights you know multiple nights a weekend and uh you know I get off I'm at a club and I'm DJing and then it's not what that's when the party starts and it's 10 a. m and I'm still awake and I'm talking everybody's ear off because I've been doing a bunch of coke and just drinking 25 beers and all that stuff and um a lot of times it's like I have this intuition inside I have this like voice going what are you doing dude you don't need this like you know you don't want to do this doesn't make you feel good you've learned this lesson already how many how many more times must you learn it you know how do you how do you think that you finally were able to hear that voice because I think so many

[00:29:10] Kevin: Once we're on the other side we can go yeah man I had that voice too I had that intuition trying to tell me like you're not doing the thing yes totally so a few different things a you can never if even things first you have to ask yourself a series of questions right are you in a place where you're addicted to what you're doing right it's like it's a yes or no okay so you have to ask yourself like hey do I have a problem where I actually need to turn myself over to something else because doing it alone I don't I honestly don't believe Works personally it I can't answer it for the person who just thinks that they have like a really strong habit for it I can only say for if you actually and this extends to like relationships extends like say you're working at a place and your boss is horrible and you've tried to like complain make it better but it's not working you're in a situation regardless where something's insane and you need to get out of it you need to ask yourself whether that's alcohol drugs relationship anything spiritually maybe you're in a religion or you're practicing something that isn't working right ask yourself whether it's Insanity

[00:30:22] Kevin: Whether you need to get out of it or not if you're willing to do whatever it takes to get out of it to make your life better then you need to take the next step for myself and for anyone this might extend to other things so for myself it was the first part so what's the whole junkyard thing like sorry not junker button the whole um landfill scene that was just like the question I asked myself then was this is leading up to them you know I worked a job I pavement taxes for the most part I did everything I just used a lot of substances on my own time and traveled and was like kind of crazy in that regard I like to go to really dangerous places anyways slightly dangerous and we can do that in a bit but um I asked myself on that landfill the question was this okay tough guy I literally like said that to myself sorry it's kind of embarrassing but you know you think you're this and that because I would I would go to these sporting events for the soccer thing and I would see the other teams and I would like lift them off and this and that like I was

[00:31:27] Kevin: Anyways one time for example they like they were walking down the street after a game and they had like a sticker and they jumped up and put it on a on a um a Lamppost like really high and I've so I should be laughing at this is a different game by the way I ran up and like jumped really high and grabbed it and I just put it in my box and I'm like not in our city like this and that and and anyways but the whole thing is I was in many ways out of control I consider myself be a hooligan I said to myself where are you going to take this at that point in time like that was kind of one of the questions because it wasn't like an immediate call of hey look this is here like we were kind of going back and forth for a bit so that was running through my head I was like are you willing to keep going down that path are you going to realize right now have this issue you need to like listen to this excellent legal advice and you know you have a drug and alcohol problem as well and this is like a Saving Grace and I

[00:32:23] Kevin: Was able to go okay I'm willing to try this because inside I've always believed in good in myself right I'm like I need I need to do what is good I need to do what is right so I it was a a step into Serenity where I was like okay I'm gonna try whatever it takes here because I know this is the right path so that's kind of where it started yeah I hear that I hear that yeah you have to you have to kind of like yeah you have to almost get out you have to get out of your own way in a lot of aspects to like let that other thing come through oh yeah and that's like in the program about and I say this but it this extends to like pretty much anything right like anything else where it's like you have a problem where you need to get out of something the first step in AAA which again I think is translatable is admitting that it's an issue boom you know I this is out of my control I'm powerless over this thing this whatever this addiction is whatever it is it's I can't do it and it's not working and I need I need something else to say basically

[00:33:33] Kevin: And then I don't want to approach through the steps but I know from there it goes like I do it a lot and everyone knows all the different codes and the there's not codes but like all the different steps and for me I'm just a sponge I listen and then I try to implement in my life and that's my truth is like I believe that you can do things wrong all the time but if inside you're literally trying your best it's all good right which is the opposite of what we're told in public school and everything it's like don't take risks you need to if you don't get this number on here you're a bozo and you're this and you're going to go down this path and it's like the older I get the more I realize that's the biggest freaking lie ever and it's like if that was bad when I was growing up like what's hap what's happening now so anyway so yeah but you know it's yeah just I was able to start going down that path and um of just like opening myself to other things and that's what's cool about it is over the last five and a half years the number one thing that's like

[00:34:44] Kevin: Kind of risen I want to say over top of everything because my sobriety and um you know my religious beliefs and whatnot that's like number one but the biggest theme is Taoism and the idea of just like energy good bad evil and just that the universe is always moving and changing um and resistance is one of the biggest things that you want to step away from and this is what I see in a all the time and I think we can all see this in our lives and with like their friends and our family we have people in the program that can't get it they can't get it when I talk to them about their spiritual connection whether it's like hey I believe in spirituality I believe in whenever I go into the woods something speaks to me and I feel connected with myself like I need to go Earth or I just need to meditate or I like to read books about math or I'm Buddhist or I'm Islamic I Believe In Christ like whatever it is um you need to find something God is God I believe is real and it's not you that's the most important thing right when we when we step away from like that's

[00:36:11] Kevin: Something that is said a lot in the program is like all you need to know is that God is real and it's not you that's not to put yourself down because I believe that God is in everything to an extent but it's just to say Hey you know when something great happens you don't have to say hey I did that I did that hey something external to me did it and if what you're doing the work you're putting in each and every day is building on that positivity then you're on the right track right as soon as you start saying like anything that happens is my fault like every single time like if I fall asleep for a meeting that's 100 my fault if this happened like as soon as you keep you're putting yourself on a pedestal where you're like you're God the reality is that it has to be something external to yourself so anyways that's just like yeah you thought you had all this control but in the end it's like almost the key is to let go of the control and trust that whatever just happened is exactly what's supposed to happen there's something you needed to learn there's something oh you're stuck behind this red light well

[00:37:17] Jacob: Maybe it stopped you from getting T-boned at the next light you know what I mean there's little things that I was thinking of I have this line of poetry I've written find a place to pray to something bigger than you and your stories and it's like so often we're so mean to ourselves and like you were saying with the letter grade you know we're kind of in the Western World of thinking it's like you either do good or you're bad or you're you get that big old F or you're failing and it's like you stop trying to take your letter report card at all times stop trying to judge yourself on if you're doing well enough like you said inside if you know you're trying your best like you're really just like doing the thing and you're being honest about that with yourself then I think you're being led to the water you know that's exactly it that's exactly it and that's where like the biggest thank you ever goes out to like you know any teacher anyone's ever had that goes okay I know they taught us this in like teaching school you know in the University but I'm gonna go a little bit outside of this curriculum and make somebody you

[00:38:16] Jacob: Know believe in themselves who might be having a bad day and like just because that's the real that's the good stuff right like we can we can sit around be robots and just be like oh you're failing or you're smart you're agree with this but um yeah exploring that other side of things is just so key right and uh there's so much of that there's so much of that happening and it's great right like everything we knew as a culture 50 years ago how much of it is completely different now right like I just I love I want to derail too much but I just love how you know we're beginning to explore psychedelics like I never I've never done psychedelics that I know of um one time I had something one time I had some weed lace or something and now I mean yeah I mean wheat in itself can be so certainly a psychological experience especially um Edibles are actually like five times more psychoactive than uh just smoking the THC so it's definitely you're in for an adventure but if you're not in the right set in setting you're just trying to constantly stay grit stay stay exactly who you are when the trick

[00:39:20] Kevin: To psychedelics is to let go of who you are and experience you know the god that is the Dao you know experience the everything that is actually happening and then you go oh I'm not just my body I'm not my thoughts I'm not you know I'm much more than this that's what psychedelics are kind of you know intended to open up in this it's great like I I am such a fan of all that and I'm just like why when I was doing all that did I not try any of that stuff just yeah anyways but that's that is so awesome and uh yeah well um yeah dude I just think it's incredible thank you for sharing that thank you for bringing vulnerability you know to I'm sure it's you know maybe it gets easier you know day after day year after year to like share that story but um you know if you're anything like me it's been a heck of us putting my foot in my mouth and stumbling over it and saying the wrong things and finally like you know if uh you know I'm 31 now in my sort of my sort of catalyst to you know be myself and have some sort of connection with something bigger than me

[00:40:20] Jacob: Started around the same time and it's just been a heck of a time trying to figure out what I think about it and what I mean about it and how I can find grounding now and um I think that's the gift of it is stumbling out loud and that's I think a podcast is a beautiful thing to um it's not a five minute interview you know it's not a it's not a you know you have to say the exact same right words and you have to express yourself super clearly it's like think out loud what you're kind of going through and we can resonate with that you know that's it's a beautiful thing it's so great I completely agree I've probably been on it over the last like since covet maybe five podcasts something like that and it's that every single time what is it about podcasts that you know just makes us I think is what you said right it's that it's not it's not super short you're able to dive into it and like you know if we can strip the podcast thing away okay should we just as humans be doing more of catching up with people right like it doesn't it bring you back to

[00:41:22] Kevin: Like how you should be feeling just like discussing everything and getting into everything have you um sorry to cut you off go ahead no that's awesome uh yeah I am I mean I think of you know who and what we are like whatever through whatever you process we've gotten here I'm sure there was a time where it's you know we're talking around campfires you know after we've hunted all day and uh now we're just talking on campfires and I feel like you know uh cave paintings and all this sort of stuff is storytelling is how our psychological you know um layout is is what our experience is a story it's storytelling and it's not about getting it right it's not about reading a story over here and taking your note cards and then you come over here and you say exactly because you remembered it perfectly that's not that's not real that's a mimic version of it you know um do you find that the way that you just even the things that you talk about you know as much as I would totally agree that you know when I would drink a lot um I've only been sober for a few months now but I feel like the last few years it's been like

[00:42:23] Jacob: Just a you know a beer or two um I've really kind of like really just been over it for a while but I'm still trying to like figure out exactly what it is and what's interesting this is a side rail um yeah the reason why I kind of like perked up when you first reached out to me is actually my last beer there's this place in Austin called

[00:42:40] Kevin: The Black Sheep Lodge and my last beer was there and I was sitting there and I I'm a natural introvert I love to like work on poetry and write music and stuff like at the but I like being in these loud environments sometimes we'll have headphones in and uh so one of my favorite things to do go to a dive bar write some poetry have two beers and have a meal and uh I was like it was in December actually and I was there and I was drinking the beer and I just knew this is my last beer I was like huh well this is interesting it wasn't like a mad at myself self it wasn't like oh yeah I knew this was coming here it is you know um uh oh and so my roundabout Point um would be do you find yourself like the

[00:43:23] Jacob: Person you were before like even though you have this social lubricant right we love that word of you know you have some beers and suddenly you're like open and you're just BS and you're connecting with all these people and whatever there is that and that is a beautiful thing but I find that the quality of my conversations the things that I'm talking about things really light me up inside like what is this all about you know like what is this like how have you experienced life so far and what have you learned you know in the last couple months I find way more access to enthralling conversations um when I'm not have you know just drinking and conversating um you know not to not to hate on that because they're just it is great but so your conversations before and after do you find that they're vastly different well on that on that point one thing Okay so I've got a few different groups of friends pretty much they're all they're all just friends right but like different different kind of circles but they could all be at one party and they'd all get along right but just you know a few different circles so basically my main

[00:44:25] Kevin: Circle of friends as I was drinking and diving into you know substance abuse they really distance themselves for me because you know when you're 21 it's normal maybe I don't want to put like a number on it but and then as time goes on people just kind of you know grow out of it I was like kind of growing into it you know in my mid to 20s um and they distance themselves from the end a few months into sobriety we were at my buddy's stag and um you know they said something that really inspired me they're just like hey we uh something along the lines of like we love the sober Kevin like we like accept and we love and we're like huge fans of the sober Kevin like they said that and I've known like my friends go back like when I was like two and five and like you know all you know growing growing up and some of the like the gentleman who said that for example from like 18 you know but one of my newer friends technically on paper you know but hearing that really did something to me because a huge part of all this a huge part of getting sober at the beginning

[00:45:35] Kevin: Was going to my family and this is going to relate in one second going to my family saying I have this problem I'm not like I'm not kidding and them acknowledging and saying we recognize that you have this problem and we recognize that and we support you that was huge getting sober and going okay now that I'm freaking sober and I feel like naked I'm like here okay maybe I can I'm more not alert but like you know I'm not going to lose my keys so that's cool but overall I'm like do I do I look okay am I alright and just both saying yeah you're fine the way you are and then chilling out that individual like my vibration I guess just like chilling in a part of it I will say was taking um medications uh like I teach super super small even to this day super small one called peroxetine and it's like uh um you know anxiety one it's actually technically an antidepressant but it it's supposed to almost make you like sleepy like really chill like and I have the like the most mild one it works so well um and you know part of that could be the chemical side of it right who knows

[00:46:47] Kevin: Maybe I was just born I don't I don't know or maybe if it works it works man that's great exactly so you know with regards to the conversating part of it like to be able to get to the point that was my goal when I literally went so about eight months in right when the court thing was pretty much you know ending that's when I was like okay I need tickets it was long enough or I'm like I have this anxiety issue like I was really concerned and I found this anxiety clinic and started going there and um yeah that's when I started diving into all that but um yeah the main goal that I said to my therapist was like what's you know what's your objective with all this and I just said I want to be able to stand in a circle of people not think at all about the anxiety side of it and I just want to be able to just talk and just be a positive version of myself at work and even personally and I want like that's that's my goal and today to be able to be there where I like am I going to say a hundred or a hundred times something like that no but

[00:47:57] Kevin: Like maybe the one time that I'm not it's like a tenth of what it was before or like you know one percent what so it's just way better and uh yeah I the huge part of it is what we've gone back going back to what we spoke about before is stepping out of yourself you know being a little bit naked in the sense of like all right I'm gonna try this new thing and it's not gonna be me if it goes well it's not gonna be me if it goes bad it's not gonna be me I'm just going to learn from it and I'm just going to kind of pull myself and this is literally what my therapist said if I'm in a setting where lots of people are coming at me they're asking lots of questions at once and that's a situation that we used to invoke a lot of anxiety I'm going to like pull myself out of that and slow it down pull myself out so I'm going to look at it like from the ceiling kind of from the side I'm sure look at everyone and I don't have to answer it away just because their energies like that I don't have to and then I'm gonna choose one person I'm

[00:48:56] Kevin: Just gonna start talking to one person last a question and I'm just gonna just just discuss with them you know like I just because somebody runs up to you with um a microphone and they're like hey and they start asking you questions doesn't mean you have to be at that same wavelength it's like um I'm good so anyway so with the whole you know social side of things all that combined has helped in the number one thing is just stepping out of yourself and trying other things you know okay so like if uh if therapy isn't working maybe I need to talk to my doctor maybe there's a subscription maybe if the subscriptions aren't working you should talk to a naturopath right keep trying new things it's something outside of yourself and that's where your faith which for me is what the biggest thing in life my faith um that's where that starts to grow and that's where you can realize how much you are a part of it everything else how much everything is a part of you and how the thing that's inside you that's like your soul how you can actually start to like learn from that right and like be inspired by that um and appreciate it right that was that

[00:50:09] Jacob: Was the biggest part of my journey where things really start to get better was when externally and this is why it's so important for ourselves to help other people right because we need it we need on the bad day somebody to say hey you're doing amazing if you're doing amazing like if don't lie to people but like but you know that kindness and whatnot it's so key because we need that so the more we are genuinely caring and this is where the whole social media thing of like hey let's film somebody and we're going to give them money it's like oh that's so fit like it's like I know it's just for clicks and it's for this it's for that and I love there's this one guy on Tick Tock who makes fun of it and just makes it just takes it to a whole other level and I love that but it's sad right but anyways but on but what we can do in our real lives I think is really explore that right try to step out of ourselves you know go to that meeting that you know you've been thinking about that you're kind of uncomfortable about uh go uh watch a movie um date someone if you're single date someone you

[00:51:13] Jacob: Wouldn't usually date right like just try try to step out of what you're currently doing to see things in that light um yeah and that's what really led me down that path and as I've done that I've been able to really feel inside myself who I am and the self-love part of it was the biggest thing in my first eight months of sobriety had come home sometimes just start bawling crying because I never taken care of the thing inside of me it was always like there's like a Guns and Roses song I was just like okay I've got this time off my hands are gonna sweat I'm gonna buy this buy that start consuming I had never just gone like hey it's cold outside I'm gonna bring a jacket like I always had that mentality of just like beating myself down so I could be as strong as possible in lots of different ways but there's never just like hey I'm gonna take care of this a little bit and that's just the environment I kind of grew up on it and it's my own doing too right it's

[00:52:14] Kevin: Myself but um yes as time went on I started to really look at that and um and it helps right and to this day I'm still a lot of those Character defects from six years ago from my childhood they're still there but because I'm able to step out of it and look at it and improve some of the like I don't say easy wins but some of the first initial stuff that's there I'm able to have those skills in like a bit of a skill set for life right like function to function it's really cool it's really cool because when you when you start to go down that path you start to learn so much more too right and um and it's that much more embarrassing though when you're well it's not it's not really that embarrassing because I do I do feel that I have a level of humility in life right humility is so key to like a program right um being able to laugh at yourself and just but

[00:53:07] Jacob: Um yeah but before you were probably so afraid of that embarrassment like you're like well I'll do anything to not you know feel that embarrassment that I know is available to me if I if I step out of my comfort zone exactly but over time it gets great right it's kind of fun to be like you know that self-deprivating side of it with my first so I had two therapists the first one I went to was like it did not go well it's like I think your first meeting with a therapist should be like an interview in many regard like it really is right it's like two I always think my head's like two dogs like sniffing each other in a park for the first time and that therapist was just like anyways very I don't want to Bachelor therapist but like very fixed and like hey that's self-deprivating like that's that but I think we need to be able to laugh at ourselves and be like Oh I'm like uh I'm not very great at that at all but you know but um anyways yeah I didn't that first one didn't go very well and then uh the director of the clinic was like okay I'm gonna give you to somebody else

[00:54:08] Kevin: Who's like their problem child because this therapist like rented a room sort of a thing at this amazing clinic and um and didn't get along that well with the director but was just like amazing what she did so she was like okay I'm gonna take you from like my Apprentice who like I'm making the most money off to the person that's actually gonna work for you um anyway the person in the double white Outback you know he's a therapist but he's in the trailer you know like yeah I actually just watched yesterday on the plane I just watched Goodwill Hunting have you watched that I love that movie such a fantastic movie I definitely cried a bit at the end on the plane just uh as a grown man should but um yeah that is um yeah I like you know sometimes it's like um even your own tricks can work through a therapist you know I remember when I was very young um there was that you I remember being this you know Wise little [ __ ] that I knew exactly what to say I knew the therapists counselor I knew that relationship so I knew exactly what to say like I would basically it was like

[00:55:18] Kevin: One therapy session and at the end they're like oh this kid's fine he's he's good like he's because I knew exactly what to say but inside I knew that I was like lying so I can not have to deal with this therapy thing you know and we will trick ourselves into doing that just like will does in the movie you know this first five four therapist or whatever that he goes through he like pretends to be playing the game and then he's just actually like being a smart ass and he's just you know but really there's something deep down inside that he that someone who could actually reach out to him and actually talked to the real him in there could uh you know have more access to than these other people would totally and that's like the not to be like super cliche with you know the world we're in and with like hey social media the more vulnerable you are the better your audience is like that stuff's true like at the end of the day right and it's like it's real it's almost like you know black magic it's like use it willingly like use it and you know for something decent out there and it's true

[00:56:16] Jacob: Right like be the more vulnerable you are with a therapist your relationship work anything like that's where you get to the good stuff right and I'm not saying to freaking you know show up on Monday morning you know with uh telling your boss everything about yourself but just trying to kind of implement that into everything you do I do with clients all the time right for work I show them that I'm not perfect I uh show them I have two crazy cats that sometimes need food in the middle of like an important business call that that just shows that you're human and that you're not afraid to show that you're human right and um again we don't need to go to the extreme in that of course the extreme can happen sometimes and that's where humility comes in um but yeah uh utilizing that so powerful right it's real like people say social media you know be vulnerable so your audience gets it's true it's completely true right and it's and it's actually really challenging I think once you start to do it works but I do think it actually is really challenging to do at the beginning um but the process in that is is awesome right just you know yeah

[00:57:34] Jacob: I mean I it's something that I've learned you know with this podcast I'm you know I'm pretty close to my 100th episode here I mean I technically have a few more recorded that I haven't posted but um you know it's kind of been this process of trying to make sure I'm not bullshitting myself you know sometimes I'll hear myself back I'm editing on podcasts I'm like I was just bullshitting like I wouldn't I wasn't even trying to but you know you notice it you're like cool God got to stop doing that whatever it is and it's been um you know it's been quite a few years for me but it's always been something that I try to do you know even outside of the podcast I've kind of always been uh I always want to help people always want to like serve people and you know sometimes it could accidentally come from a place of like thinking that I'm on a pedestal and like here's what I know something that's very true and you need to do what I do you know and I'm always unwinding that and I'm always learning that and I'm always trying to like humility is a great word for it I'm always like trying to trip

[00:58:25] Jacob: And fall out loud at the very least you know and like I'm never trying to if someone's like well hey you said this and then I saw you do this I'm like yeah she's totally right man yeah I had to learn that the hard way didn't I you know and um that's what I'm drawn to like when I'm listening to like spiritual lectures or I'm listening to like these um you know a podcast or um you know a live conversation that was filmed or whatever like I don't want to hear I'm an expert and I know this it's like I want to hear their personal experience and how they discovered it and what they're learning about themselves through the process and um that you know authenticity is such a such a strange word because you can't like I'm being authentic you know like there's not a you know what I mean like this you gotta really just like let yourself you know be a fool if you're being a fool and stumble through it and just try to act through honesty within yourself and that is communicated that's hard that's something that I'm really drawn to in podcasts is like someone just really they're not trying

[00:59:23] Kevin: To feed me [ __ ] they're not trying to sell me something they're not trying to say like I'm a spiritual leader and if you want to be happy you got to be like me and here's the bullet points you know whatever and uh you know they're trying to sell you their course or whatever in the in the background so um I think that I think that's I think we're really drawn to that and I think uh I agree our world needs more of it in a lot of ways totally and vulnerability I think might be the first step right just being able to be like all right I think I know this and this but let's try it and that's where you learn so much even if you are let's say you're like a thought leader you're like a business leader and it's through the process of what we just discussed right you've been vulnerable continuing to go down that path like you just keep finding more and more and more truth you know like um in construction we would always say um that the newest person on the crew is like in many ways the most important because they often will catch the things that everyone else won't catch and be

[01:00:24] Kevin: Like uh should that thing be open like that and we're like oh we were too busy thinking that we you know knew what we're doing we were being complacent right so Yeah by that's the other part of like the leadership too that I think is so Keen not to like you know say I'm a leader I mean I do believe I am a leader but like I the whole goal I think with leadership is literally being able to include everyone at the same time but also being able to be brutally honest um and that's one thing that I think with the leadership today that's lacking is that nobody ever wants to tell somebody that they're not good at something and of course that's like a horrible way to like to phrase it right but like it's always a roundabout but it's like by showing people and working with them to explore what their natural strengths are and to Just Praise them when they when they you know take risks and to praise them when they improve on something there's nothing there's nothing to a coach boss manager anyone that's better than seeing somebody who's not natural skilled to something eventually break through and be able to do it that's like the coolest thing and

[01:01:41] Kevin: That's where my take on God on religion where I really believe we are mini creators ourself like I pose this to my um therapist bow a year or two ago and I said are we all supposed to be creators like are we like I do I honestly believe in a Creator and are we supposed to be creative yourself or are we like made in the image of God and are we are we also and she's like yeah you know it's kind of a philosophical question I don't really have the answer for it you know like that's interesting but the more that life goes on there's my philosophical thought for the day is that we are we are all little mini creators and um and it's awesome you know and it's and yeah so um you know if you're if you're gonna yeah it's that plus you know the notion of like working with someone and seeing them persevere it's just it's awesome um kind of see that all play out and I've seen that play out um many times recently it's and it's great when it's yourself too right but you just when you cannot handle something and um just go down this tangent a little bit more it's the biggest thing I see

[01:03:03] Kevin: Right now alert course we'll have small business owners and many of them are a little bit older right um some are young all different ages but what I think we realize as young people with technology it's the same thing as in construction it's like we don't know everything about how something works you just kind of figure it out you just start clicking buttons you just start asking questions on this you start calling people you just kind of figured out and the more that you step into that let's say the older person who's doesn't know how to open up their email box for example like to us we would laugh at that right but it's like you literally just have to turn on the computer know what your password is that's a problem that all of us as human beings have what is our password for this there's so many different freaking passwords it's like so you know okay we all have that same problem write down your passwords or put the same one for everything and then just start figuring it out right so um start clicking around yeah sorry it's just trying right just trying um yeah I mean yeah it's a it's I feel like I'm seeing that analogy you know the

[01:04:12] Kevin: Typical we've heard it before but you know instead of looking up the whole staircase that goes into the clouds and you're like I know that's where I need to get to and you're like it's I can't like I don't have the even the leg strength to even climb up there's no way like I guess I'll sit here you know no the answer is take one step what can you do today don't you know you glance up there remember where you're going I think but you know what all right here I can take one step I don't know what I don't know my email passwords I forgot them I'm stressed out I don't have anybody I can call well what you can do is open your laptop okay you got a home page all right which is maybe I can just type email and maybe that'll pop no that didn't work okay maybe I start clicking on these things you know you're getting farther take the steps that you can take you know you can't just sit down and accept defeat and it's when you start doing that and that that in itself we can have no connection like in what we're talking we're there to like to God to anything else

[01:05:05] Kevin: That could just be faith that things are going to be okay all right A Little Bit of Faith that everything's gonna work out all right that it's all good that Faith right there can get you to the top of that staircase in time when you literally had a minute left on the clock and the more that we do that as human beings like oh geez I have five minutes this meeting I need to send this off or I need to call my mom and wish her happy birthday on her birthday she's about to have hop on a flight like in three minutes like when you start to just try a little bit you know and just test it out you realize how much the universe and just everything else helps you and um you just become empowered to do so many different things right so it's great when we start to just you know spread our wings and just try a little bit we open up that computer and throw in apples one two three and next thing we're in and I don't use that password yeah right everybody write that down that's his password for everything um yeah I mean it reminds me Lily of that part you're in a you know uh you

[01:06:11] Jacob: Know you're in a situation where a bunch of people are asking you different questions and you're overwhelmed but you kind of give that give yourself that bird's eye view all right I'm gonna answer this person right here no you can't answer everybody all at once cool accept it give yourself a little bit of faith that it's still going to be okay when you just talk to this person and then cool you answered that question all right you know Stephanie yeah I agree blah Rodney what did you say again okay yeah cool now you've just solved it you didn't have to solve it all at once you know it's I like this saying um and I feel like I say it probably way too much is uh as you as you begin to walk the path the path appears you know it's is this brick this magical brick thing and you can always see the whole path but you know you take a step and there's a brick there's a path and that's like the inverse of Steve Jobs saying you can only connect the dots like looking back backwards right it's like if you're anyways like he always says that right like if you if you achieve something

[01:07:04] Jacob: Let's say 10 years from now you achieve what your goal is right now or something close to it you can't at the beginning go I'm gonna get there this way exactly I believe in Planning by the way plan for sure but just know that the road is going to appear in front of you right as you start to walk it right so it's kind of the inverse of that one but um that's so true so true and you and then you start to like see the path you start to trust it's like oh it's lit up I like this um yeah and then when that's when you have words like you know faith and um and faith and Grace and you know sometimes I feel Kevin that these words are but they're almost locked behind um what we think what we think about religion or what we think about spirituality what we think about God or Soul or you know again with any of these words like um you know if I look at myself when I was younger I um it's not that I was like anti-any of these things but it was just like it just seemed um you know hopefully it doesn't sound offensive but it just seemed goofy to me

[01:08:06] Kevin: Like whatever that's like I did and so like even to anytime somebody said the words Faith around me I thought I knew what they were talking about they said God around me I thought I knew what they were talking about they said Soul or Spirit or any of these things I thought I knew what they were talking about in in these are profound you know their words but they spark something very us very divine within us that yes and they mean something different to everyone right so that's why it's like if your definition of faith is what you think it is based on like when you when you said that there I started to think what did I use to my definition of Faith being it's like oh it's you know a bunch of people in a church and they're all wearing like you know this type of clothes that's you know yeah you're like that's not me that's what you would think I know what it is and I'm not that you know yeah like that's crazy exactly and let's try to make let's try to explore those words and this is the thing that I've just seen so friggin much today is when I just said ex let's explore

[01:09:12] Kevin: Those words somebody go I'm exploring it and uh I didn't see anything no let's really try to explore it like like actually let's open ourselves up and try to do it and people always think not everyone but on the outside oh well I said this and this so it came off as that we can sense as human beings if someone's being genuine we can sense when somebody's nervous we can sense when somebody's being a complete a-hole to us and they're saying it in a really nice way and when you try really hard at something you genuinely try to do your best it shows even if you're crapping it it shows so I had somebody the other day they were completely in the right they had to move their vehicle I was I was helping this business and they didn't have no parking signs but there was one close to it plus I was really nice to the guy and I just asked if he could move his car up he's like hey there's no signs and he was being a complete a whole like the way he genuinely was not trying to be nice and helpful he was like hey man I'm just trying to help you and it's like

[01:10:13] Jacob: Hmm you said those words but uh yeah but it shows it shows right and that's why this is one big thing in life and in business like the positive side of it that I've taken is like I used to think if I don't get 100 on the test you know I'm a bozo or like for me it was like let's get 80 I just want to be like middle of the class like you know in the test but as time's gone on and you dig into things um I've just began to realize that like our test now is like how clients are happy you know the finished product did they were they approved for the application were they not it's a yes or no it's one of the other like oks don't really do anything right so I approach every project with the same to do my absolute best and to be honest and to do maths the best what I've realized over time is if you try really hard and I've learned this from our team too if you genuinely do your absolute best you really try and I'm not I don't want to make it sound like hey you have to stay up for five days you have to do all this

[01:11:22] Jacob: Stuff and walk up this mountain I'm not saying that I'm just saying if you actually put your best foot forward and whatever you do in life have the best podcast to be the best partner to you know you know to be honest with your community you actually try it's crazy how much that works and how people see that and how they appreciate that right it does matter inside how are you trying and like for somebody who's very results-based and like hey we need to like disco that it's an it's incredible how regardless of an individual's skill set how them just approaching that every single time how much it matters I've seen I've seen people who are the most skilled to 9 or 10 times kill it who eventually just get you know lose interest or the NH stop trying how people think oh I did the same things I've done before what do you mean it's not it's not it's not good or it's not there's you can tell when someone's actually genuinely done their best and people appreciate that right like we all we all appreciate that right like so anyways I'm just I'm just trying to communicate the inside how we feel in our approach matters more than anyone

[01:12:32] Jacob: Can imagine on the outside it shines through so much whether it's Darkness or light like it just and I don't think that we and that's like down that you know telepathic route of just like hey this is stuff you can't see prove this that like it's going down that path but it's it's so freaking true and uh so communication is communication is much deeper than mere words or you know and of course you know there's body language and vocal tonality and all these things that do play into it from a psychological level but there is we can send something real I mean it's it's really just the truth of what we are we know what's real and sometimes we can't put it into words because it's not really it's a bit beyond words in some ways we know what's real though totally and that like takes me to like the path of leadership you know and like and when I say leadership I know we all think like hey it's uh it's a big strong leader you know whatever gender whatever is another one of those words like God and spirituality we kind of have a exactly with leadership we think like hey someone's strong like and maybe somebody else's Day Clinic could be

[01:13:35] Jacob: Completely different right maybe they had some amazing leaders growing up and it was different but regardless the leadership thing it's like I watch a lot on like business um because I think business is so translatable to everything else in life um like the challenge is and just putting yourself out there and finding your own truth in many different cards um excuse me um and people a lot of different people on different podcasts different you know um speeches they talk about how if you do something and if you start moving towards it and if you're leading and you're just you're taking it to where you need to go people will just instinctively follow you because they can tell because first of all that's actually really rare when somebody's like anyone can say hey I'm going to open up this business this and that and they can start to do different things it's a whole other thing to say I'm gonna open this restaurant and it's going to change the way that people meet for coffee okay it's gonna like this is gonna be something I've had this in my dreams I've spoke to business coaches about this Consultants I've like I've refined this this is going to change the way we meet in person for coffee

[01:14:44] Jacob: Totally hypothetical but I'm just giving you an example right like if you start to do that and build that people instinctively that are supposed to be there will know it's real right and follow it and the guy who's absolute Looney Tunes like somebody who's like just making it up might attract people who want to be attracted to like that really negative situation right there might be some people who either do actually have some mental challenges and God bless them if they were being duped in by some horrible individual in that instance but we follow the truth right it's like the wind we how can I how can I prove to you the wind is real you know um you know now that I'm thinking about it we can maybe put something up and see that it not gets knocked over right but outside of that it's not it's not a color a lot of the time right but we know it's real it's the same thing with um that leadership with god with faith if sense it be intuitive start to build it and it's like a muscle right it'll just start working and you'll just start to find your own truth and all that and that's really just to kind of

[01:15:50] Kevin: Finish things off that's my take on the Jesus thing I know it offends a lot of people and it's probably the most persecute religion that there is out there right now like we talk a lot about islamophobia which I don't believe you should be horrible to any religion or to any group of people as long as they're you know doing their best to be positive uh members of you know Humanity but um you know I've found my I own truth in Jesus I Think Jesus was the son of God it sounds crazy doesn't it like it sounds so crazy but as you dig into it and as you feel it I personally I can feel it like I and that's just my own belief right because when I turn myself over to that I'm LED it's like the conduit to God into the holy spirit it's through Jesus and that's just my own take right like that's my own but I can literally feel that and I also see people who reject it so much and also see people who like how many times when you see a professional athlete or anyone you know receive an award how many times do they stop and they say thank you God you know or thank you and

[01:17:00] Kevin: Like why is that you know like who knows that I mean I believe that um a big part of his faith turning yourself over to something else that will help guide you and that's just one thing I wish for like the whole audience and anyone who's watched at this point and then you know the podcast is like start building your own and if you do have your own keep exploring it right and like um you know God is real and it's and it's not you know and it's not to downplay any person I think that everyone is special that's the biggest thing in like sports teams and parents that like that I've always loved is like the parent who believes in the kid that's not even theirs and one thing like when I was I was 16 I was going to the soccer tournament I played with this team for years and I was on this drive and uh this friend of my dad my friend was sleeping his dad was driving and he said you know your mom did a really good job with you like growing up and just said like you're a great you're a great kid and this is my last tournament

[01:18:02] Kevin: Because I was gonna play rugby after that um try to go try to go pro on that and he really meant it and that like it's crazy how much that means to certain people you know and to everyone right to have somebody who's like you know every parent wants to probably put their kid first and like you know it just show that unconditional love and whatnot for other things and just that just shows really what we should be and we're all interconnected right me doing something horrible to one person in fact somebody else and this and that and it's it's just incredible when uh when people you know practice that so yeah a beautiful thing I mean it's pretty profound that you even have it to this day you have that memory of this thing that you know to be important to you of just him you know maybe he didn't even think about it profoundly maybe he maybe he just was communicating from his truth of like you know what your mom did good and uh you know you're doing all right in this sort of thing I feel like I have my own in my own versions of the same thing I've um you know in areas where my

[01:19:01] Kevin: Parents didn't say certain things I can definitely pinpoint you know three grown men older adults in my life that would tell me things that like would snap me out of my you know being a little [ __ ] you know and I would and I'm like oh okay all right I'm gonna believe that and I remember those to this day and it's a beautiful thing so even today even today tomorrow like we can still say those things and we shouldn't go around making stuff up and doing this and that but if we can honestly talk to people and try to inspire them through just being yourselves and like pointing out like hey that was incredible like that was whatever you did right there that was incredible what was that and you know or being honest with Bill hey that could have been better you know just trying to be genuine and honest with people it's incredible how much a that comes back to you and B how that can help people in today right like look at what you just said some grown men even the last few years you know maybe validated things that you need to validated when you're younger and that's it's nothing against your family something is my family

[01:20:00] Kevin: That's one of the biggest things when I was going through therapy I was like this is nothing it's my family I love and they're like no we get that we get that so my mom beat me when I was uh four Right no just kidding

[01:20:09] Jacob: Yeah I mean our parents are just on their own path as well you know we're all just we're all just together on this journey we're all just you know again Ram Dass like I've mentioned he says we're all just walking each other home and it really is that you know there's this current that's going through and we're all maybe not aware how our interactions are affecting each other and like very deeply profound ways but when we're acting from truth I think that we're all falling back into that current you know we're not trying to go against the river and go against the current that's forcing against us it's lifting your legs up and just I'm going to say that you know I'm you know what you did good job kid you know or you know what I see better than you and and uh you know I had teachers I had a

[01:20:48] Kevin: Principal who pulled me to the side um after I like had just I just I basically smoked a bunch of weed and then I went to the school dance and he didn't get me in trouble but he pulled me to the side and basically told me like hey I don't know if you notice or not but uh people listen to you're a leader and now like you know at the time I'm like okay bro like you know cool and to this day to this day I notice when I'm rambling on people are listening to me and so I should take responsibility and that's you know I think that's what a leader should do

[01:21:14] Jacob: Um Kevin we are getting up here right in time I would I would love to um just just very quickly can you tell people where to find your business where to find your website where to find more on

[01:21:23] Kevin: You all of this for sure our website is bsbcon.com that stands for Black Sheep Business Consulting um I love chatting with people I love you know just general discussion so I'm really accessible I always try to be I always tell people if you want to get a hold of me call me because I was answering my phone or I was calling people back emails I can let those get push down uh you know uh but you can contact me by email too but yeah um you know we write business plans I in the next minute or two I'm gonna go into this other call with this very nice gentleman uh looking for a business plan and yeah I'm just uh I wanna I Wanna Be You know the there's a guy from The Matrix I want to be Morpheus no uh I forget his name he's a Canadian actor but he's just a real like down to earth um individual right and like that's I want to be in a point where I can make change where I can be successful at the same time um I want to be somebody who's just as normal as you could be because that's how I feel like you know what I meant to do and to

[01:22:35] Kevin: Just do my best and make mistakes on the public stage you know like that's where I really want to go and anything I can do to help other people I want to try to try to do um so yeah thanks so much for your time today it was a great time being on the show and um you're doing a great thing

[01:22:35] Jacob: Awesome yeah thank you brother I appreciate you saying it um Yeah we'll be in touch I would love to pick your pick your brain about um you know my own business and my own my own kind of plans here so um yeah I would love to set that up and uh maybe we should hop on a phone call so I don't uh text or email you but yeah if you have time the next few days um you know I would love to uh I would love to coordinate that man I'd love to chat with you about that sweet dude let's do it for sure thank you so much man it was great talking to you dude I'm excited to see it I know it might take weeks or months so you actually post it but that'd be cool awesome yeah we'll see I think I'm gonna post this one a bit sooner all right cool all right thanks so much man have a good day

[01:23:28] Kevin: Thanks Jake thank you take care brother

[01:23:30] Outro: Listeners love yourselves peace out